Surely, by now, anyone with liberal views is giving up X, (twitter), I'm not sure about fb and other social media. Even if you don't live in the US, the fightback begins now against this neofascist regime.
Surely, by now, anyone with liberal views is giving up X, (twitter), I'm not sure about fb and other social media. Even if you don't live in the US, the fightback begins now against this neofascist regime.
I've been itching to leave facebook, but I've decided it's the godawful bar that too many of my friends frequent and I like seeing my friends socially.
I actually started a thread in Purg on the question of what we should expect from it now that the leadership seems to be getting more explicitly ugly, assuming we're not going to leave.
Surely, by now, anyone with liberal views is giving up X, (twitter), I'm not sure about fb and other social media. Even if you don't live in the US, the fightback begins now against this neofascist regime.
I've been itching to leave facebook, but I've decided it's the godawful bar that too many of my friends frequent and I like seeing my friends socially.
Surely, by now, anyone with liberal views is giving up X, (twitter), I'm not sure about fb and other social media. Even if you don't live in the US, the fightback begins now against this neofascist regime.
Do you really think giving up posting on Xitter is actually a meaningful form of fightback against the Trump government?
Surely, by now, anyone with liberal views is giving up X, (twitter), I'm not sure about fb and other social media. Even if you don't live in the US, the fightback begins now against this neofascist regime.
Do you really think giving up posting on Xitter is actually a meaningful form of fightback against the Trump government?
I don't think people think it is. Getting out of a pool full of floating turds doesn't clean the pool up but you're not swimming in turds any more.
Surely, by now, anyone with liberal views is giving up X, (twitter), I'm not sure about fb and other social media. Even if you don't live in the US, the fightback begins now against this neofascist regime.
Do you really think giving up posting on Xitter is actually a meaningful form of fightback against the Trump government?
I don't think people think it is.
It’s what quetzalcoatl just said.
Getting out of a pool full of floating turds doesn't clean the pool up but you're not swimming in turds any more.
I’m sure they’d describe your views in similarly glowing terms.
For my part, I stopped posting on Twitter back when it was still Twitter. I’m not sure which regime I can count that as fighting against, but I can’t say I’ve missed it much.
I left X and I am not American. People are leaving because as @KarlLB said it is not a good place to be, not to get at Trump. That is more of a side issue.
Not really, no. But given that I'm on record here as saying that nobody - not even Hitler himself - is or was entirely evil and utterly without any good whatsoever, that should hardly be a surprise.
I seek to understand people, not condemn them. Is that a problem?
Not really, no. But given that I'm on record here as saying that nobody - not even Hitler himself - is or was entirely evil and utterly without any good whatsoever, that should hardly be a surprise.
I seek to understand people, not condemn them. Is that a problem?
No problem with trying to understand people. But what you're doing here is just sneering at people criticising Nazis.
Not really, no. But given that I'm on record here as saying that nobody - not even Hitler himself - is or was entirely evil and utterly without any good whatsoever, that should hardly be a surprise.
I seek to understand people, not condemn them. Is that a problem?
No problem with trying to understand people. But what you're doing here is just sneering at people criticising Nazis.
Quite. I would hope there's a qualitative difference between my rating Nazi opinions as turds and the opinions I hold that Nazis consider turdy. It's not like an argument over the essentialness of Guanciale in Carbonara or which of Iron Maiden's albums is the best
Not really, no. But given that I'm on record here as saying that nobody - not even Hitler himself - is or was entirely evil and utterly without any good whatsoever, that should hardly be a surprise.
I seek to understand people, not condemn them. Is that a problem?
No problem with trying to understand people. But what you're doing here is just sneering at people criticising Nazis.
People who think leaving Xitter is a legitimate way to fight back against Trump etc, you mean. In point of fact you're the first person on this thread to mention Nazis, and far more of the posts about leaving Xitter have been of the "I don't want to be associated with anything to do with Elon Musk" variety than the "it's full of turds" variety.
