The state of UK politics

HugalHugal Shipmate
As per hostly suggestion, here is a new thread on UK politics. What is the government up to? Who is the real opposition? Why are Reform getting so much promotion?
Anything about UK politics is welcome.
I will start. Should Westminster ignore voices like Musk or Trump?

Comments

  • SpikeSpike Ecclesiantics & MW Host, Admin Emeritus
    I don’t understand why Farage gets such a disproportionate amount of media coverage. His party has 5 MPs, only one more than the Green Party and significantly fewer than the Lib Dems 72 MPs, yet the Green and Lib Dem leaders don’t get anything like the coverage that he does
  • Because most of the print media is right wing?
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    He always gets what looks like disproportionate coverage on the BBC. Although in terms of what the people actually want, it isn't. And the right wing print and social media reflect the people too. The forest welcomes the axe.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Spike wrote: »
    I don’t understand why Farage gets such a disproportionate amount of media coverage. His party has 5 MPs, only one more than the Green Party and significantly fewer than the Lib Dems 72 MPs, yet the Green and Lib Dem leaders don’t get anything like the coverage that he does
    Only 5 seats but 4,117,610 votes, More than any other party apart from Labour and Conservative
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Spike wrote: »
    I don’t understand why Farage gets such a disproportionate amount of media coverage. His party has 5 MPs, only one more than the Green Party and significantly fewer than the Lib Dems 72 MPs, yet the Green and Lib Dem leaders don’t get anything like the coverage that he does

    Well, in fairness, who would you say gets mentioned more often here on the Ship? Farage, or the Green Party leaders?
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    Spike wrote: »
    I don’t understand why Farage gets such a disproportionate amount of media coverage. His party has 5 MPs, only one more than the Green Party and significantly fewer than the Lib Dems 72 MPs, yet the Green and Lib Dem leaders don’t get anything like the coverage that he does

    Well, in fairness, who would you say gets mentioned more often here on the Ship? Farage, or the Green Party leaders?

    Farage, but only because he's not popular
  • Telford wrote: »
    Spike wrote: »
    I don’t understand why Farage gets such a disproportionate amount of media coverage. His party has 5 MPs, only one more than the Green Party and significantly fewer than the Lib Dems 72 MPs, yet the Green and Lib Dem leaders don’t get anything like the coverage that he does
    Only 5 seats but 4,117,610 votes, More than any other party apart from Labour and Conservative

    Bingo.

    Also, they're a threat to the established order in a way the Greens and Lib Dems just aren't. Nothing sells papers/gets clicks like a viable threat to the established order.

    Furthermore, they are the British manifestation of a seemingly global trend (in the democracies, anyway) towards populist right wing parties and politics - part of an apparent sea change in popular political sentiment that may well be unrivalled in living memory and could dramatically change the political landscape for decades to come. Again, nobody could say that of the Greens and Lib Dems with anything like a straight face.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    Spike wrote: »
    I don’t understand why Farage gets such a disproportionate amount of media coverage. His party has 5 MPs, only one more than the Green Party and significantly fewer than the Lib Dems 72 MPs, yet the Green and Lib Dem leaders don’t get anything like the coverage that he does

    Well, in fairness, who would you say gets mentioned more often here on the Ship? Farage, or the Green Party leaders?

    Farage, but only because he's not popular

    That's kinda my point. Seemingly disproportionate media-attention to Farage might be justified on the grounds that he provokes a lot of controversy.

    (And, yes, I realize there's a chicken/egg question here: maybe he's only able to provoke controversy because the media gives him attention in the first place. Though I suspect most progressives would be happy with him getting a lot of media attention, IF they thought it was turning people against him.)
  • I noticed that Jenrick is making increasingly racist remarks, and then it dawned on me, he wants to be leader. This is the race to the bottom in the Tory Party.
  • Telford wrote: »
    Spike wrote: »
    I don’t understand why Farage gets such a disproportionate amount of media coverage. His party has 5 MPs, only one more than the Green Party and significantly fewer than the Lib Dems 72 MPs, yet the Green and Lib Dem leaders don’t get anything like the coverage that he does
    Only 5 seats but 4,117,610 votes, More than any other party apart from Labour and Conservative

    Bingo.

    The coverage of Farage et al predates that level of popular support.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    I noticed that Jenrick is making increasingly racist remarks, and then it dawned on me, he wants to be leader. This is the race to the bottom in the Tory Party.

    What has he said that is racist ?
  • My wife asked me what I would do if fascism takes over in England. Obviously, I would keep my head down, I'm not a hero, and I don't want to fight on the barricades. All good!
  • Telford wrote: »
    I noticed that Jenrick is making increasingly racist remarks, and then it dawned on me, he wants to be leader. This is the race to the bottom in the Tory Party.

    What has he said that is racist ?

    The whole discussion of grooming gangs is racist, in varying degrees. Jenrick is ratcheting it up, no doubt for his own career.
  • Well, my wife snorted when Jenrick referred to alien cultures, yes, the people at Ascot.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    But there is a grooming problem. The right wing, of course, are trying to use it to smear Starmer.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Hugal wrote: »
    ... I will start. Should Westminster ignore voices like Musk or Trump?
    Yes.

  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    There is indeed a grooming problem. There was a national enquiry about it that reported in 2022. The new government is now trying to implement some of its recommendations, instead of kicking the can down the road and commissioning yet another national enquiry which will delay justice for the victims yet again.

