I wait to see if Trump tries to have her ;investigated'.
One member of the House of Representatives has stated that he wants her to be deported. As she was born in New Jersey, I am vague as to WHERE he thinks she should be deported. He is a Representative from Georgia, the same State that gave us the clueless Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Must be something in the water.
Coke. Whether the fizzy drink or its white powdered erstwhile ingredient is left as an exercise for the reader.
She isn't a prophet, no John the Baptist, no Elijah. and he isn't Herod or Ahab. There is no justice. King David knew. The wicked prosper. Allllll the way. At least Herod Antipas felt bad. Ahab repented. That can never happen with Trump. He will die with a smile on his face.
Nothing about this has a Biblical analogy. No myth makes it work, makes it better.
Christianity subverted the Roman empire. It took three hundred years.
I suspect you're right, on a Christian discussion forum it's difficult to disagree with someone who so clearly expressed the words of Christ in her homily. Though given the propensity of Christ to address the Pharisees as "white washed tombs" and to make a whip to drive out those who were focussed on making money from the poor rather than worship of God I'm not sure Jesus would have made the same point in such a polite and respectful manner.
On the other hand, He has the authority to in ways we don’t. It was literally His temple. That doesn’t mean we’re never allowed to do so, but I think we should be careful.
He’s vengeful and doesn’t forget or forgive perceived slights.
Oh he does forget if people do obeisance. Witness Vance, and numerous other Republicans that were briefly honest about him then were in his good graces once they bent the knee.
Hence, I suspect, all of the social media and related billionaires cozying up to him so quickly. I’m thinking that they don’t want to become targets, in at least some cases.
The Roman Catholic National Conferance of Bishops (USA) has also come out with a letter to Trump calling him to act mercifully. See news release. But, what do they know?
Well, at least theoretically, Trump’s vice-president ought to have some obligation to pay attention to what the Catholic bishops have to say.
I see several letters of the Presbyterian Church USA have come out speaking against the executive order too. Here/
I am told Mr. and Mrs. Trump have been attending the Lakeside Presbyterian Church in West Palm Beach, FL Lakeside is PCUSA. Do you think he will listen to leaders of the national body?
Hell will freeze over first. But, considering how could it has been getting in Florida this past week, hell just might do that.
(NPR briefly mentioned Pensacola got eight inches of snow this past week. Anchorage got only four inches).
Not right. 1/3 of the electorate did vote against Trump. The other third did not vote at all. Who can say why they did not vote, but whatever it was, they remain against Trump in the large scale of things.
People often say this about elections (assuming that the non-voters are not in favor of whichever side wins). It's nonsense.
All you can conclude about non-voters is that they didn't vote.
About 80% of the US lives in states that weren't in realistic contention at the last election.
"There's no point in me voting, because the X are going to win anyway" is a valid opinion, whether or not you'd generally support X.
Some people chose not to vote because (for whatever reason) they don't like either candidate. If you elect not to vote in such circumstances, then you are functionally acquiescing to whichever candidate wins. You don't get to claim that you were against the winner if you live in a swing state unless you took yourself down to the polling station and voted for the other viable candidate.
Well, at least theoretically, Trump’s vice-president ought to have some obligation to pay attention to what the Catholic bishops have to say.
I see several letters of the Presbyterian Church USA have come out speaking against the executive order too. Here/
The story at that link, while a story of the Presbyterian News Service that does quote the Rev. Jimmie Hawkins, director of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)’s Office of Public Witness, also says “[a] group of Christian, Jewish and Muslim faith leaders joined together on Wednesday afternoon to express opposition to President Trump’s executive orders on immigration and refugees.”
I am told Mr. and Mrs. Trump have been attending the Lakeside Presbyterian Church in West Palm Beach, FL
Well, at least theoretically, Trump’s vice-president ought to have some obligation to pay attention to what the Catholic bishops have to say.
