Is Distance Learning a good alternative to going to Uni

HugalHugal Shipmate
I didn’t do traditional university. I got a bunch of catering qualifications at further education level. In my late 20s/early 30s I did the Open University. I really enjoyed it and came away with an Honours degree in Humanities with Lit. Should we be encouraging more students into distance learning. Do the none academic things about Uni mean as much as the academic?

Comments

  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    I went to university at 18, and the non-academic side was of huge benefit. It meant that I learned to live independently in a gradual manner (catered halls in first year, self-catering university flat in second year, rented flat for third and fourth years). My husband was in the same situation.

    I did my second undergraduate degree through the Open University. I started when I was 8 1/2 months pregnant with my first child and it was brilliant; the flexibility was all important when I was juggling a new baby, then a toddler, then a second baby. I think that the first year of my son's life was one of the happiest of my life, due to the combination of gorgeous baby and studying fascinating subjects.

    We were very keen that both of our children should go away to University at 18, for the same combination of independence and support that we felt had been so beneficial to us.

  • I never had the opportunity to go to a traditional university either, and did my first OU degree part time in my 20s/30s while working full time as a nurse. I now have 2 OU bachelor degrees, an OU EdD and I am currently doing my second OU masters. I love distance learning and have lectured in a distance learning university for nearly 20 years (hence my ability to study endlessly).
    Whether it is a good alternative depends on the student; some thrive in distance learning while others would be better off in a more traditional environment. But lots of students have no choice because of their personal circumstances. The majority of my students are mature working class women with families, many of whom never went to college for various reasons. They study around their work, caring responsibilities, disabilities, etc. But it is not easy, many students drop out, especially those with mental health challenges (the subject of my doctorate - I dropped out of my first OU degree during a mental health crisis when I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder). It requires determination and a clear end goal is helpful for motivation when it gets hard.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    I stated university at 17 and have been hanging around universities for 44 years. I think on campus study is excellent for traditional ages students and gives them a chance to develop as per NEQ's comments above. In my early 50s, I completed a certificate program via distance education. It was the perfect option for me at that stage of my life and career.
  • I think this is really horses for courses - I went to university at 18, then the navy, then back to university for my masters. I know people who have started later and done it through the OU or actually three years full-time as a mature student.

    I don’t think there’s any harm in letting young people know that they could do it distance learning as an option, but I’m unsure about ‘encouraging’ it (as separate to encouraging learning in general, by whatever route suits - including vocational/FE/HE - which should always be encouraged to any and all that might benefit from it).
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Hugal wrote: »
    Do the none academic things about Uni mean as much as the academic?

    I think they can do, additionally don't underestimate the benefits of studying with a cohort of others who you can discuss material with, especially when you are straight out of school and haven't yet learnt how to learn.

    I've done both, and given the choice I'd have preferred some of the distance learning I've done to have been in person - it would have cut the time it took to master the material. It really seems to be subject dependent.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    I didn’t do traditional university. I got a bunch of catering qualifications at further education level. In my late 20s/early 30s I did the Open University. I really enjoyed it and came away with an Honours degree in Humanities with Lit. Should we be encouraging more students into distance learning. Do the none academic things about Uni mean as much as the academic?

    I think different things will benefit different people. I'll also note that "traditional uni" vs distance learning aren't the only options: there are plenty of places where living at home with your parents and attending the local tertiary institution is a viable option. There's also a significant difference in the sort of experience you'll get in different kinds of institution. In the US, for example, being a student at a small liberal arts college is quite different from attending the massive party school, and different people will thrive in different environments.

    Like @North East Quine, I think I benefited a lot from going away to university, because it forced me to be independent. Had I remained living at home, I'd have done plenty of studying - studying at university wasn't so terribly different from studying at school - but I'd have followed the path of least resistance and just eaten the family meals that my mother would undoubtedly have kept making, just relied on all the fabric and facilities of my house being there, and generally not had any need to develop self-reliance.

    Eldest Cnihtlet is away at college more than 1200 miles away. She's flourishing there - and the fact that she has to fly there with only the stuff she can carry, and can't pop home for the weekend has been good for her.

