Perhaps I'm widening the thread here? The thought which has occurred to me is based on the understanding that prophetic voices speak the truth to power. But I think we live in an era of fractured truth. Perhaps prophetic voices stand the test of time? Voices which resonated with some of us when first we heard them continue to resonate years after. Our current time is very noisy, with lots of competing voices claiming to assert different understandings of truth.
I know what I hope will survive. I know who has spoken truth to me and whose voices still resonate with me. And I think they say things which will abide. I may be naive in continuing to believe "the truth will out". But I hope I'm right! Not just for me. Fractured truth is dangerous to everyone.
Perhaps I'm widening the thread here? The thought which has occurred to me is based on the understanding that prophetic voices speak the truth to power. But I think we live in an era of fractured truth. Perhaps prophetic voices stand the test of time? Voices which resonated with some of us when first we heard them continue to resonate years after. Our current time is very noisy, with lots of competing voices claiming to assert different understandings of truth.
I know what I hope will survive. I know who has spoken truth to me and whose voices still resonate with me. And I think they say things which will abide. I may be naive in continuing to believe "the truth will out". But I hope I'm right! Not just for me. Fractured truth is dangerous to everyone.
I do think with the internet, it's a lot harder for Big Players to be considered The Voice of...whatever. Even in pop culture, Taylor Swift is the only one I can think of, and I know she inspires a lot of contempt in some circles.
But in politics, especially on the left, there doesn't seem to be a lot of "rally around the hero" at the moment. We all try to do the best we can on our own and kinda move around like a blob without a central standard.
Perhaps I'm widening the thread here? The thought which has occurred to me is based on the understanding that prophetic voices speak the truth to power. But I think we live in an era of fractured truth. Perhaps prophetic voices stand the test of time? Voices which resonated with some of us when first we heard them continue to resonate years after. Our current time is very noisy, with lots of competing voices claiming to assert different understandings of truth.
I know what I hope will survive. I know who has spoken truth to me and whose voices still resonate with me. And I think they say things which will abide. I may be naive in continuing to believe "the truth will out". But I hope I'm right! Not just for me. Fractured truth is dangerous to everyone.
I do think with the internet, it's a lot harder for Big Players to be considered The Voice of...whatever.
Even prior to/outside the internet, media consolidation makes it harder to get your own message out, with fewer mass market outlets willing to run messages outside consensus.
For a recent example Greta Thunberg was regularly in the press until she started to advocate for Palestine.
Perhaps I'm widening the thread here? The thought which has occurred to me is based on the understanding that prophetic voices speak the truth to power. But I think we live in an era of fractured truth. Perhaps prophetic voices stand the test of time? Voices which resonated with some of us when first we heard them continue to resonate years after. Our current time is very noisy, with lots of competing voices claiming to assert different understandings of truth.
I know what I hope will survive. I know who has spoken truth to me and whose voices still resonate with me. And I think they say things which will abide. I may be naive in continuing to believe "the truth will out". But I hope I'm right! Not just for me. Fractured truth is dangerous to everyone.
I do think with the internet, it's a lot harder for Big Players to be considered The Voice of...whatever.
Even prior to/outside the internet, media consolidation makes it harder to get your own message out, with fewer mass market outlets willing to run messages outside consensus.
For a recent example Greta Thunberg was regularly in the press until she started to advocate for Palestine.
Right, in the past it was a competition among a small collection of very large independent news broadcasters that were somewhat bound by laws enforcing some kind of fairness.
And now we have increasingly monopolized news outlets on one hand and absolute chaos on the other, and the chaos is probably getting bought out and monetized as we speak.
This reminds me of how anarchism eventually becomes authoritarianism because if there isn't a regulatory body keeping the bullies from taking over, they'll make one for themselves.
And now we have increasingly monopolized news outlets on one hand and absolute chaos on the other, and the chaos is probably getting bought out and monetized as we speak.
Though I'd very much disagree that the current internet represents chaos; most people's experience of it is a series of walled gardens - Twitter and Bsky are minority sports in the extreme (and both are run/owned by billionaires with their own agendas).