    Guess which course of action the paedophiles would prefer?
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    Enoch wrote: »
    Hugal wrote: »
    ... I will start. Should Westminster ignore voices like Musk or Trump?
    Yes.

    Directly, yes. But the populist right fascists are winning globally, including here in the UK; Badenoch, Jenrick, Farage.
  • Jane R wrote: »
    There is indeed a grooming problem. There was a national enquiry about it that reported in 2022. The new government is now trying to implement some of its recommendations, instead of kicking the can down the road and commissioning yet another national enquiry which will delay justice for the victims yet again.

    Guess which course of action the paedophiles would prefer?

    Good summary. I would add that the right wing are trying to turn it into a race war. How successful that will be with the great British public, I don't know.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Jane R wrote: »
    There is indeed a grooming problem. There was a national enquiry about it that reported in 2022. The new government is now trying to implement some of its recommendations, instead of kicking the can down the road and commissioning yet another national enquiry which will delay justice for the victims yet again.

    Guess which course of action the paedophiles would prefer?

    Good summary. I would add that the right wing are trying to turn it into a race war. How successful that will be with the great British public, I don't know.

    They have been since the beginning. The Right Wing version is "Lefty Councils Let Muslims Rape White Girls Because They Don't Want To Upset Muslims."

    Muslim of course code for South Asian.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    History and experience teach us that wherever and whenever any discrete group of youngish men is transplanted to an alien environment without female company of their own, problems will arise. The British military in India knew this, and made suitable arrangements, despite moralistic protests. Unfortunately, knowledge of historic precedent is increasingly rare these days.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Eirenist wrote: »
    History and experience teach us that wherever and whenever any discrete group of youngish men is transplanted to an alien environment without female company of their own, problems will arise. The British military in India knew this, and made suitable arrangements, despite moralistic protests. Unfortunately, knowledge of historic precedent is increasingly rare these days.

    Except most of the young men involved were born in Britain, they've not been "transplanted" anywhere, and presumably are as capable as the next man of seeking hookups with adults on Tindr. Instead they decided to rape kids.
  • This also ignores white paedophiles. It foregrounds race again.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited January 8
    Eirenist wrote: »
    History and experience teach us that wherever and whenever any discrete group of youngish men is transplanted to an alien environment without female company of their own, problems will arise. The British military in India knew this, and made suitable arrangements, despite moralistic protests. Unfortunately, knowledge of historic precedent is increasingly rare these days.

    Except most of the young men involved were born in Britain, they've not been "transplanted" anywhere, and presumably are as capable as the next man of seeking hookups with adults on Tindr. Instead they decided to rape kids.

    I should point out that the report published in November on grooming gangs specifically does contain an ethnicity breakdown (p17), and that of the offenders is largely in line with proportions of the population:

    https://www.hydrantprogramme.co.uk/assets/Documents/CSE-Taskforce-Group-Based-Offending-Publication-November-2024.pdf
  • The right wing want to show that Pakistani men, or of Pakistani heritage, are peculiarly prone to sexual abuse of girls, and white girls to boot. I wonder how they view white men who abuse girls? There is also the issue of cover ups, that people turned a blind eye, for fear of seeming racist. But blind eyes have been turned to child abuse in many areas of life, e.g., churches.
  • I meant to say that child abuse has historically always been covered up.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited January 8
    I meant to say that child abuse has historically always been covered up.

    Well, yes. And in the case of the specific practices we are talking about; Nick Davies wrote Dark Heart in the 90s, and it sunk without much of a trace.

    Teenage girls being picked up from school by their much older 'boyfriends' was enough of a cultural phenomena to have made it into light entertainment ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita,_Sue_and_Bob_Too )

    And of course the practices of radio DJs and rock stars has been well documented, and the specific reaction some of Saville's victims received has many similarities in the cases referenced above.
  • There's also child abuse in the home, again often hidden away. I thought that most abuse occurs there, but I would have to check NSPCC stats.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    Hostly beret on

    The enquiry into child abuse is an Epiphanies topic. If you want to keep discussing it, please start a new thread over there.

    Hostly beret off

    la vie en rouge, Purgatory host
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Well, my wife snorted when Jenrick referred to alien cultures, yes, the people at Ascot.

    What does "Ascot" refer to here?
  • stetson wrote: »
    Well, my wife snorted when Jenrick referred to alien cultures, yes, the people at Ascot.

    What does "Ascot" refer to here?

    Royal Ascot races.
  • Leorning CnihtLeorning Cniht Shipmate
    edited January 8
    stetson wrote: »
    Well, my wife snorted when Jenrick referred to alien cultures, yes, the people at Ascot.

    What does "Ascot" refer to here?

    Here's a guide to the "alien culture" in question:

    https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celebrity/latest/g61191876/all-the-photos-2024-royal-ascot/

    (changed link, because there was a paywall)
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    Hugal wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    It doesn't matter what he does.

    He's out in 4 years.

    The £ & borrowing costs.

    Unless as he insists that the reward is on its way. I agree that Labour went on and on about how bad the Cons were but Labour were right. They are still trying to pull us out of the mire. I may not agree with some of the way they are doing it but they are trying. Right back to your regularly scheduled thread.

    I fully endorse Reeve's and Starmer's budget, but they will not be forgiven. Utilitarian economics are not in the Overton Window in the UK & US, or anywhere in Europe as far as I'm aware. Immigration is key everywhere, but nowhere has the infrastructure; housing on up (schools, hospitals).
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