    I'm expecting #2 to stay living at home. They're different people, and have different needs and challenges.
  • HarryCHHarryCH Shipmate
    I think there are skills and insights which would be difficult to learn via distance learning, such as lab chemistry, public speaking, sign language, preparing a souffle, knitting, playing an instrument in an orchestra, shooting pool, acting, etc. I think some subjects are rarely taught at all on line.
  • Like everybody else, I think it depends on the person. I was glad to get out of the house and away from abuse (I was the oldest, and yet the last to leave home at age 18). And I certainly met a huge array of very interesting people, and had to cope with some very odd situations on my own, as did my son when he went away to school.
    But then, distance learning allows you to fit your study around your life rather than the opposite--and that can be good if you have commitments you can't or won't duck, like caregiving, or if you have interests that a standard residential university isn't likely to provide for you, all in one place. I scoured California for a university that provided BOTH Greek and Hebrew, and it came down to a single school--though UCI told me later they would have found an independent study tutor for me, if I'd applied. But I didn't know, and I'm glad I didn't, as I met Mr. Lamb at the school I did attend. And I much prefer to study languages with a large group, anyway.
  • HeavenlyannieHeavenlyannie Shipmate
    edited March 25
    HarryCH wrote: »
    I think there are skills and insights which would be difficult to learn via distance learning, such as lab chemistry, public speaking, sign language, preparing a souffle, knitting, playing an instrument in an orchestra, shooting pool, acting, etc. I think some subjects are rarely taught at all on line.
    Lots of people learn sign language, baking and knitting online.
    Not everything can be studied online but there is a surprising range of subjects available. The Open University offers degrees in nursing and social work, for instance. The students have placements arranged locally in their own workplaces and do their studies online. Great for students with families who want to continue to earn while studying.
    As for public speaking, distance learning doctorate students regularly present online and have opportunities to do so in person. I lecture online every week and regularly present at online academic conferences. I am a very experienced public speaker.

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Hugal wrote: »
    Should we be encouraging more students into distance learning.
    I think we should be encouraging people to explore all options and follow what they think is the best path for them.

    Do the none academic things about Uni mean as much as the academic?
    As others have said, there is no one answer. It depends on the person and in that person’s needs.


  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    I'm very much an 'it depends'. Like Lambchopped, university got me out of an abusive situation as a young person and there I found my people - along with a lot of other things.

    As an adult with a bunch of disabilities I think I'd want at least something hybrid where I could follow most things remotely and only turn up occasionally in person to get to know other people.

    Academic conferences and seminars with guest speakers are things that very much should be hybrid though - as it makes a huge difference for accessibility to have that digital option.
  • I don't know whether any UK readers have kids or grandkids considering university in an area where the 'degree apprenticeship' scheme operates - but in my corner of HE (engineering) it is working out surprisingly well. Hard work for the student - a five year undergrad degree alongside a day-release job, leading to graduation without liability for 'loan' (which behaves as a graduate tax) repayments and with work experience built in. I spent last week on a residential with some of them (50 /50 with the FT undergrads) and they were mostly excellent - well engaged and still keen, a year or two in. My kids wanted a full-on university life, so opted for paying more tax until they are age 62. Oh well!
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited March 31
    There are a few in Chemistry (LBLet#2's subject) but rarer than rocking horse shite and therefore competition is intense. So he's going for a regular degree.

    I think they're an excellent idea but there needs to be far, far more of them. And given the fact LBLet#1 couldn't find an industrial placement for his industry year and had to go straight into year 3 of his degree (computer science) I conclude that British industry and business wants people with skills but is not particularly interested in doing anything to train people in those skills.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I conclude that British industry and business wants people with skills but is not particularly interested in doing anything to train people in those skills.

    This, I think, bears repeating. I think it's this problem that the apprenticeship levy was aimed at, but I suspect it would need something with a considerably more clout in both carrot and stick to get firms out of the "5 years experience plus a degree" trap so many are in.
  • I agree with you both. There is also a 'scale' problem - at the moment I work in a civils group and construction still supports some big companies in the UK with the scale to take on a lot of people and funding to train them (last week we were hosted by the CITB, for example). In other manufacturing areas with which I am familiar (aero-mech and electronics) there are way more SMEs than there used to be and (outside of defence) way fewer large companies with training departments / budgets.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    There is more to University than the qualifications you get. There is a whole bunch of life-skills to be gained by getting away from Mum's apron strings.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    There is more to University than the qualifications you get. There is a whole bunch of life-skills to be gained by getting away from Mum's apron strings.