If it's a comment on the kind of things people pick up on Facebook, well, that's another walled garden, and the content is the way it is because it suits the owners (and is also not a million miles away from the kind of thing that's broadcast).
Our Healing Eucharist yesterday featured Bonhoeffer and his/our suffering. Yesterday was of course the anniversary of his execution. We had one of his poems made into a hymn. Both Mrs RR and I were deeply moved. So his legacy still lives.
Our Healing Eucharist yesterday featured Bonhoeffer and his/our suffering. Yesterday was of course the anniversary of his execution. We had one of his poems made into a hymn. Both Mrs RR and I were deeply moved. So his legacy still lives.
Our Healing Eucharist yesterday featured Bonhoeffer and his/our suffering. Yesterday was of course the anniversary of his execution. We had one of his poems made into a hymn. Both Mrs RR and I were deeply moved. So his legacy still lives.
Can you tell us which poem?
Father Paul directed us to the version in our Hymnal. See:
The actual poem he wrote the hymn is derived from is:
With every power for good to stay and guide me,
comforted and inspired beyond all fear,
I’ll live these days with you in thought beside me,
and pass, with you, into the coming year.
The old year still torments our hearts, unhastening:
the long days of our sorrow still endure.
Father, grant to the soul thou hast been chastening
that thou hast promised—the healing and the cure.
Should it be ours to drain the cup of grieving
even to the dregs of pain, at thy command,
we will not falter, thankfully receiving
all that is given by thy loving hand.
But, should it be thy will once more to release us
to life’s enjoyment and its good sunshine,
that we’ve learned from sorrow shall increase us
and all our life be dedicate as thine.
Today, let candles shed their radiant greeting:
lo, on our darkness are they not thy light,
leading us haply to our longed-for meeting?
Thou canst illumine e’en our darkest night.
When now the silence deepens for our harkening,
grant we may hear thy children’s voices raise
from all the unseen world around us darkening,
their universal paean, in thy praise.
While all the powers of Good aid and attend us,
boldly we’ll face the future, be it what may.
At even, and at morn, God will befriend us,
and oh, most surely each new year’s day!
Our Healing Eucharist yesterday featured Bonhoeffer and his/our suffering. Yesterday was of course the anniversary of his execution. We had one of his poems made into a hymn. Both Mrs RR and I were deeply moved. So his legacy still lives.
Can you tell us which poem?
Father Paul directed us to the version in our Hymnal. See:
The actual poem he wrote the hymn is derived from is:
With every power for good to stay and guide me, . . . .
Just to quibble a little, that’s a standard English translation of the poem he wrote. The original text, Von guten Mächten treu und still umgebe, can be found here (though your browser may try to translate it to English).
Perhaps I'm widening the thread here? The thought which has occurred to me is based on the understanding that prophetic voices speak the truth to power. But I think we live in an era of fractured truth. Perhaps prophetic voices stand the test of time? Voices which resonated with some of us when first we heard them continue to resonate years after. Our current time is very noisy, with lots of competing voices claiming to assert different understandings of truth.
I know what I hope will survive. I know who has spoken truth to me and whose voices still resonate with me. And I think they say things which will abide. I may be naive in continuing to believe "the truth will out". But I hope I'm right! Not just for me. Fractured truth is dangerous to everyone.
I do think with the internet, it's a lot harder for Big Players to be considered The Voice of...whatever. Even in pop culture, Taylor Swift is the only one I can think of, and I know she inspires a lot of contempt in some circles.
But in politics, especially on the left, there doesn't seem to be a lot of "rally around the hero" at the moment. We all try to do the best we can on our own and kinda move around like a blob without a central standard.
I'm a little curious as to what you infer Taylor Swift's message to be or have been. My fuzzy recollection is that she was vilified by the Right preemptively, before she'd really said or done anything, at least politically. MAGA was fearful of her. I mean, unless you're evaluating her lyrics as "a voice," I'm not really sure what you mean by her.
I think the Left is very cautious about any hint of a cult of personality developing around one of its more eloquent representatives. So much of the US, and world, really, has been laboring under the caustic cult of Trump's personality, as well as those of his surrogates and imitators. I think the Left does not want to reciprocate at all. It never did re: Rush Limbaugh, for example.
