US Becoming a No-Fly Zone?

With four fatal plane crashes in the United States, the Trump administration has been cutting critical staffing in the Federal Aviation Administration. While the administration is saying they will be keeping the flight controllers, the people that are being cut are the computer maintenance people, the programmers and electricians and the like. The flight controllers and the flying public are in a world of hurt when the computers go down. There have been instances when the FAA computers have malfunctioned in the past. Not a pretty picture.

One critical agency in the FAA that is being completely gutted is the FAA National Defense Program out of Hawaii. This is in partnership with the Department of Defense. It is set up to detect incoming missiles from North Korea or China. Just a few years ago, the system detected a missile fired from North Korea that looked as if it was headed to the islands. Fortunately, the missile splashed down in the middle of ocean"" It seems the DOGE people did not know what the NDP did, so they shut it down. Good thing the North Koreans did not take advantage of the hole in the sky over this past weekend.

Another aviation related board, the Aviation Safety Administration, was terminated by Trump. This small agency was tasked with making sure American planes and American Airports are safe. When a panel came off an Alaskan Airline plane over Portland a couple of years ago, it was the ASA which stepped in to investigate the incident and set up remedial programs with Boeing to make sure it did not happen again.

Remember that fatal crash in Mexico, where a plane lost control as it landed and slammed into a fixed wall, killing all on board. If the airport had been in the US that wall would not have been approved. Without the ASA panels can continue to fly off, engines can drop off, wings can get detached, and obstacles can be placed near runways that should not be there.

My advice to international travelers? It is not safe to fly through US air space. Fly around, Go north into Canada. My advice to domestic travelers? Find alternative modes of transportation.

AP story here

Comments

  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    I've seen people cancelling plans to fly to the US for conferences already. I also saw Space X were getting involved

    https://spacenews.com/spacex-invited-to-provide-input-on-faa-air-traffic-control-modernization/

    Now I'm not an expert on this, but as the article says, this appears to raise conflicts of interests that impinge on aviation safety?
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Louise wrote: »
    I've seen people cancelling plans to fly to the US for conferences already.

    Because of safety considerations or out of a wish to boycott US-based things? Or both? (Both seem reasonable to me.)

    My partner and I are planning to fly a couple of times this summer. I figure a. Flying is still much safer than driving, and b. If one of the planes goes down with us in it, there are worse ways to die.
  • When was the last time you heard of a train crash? About four years ago as I recall.
  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    Aviation safety @Ruth in this context, though now I think of it, people have also talked about not attending conferences or cons due to lack of safety for women, pregnant people, LGBTQ+ folk etc.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    When was the last time you heard of a train crash? About four years ago as I recall.
    More recently than that. The last crash in which someone died was the Talerddig collision last October - although the person who died wasn't directly killed by their injuries but had a heart attack shortly afterwards. Before that we had the crash near Stonehaven.

    Most accidental (i.e. non-suicidal) deaths on the railway (and they are few) are of workers on the tracks, at pedestrian crossings of the line, or dragging by closing train doors. See: https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/hizn3q3n/rail-safety-2023-24.pdf

    /Tangent ends

  • I was referring to plane crashes in the United States, Should have made that clear.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    When was the last time you heard of a train crash? About four years ago as I recall.
    More recently than that. The last crash in which someone died was the Talerddig collision last October - although the person who died wasn't directly killed by their injuries but had a heart attack shortly afterwards. Before that we had the crash near Stonehaven.

    Pretty sure Gramps49 was talking about train crashes in the US, as compared to aviation safety here, given the thread title and OP.

    A train derailment in Texas killed two Union Pacific workers in December, but I didn't know about it till I went looking for train derailments. The last one I remember hearing about was the big one in Ohio a couple of years ago -- no one died in the accident itself, but the train was carrying highly toxic materials so the derailment created an environmental disaster, and it is claimed people have died as a result of that. The last big passenger train derailment I remember hearing about was in Missouri in 2022; I remember this one because my partner and I had taken this train, the Southwest Chief, to Chicago on our first trip together. Four people died when the train hit a dump truck stalled at a crossing.