Besides, it was always full of turds, fuckwits, trolls, and people who think they're way more important and/or infallible than they are.
Not really, no. But given that I'm on record here as saying that nobody - not even Hitler himself - is or was entirely evil and utterly without any good whatsoever, that should hardly be a surprise.
I seek to understand people, not condemn them. Is that a problem?
No problem with trying to understand people. But what you're doing here is just sneering at people criticising Nazis.
Quite. I would hope there's a qualitative difference between my rating Nazi opinions as turds and the opinions I hold that Nazis consider turdy. It's not like an argument over the essentialness of Guanciale in Carbonara or which of Iron Maiden's albums is the best
Yes it is. Political (and religious, for that matter) opinions are just as subjective as opinions about food or music. Most of the problems in the world are caused by people who think their own opinions should - no, must - be shared by everyone else.
Not really, no. But given that I'm on record here as saying that nobody - not even Hitler himself - is or was entirely evil and utterly without any good whatsoever, that should hardly be a surprise.
I seek to understand people, not condemn them. Is that a problem?
No problem with trying to understand people. But what you're doing here is just sneering at people criticising Nazis.
People who think leaving Xitter is a legitimate way to fight back against Trump etc, you mean. In point of fact you're the first person on this thread to mention Nazis, and far more of the posts about leaving Xitter have been of the "I don't want to be associated with anything to do with Elon Musk" variety than the "it's full of turds" variety.
Besides, it was always full of turds, fuckwits, trolls, and people who think they're way more important and/or infallible than they are.
Elon Musk is a Nazi, and the turds in question are too. Twitter always had a stupid and/or nasty side, but Xitter is now almost entirely that, and Musk has taken steps to deliberately promote and enable the worst offenders.
I've been itching to leave facebook, but I've decided it's the godawful bar that too many of my friends frequent and I like seeing my friends socially.
For me, the "value" in facebook has always been that "everyone" has it, and I get to see occasional photos from friends I don't see regularly in person, and get to think of them fondly when I read that their kid just passed a driving test, or they met up with their family, or whatever else.
I have negative interest in any "influencers" - some overly-made-up hypemonkey going on about something is more likely to convince me that the thing in question isn't any good, because it can't sell itself on its own merits.
Based on what, making an arm gesture that bears passing resemblance to the Nazi salute? By that token half the charismatics in my church are Nazis as well. Holding right-wing views? That makes him a Nazi in exactly the same way holding left-wing views makes someone a Communist.
Musk is the annoying type of self-aggrandising dickhead who thinks that being very intelligent in a certain area makes him better than everyone else and an expert on everything, and he's into politics right now for the same reason every other business leader is into politics - to get government to stop getting in the way of his business making money. That's what all this "Government Efficiency" thing he's going to run will be about - getting rid of all those inspectors and regulators with the paper-thin excuse of saving taxpayer money.
@Marvin the Martian : "[...] he's into politics right now for the same reason every other business leader is into politics - to get government to stop getting in the way of his business making money. [...]
I think some folks don't understand how - if you really work to understand them - that base motivation does describe the Nazis rather well.
That's all it ever was, just a bunch of rich people trying to get richer at any and all costs. All the bloodshed was just collateral damage. The antisemitism was just a convenient way to keep hate directed away from their mass-theft.
I think if you want to humanize the evils of the third reich, what you describe in Elon Musk is the selfsame impulse that drove the bulk of the Nazi Party. They were just greedy, ambitious, and full of themselves, convinced they could just take whatever they wanted and let nothing get in their way, including the government. Or the truth.
So, yes. That's what comes of "understanding" evil political movements. They're human. And we should all work our tails off not to end up like them.
Based on what, making an arm gesture that bears passing resemblance to the Nazi salute? By that token half the charismatics in my church are Nazis as well. Holding right-wing views? That makes him a Nazi in exactly the same way holding left-wing views makes someone a Communist.