I see several letters of the Presbyterian Church USA have come out speaking against the executive order too. Here/
The story at that link, while a story of the Presbyterian News Service that does quote the Rev. Jimmie Hawkins, director of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)’s Office of Public Witness, also says “[a] group of Christian, Jewish and Muslim faith leaders joined together on Wednesday afternoon to express opposition to President Trump’s executive orders on immigration and refugees.”
I am told Mr. and Mrs. Trump have been attending the Lakeside Presbyterian Church in West Palm Beach, FL
Well, at least theoretically, Trump’s vice-president ought to have some obligation to pay attention to what the Catholic bishops have to say.
In the 1980s, Canadian Catholic bishops criticized the austerity policies put into place by Pierre Trudeau, a practicing Roman Catholic with a history of involvement in left-wing labour and social movements.
Trudeau replied to the bishops' plea for the poor with "They should stick to handing out Holy Communion."
So, yeah, I would think a guy like Vance would be at least equally comfortable with ignoring whatever the bishops tell him about policy.
The Roman Catholic National Conferance of Bishops (USA) has also come out with a letter to Trump calling him to act mercifully. See news release. But, what do they know?
Just looked up Budde's book in the Kindle store. #1 best seller in religion and spirituality. Nice to see junk like Osteen's and Meyers' (et al) overshadowed by something that might actually have some practical social value. I'll look at the sample before I purchase.
Well, at least theoretically, Trump’s vice-president ought to have some obligation to pay attention to what the Catholic bishops have to say.
I see several letters of the Presbyterian Church USA have come out speaking against the executive order too. Here/
The story at that link, while a story of the Presbyterian News Service that does quote the Rev. Jimmie Hawkins, director of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)’s Office of Public Witness, also says “[a] group of Christian, Jewish and Muslim faith leaders joined together on Wednesday afternoon to express opposition to President Trump’s executive orders on immigration and refugees.”
I am told Mr. and Mrs. Trump have been attending the Lakeside Presbyterian Church in West Palm Beach, FL
That article says Trump “is also loosely affiliated with Lakeside Presbyterian Church in West Palm Beach, Florida, near his Mar-a-Lago estate.” The sole citation for that statement is Heather Collins-Grattan Floyd’s self-published 2016 book Trump in the Middle: Why America Needs a Middle Child This Time Around. From the blurb:
Most U.S. presidents have been firstborns, which is the birth order that is distinguished by self-confidence and assuming leadership even among friends. Almost two decades after the most horrific attack on American civilians in our country’s history, it seems ideal to elect a president who instead leads by being a natural team-player – a middle child – like Donald Trump.
So yeah, I’m not sure I’d trust anything that book has to say.
Yes, the article to which I linked was from 2020, not 2030. But it was Trump’s own statement that he no longer identifies as Presbyterian.
I wonder whether Trump and his entourage thought things would be fine at the Cathedral because the pre-inauguration service at St. John's the morning before catered to him. "All three scripture readers were close allies of the new Trump administration. Jack Graham, a Texas megachurch pastor and Trump advisor, read from Proverbs 3. Henry Stephan, a Catholic priest and mentor who baptized JD Vance, read 1 Peter 4. And Alveda C. King, niece of Martin Luther King Jr. and a Republican activist and politician, read from Galatians 3." ( and no sermon, https://sojo.net/articles/news/trump-attends-nonpartisan-service-church-he-once-used-photo-op). St. John's across the way from the White House was the Episcopal church he had the photo op in front of after protesters had been cleared out of his way.
In addition in 2017 the Cathedral service had no sermon and the readings/prayers were less biting though relevant for leaders (first reading: Solomon asking God for wisdom, https://web.archive.org/web/20170202043812/https://cathedral.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Inaugural-Prayer-Service-2017.pdf versus last week's Deuteronomy "...awesome God, who shows no favor and takes no bribe, but upholds the cause of the orphan and the widow, and befriends the stranger, providing those who need with food and clothing. You too must befriend the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt", https://cathedral.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Service-of-Prayer-for-the-Nation-2025-Online.pdf)
Note not all presidents have attended the prayer service (having a prayer service is a recent custom). He was enticed into a position where he and those in his entourage would hear what they heard and find it painful.
