Trump Tariffs
Let me get this straight.
If Trump is imposing 50% tariffs on imported steal and 25% tariffs on imported car parts, which will significantly raise the prices of cars made in America, while raising finished EU products imported into the United States by 15%, wouldn't be to the advantage of car makers to make their products in Europe?
Meanwhile lawsuits are winding their way through the American International Tarriff Court challenging Trump's claim to emergency powers to impose tariffs. Originally the lower courts had tried to stay Trump's tariff orders but SCOTUS, I think, allowed him to continue to collect the tariffs on the promise he would reimburse them if the courts finally rules against him
Now that would be interesting.
If Trump is imposing 50% tariffs on imported steal and 25% tariffs on imported car parts, which will significantly raise the prices of cars made in America, while raising finished EU products imported into the United States by 15%, wouldn't be to the advantage of car makers to make their products in Europe?
Meanwhile lawsuits are winding their way through the American International Tarriff Court challenging Trump's claim to emergency powers to impose tariffs. Originally the lower courts had tried to stay Trump's tariff orders but SCOTUS, I think, allowed him to continue to collect the tariffs on the promise he would reimburse them if the courts finally rules against him
Now that would be interesting.
Comments
With Trumps attitude towards the law they could be waiting a long time for the money if they did.
Just to point out he has not and would never tariff imported theft. In fact, he loves it and encourages it at every opportunity.
Trump does not understand tariffs. He makes this clear again and again. He still seems to think that the countries he imposes them on pay the tariffs, not - as everyone points out - the US consumer.
If challenged, of course, he says that people should just buy from the US. Ignoring the fact that, in most cases, the US no longer has the capability, to set it up would take decades and cost a fortune, the products would be more expensive therefore and probably of poorer quality, without the experience that other places have of producing them, and so would have only a US market, which is not big enough.
Of course, being so stupid he would be outsmarted by a squashed grape, he doesn't understand this even a little.
And anyone who points this out he accuses of being "un-American".
He thinks he is America. So anyone who disagrees with him is, of course, un-American in his eyes.
It might not make a difference as far as Trump is concerned. He appears to view court judgments as advisory, except when they affect people he doesn’t like.
Of course, even if the appeals court rules against Trump. he will go to SCOTUS--and if they rule against him, that will be a lot of sh-- hitting the fan.
How likely is that. From over here he seems to have a lot of friends in SCOTUS
Yup. Six, to be exact.
Shoot the messenger if you don’t like the message?
Plus the underlying retaliatory message from Trump to all those in government providing data is clear. Loyalty to him is more important than accuracy.
I quote Frank Herbert again, from “Dune Messiah”.
“If you put away from you those who tell you the truth, those who remain will know what you want to hear. I can think of nothing more poisonous than to rot in the stink of your own reflections”.
"The markets" will probably be fine, after some adjustments. Consumers, not so much. Here's a snippet from the New York Times [ paywall ] on reactions to the latest round of tariffs.
Wow! Who knew that putting a massive new tax on imported consumer goods would increase the price of consumer goods? At any rate, while most large corporations are fairly pro-Trump (they love the lower taxes and dismantling any enforcement of labor or environmental regulations), they're definitely not willing to lower their profit margins just so Trump's policies look more successful and less idiotic.
Also in Canada. The cash register price is always higher than the displayed price for taxable products, whether its a button or a car.
While people are saying the average American family will pay on average an extra $2400 on goods and services per year as a result of the tariffs, you can damn well bet it will be the lower classes than the higher income brackets that will experience more of the burden.
Wife and I have a moderate income for a retired couple. However, we don't have an extra $2,400 to cover the average estimated tax. Something will have to give. We usually make a once a year trip somewhere. We had hoped for Hawaii. Probably not going to happen.
If other families have to make similar decisions, it will mean our economy will shrink PDQ. That will have an impact on the markets. That is why they dropped so deep when T first announced his plans in April.
On top of that, the firing of the head of the statistics chairperson in the Bureau of Labor and Statistics will have a chilling effect on the future markets because businesses need accurate numbers to plan out their business strategies. No one likes flying blind into a cloud bank. It could be too late to head off negative consequences.