He's endorsed the AfD and wee Tommy two names, as well as anti-semitic conspiracy theories. That's way beyond bog standard right wing fuckery and well into Nazi territory even before you get to the blatant sieg heils.
Not really, no. But given that I'm on record here as saying that nobody - not even Hitler himself - is or was entirely evil and utterly without any good whatsoever, that should hardly be a surprise.
I seek to understand people, not condemn them. Is that a problem?
No problem with trying to understand people. But what you're doing here is just sneering at people criticising Nazis.
Quite. I would hope there's a qualitative difference between my rating Nazi opinions as turds and the opinions I hold that Nazis consider turdy. It's not like an argument over the essentialness of Guanciale in Carbonara or which of Iron Maiden's albums is the best
Yes it is. Political (and religious, for that matter) opinions are just as subjective as opinions about food or music. Most of the problems in the world are caused by people who think their own opinions should - no, must - be shared by everyone else.
You really think there's no difference in kind between preferences in music, and preferences in committing mass murder or not doing so?
Really? Fuck me!
I'm pretty sure the world would have a lot fewer problems if the opinion that genocide is bad was universally shared.
But again, fuck me. You think you know people and they say something like this.
Ironically, this is a public post, so I don't think you need a facebook account to read it, thankfully. And I wouldn't ordinarily send people there, but the essay is too long to copy here and it's apparently a personal take from another billionaire bro who seems to have been buddies with Elon back in the day.
I think the piece has some truly fine nuances on Elon's approach to fascism.
Personally, I think if you start carrying around the accoutrements of fascism for fame and glory or for the lulz or to look cool, whatever, it doesn't matter. You're a fascist. Fascism is like a demon that gets into your head as soon as you let it in and makes you think you're using it. Contra the author, I'm comfortable saying this makes Musk a fascist, at least, if not a neo nazi.
But the whole piece is rather stunning in its detail and intimacy. It feels legit, and is well worth a read. I'm impressed by the humanity of it all.
Based on what, making an arm gesture that bears passing resemblance to the Nazi salute?
Tell you what Marvin, film yourself making the arm gesture, post it on Linkedin, tag in the institution you work at, and let us know how it goes for you.
Based on what, making an arm gesture that bears passing resemblance to the Nazi salute? By that token half the charismatics in my church are Nazis as well. Holding right-wing views? That makes him a Nazi in exactly the same way holding left-wing views makes someone a Communist.
He's endorsed the AfD and wee Tommy two names, as well as anti-semitic conspiracy theories. That's way beyond bog standard right wing fuckery and well into Nazi territory even before you get to the blatant sieg heils.
.. followed up by a reference to the 14 words, now I suspect the man was trying to be edgy, but ironic X is still X.
I’ve not cancelled my accounts - just in case - but deleted the apps. Effectively locking myself out as trying to access via Windows is a total faff. Job done I suppose.
I checked out a couple of months ago. Staying in and arguing against MAGA nonsense using facts was, I discovered, a waste of time. And I got insulted more than once for not being a US citizen and having the temerity to have an opinion.
I checked out a couple of months ago. Staying in and arguing against MAGA nonsense using facts was, I discovered, a waste of time. And I got insulted more than once for not being a US citizen and having the temerity to have an opinion.
Yeah. I started some arguments on a facebook page from where I grew up and realized I was dealing with folks who saw themselves as enemy combatants rather than debate partners, and at that point...blockity blockity block. I'm rapidly shifting to just tuning people out of they seem even slightly disingenuous, which sadly describes most Trump fans I've encountered online.
To be fair, there's probably a selection bias on political fora for partisanship, but it's getting repulsive. There's no gain in such conversation.
I'd leave FB altogether but I still find meaningful connections there, and some folks who seem to appreciate my presence.
I'd leave FB altogether but I still find meaningful connections there, and some folks who seem to appreciate my presence.
