The Happiest Country

HugalHugal Shipmate
In a new list of Happiest countries Finland is the happiest. The UK and US are 23 and 24. Below is the BBC article.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr72xep44kdo

Northern European countries dominate but Costa Rico, Mexico and Luxembourg are all in the top ten.
What can the rest of us do to make things better?
Good public services seem to be a strong factor in happiness and being closer to nature. For me we need to have a more left leaning government. Not necessarily fully left but one that invests in public services, and the general environment. If that means more taxes then so be it. I know some will not agree with me so here is our chance to talk about what makes a happy country,

Comments

  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    The USA keeps sinking in this poll, and a big driver seems to be young adults.
    If you were only to assess those below 30, the U.S. wouldn’t even rank in the top 60 happiest countries, the report finds. It’s the same reason for the U.S.’s dramatic drop last year from no.15 to no.23. But the continuous decline is concerning, researchers note.

    “It is really disheartening to see this, and it links perfectly with the fact that it’s the well-being of youth in America that’s off a cliff, which is driving the drop in the rankings to a large extent,” De Neve says.

    As always, these things are multifactorial. There is an increase in loneliness (such as eating alone) and distrust of others. Happier countries tend to be more generous and kinder. But when your political leaders demonize kindness and generosity as "being woke" it should not be a surprise that young adults don't perceive that as existing in the US. (Not that it doesn't exist. It does, but it is underestimated, leading to unhappiness.)
    The report focused more this year on the strength of a country’s social support and how much people trust in others—a key predictor of personal well-being. In 2023, nearly one in five young adults in the U.S. said they had no one they could count on for support. And in the U.S., the number of people dining alone has increased by 53% since 2003 (the number of shared meals across a week was a new data point in this year’s report that correlated to positive well-being, according to De Neve).

    “You see an extraordinary increase in dining alone over the past two decades in the U.S.,” he says, which exacerbates people’s distrust in others and in society. “It’s the fact that people are increasingly on their own, isolated, their political thinking, their theories around life and society, are no longer tested by others … In our echo chambers, we develop these notions that others are to be distrusted, and we mistrust others, and migrants eat cats and dogs, all that kind of stuff. And as a result, we start believing these things. And the way we’ve picked up on that is really acute.”

    The researchers say they were able to pick up on the distrust by asking whether or not people believed someone would return a lost wallet. Compared to the Nordic countries, people in the U.S. were more likely to underestimate the kindness of others.




  • RockyRogerRockyRoger Shipmate
    But us Brits are never happier than when we're miserable .....
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Ill fares the land, to hastening ills a prey
    Where wealth accumulates and men decay.
  • Great topic for a thread, @Hugal.

    I'm broadly in agreement with your take on this but would add the following:

    - close knit communities with a less 'atomised' and individualistic vibe.

    - people involved in creative activity and making their own entertainment to some extent rather than relying on TV celebs, the internet etc. Ok, I know I'm into poetry groups and readings and amateur dramatics but I can also see how much value local bands, choirs and such like bring to a community. You will know from your involvement in dance how that brings people together.

    - local produce and farmers' markets etc.

    The list could be longer but that will do for a starter.

  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Great topic for a thread, @Hugal.

    I'm broadly in agreement with your take on this but would add the following:

    - close knit communities with a less 'atomised' and individualistic vibe.

    You are free to add things; but as @Hedgehog indicates above these are multifactorial; so whereas Finland's placing is down to "access to nature and a strong welfare system as factors" "family bonds were a factor in Costa Rica's and Mexico's rise in the rankings".

    So we could all come up with much longer and more comprehensive lists, and to an extent it would great if we were making progress along each one, but until that point progress in some of those factors can make up for failure or lack of movement in others.
  • I'm curious as to how causation is calculated. For example, I'd vote for contact with nature, but close knit communities give me the collywobbles. So do we add up all the individual preferences, and divide by population?
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    I'm curious as to how causation is calculated.

    From a quick look at the report, it looks like it was based on polling and partially ranking preferences: https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2025/#appendices-and-data
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    Ill fares the land, to hastening ills a prey
    Where wealth accumulates and men decay.

    Oh, what is that from?
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    Firenze wrote: »
    Ill fares the land, to hastening ills a prey
    Where wealth accumulates and men decay.