And I think you're right that liberationism had a moment in the 1960s. My current read is that at least in Latin America it's being supplanted by evangelical prosperity gospel. People just want to get rich. It's all rather sad.
Getting rich is how you get liberated in today's society. You're only as free as you can afford to be.
And I think you're right that liberationism had a moment in the 1960s. My current read is that at least in Latin America it's being supplanted by evangelical prosperity gospel. People just want to get rich. It's all rather sad.
Getting rich is how you get liberated in today's society. You're only as free as you can afford to be.
I'm a little curious as to what you infer Taylor Swift's message to be or have been. My fuzzy recollection is that she was vilified by the Right preemptively, before she'd really said or done anything, at least politically. MAGA was fearful of her. I mean, unless you're evaluating her lyrics as "a voice," I'm not really sure what you mean by her.
I'm not a Swiftie, but I am generally aware of her. And I think, like some performing artists, her voice, her lyrics, and her public persona are kind of a package deal.
Thoughts on right wing reactions, one thing is that she started off as a country singer and then made it as a general pop star, which is going to make the country music scene a little salty. And that's a scene that trends conservative in America, to the extent that otherwise-countrified artists label themselves "Americana" to avoid the genre's soiled reputation. I think there's always a little resentment for small town kids who make it big and don't act appropriately deferential to their roots. Here's a pretty song about that experience from a case study.
Another thing is she's a woman who is successful on her own terms. I think that in itself is enough to scare a lot of conservatives who are threatened by the culture of independent women. And in some circles, merely being a successful woman without a man to tell you what to do is enough to intimidate people. Britney Spears, by contrast was infamously under her daddy's thumb, which I think made her more acceptable to them even if her songs were blatantly lascivious.
And yes, for a songwriter, your song lyrics are definitely part of your voice. I think there might have been a time when some folks were trying to appropriate her as one of their own, and she avoided taking sides, and eventually she performed put this little ditty, which is about as subtle as a warning shot.
Again, I'm not a Swiftie, I don't follow her career very closely. I'm not an expert on her songwriting. But looking at the general patterns of her career, it doesn't surprise me that conservatives tend to want to throw things at her. They don't like her kind.
I think the Left is very cautious about any hint of a cult of personality developing around one of its more eloquent representatives. So much of the US, and world, really, has been laboring under the caustic cult of Trump's personality, as well as those of his surrogates and imitators. I think the Left does not want to reciprocate at all. It never did re: Rush Limbaugh, for example.
Yep. that's a thing. I think we have attachment disorder after being betrayed by too many of our would-be leaders, or watching them get publicly pilloried, which might be worse. There's also a trend toward democracy and consensus-building, which leans against leaders and centralized figures. It can be a strength sometimes, but it can also be a weakness.
Also, having watched the speed with which we form circular firing squads, I can understand why there's lot of trepidation around stepping up. High expectations are easy to fail, and we still carry them.
That's what I've heard. He was quite unpopular when he died, and it took a few decades for him to become the hero we all learned he was in grade school.
That strikes me as an overstatement or over generalization. Different segments of American society viewed him differently, some more positively and some less so, when he died. And don’t underestimate the degree to which those opposed to him and to the Civil Rights Movement actively tried to undermine his public image and his support.
I’m certainly not saying he was without flaws. We all are. But it’s just not as simple as “he was quite unpopular when he died.” Whether that was true would completely depend on who you asked.
Polling around the time of King's death indicated that he was the most hated man in America when he died. That's usually what we mean when we discuss whether someone is popular or not; how widespread public support or condemnation of them is. It doesn't really tell us much to say that people who supported MLK's actions supported MLK's actions or that some generally despised person still has some supporters. So yes, "those opposed to him and to the Civil Rights Movement actively tried to undermine his public image", but at the time of his death "those opposed to him and to the Civil Rights Movement" significantly outnumbered his supporters.
He makes three points at the end from the Confessing Church experience
That natural theology in all forms is a grave danger and makes one corruptible by ideologies of the World. Only a theology that starts with Christ will be able to truely critique the world.