I'm one who is very glad you are there on FB. When I couldn't access the Ship, it was comforting to know that I could contact Shipmates who are also on FB.
I've never been tempted y Twitter/X at all to be honest from what I've heard of it. I have a FB account but heavily edited as it's my page and I decide to whom I deign to give an audience. A lot of it is really just hobbies - classical music astronomy and church, particularly the latter as it is handy to keep in touch with people if i'm not always there
I do know of people who have left Twitter/X for Bluesky and apparently it;s pleasanter but really I've little interest in it
I'm not sure how useful these applications really are
I'm also rather fussy about accepting 'friend' requests. If I don't know the person they don't get approved.......So there!!!
I'm also rather fussy about accepting 'friend' requests. If I don't know the person they don't get approved.......So there!!!
That really isn't a bad policy. I used to be more promiscuous, but I think that as I've gotten older and the world has gotten meaner, I've gotten more guarded again.
Funny thing, I was just reading this book and one thing they talked about is how facebook, unlike most every other traditional online forum or network, broke a wall by tying people IRL identity directly to their internet identity, which is not something that happened much prior and - I think - has been less prominent since. And that might have been a bad idea.
Like, I remember back in the day when it was a novelty to find your high school friends and catch up with them, but now, a decade and more later, the novelty has worn off and these friends are either absentee, annoyance (just blocked one for the first time) or have developed into a relationship completely different than the one we had in high school such that high school seems frankly irrelevant.
And honestly, I do not want to be remembered for the half baked blob I was in high school. I really don't like that guy anymore. I'm amazed anyone put up with him.
The confluence of IRL with internet socialization is one thing that makes facebook dangerous, I think, moreso than this place or bluesky. It's all too exposed, and it's easy to forget that.
Ive never felt the need to go on Twitter, so I never joined.
I am in several specialised and heavily moderated FB groups - Church Musicians, Liturgy, motorbikes, photography mainly, that have interesting and useful discussions and information. They are very active and have very knowledgable contributors. So I focus on them. Its a resource that isn't to be found in other places.
Ive never felt the need to go on Twitter, so I never joined.
I am in several specialised and heavily moderated FB groups - Church Musicians, Liturgy, motorbikes, photography mainly, that have interesting and useful discussions and information. They are very active and have very knowledgable contributors. So I focus on them. Its a resource that isn't to be found in other places.
Exactly, I use Facebook to keep up with family/friends, and for folk rock, railway preservation and railway modelling - all skew to a Facebook demographic, and for modelling in particular Facebook is an awesome resource that just doesn’t exist *anywhere* else in the same way (and believe me I’ve looked REALLY hard for an alternative, RMweb is good, and I’m a member of that - bit like SoF but for railway modelling - but it’s the photographs, videos and speed of response to requests for help that are unmatched off Facebook IME).
Ive never felt the need to go on Twitter, so I never joined.
I am in several specialised and heavily moderated FB groups - Church Musicians, Liturgy, motorbikes, photography mainly, that have interesting and useful discussions and information. They are very active and have very knowledgable contributors. So I focus on them. Its a resource that isn't to be found in other places.
Exactly, I use Facebook to keep up with family/friends, and for folk rock, railway preservation and railway modelling - all skew to a Facebook demographic, and for modelling in particular Facebook is an awesome resource that just doesn’t exist *anywhere* else in the same way (and believe me I’ve looked REALLY hard for an alternative, RMweb is good, and I’m a member of that - bit like SoF but for railway modelling - but it’s the photographs, videos and speed of response to requests for help that are unmatched off Facebook IME).
Family are on WhatsApp, but I am still in touch with former colleagues and pupils on FB even though I have been retired for 15 years. And that's rather lovely.
Most environments contain arseholes, that doesn't mean you have be on to be there. And the speed and number of responses on FB groups is unmatched.
Comments
I've been itching to leave facebook, but I've decided it's the godawful bar that too many of my friends frequent and I like seeing my friends socially.
