Depends whether you believe the KGB had a hand in it. He was killed brutally, with an axe.
I don’t know enough to be sure whether he had private enemies. At any rate, the person who killed him was never found, never prosecuted. If the murderer was insane, or seeking personal vengeance for some other reason, I think he was more likely to be caught. But his death remains a mystery. And a tragedy.
Since you mention him, Berdyaev died in post war France in 1948. He got out of Russia. I should think his life, certainly his freedom, were increasingly at risk in Stalinist Russia. But I think he died peacefully, aged 74.
Given the state Russia was in at the time, I find it hard to believe the KGB would have gone rogue - the Soviet government didn't authorize it - in that very up close and personal direction. They didn't even do a clean job. He staggered to his gate. The police seemed to act punctiliously. Cui bono?
I think it originated through sincere reflection on individual consciousness. Then some joint reflection (e.g. Cappadocean Fathers). One might say today that the doctrine (leaving aside politics and intrigue) was a means of expressing what was seen as the best of Christian collective consciousness. And how one relates to the doctrine as an individual does depend on how it resonates with our own experience and reflection. Making it a matter of obedience depends on how that might be enforced.
(I’m interested in the ideas of collective consciousness and related collective conscience. But that’s another thread, probably.)
Martin54. Trouble with speculation about the KGB is it spawned Putin! Otherwise, your observations are very reasonable. But you can understand his loyal contemporaries, based on years of experience, thinking “they must have had a hand in it”.
So I went back and re read the OP and I still have no difficulty with the question of His divinity because of how directly He emanates from the Original Consciousness into the universe, and how easily He received and transmitted information therefrom.
The question in my mind is how do we define "divine"?
Because of the logical inconsistencies that arise from any kind of binary perception of reality (sacred/profane mundane/divine good/evil etc.) I've had to take a position and then work my way outwards from it.
Moving from the premise that it's ALL divine, then there's really no point at which He wasn't. But then this also implies that we are also, likewise, imbued with a similar divinity. And I don't have any problem with that either because to me it just seems that the degree to which I perceive my own divinity is in direct relation to how "closely tuned" to the emanating Original Consciousness I feel myself to be.
And as it turns out, I feel pretty remote from it on almost all days. But not all, which leads me to conclude that my signal receiver is limited to a very narrow band of perception that is hampered by "noise" at the local level, almost all the time.
So I get why the founders of official doctrine felt like they needed to simplify the idea of the divinity of Jesus because one of the most profound experiences of His divinity is feeling His permeating love indwelling in oneself. And that's an experience very much worth promoting. Because there's no point in telling people they are salved, healed and dearly loved if they can't feel it.
He did say "All I have done, you will do. And more" and I've always taken that as a promise.
Good stuff, AFF. I guess I realised that if I could get out of the way, the divine would be revealed. But then if I was in the way, ditto. I have some quibbles with "original" consciousness, since it's all original. I mean the origin is here and now. No matter.
Good stuff, AFF. I guess I realised that if I could get out of the way, the divine would be revealed. But then if I was in the way, ditto. I have some quibbles with "original" consciousness, since it's all original. I mean the origin is here and now. No matter.
No quibble at all on my part ... I hear you loud and clear re: original, all in the definition.
And the NOW is eternal and eternally present. There is no other moment, really. Experience flows though us. It's all the present - which is a present!
Comments
Given the state Russia was in at the time, I find it hard to believe the KGB would have gone rogue - the Soviet government didn't authorize it - in that very up close and personal direction. They didn't even do a clean job. He staggered to his gate. The police seemed to act punctiliously. Cui bono?
(I’m interested in the ideas of collective consciousness and related collective conscience. But that’s another thread, probably.)
Martin54. Trouble with speculation about the KGB is it spawned Putin! Otherwise, your observations are very reasonable. But you can understand his loyal contemporaries, based on years of experience, thinking “they must have had a hand in it”.
And. …. we’re off track again!
The question in my mind is how do we define "divine"?
Because of the logical inconsistencies that arise from any kind of binary perception of reality (sacred/profane mundane/divine good/evil etc.) I've had to take a position and then work my way outwards from it.
Moving from the premise that it's ALL divine, then there's really no point at which He wasn't. But then this also implies that we are also, likewise, imbued with a similar divinity. And I don't have any problem with that either because to me it just seems that the degree to which I perceive my own divinity is in direct relation to how "closely tuned" to the emanating Original Consciousness I feel myself to be.
And as it turns out, I feel pretty remote from it on almost all days. But not all, which leads me to conclude that my signal receiver is limited to a very narrow band of perception that is hampered by "noise" at the local level, almost all the time.
So I get why the founders of official doctrine felt like they needed to simplify the idea of the divinity of Jesus because one of the most profound experiences of His divinity is feeling His permeating love indwelling in oneself. And that's an experience very much worth promoting. Because there's no point in telling people they are salved, healed and dearly loved if they can't feel it.
He did say "All I have done, you will do. And more" and I've always taken that as a promise.
AFF
No quibble at all on my part ... I hear you loud and clear re: original, all in the definition.
And the NOW is eternal and eternally present. There is no other moment, really. Experience flows though us. It's all the present - which is a present!
AFF