In WorldCat it's listed in 146 libraries in the US, 2 in Australia and 5 in Canada.
Overdrive, Ebscohost, VleBooks, YourCloudLibrary and Ebook Central all have files of the book. You'll need to check with your local library to find out if a a copy of the ebook is available in their ebook subscription.
Library copies may be available in your country, even if they didn't appear in WorldCat.
Bookshare subscribers -- you have access. I don't know what additional ebook subscription libraries might have it in countries other than the U.S.
All this seems to underline the immense contrast between Trump and the late James Earl Carter.
Yes, I know Mr Carter was not a particularly successful President, at least according to some people, but his example on how to live a good Christian life stands out. I also know that he was by no means perfect, of course, like the rest of us...
Carter proved himself to be a sinner and a saint. Trump has no idea on how to be a saint. Budde stands up for the poor, the immigrant, and the homosexual. She is most Christlike, don't you think?
Carter proved himself to be a sinner and a saint. Trump has no idea on how to be a saint. Budde stands up for the poor, the immigrant, and the homosexual. She is most Christlike, don't you think?
Carter proved himself to be a sinner and a saint. Trump has no idea on how to be a saint. Budde stands up for the poor, the immigrant, and the homosexual. She is most Christlike, don't you think?
How was Carter a proven sinner?
I believe Brzezinski was the imp hovering above his shoulder.
@Gamma Gamaliel, I don’t think picking up spelling errors in that way, however light-hearted the intention, is going to contribute to serious discussion.
Carter proved himself to be a sinner and a saint. Trump has no idea on how to be a saint. Budde stands up for the poor, the immigrant, and the homosexual. She is most Christlike, don't you think?
How was Carter a proven sinner?
Apart from the Fall of all humans in general, which he believed in, he famously confessed to having lust in his heart.
Well, if Trump went anywhere that uses the three year lectionary, he probably would have heard this gospel.
Luke 1:1-4,4:14-21
Seeing that many others have undertaken to draw up accounts of the events that have taken place among us, exactly as these were handed down to us by those who from the outset were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word, I in my turn, after carefully going over the whole story from the beginning, have decided to write an ordered account for you, Theophilus, so that your Excellency may learn how well founded the teaching is that you have received.
Jesus, with the power of the Spirit in him, returned to Galilee; and his reputation spread throughout the countryside. He taught in their synagogues and everyone praised him.
He came to Nazara, where he had been brought up, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day as he usually did. He stood up to read and they handed him the scroll of the prophet Isaiah. Unrolling the scroll he found the place where it is written:
The spirit of the Lord has been given to me,
for he has anointed me.
He has sent me to bring the good news to the poor,
to proclaim liberty to captives
and to the blind new sight,
to set the downtrodden free,
to proclaim the Lord’s year of favour.
He then rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the assistant and sat down. And all eyes in the synagogue were fixed on him. Then he began to speak to them, ‘This text is being fulfilled today even as you listen.’
Demonstrating that “wokeness” goes at least as far as Isaiah.
Translation is the Jerusalem Bible, currently in use in the RC lectionary in Australia, New Zealand and Ireland.
Mind you, I think Trump and fan-club have a pretty oddball definition of the downtrodden.
Did anyone else catch Radio 4 Sunday this morning? They wheeled in one of Trump's pet pastors to give an unhinged rant about +Mariann. It was really quite disturbing how much he lied (claiming the Bishop didn't preach from scripture) and dissembled (basically claiming that any reference to compassion, or mercy, or helping the oppressed can and should be exegeted into irrelevance).
In all seriousness I thought that +Mariann was excellent, her tone reminded me of ++Tutu's letters to P W Botha appealing to him as a fellow Christian, a father etc against injustice and for the values of God's Kingdom.