    Oh, what is that from?

    Goldsmith The Deserted Village. True then, true now.

  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    At a time when they have an aggressive Russia on their southern border, I am amazed that the Fins are so happy.
  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    Well they didn't do too badly last time.
  • RockyRogerRockyRoger Shipmate
    Great topic for a thread, @Hugal.

    I'm broadly in agreement with your take on this but would add the following:

    - close knit communities with a less 'atomised' and individualistic vibe.

    - people involved in creative activity and making their own entertainment to some extent rather than relying on TV celebs, the internet etc. Ok, I know I'm into poetry groups and readings and amateur dramatics but I can also see how much value local bands, choirs and such like bring to a community. You will know from your involvement in dance how that brings people together.

    - local produce and farmers' markets etc.

    The list could be longer but that will do for a starter.
    Right on GG! Churches can help a lot here, as can hobby groups. We live in a small village and the gardening association is a lifeline for many of us crusties.
    Alas, not a few 'incomers' have gravelled over theit gardens an appear to work remotely ....
    But we do what we can ..... roll on the next craft fair!

  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    Telford wrote: »
    At a time when they have an aggressive Russia on their southern border, I am amazed that the Fins are so happy.

    We have friends in Helsinki. Last year they were issued with iodine for their toddler to be kept in case of nuclear fall-out.

    I suspect that if I had a toddler and government-issue iodine in the medicine cupboard, I would not be happy. But perhaps it feels similar to having Calpol in the cupboard in case of a fever or ear-ache.
  • RockyRoger wrote: »
    But us Brits are never happier than when we're miserable .....

    Oh well, mustn't grumble 😈
  • Merry VoleMerry Vole Shipmate
    Could there be cultural differences in the way people respond to surveys? I mean if I'm approached by someone with a clipboard I'm pissed off whatever it's about!

    PS Cartoon in recent Private Eye has a man with a clipboard standing in front of a 'British Antarctic Survey' building and talking to a penguin who is saying "I'm a bit busy, but go on.."
  • Hugal wrote: »
    The UK and US are 23 and 24.

    So we're in the top 12% of countries for happiness? Sounds reasonable to me.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Hugal wrote: »
    The UK and US are 23 and 24.

    So we're in the top 12% of countries for happiness? Sounds reasonable to me.
    I reckon that some people are a lot happier than others
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    I reckon that some people are a lot happier than others
    Clearly that is true for the US ranking. As I quoted earlier, if they focus just on the age-30-and-under group, the US falls out of the top 60, so for it to finish at 24th rather implies that the over-30 age group is almost delusionally happy.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    I am wondering how this might collate with the use of Anit-depressants. Wikipedia indicates some of the happiest countries also dispenses more anti-depressants. But that appears to be a dated survey.

    Here in Pullman, there was a recent report on how the use of therapy dogs seem to help relieve stress and for freshman students at the university.

    I think that holds true for most people. Having a dog uplifts a person's spirit. Cats, not so much (probably the other way around, IMHO).
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    We can speculate endlessly about what makes people happier, but the report has actual data. The major categories they discuss are sharing meals with others, living with others, social connections, prosocial behavior, trusting others, and giving. (Nothing about dogs. Or cats, which I much prefer.)
  • Does Denmark still have an appalling suicide rate? I have a feeling at one time it was topping this list, yet had the worst suicide rate in Europe, which takes some explaining.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Does Denmark still have an appalling suicide rate? I have a feeling at one time it was topping this list, yet had the worst suicide rate in Europe, which takes some explaining.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
  • Ruth wrote: »
    Does Denmark still have an appalling suicide rate? I have a feeling at one time it was topping this list, yet had the worst suicide rate in Europe, which takes some explaining.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

    Thank you, Ruth. It looks as though Greenland is skewing the figures for Denmark. The difference is gobsmacking.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    The article wiki on suicide rates also appears quite dated. The most recent date on the survey suggests it was published around 2003. Thats a full generation ago.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    The article wiki on suicide rates also appears quite dated. The most recent date on the survey suggests it was published around 2003. Thats a full generation ago.