    Which is fantastic until you come out, sign on and have to go back home because you can't afford to live independently
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    There is more to University than the qualifications you get. There is a whole bunch of life-skills to be gained by getting away from Mum's apron strings.

    Which is fantastic until you come out, sign on and have to go back home because you can't afford to live independently

    You still have those skills.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    There is more to University than the qualifications you get. There is a whole bunch of life-skills to be gained by getting away from Mum's apron strings.

    Which is fantastic until you come out, sign on and have to go back home because you can't afford to live independently

    You still have those skills.

    What skills are you referring to?
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Transferable soft skills. Almost every role I have had working in PSE is not directly related to my education in history. I use transferable skills from that and my education to degree.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited March 31
    Caissa wrote: »
    Transferable soft skills. Almost every role I have had working in PSE is not directly related to my education in history. I use transferable skills from that and my education to degree.

    Sorry to push this further - can you put names to these skills? Just saying "soft skills" conveys very little meaning to me. I need precision to know what we're talking about.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    edited March 31
    critical thinking, public speaking, persuasive writing, working to deadlines, working in groups, working alone etc.

    Google soft skills and you will find many lists such as this one: https://resources.workable.com/hr-terms/what-are-soft-skills
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Caissa wrote: »
    critical thinking, public speaking, persuasive writing, working to deadlines, working in groups, working alone etc.

    Google soft skills and you will find many lists such as this one: https://resources.workable.com/hr-terms/what-are-soft-skills

    I gained those skills after, not at, university, to be honest.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Caissa wrote: »
    critical thinking, public speaking, persuasive writing, working to deadlines, working in groups, working alone etc.

    I don't get the impression that those were the kinds of skills @Alan29 was thinking of, but rather the skills necessary to live independently (essentially self care).
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Caissa wrote: »
    critical thinking, public speaking, persuasive writing, working to deadlines, working in groups, working alone etc.

    I don't get the impression that those were the kinds of skills @Alan29 was thinking of, but rather the skills necessary to live independently (essentially self care).

    Those self care skills - do we learn them at University simply because that's the first time most of us aren't living at home, and if we didn't go we'd learn them just the same when we did finally leave home?
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    I learned the self-care skills in the military reserves. (Age 16-19)
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Caissa wrote: »
    critical thinking, public speaking, persuasive writing, working to deadlines, working in groups, working alone etc.

    I don't get the impression that those were the kinds of skills @Alan29 was thinking of, but rather the skills necessary to live independently (essentially self care).

    Those self care skills - do we learn them at University simply because that's the first time most of us aren't living at home, and if we didn't go we'd learn them just the same when we did finally leave home?

    I can't speak for Alan, but I think that's true to a point; though University can be a more forgiving environment for learning some of those than your first job.
  • HeavenlyannieHeavenlyannie Shipmate
    edited March 31
    I learnt to cook and clean as a child, a consequence of being the only girl still at home with 4 brothers (I wonder why my 3 older sisters left). I left home at 18 to live with my boyfriend and I had been working in a care home for a year by then so university isn’t the only way to learn those life skills. But the past is a different country; I was expected to babysit, feed and put to bed my sister’s 3 children, including a toddler, when I was only 13 while she worked in a chip shop from 4pm til midnight Friday and Saturday night. I already had life skills in abundance by the time I left home.