That the statement that Christ is Lord, has implications for church-state relationships and we must not assume that the Church and state are two separate spheres that do not interact.
That the dignity of all humanity for Christians is derived from the humanity of Christ. He particularly applies this to Racism but I think it could be applied to a whole lot of other issues.
He makes three points at the end from the Confessing Church experience
That natural theology in all forms is a grave danger and makes one corruptible by ideologies of the World. Only a theology that starts with Christ will be able to truely critique the world.
That the statement that Christ is Lord, has implications for church-state relationships and we must not assume that the Church and state are two separate spheres that do not interact.
That the dignity of all humanity for Christians is derived from the humanity of Christ. He particularly applies this to Racism but I think it could be applied to a whole lot of other issues.
Thank you!
I think I'm on the same page. I've learned to hate the way we use the word "natural," because there is nothing in the world that isn't affected by us the second we're aware of it. Church and state are always interacting, yet must never be confused. I would agree with the third, as a Christian, but I think some Christians may warp it to bad ends; and along those lines, I can completely understand why non-Christians would find that phrasing profoundly uncomfortable.
There is an irony (at least for me) as a result of the impact of global social media. It’s not so much the cacophony of discordant noises as the fostering of modern tribalisms. An earlier musician who had his prophetic moments (Paul Simon e.g. in “Sound of Silence”, “I am a Rock”) observed this in The Boxer.
All lies and jests, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.
And from “I am a Rock” these poignant words.
Here within my room, safe within my womb, I touch no one and no one touches me. I am a rock, I am an island. And a rock feels no pain. And an island never cries.
Isolationism. Lack of empathy? In a world of much anxiety, there’s a curious sort of safety in cutting yourself off from all who disagree with us. They are strangers, dangers.
Bonhoeffer’s profound hymn points prophetically to this theme.
The suspicion of natural theology is very Barthian and I find it very difficult to accept. I think that actually very few people can really go along with Barth on this; it's such an inhuman way of looking at existence; and ironically I think this makes Barth a lot better, since most of his adherents silently dispose of his worst aspects...
There is an irony (at least for me) as a result of the impact of global social media. It’s not so much the cacophony of discordant noises as the fostering of modern tribalisms. An earlier musician who had his prophetic moments (Paul Simon e.g. in “Sound of Silence”, “I am a Rock”) observed this in The Boxer.
All lies and jests, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.
And from “I am a Rock” these poignant words.
Here within my room, safe within my womb, I touch no one and no one touches me. I am a rock, I am an island. And a rock feels no pain. And an island never cries.
Isolationism. Lack of empathy? In a world of much anxiety, there’s a curious sort of safety in cutting yourself off from all who disagree with us. They are strangers, dangers.
Bonhoeffer’s profound hymn points prophetically to this theme.
I might quibble...I think there's also a vast coming together that happened, and then was followed by a big wave of something I've read called schismatic identity formation.
People suddenly saw each other in all of their terrifying semi-private glory and went "Holy crap, I don't know what I am but I'm sure glad I'm not that!" and began self-siloing semi-voluntarily.
Also, since both of these songs were written decades before the internet was a glint in Al Gore's eye, I think the trend toward social isolation isn't new, though maybe it waxes and wanes. Sometimes I can feel it contracting and expanding, but the pace is very slow compared to my fleeting existence.
That’s what made the songs prophetic. Decades before the internet Paul Simon was writing about alienation, isolation and the impact of lies. I’m not entirely sure what in those contemporary times triggered the creativity. The Sixties was a decade of phenomenal change. Take your pick!
That’s what made the songs prophetic. Decades before the internet Paul Simon was writing about alienation, isolation and the impact of lies. I’m not entirely sure what in those contemporary times triggered the creativity. The Sixties was a decade of phenomenal change. Take your pick!
I bet you can find examples of this from the 1920s if you get into the literature. Sinclair Louis comes to mind. I remember reading Babbitt back in the day and thinking "welp, that describes Donald Trump to a T." The protagonist is even into real estate.