    Look again. The long list of countries is from the WHO in 2019. The global suicide rate discussed in the opening is from 2021 data. Other sections refer to a 2024 WHO report.
  • Something that might be skewing suicide rates is available sunshine--I notice that equatorial countries seem to do much better in terms of suicide rates overall. If I were studying suicide prevention, I'd go looking for the more polar countries that are nevertheless doing well at keeping their rates down, and figure out what they're doing right.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    The article wiki on suicide rates also appears quite dated. The most recent date on the survey suggests it was published around 2003. Thats a full generation ago.

    Look again. The long list of countries is from the WHO in 2019. The global suicide rate discussed in the opening is from 2021 data. Other sections refer to a 2024 WHO report.

    Little comment at the top of the chart:

    This section needs to be updated. Please help update this article to reflect recent events or newly available information. (February 2025)
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Something that might be skewing suicide rates is available sunshine--I notice that equatorial countries seem to do much better in terms of suicide rates overall. If I were studying suicide prevention, I'd go looking for the more polar countries that are nevertheless doing well at keeping their rates down, and figure out what they're doing right.

    Notice how the polar countries have social democratic governments.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    We can speculate endlessly about what makes people happier, but the report has actual data. The major categories they discuss are sharing meals with others, living with others, social connections, prosocial behavior, trusting others, and giving. (Nothing about dogs. Or cats, which I much prefer.)

    While I agree with the insights of the happiness article, there might also be other factors that impact the happiness of people the article did not consider. Owning a pet does help, though dogs are much better than cats.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    The article wiki on suicide rates also appears quite dated. The most recent date on the survey suggests it was published around 2003. Thats a full generation ago.

    Look again. The long list of countries is from the WHO in 2019. The global suicide rate discussed in the opening is from 2021 data. Other sections refer to a 2024 WHO report.

    Little comment at the top of the chart:

    This section needs to be updated. Please help update this article to reflect recent events or newly available information. (February 2025)

    This doesn't support your claim that the data is more than 20 years out of date.
  • RockyRogerRockyRoger Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    We can speculate endlessly about what makes people happier, but the report has actual data. The major categories they discuss are sharing meals with others, living with others, social connections, prosocial behavior, trusting others, and giving. (Nothing about dogs. Or cats, which I much prefer.)

    While I agree with the insights of the happiness article, there might also be other factors that impact the happiness of people the article did not consider. Owning a pet does help, though dogs are much better than cats.

    Is there any indication having a faith helps? Oh, and why (oh why) are dogs better than cats?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    The article wiki on suicide rates also appears quite dated. The most recent date on the survey suggests it was published around 2003. Thats a full generation ago.

    Look again. The long list of countries is from the WHO in 2019. The global suicide rate discussed in the opening is from 2021 data. Other sections refer to a 2024 WHO report.

    Little comment at the top of the chart:

    This section needs to be updated. Please help update this article to reflect recent events or newly available information. (February 2025)

    This doesn't support your claim that the data is more than 20 years out of date.

    My main concern was that it was out of date, not how old it was.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    RockyRoger wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    We can speculate endlessly about what makes people happier, but the report has actual data. The major categories they discuss are sharing meals with others, living with others, social connections, prosocial behavior, trusting others, and giving. (Nothing about dogs. Or cats, which I much prefer.)

    While I agree with the insights of the happiness article, there might also be other factors that impact the happiness of people the article did not consider. Owning a pet does help, though dogs are much better than cats.

    Is there any indication having a faith helps? Oh, and why (oh why) are dogs better than cats?

    I have had cats and I have had dogs. Dogs can be trained and they know who is in charge. Cats think they are in charge
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Something that might be skewing suicide rates is available sunshine--I notice that equatorial countries seem to do much better in terms of suicide rates overall. If I were studying suicide prevention, I'd go looking for the more polar countries that are nevertheless doing well at keeping their rates down, and figure out what they're doing right.

    Notice how the polar countries have social democratic governments.

    They also tend to be very monocultural - something which seems to correlate not just with social democratic government but with social connections, prosocial behavior, trusting others, and giving (which, as Ruth pointed out, are the things the survey itself highlighted).

    Correlation is not causation, of course, nor does monoculturality necessarily imply or require being monoethnic.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Telford wrote: »
    RockyRoger wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    We can speculate endlessly about what makes people happier, but the report has actual data. The major categories they discuss are sharing meals with others, living with others, social connections, prosocial behavior, trusting others, and giving. (Nothing about dogs. Or cats, which I much prefer.)

