Rightio. Let's abandon religion altogether. We are clearly wasting our time ...
I suppose the issue boils down to whether we trust the Holy Spirit working through fallible and often venial human beings - which sounds very pious of course.
'We have this treasure in jars of clay ...' sort of thing.
There were certainly prominent women in early Christianity. Some of them have hi-falutin' titles - such as St Nina, Equal To The Apostles, who took the Gospel to Georgia.
But it's a fair cop. They weren't at Nicea or Chalcedon.
But then, there's the old gag that at Vatican 3 the Bishops will bring their wives and at Vatican 4 they'll bring their husbands.
Which doesn't elide a point which has bern well made of course.
Perhaps the Ship will turn into a Recovering Theists club over time.
I suppose the issue boils down to whether we trust the Holy Spirit working through fallible and often venial human beings - which sounds very pious of course.
'We have this treasure in jars of clay ...' sort of thing.
To me the issue boils down to whether we trust the people who claim that the Holy Spirit works through them or even other people. A whole lot of things have purportedly been spirit-led. Are we really to believe that all the popes were the people God wanted leading the Roman Catholic Church? The divine right of kings was fashionable for a while, but the Glorious Revolution put a stop to that. And many people pray every day for guidance -- how often have they subsequently made bad choices that they were sure at the time God was leading them toward?
Don't trust any claims unless they are accompanied by such works as feeding the hungry, visiting prisoners and those in hospital, or other " fruits of the spirit".
Especially disbelieve any that are not the *servants of all" but lord it over others. Unfortunately, the danger of power hungry people occurs in churches as it does in all walks of life.
Ruth nails it when she writes:
To me the issue boils down to whether we trust the people who claim that the Holy Spirit works through them or even other people.
There is a parable like story I heard some years ago. There are a few versions of it.
A monk and a novice were on a journey.
They came to a river ford which was swollen and fast flowing from recent rains.
On reaching the bank a distressed young woman asked for their help to get across.
Immediately the monk lifted her onto his shoulders, waded across, and put her down on the other side. The monk and novice then proceeded on their way.
In the evening at their lodge the novice exclaimed to the monk, "How could you do such a thing?. Her young thighs around your neck. And we have taken a vow not to touch women!"
The monk replied "Oh. Are you still carrying her? I put her down a long time ago".
To my mind, not touching a woman was tradition. Helping someone in distress is Holy Tradition.
There is a parable like story I heard some years ago. There are a few versions of it.
A monk and a novice were on a journey.
They came to a river ford which was swollen and fast flowing from recent rains.
On reaching the bank a distressed young woman asked for their help to get across.
Immediately the monk lifted her onto his shoulders, waded across, and put her down on the other side. The monk and novice then proceeded on their way.
In the evening at their lodge the novice exclaimed to the monk, "How could you do such a thing?. Her young thighs around your neck. And we have taken a vow not to touch women!"
The monk replied "Oh. Are you still carrying her? I put her down a long time ago".
To my mind, not touching a woman was tradition. Helping someone in distress is Holy Tradition.
Comments
I suppose the issue boils down to whether we trust the Holy Spirit working through fallible and often venial human beings - which sounds very pious of course.
'We have this treasure in jars of clay ...' sort of thing.
There were certainly prominent women in early Christianity. Some of them have hi-falutin' titles - such as St Nina, Equal To The Apostles, who took the Gospel to Georgia.
But it's a fair cop. They weren't at Nicea or Chalcedon.
But then, there's the old gag that at Vatican 3 the Bishops will bring their wives and at Vatican 4 they'll bring their husbands.
Which doesn't elide a point which has bern well made of course.
Perhaps the Ship will turn into a Recovering Theists club over time.
To me the issue boils down to whether we trust the people who claim that the Holy Spirit works through them or even other people. A whole lot of things have purportedly been spirit-led. Are we really to believe that all the popes were the people God wanted leading the Roman Catholic Church? The divine right of kings was fashionable for a while, but the Glorious Revolution put a stop to that. And many people pray every day for guidance -- how often have they subsequently made bad choices that they were sure at the time God was leading them toward?
Don't trust any claims unless they are accompanied by such works as feeding the hungry, visiting prisoners and those in hospital, or other " fruits of the spirit".
Especially disbelieve any that are not the *servants of all" but lord it over others. Unfortunately, the danger of power hungry people occurs in churches as it does in all walks of life.
Are any of us 100% on the ball with the fruits of the Spirit and the works of service you mention?
It's work in progress with all of us.
I'm reminded of the story of the Desert Father - and yes, there were Desert Mothers - who was heard crying out to God for mercy on his deathbed.
His brother monks were perturbed. Surely the Abba was a man of exemplary piety?
When they asked him why he was doing this, he replied, 'My brothers, I have not even begun to repent ...'
To me the issue boils down to whether we trust the people who claim that the Holy Spirit works through them or even other people.
My answer is "no".
Nobody by the sounds of it.
That's like what Matthew has Jesus saying about the Pharisees. "Do what they say, but not what they do." ( Paraphrase)
To my mind, not touching a woman was tradition. Helping someone in distress is Holy Tradition.
Holy Tradition would agree.
Yes, and very good it is too.
Christ us Risen! Happy Easter everyone!