Apparently "Babbitt" was such a social phenomenon that it turned into a shorthand for a certain kind of selfish up-and-coming upper middle class person, perhaps an early 20th century yuppie or DINK.
I do think a lot of this stuff is older than dirt, and the internet is just an accelerent. I wonder if this is what the printing press felt like.
Comments
I know what I hope will survive. I know who has spoken truth to me and whose voices still resonate with me. And I think they say things which will abide. I may be naive in continuing to believe "the truth will out". But I hope I'm right! Not just for me. Fractured truth is dangerous to everyone.
In a good way.
Wouldn't that have been the case for Jesus?
I do think with the internet, it's a lot harder for Big Players to be considered The Voice of...whatever. Even in pop culture, Taylor Swift is the only one I can think of, and I know she inspires a lot of contempt in some circles.
But in politics, especially on the left, there doesn't seem to be a lot of "rally around the hero" at the moment. We all try to do the best we can on our own and kinda move around like a blob without a central standard.
Even prior to/outside the internet, media consolidation makes it harder to get your own message out, with fewer mass market outlets willing to run messages outside consensus.
For a recent example Greta Thunberg was regularly in the press until she started to advocate for Palestine.
Right, in the past it was a competition among a small collection of very large independent news broadcasters that were somewhat bound by laws enforcing some kind of fairness.
And now we have increasingly monopolized news outlets on one hand and absolute chaos on the other, and the chaos is probably getting bought out and monetized as we speak.
This reminds me of how anarchism eventually becomes authoritarianism because if there isn't a regulatory body keeping the bullies from taking over, they'll make one for themselves.
Though I'd very much disagree that the current internet represents chaos; most people's experience of it is a series of walled gardens - Twitter and Bsky are minority sports in the extreme (and both are run/owned by billionaires with their own agendas).
If it's a comment on the kind of things people pick up on Facebook, well, that's another walled garden, and the content is the way it is because it suits the owners (and is also not a million miles away from the kind of thing that's broadcast).
Can you tell us which poem?
Father Paul directed us to the version in our Hymnal. See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZRs1nKmCLc
Very affecting, and, in these dark times, just what we needed. PTL!
With every power for good to stay and guide me,
comforted and inspired beyond all fear,
I’ll live these days with you in thought beside me,
and pass, with you, into the coming year.
The old year still torments our hearts, unhastening:
the long days of our sorrow still endure.
Father, grant to the soul thou hast been chastening
that thou hast promised—the healing and the cure.
Should it be ours to drain the cup of grieving
even to the dregs of pain, at thy command,
we will not falter, thankfully receiving
all that is given by thy loving hand.
But, should it be thy will once more to release us
to life’s enjoyment and its good sunshine,
that we’ve learned from sorrow shall increase us
and all our life be dedicate as thine.
Today, let candles shed their radiant greeting:
lo, on our darkness are they not thy light,
leading us haply to our longed-for meeting?
Thou canst illumine e’en our darkest night.
When now the silence deepens for our harkening,
grant we may hear thy children’s voices raise
from all the unseen world around us darkening,
their universal paean, in thy praise.
While all the powers of Good aid and attend us,
boldly we’ll face the future, be it what may.
At even, and at morn, God will befriend us,
and oh, most surely each new year’s day!
It's perfect. Thank you.
Trusting, though with trembling...
Amen
“By Gracious Powers” is beautiful. I don’t encounter being sung nearly enough. This is the tune I’m used to singing it to.
I'm a little curious as to what you infer Taylor Swift's message to be or have been. My fuzzy recollection is that she was vilified by the Right preemptively, before she'd really said or done anything, at least politically. MAGA was fearful of her. I mean, unless you're evaluating her lyrics as "a voice," I'm not really sure what you mean by her.
I think the Left is very cautious about any hint of a cult of personality developing around one of its more eloquent representatives. So much of the US, and world, really, has been laboring under the caustic cult of Trump's personality, as well as those of his surrogates and imitators. I think the Left does not want to reciprocate at all. It never did re: Rush Limbaugh, for example.
Getting rich is how you get liberated in today's society. You're only as free as you can afford to be.