I actually started a thread in Purg on the question of what we should expect from it now that the leadership seems to be getting more explicitly ugly, assuming we're not going to leave.
Same here!
This, for now.
Do you really think giving up posting on Xitter is actually a meaningful form of fightback against the Trump government?
I don't think people think it is. Getting out of a pool full of floating turds doesn't clean the pool up but you're not swimming in turds any more.
It’s what quetzalcoatl just said.
I’m sure they’d describe your views in similarly glowing terms.
For my part, I stopped posting on Twitter back when it was still Twitter. I’m not sure which regime I can count that as fighting against, but I can’t say I’ve missed it much.
I thought you might quit the both-sidesism when faced with actual sig heiling Nazis but apparently not. Comfortable fence post, is it?
I seek to understand people, not condemn them. Is that a problem?
No problem with trying to understand people. But what you're doing here is just sneering at people criticising Nazis.
Quite. I would hope there's a qualitative difference between my rating Nazi opinions as turds and the opinions I hold that Nazis consider turdy. It's not like an argument over the essentialness of Guanciale in Carbonara or which of Iron Maiden's albums is the best
People who think leaving Xitter is a legitimate way to fight back against Trump etc, you mean. In point of fact you're the first person on this thread to mention Nazis, and far more of the posts about leaving Xitter have been of the "I don't want to be associated with anything to do with Elon Musk" variety than the "it's full of turds" variety.
Besides, it was always full of turds, fuckwits, trolls, and people who think they're way more important and/or infallible than they are.
Yes it is. Political (and religious, for that matter) opinions are just as subjective as opinions about food or music. Most of the problems in the world are caused by people who think their own opinions should - no, must - be shared by everyone else.
Elon Musk is a Nazi, and the turds in question are too. Twitter always had a stupid and/or nasty side, but Xitter is now almost entirely that, and Musk has taken steps to deliberately promote and enable the worst offenders.
For me, the "value" in facebook has always been that "everyone" has it, and I get to see occasional photos from friends I don't see regularly in person, and get to think of them fondly when I read that their kid just passed a driving test, or they met up with their family, or whatever else.
I have negative interest in any "influencers" - some overly-made-up hypemonkey going on about something is more likely to convince me that the thing in question isn't any good, because it can't sell itself on its own merits.
Based on what, making an arm gesture that bears passing resemblance to the Nazi salute? By that token half the charismatics in my church are Nazis as well. Holding right-wing views? That makes him a Nazi in exactly the same way holding left-wing views makes someone a Communist.
Musk is the annoying type of self-aggrandising dickhead who thinks that being very intelligent in a certain area makes him better than everyone else and an expert on everything, and he's into politics right now for the same reason every other business leader is into politics - to get government to stop getting in the way of his business making money. That's what all this "Government Efficiency" thing he's going to run will be about - getting rid of all those inspectors and regulators with the paper-thin excuse of saving taxpayer money.
That's all it ever was, just a bunch of rich people trying to get richer at any and all costs. All the bloodshed was just collateral damage. The antisemitism was just a convenient way to keep hate directed away from their mass-theft.
I think if you want to humanize the evils of the third reich, what you describe in Elon Musk is the selfsame impulse that drove the bulk of the Nazi Party. They were just greedy, ambitious, and full of themselves, convinced they could just take whatever they wanted and let nothing get in their way, including the government. Or the truth.
So, yes. That's what comes of "understanding" evil political movements. They're human. And we should all work our tails off not to end up like them.
He's endorsed the AfD and wee Tommy two names, as well as anti-semitic conspiracy theories. That's way beyond bog standard right wing fuckery and well into Nazi territory even before you get to the blatant sieg heils.
You really think there's no difference in kind between preferences in music, and preferences in committing mass murder or not doing so?
Really? Fuck me!
I'm pretty sure the world would have a lot fewer problems if the opinion that genocide is bad was universally shared.
But again, fuck me. You think you know people and they say something like this.