    Train travel seems very safe in the US, but how many of us use it? And how long before the stupid and ridiculous cuts in the federal government affect the rail system? It was fun taking the train to Chicago, but two nights on the train is my limit. I'm not taking the train across the country to New Jersey this summer, and oddly enough Amtrak doesn't go to Europe. So flying it is.
  • Thank you!
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    Ruth wrote: »
    <snip>oddly enough Amtrak doesn't go to Europe. So flying it is.

    It’s all right. Elon Musk has got that sorted- just as soon as he’s tidied up the Federal Government!
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Except his hyperloop company went bankrupt a little while back. Oh well!

    The question of what is and is not safe in the US is only going to become more fraught. The federal government touches so many aspects of life. Air travel is a big, obvious one, but there's also food safety. Worker safety. Doubtless many other things that I won't even think of till Musk screws them up.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    When was the last time you heard of a train crash? About four years ago as I recall.

    I heard of a train crashing in to a car at a grade crossing last week. A train derailed yesterday. I don't think there were injuries in either of these incidents.
  • You all are talking about small accidents. But when was there one train accident that killed 67 or more individuals at once? I cannot find one in the last 100 years. Here is a list of the major accidents in the last 25 years.

  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    How is that relevant? The train is not an option for a lot of people for long-distance passenger travel in the US. Amtrak's lines are very limited, as are its schedules, and it's extremely slow. My partner and I both have family on the east coast, and neither of us is interested in spending three days in the train each direction to visit them.

    Train travel won't get any better under the current administration, and it could easily get worse. And less safe.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    Except his hyperloop company went bankrupt a little while back. Oh well!

    What's notable is that Musk's hyperloop company, as well as the Boring Company, only tended to show up when some municipality was considering large mass transit projects and, if the project was awarded to them, would massively under-deliver on the scope, providing something that (if completed) wouldn't perform as well as an ordinary subway or bus line. In a lot of ways these companies could be considered "loss leaders" for Musk's car business.
    Ruth wrote: »
    The question of what is and is not safe in the US is only going to become more fraught. The federal government touches so many aspects of life. Air travel is a big, obvious one, but there's also food safety. Worker safety. Doubtless many other things that I won't even think of till Musk screws them up.

    Disease tracking?
    The U.S. Department of Agriculture said Tuesday that, over the weekend, it accidentally fired "several" agency employees who are working on the federal government's response to the H5N1 avian flu outbreak.

    The agency said it is now trying to quickly reverse the firings.

    "Although several positions supporting [bird flu efforts] were notified of their terminations over the weekend, we are working to swiftly rectify the situation and rescind those letters," a USDA spokesperson said in a statement. "USDA’s Food Safety and Inspection Service frontline positions are considered public safety positions, and we are continuing to hire the workforce necessary to ensure the safety and adequate supply of food to fulfill our statutory mission."

    Those of us whose memories extend back five years remember that Trump's preferred method of "dealing with" COVID was to simply not report cases. That still seems to be his preferred method of handling disease outbreaks.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Grandfather Nurgle loves Trump and RFKjr.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    When was the last time you heard of a train crash? About four years ago as I recall.

    There was a train fire recently that start because of something under the train. No deaths but a big mess to clean up.

    But yeah, I think trains are exponentially safer. Biggest issue is that you have to budget a lot of time to be on them and they often have scheduling hiccups. And it's rather expensive for longer trips, not much cheaper than flying if you're not comfortable sleeping in coach.

    This as someone who has used Amtrak a lot and actually enjoys the experience.
  • Not at all cheaper, as I’ve regretted many times when pricing trips to California.
  • Our one son is a railroad enthusiast, much like his grandfather. He often takes the train from Portend OR to Fairhaven WA to visit his siblings. Much faster than driving, and quicker than flying that distance. Price is reasonable.