That is, by degrees, a choice we make.
I'm not a Swiftie, but I am generally aware of her. And I think, like some performing artists, her voice, her lyrics, and her public persona are kind of a package deal.
Thoughts on right wing reactions, one thing is that she started off as a country singer and then made it as a general pop star, which is going to make the country music scene a little salty. And that's a scene that trends conservative in America, to the extent that otherwise-countrified artists label themselves "Americana" to avoid the genre's soiled reputation. I think there's always a little resentment for small town kids who make it big and don't act appropriately deferential to their roots. Here's a pretty song about that experience from a case study.
Another thing is she's a woman who is successful on her own terms. I think that in itself is enough to scare a lot of conservatives who are threatened by the culture of independent women. And in some circles, merely being a successful woman without a man to tell you what to do is enough to intimidate people. Britney Spears, by contrast was infamously under her daddy's thumb, which I think made her more acceptable to them even if her songs were blatantly lascivious.
And yes, for a songwriter, your song lyrics are definitely part of your voice. I think there might have been a time when some folks were trying to appropriate her as one of their own, and she avoided taking sides, and eventually she performed put this little ditty, which is about as subtle as a warning shot.
Again, I'm not a Swiftie, I don't follow her career very closely. I'm not an expert on her songwriting. But looking at the general patterns of her career, it doesn't surprise me that conservatives tend to want to throw things at her. They don't like her kind.
Yep. that's a thing. I think we have attachment disorder after being betrayed by too many of our would-be leaders, or watching them get publicly pilloried, which might be worse. There's also a trend toward democracy and consensus-building, which leans against leaders and centralized figures. It can be a strength sometimes, but it can also be a weakness.
Also, having watched the speed with which we form circular firing squads, I can understand why there's lot of trepidation around stepping up. High expectations are easy to fail, and we still carry them.
Polling around the time of King's death indicated that he was the most hated man in America when he died. That's usually what we mean when we discuss whether someone is popular or not; how widespread public support or condemnation of them is. It doesn't really tell us much to say that people who supported MLK's actions supported MLK's actions or that some generally despised person still has some supporters. So yes, "those opposed to him and to the Civil Rights Movement actively tried to undermine his public image", but at the time of his death "those opposed to him and to the Civil Rights Movement" significantly outnumbered his supporters.
Can you provide a TL/DR gist?
My recollection was that the movement fell apart through bickering and petty arguments, but it has been a decade since in took that class.
Thank you!
I think I'm on the same page. I've learned to hate the way we use the word "natural," because there is nothing in the world that isn't affected by us the second we're aware of it. Church and state are always interacting, yet must never be confused. I would agree with the third, as a Christian, but I think some Christians may warp it to bad ends; and along those lines, I can completely understand why non-Christians would find that phrasing profoundly uncomfortable.
And from “I am a Rock” these poignant words.
Isolationism. Lack of empathy? In a world of much anxiety, there’s a curious sort of safety in cutting yourself off from all who disagree with us. They are strangers, dangers.
Bonhoeffer’s profound hymn points prophetically to this theme.
I might quibble...I think there's also a vast coming together that happened, and then was followed by a big wave of something I've read called schismatic identity formation.
People suddenly saw each other in all of their terrifying semi-private glory and went "Holy crap, I don't know what I am but I'm sure glad I'm not that!" and began self-siloing semi-voluntarily.
Also, since both of these songs were written decades before the internet was a glint in Al Gore's eye, I think the trend toward social isolation isn't new, though maybe it waxes and wanes. Sometimes I can feel it contracting and expanding, but the pace is very slow compared to my fleeting existence.
I bet you can find examples of this from the 1920s if you get into the literature. Sinclair Louis comes to mind. I remember reading Babbitt back in the day and thinking "welp, that describes Donald Trump to a T." The protagonist is even into real estate.
Apparently "Babbitt" was such a social phenomenon that it turned into a shorthand for a certain kind of selfish up-and-coming upper middle class person, perhaps an early 20th century yuppie or DINK.
I do think a lot of this stuff is older than dirt, and the internet is just an accelerent. I wonder if this is what the printing press felt like.