Did anyone else catch Radio 4 Sunday this morning? They wheeled in one of Trump's pet pastors to give an unhinged rant about +Mariann. It was really quite disturbing how much he lied (claiming the Bishop didn't preach from scripture) and dissembled (basically claiming that any reference to compassion, or mercy, or helping the oppressed can and should be exegeted into irrelevance).
Yes, I did catch that and couldn't quite believe what I was hearing.
Did anyone else catch Radio 4 Sunday this morning? They wheeled in one of Trump's pet pastors to give an unhinged rant about +Mariann. It was really quite disturbing how much he lied (claiming the Bishop didn't preach from scripture) and dissembled (basically claiming that any reference to compassion, or mercy, or helping the oppressed can and should be exegeted into irrelevance).
Yes, I did catch that and couldn't quite believe what I was hearing.
Comments
Coke. Whether the fizzy drink or its white powdered erstwhile ingredient is left as an exercise for the reader.
Nothing about this has a Biblical analogy. No myth makes it work, makes it better.
Christianity subverted the Roman empire. It took three hundred years.
The Right Revd Mariann Edgar Budde
Episcopal Church House
Mount St Alban
Washington, DC. 20016-5094, USA
I am sure she will be getting a lot of mail from the other side. Let's just make sure she gets mail from the side if the woke people too.
(ETA corrected name & address, DT.)
On the other hand, He has the authority to in ways we don’t. It was literally His temple. That doesn’t mean we’re never allowed to do so, but I think we should be careful.
What became of him?
Hence, I suspect, all of the social media and related billionaires cozying up to him so quickly. I’m thinking that they don’t want to become targets, in at least some cases.
This. Charles II is not someone I’d compare with someone awful like Trump.
He knew how to bear a grudge.
BroJames, Purgatory Host
I see several letters of the Presbyterian Church USA have come out speaking against the executive order too. Here/
I am told Mr. and Mrs. Trump have been attending the Lakeside Presbyterian Church in West Palm Beach, FL Lakeside is PCUSA. Do you think he will listen to leaders of the national body?
Hell will freeze over first. But, considering how could it has been getting in Florida this past week, hell just might do that.
(NPR briefly mentioned Pensacola got eight inches of snow this past week. Anchorage got only four inches).
People often say this about elections (assuming that the non-voters are not in favor of whichever side wins). It's nonsense.
All you can conclude about non-voters is that they didn't vote.
About 80% of the US lives in states that weren't in realistic contention at the last election.
"There's no point in me voting, because the X are going to win anyway" is a valid opinion, whether or not you'd generally support X.
Some people chose not to vote because (for whatever reason) they don't like either candidate. If you elect not to vote in such circumstances, then you are functionally acquiescing to whichever candidate wins. You don't get to claim that you were against the winner if you live in a swing state unless you took yourself down to the polling station and voted for the other viable candidate.
Oh he’s still in sunny Sinny and still the compleat Sydney Anglican ( as opposed to an Anglican who lives in Sinny)
If he had sense, Trump would not have criticised it because there was nothing to criticise.
Told by whom? Source please?
In 2030, Trump said he no longer identified as Presbyterian, but rather as “nondenominational Christian.”
Boy, we both had a rash of typos in our last exchange.
As for a source about Trump's faith affiliation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_and_religion
Am wondering how many farm workers are not showing up. It is reported up to 75% of the farm workers in Central California--Kern County (Bakersfield) did not show up for work today. And it is in the middle of the citrus harvest in California. https://www.the-express.com/news/us-news/161317/farm-workers-ice-raids-food-prices.
Bet the same thing is happening elsewhere
Get ready for food shortages.
In the 1980s, Canadian Catholic bishops criticized the austerity policies put into place by Pierre Trudeau, a practicing Roman Catholic with a history of involvement in left-wing labour and social movements.
Trudeau replied to the bishops' plea for the poor with "They should stick to handing out Holy Communion."