    I was surprised that so many of my two sons’ friends at uni (male and female) did not know how to even cook pasta, let alone how to prepare full meals from scratch. My sons had to shop and cook once a week before leaving home for uni.
  • PuzzlerPuzzler Shipmate
    I have four young adult (aged 17-23) grandchildren who all went to state grammar schools, involving a fair journey each day. The oldest went on to a college but lived at home whilst gaining his degree in animal welfare. He still lives at home, now doing an apprenticeship in something related to horses, working on the job. The next one began a degree apprenticeship in retail management, mostly living at home, but messed up. He is now working in two jobs, living independently and studying online for a degree.
    His cousin, after a gap year, turned down a uni place to start a coveted engineering degree apprenticeship with BMW, living away from home, though she returns home most weekends. She gained the most confidence and resilience from solo travel during her gap year. A lot of her coursework is completed online as well as working at the plant. The youngest, still at school, is keeping his options open, looking at both uni and apprenticeships.
    All four are multi-skilled in ways I certainly wasn’t at their age and all very articulate, knowledgable, capable and self-aware. Doing D of E, shuttling between two homes, being expected to cook once a week, are some of the ways they have developed their skills and confidence.
    I went away to a traditional university, where I gradually learned to spread my wings after a very sheltered upbringing. I am glad that this generation has so many more varied opportunities.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Caissa wrote: »
    critical thinking, public speaking, persuasive writing, working to deadlines, working in groups, working alone etc.

    I don't get the impression that those were the kinds of skills @Alan29 was thinking of, but rather the skills necessary to live independently (essentially self care).

    All those skills are included.
    We told our own kids that the operative word in "going to university" is the first one. And they all did.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Caissa wrote: »
    critical thinking, public speaking, persuasive writing, working to deadlines, working in groups, working alone etc.

    I don't get the impression that those were the kinds of skills @Alan29 was thinking of, but rather the skills necessary to live independently (essentially self care).

    All those skills are included.
    We told our own kids that the operative word in "going to university" is the first one. And they all did.

    Right, but the skills referred to by Caissa don’t require leaving home to learn.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Going to university does not require leaving home. I did my first two years living at home and my next 11 living away from home. Staying home for the first year helped me to develop my skills on the academic side while not having to worry about the non-academic skills one develops by going away for pse. I had a solid academic grounding as a result before I had to stat developing the life skills required of a young adult living away from home.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Caissa wrote: »
    Going to university does not require leaving home.

    Yes, but both you and Alan were replying to a post by Karl talking about the case where people did leave home to study:

    https://forums.shipoffools.com/discussion/comment/725281/#Comment_725281

  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Yes, although the title seems to setup a false dual choice between going away to university vs. staying home to study vi distance learning. There is a third alternative.
  • I was surprised that so many of my two sons’ friends at uni (male and female) did not know how to even cook pasta, let alone how to prepare full meals from scratch. My sons had to shop and cook once a week before leaving home for uni.

    I hadn't done much in the way of solo cooking before going to university, although I had plenty of experience as vegetable chopper, washer-upper, and general kitchen minion. What I had was mostly a certain knowledge that cooking could be done, plus a basic cookbook and the ability to read.

    IME, knowing that something can be done is a large part of the battle. If you know that, for example, changing a car headlamp bulb is a normal thing for people to do, then it's not too much work to look up what kind of bulb your particular car requires, and look up the steps required, and then do it. If you don't have an idea that that might be possible, perhaps you just take your car to the garage and say "my headlight stopped working".
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I was surprised that so many of my two sons’ friends at uni (male and female) did not know how to even cook pasta, let alone how to prepare full meals from scratch. My sons had to shop and cook once a week before leaving home for uni.

    I hadn't done much in the way of solo cooking before going to university, although I had plenty of experience as vegetable chopper, washer-upper, and general kitchen minion. What I had was mostly a certain knowledge that cooking could be done, plus a basic cookbook and the ability to read.

    IME, knowing that something can be done is a large part of the battle. If you know that, for example, changing a car headlamp bulb is a normal thing for people to do, then it's not too much work to look up what kind of bulb your particular car requires, and look up the steps required, and then do it. If you don't have an idea that that might be possible, perhaps you just take your car to the garage and say "my headlight stopped working".

    I remember when headlight bulbs went from one category to the other. One of my pet peeves is car designers making it harder and harder to do basic things like that.

    Me, I'm surprised how many regular cyclists don't realise that indexing gears, recabling, puncture repairs, chain, cassette and chainwheel replacements are all pretty easy to do with a few tools.
  • betjemaniacbetjemaniac Shipmate
    I’ve got solid rubber tyres on my racing bike so that deal with one problem…!
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