    Would that we could develop more highspeed rail lines in North America.

  • Usually when a plane goes down everyone dies and it hits the headlines. Usually when a train crashes there are plenty of survivors and it doesn't. Therefore we remember the plane crashes. The number of deaths per passenger mile travelled is far lower in air travel than in other methods of transport (as Superman reminded us) but the chances of survival if there is an issue are far greater if you're already close to the ground.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited February 20
    I wonder if the horrible events unfolding in the US (and I'm not referring only to plane crashes!) are likely to severely affect the tourist industry? I'm thinking mainly of those potential visitors from abroad, who would usually arrive by air.

    Many people may have a desire to not be on the same continent as Trump and the Muskrats, but I'd hazard a guess that the regime's hatred and wickedness towards brown people will soon trigger a severe shortage of labour in the hospitality sector - or is this, maybe, already happening?
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Not yet. They haven't deported nearly as many people as they've scared. But if they actually do what they say they want to do, the hospitality sector will be severely hit, as will all agriculture relying on farm labor.
  • Ruth wrote: »
    Not yet. They haven't deported nearly as many people as they've scared. But if they actually do what they say they want to do, the hospitality sector will be severely hit, as will all agriculture relying on farm labor.

    Thank you. I can appreciate that a great many people are indeed scared, though I hadn't thought about the potential problems with agricultural labour.
  • I wonder if the horrible events unfolding in the US (and I'm not referring only to plane crashes!) are likely to severely affect the tourist industry? I'm thinking mainly of those potential visitors from abroad, who would usually arrive by air.

    Many people may have a desire to not be on the same continent as Trump and the Muskrats, but I'd hazard a guess that the regime's hatred and wickedness towards brown people will soon trigger a severe shortage of labour in the hospitality sector - or is this, maybe, already happening?

    I wouldn't come here if I weren't already here. Stay away. The world has many beautiful places for your holiday. Don't risk it.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    I wonder if the horrible events unfolding in the US (and I'm not referring only to plane crashes!) are likely to severely affect the tourist industry? I'm thinking mainly of those potential visitors from abroad, who would usually arrive by air.

    Many people may have a desire to not be on the same continent as Trump and the Muskrats, but I'd hazard a guess that the regime's hatred and wickedness towards brown people will soon trigger a severe shortage of labour in the hospitality sector - or is this, maybe, already happening?

    I wouldn't come here if I weren't already here. Stay away. The world has many beautiful places for your holiday. Don't risk it.

    My thoughts exactly.

    (My sister-in-law is in San Francisco at the moment, on work-related business, and is very much looking forward to coming home to the dystopian socialist hell-hole known as *England*...)
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    I am all in favor of people making personal choices that reflect their politics. But arguments about not flying to the US because of aviation safety concerns are ridiculous given that the far, far greater danger posed by automobiles doesn't spark proportionate concern.
  • Ruth wrote: »
    I am all in favor of people making personal choices that reflect their politics. But arguments about not flying to the US because of aviation safety concerns are ridiculous given that the far, far greater danger posed by automobiles doesn't spark proportionate concern.

    I was talking about political concerns.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    As a big Disney Parks fan and member of the biggest forum in the UK on the subject, I am seeing a lot of my fellow members going to Paris, Tokyo or taking cruises with Disney from the UK or mainland Europe instead of flying to the US.
  • EigonEigon Shipmate
    I know that several people have said that they won't be going to the World SF Convention this year, which is in Seattle, when they normally would have gone - not particularly because of aviation safety, but the general political situation.
  • @Ruth is right - flying to the US is probably as safe as it's ever been, at least for now. Not flying to the US as a tourist or conference attendee, because of US politics, is another matter.
  • Yes flying to or over the US can be a political statement. Why would you want to have your hard earned money support the American administration? After all, even international carriers pay overflight fees if they go through American air space.
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