So, yeah, I would think a guy like Vance would be at least equally comfortable with ignoring whatever the bishops tell him about policy.
Horse.
Stable door.
This.
Sorry. I'm ventriloquising. None of the biblical examples had any come back apart from violence. He can double down all day long.
Is that it? Not with a bang but a whimper?
Yes, the article to which I linked was from 2020, not 2030.
In addition in 2017 the Cathedral service had no sermon and the readings/prayers were less biting though relevant for leaders (first reading: Solomon asking God for wisdom, https://web.archive.org/web/20170202043812/https://cathedral.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Inaugural-Prayer-Service-2017.pdf versus last week's Deuteronomy "...awesome God, who shows no favor and takes no bribe, but upholds the cause of the orphan and the widow, and befriends the stranger, providing those who need with food and clothing. You too must befriend the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt", https://cathedral.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Service-of-Prayer-for-the-Nation-2025-Online.pdf)
Note not all presidents have attended the prayer service (having a prayer service is a recent custom). He was enticed into a position where he and those in his entourage would hear what they heard and find it painful.
For those interested in Budde's book:
In WorldCat it's listed in 146 libraries in the US, 2 in Australia and 5 in Canada.
Overdrive, Ebscohost, VleBooks, YourCloudLibrary and Ebook Central all have files of the book. You'll need to check with your local library to find out if a a copy of the ebook is available in their ebook subscription.
Library copies may be available in your country, even if they didn't appear in WorldCat.
Bookshare subscribers -- you have access. I don't know what additional ebook subscription libraries might have it in countries other than the U.S.
Yes, I know Mr Carter was not a particularly successful President, at least according to some people, but his example on how to live a good Christian life stands out. I also know that he was by no means perfect, of course, like the rest of us...
How was Carter a proven sinner?
I believe Brzezinski was the imp hovering above his shoulder.
Tenants? Does the PCUSA rent out living accommodation?
BroJames, Purgatory Host
@Martin54 haven't you heard of the Lutheran teaching of everyone being a saint and sinner at the same time? Simu Ustis Et Pictator
I can’t tell if this is a joke of some sort or not, and far be it from me to correct a Lutheran clergyman, but it’s “simul justus et peccator.”
My apologies if I’m missing a joke.
There were two unrelated statements in my last post. One in response to @Gamma Gamaliel, the other in response to @Martin54
My Latin is very rusty.
Hope this helps clear up the confusion.
Apart from the Fall of all humans in general, which he believed in, he famously confessed to having lust in his heart.
Luke 1:1-4,4:14-21
Seeing that many others have undertaken to draw up accounts of the events that have taken place among us, exactly as these were handed down to us by those who from the outset were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word, I in my turn, after carefully going over the whole story from the beginning, have decided to write an ordered account for you, Theophilus, so that your Excellency may learn how well founded the teaching is that you have received.
Jesus, with the power of the Spirit in him, returned to Galilee; and his reputation spread throughout the countryside. He taught in their synagogues and everyone praised him.
He came to Nazara, where he had been brought up, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day as he usually did. He stood up to read and they handed him the scroll of the prophet Isaiah. Unrolling the scroll he found the place where it is written:
The spirit of the Lord has been given to me,
for he has anointed me.
He has sent me to bring the good news to the poor,
to proclaim liberty to captives
and to the blind new sight,
to set the downtrodden free,
to proclaim the Lord’s year of favour.
He then rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the assistant and sat down. And all eyes in the synagogue were fixed on him. Then he began to speak to them, ‘This text is being fulfilled today even as you listen.’
Demonstrating that “wokeness” goes at least as far as Isaiah.
Translation is the Jerusalem Bible, currently in use in the RC lectionary in Australia, New Zealand and Ireland.
Mind you, I think Trump and fan-club have a pretty oddball definition of the downtrodden.
What are the creche facilities like?
Yes, I did catch that and couldn't quite believe what I was hearing.
I'm glad I didn't hear it!!