    While I agree with the insights of the happiness article, there might also be other factors that impact the happiness of people the article did not consider. Owning a pet does help, though dogs are much better than cats.

    Is there any indication having a faith helps? Oh, and why (oh why) are dogs better than cats?

    I have had cats and I have had dogs. Dogs can be trained and they know who is in charge. Cats think they are in charge

    Think. Know, more likely.

  • RockyRogerRockyRoger Shipmate
    Tangent alert:
    because you feed them, dogs think you are God; because you feed them, cats think they are god.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    Thanks @Boogie.

    la vie en rouge, Purgatory host
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Something that might be skewing suicide rates is available sunshine--I notice that equatorial countries seem to do much better in terms of suicide rates overall. If I were studying suicide prevention, I'd go looking for the more polar countries that are nevertheless doing well at keeping their rates down, and figure out what they're doing right.

    Notice how the polar countries have social democratic governments.

    They also tend to be very monocultural - something which seems to correlate not just with social democratic government

    Denmark is within a couple of percentage points of being as monocultural as the UK. There's an easier measure, the level of social democracy in Western Europe is largely a factor of threat from the Warsaw Pact.
    with social connections

    There isn't really a clear picture here; Sweden has higher levels of loneliness, Denmark and Finland are a bit better, but Netherlands, Austria and the Czech Republic report lower levels of loneliness than all of them.

    https://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/handle/JRC133351
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    edited March 25
    According to our friend in Helsinki "Finnish people are the happiest’ is a load of bunk."

    That said, their lives look pretty good, although most of what I'm seeing is photos of a cute toddler doing cute toddler stuff.

    They have always had occasional practice air-raid sirens, but currently they have them monthly. I'd find that unnerving, but E says that although the need for increased frequency is worrying, the sirens themselves are no more alarming than a fire drill here.
  • According to our friend in Helsinki "Finnish people are the happiest’ is a load of bunk."

    I used to have regular contact with a bunch of Finns through my work, visits etc. I might have thought that the Finns might be happiest, but as a visitor it might be hard to detect it!
  • rhubarbrhubarb Shipmate
    It all rests on what people mean by happiness.
  • According to our friend in Helsinki "Finnish people are the happiest’ is a load of bunk."

    That said, their lives look pretty good, although most of what I'm seeing is photos of a cute toddler doing cute toddler stuff.

    They have always had occasional practice air-raid sirens, but currently they have them monthly. I'd find that unnerving, but E says that although the need for increased frequency is worrying, the sirens themselves are no more alarming than a fire drill here.

    If you go to Portsmouth you can still experience a weekly air raid siren test. I guess Devonport is the same.

    Only covers the dockyard (and is more of a security alarm these days), but it is done with air raid sirens and echoes across the city.

    I remember Birmingham’s last city-wide air raid siren test. Summer of 1993, in the middle of a maths exam.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    rhubarb wrote: »
    It all rests on what people mean by happiness.
    Happiest also rests on “compared to whom?”


  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    Someone once said "Happiness often depends on happenstance." Not sure that's the healthiest of dispositions.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Something that might be skewing suicide rates is available sunshine--I notice that equatorial countries seem to do much better in terms of suicide rates overall. If I were studying suicide prevention, I'd go looking for the more polar countries that are nevertheless doing well at keeping their rates down, and figure out what they're doing right.

    Notice how the polar countries have social democratic governments.

    They also tend to be very monocultural - something which seems to correlate not just with social democratic government but with social connections, prosocial behavior, trusting others, and giving (which, as Ruth pointed out, are the things the survey itself highlighted).

    Outsiders might judge them to be monocultural. They might not think so. The Sami can be found in several countries, Norway has dialectic divides which they think is important, Finland has significant Swedish and Orthodox minorities, and all have immigrant populations in recent years, of varying degrees of integration.

    I only know Iceland in depth from a few visits over the years, but I am reluctant to compare happiness indicators....
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    It also seems the happiest counties have people who are closest to nature. Finland, for instance, is known for its abundant forests, lakes and outdoor lifestyle. Sweden also encourages its people to enjoy the out of doors.
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