Ironically, this is a public post, so I don't think you need a facebook account to read it, thankfully. And I wouldn't ordinarily send people there, but the essay is too long to copy here and it's apparently a personal take from another billionaire bro who seems to have been buddies with Elon back in the day.
I think the piece has some truly fine nuances on Elon's approach to fascism.
Personally, I think if you start carrying around the accoutrements of fascism for fame and glory or for the lulz or to look cool, whatever, it doesn't matter. You're a fascist. Fascism is like a demon that gets into your head as soon as you let it in and makes you think you're using it. Contra the author, I'm comfortable saying this makes Musk a fascist, at least, if not a neo nazi.
But the whole piece is rather stunning in its detail and intimacy. It feels legit, and is well worth a read. I'm impressed by the humanity of it all.
Tell you what Marvin, film yourself making the arm gesture, post it on Linkedin, tag in the institution you work at, and let us know how it goes for you.
.. followed up by a reference to the 14 words, now I suspect the man was trying to be edgy, but ironic X is still X.
Not in kind, no. There’s massive differences in degree, of course.
Yeah. I started some arguments on a facebook page from where I grew up and realized I was dealing with folks who saw themselves as enemy combatants rather than debate partners, and at that point...blockity blockity block. I'm rapidly shifting to just tuning people out of they seem even slightly disingenuous, which sadly describes most Trump fans I've encountered online.
To be fair, there's probably a selection bias on political fora for partisanship, but it's getting repulsive. There's no gain in such conversation.
I'd leave FB altogether but I still find meaningful connections there, and some folks who seem to appreciate my presence.
I'm one who is very glad you are there on FB. When I couldn't access the Ship, it was comforting to know that I could contact Shipmates who are also on FB.
I do know of people who have left Twitter/X for Bluesky and apparently it;s pleasanter but really I've little interest in it
I'm not sure how useful these applications really are
I'm also rather fussy about accepting 'friend' requests. If I don't know the person they don't get approved.......So there!!!
That really isn't a bad policy. I used to be more promiscuous, but I think that as I've gotten older and the world has gotten meaner, I've gotten more guarded again.
Funny thing, I was just reading this book and one thing they talked about is how facebook, unlike most every other traditional online forum or network, broke a wall by tying people IRL identity directly to their internet identity, which is not something that happened much prior and - I think - has been less prominent since. And that might have been a bad idea.
Like, I remember back in the day when it was a novelty to find your high school friends and catch up with them, but now, a decade and more later, the novelty has worn off and these friends are either absentee, annoyance (just blocked one for the first time) or have developed into a relationship completely different than the one we had in high school such that high school seems frankly irrelevant.
And honestly, I do not want to be remembered for the half baked blob I was in high school. I really don't like that guy anymore. I'm amazed anyone put up with him.
The confluence of IRL with internet socialization is one thing that makes facebook dangerous, I think, moreso than this place or bluesky. It's all too exposed, and it's easy to forget that.
I am in several specialised and heavily moderated FB groups - Church Musicians, Liturgy, motorbikes, photography mainly, that have interesting and useful discussions and information. They are very active and have very knowledgable contributors. So I focus on them. Its a resource that isn't to be found in other places.
Exactly, I use Facebook to keep up with family/friends, and for folk rock, railway preservation and railway modelling - all skew to a Facebook demographic, and for modelling in particular Facebook is an awesome resource that just doesn’t exist *anywhere* else in the same way (and believe me I’ve looked REALLY hard for an alternative, RMweb is good, and I’m a member of that - bit like SoF but for railway modelling - but it’s the photographs, videos and speed of response to requests for help that are unmatched off Facebook IME).
Family are on WhatsApp, but I am still in touch with former colleagues and pupils on FB even though I have been retired for 15 years. And that's rather lovely.
Most environments contain arseholes, that doesn't mean you have be on to be there. And the speed and number of responses on FB groups is unmatched.