The displayed price doesn't include sales tax because there's no law requiring it and there's no incentive for stores to do this. But I don't think omitting sales tax on the displayed price entices people to buy because we all know there's going to be sales tax and we know what it is. It's not like airfare, because there are no other extra fees when you buy clothing or shampoo or whatever. The one thing I buy regularly where there are extra taxes is gasoline, and all gas stations display the total price per gallon with all taxes included because it would indeed be a shock to find out you're paying an extra 60 cents or so per gallon in California excise tax.
Also sales taxes vary a lot. Here in Long Beach it's 10.5%. In nearby cities, all places where I've recently purchased goods or services, it's variously 9.75%, 10.25%, 7.75%, and 9.25%. Stores don't want me to think they're charging people in Huntington Beach significantly less for shampoo than they're charging me a few miles away. That variation is a governmental decision, not a marketing one, because around here a sales tax is actually several taxes rolled together -- state, county and city. Long Beach people buying big-ticket items, such as appliances or cars, will sometimes go down to Orange County to make their purchases to save on sales tax.
I think this is true to a point. I know there's sales tax. I don't track exactly how the sales tax varies from community to community, or which things are subject to which tax rates ('cause it's not nearly as simple as one tax rate for anything you buy from a store), and I don't always know which city I happen to be standing in (in a suburban conurbation, cities run continuously in to each other, and the boundaries are not always clear), so I'm always uncertain at roughly the 2% level exactly how much I'm going to end up paying.
I'd much prefer displayed prices to be inclusive of all taxes, and I agree with you that stores won't do this unless the law requires them to. I don't think having different prices in different branches of the same store is an issue - in my experience, stores do that anyway.
I am not sure that that works. We have no control over the proportion that is tax, but we do decide how much we can afford, and the price after tax tells us that.
Well, there is, but there also isn't a little label by the orange juice describing how much is paid in corporate taxes by the store, how much is paid in employment taxes, and so on. The sales tax is just one of the taxes...
I think prices should include tax. But I do feel that there is a need to standardise the taxation on products so that it makes this more straightforward.
We seem to have come around once again to a regular pastime on the Ship: People who don’t live in a particular place and who don’t regularly deal with a particular way of doing things telling people who do live in that place and do regularly deal with that particular way of doing things that they’re doing things incorrectly, and opining on how they should be doing it.
I live in a locale where there is a state sales tax, a county sales tax and a special transit district sales tax. How often in real life do I hear people complain that prices marked or shown do not include sales tax? Pretty much never, because we’re all quite used to it, know how it works and we are prepared for it.
Pretty much the only places I hear kvetching about it are places like the Ship, and then only from people who live in places where it’s not an issue, and who have relatively little firsthand, day-to-day experience with the issue.
Yes, I know—travel. Anytime you travel to a foreign country, you can and should expect them to do things differently from how you’re used to them being done. As a traveler, it’s your responsibility to prepare yourself for that and deal with it, not their responsibility to do things differently.
Of course, state and local governments, just like individual purchasers, will also find themselves paying more for some goods as a result of tariffs.
You're too kind. You don't note that it's nearly always people outside the US talking about what they think is wrong with American practices.
Last time I made a significant purchase in Canada--actually clothes at the Hudson Bay Company--I used an American debit card. The exchange rate favored the United States at the time, and the VAT tax was eliminated when it was deducted from my bank account. Not sure if it is still that way, but it was good for me then. On top of that I had picked out a pair of shoes that were on a discount table. They did not include the discount when it was rung up at the till, so I challenged it. Manager was consulted. Shoes had been misplaced on the discount table. She ended up granting the discount. I made out like a bandit that day
Sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I just know that having worked on e-commerce systems, the prospect of calculating and including tax was way beyond anything we were going to be able to do.
Having said that, the tariffs which are up and down like a fell runner in the lakes must make that work incredibly difficult as well.
If so, why can't that be done for all shopping?
(@Nick Tamen - this is a question, not an opinion)
The sales tax will display on the final screen before clicking “order,” where the total cost—purchase price, shipping, taxes—is shown.
I occasionally go into a store or restaurant where the sales tax is included in the displayed price, but it’s rare. If there was a strong public desire that prices displayed in stores include sales tax, then I’m sure stores would make it happen. But the reality is that, at least in my experience, it’s not something people are clamoring for. It’s not something people here, who deal with it day-to-day, particularly think needs “fixing.”
Yes. The tarrif doesn't get carried around with the product like some kind of coupon - it's just a fee that an importer has to pay to import stuff. The sales tax is charged on whatever the final sale price is.
When you ask what the effect of tarrifs on local revenue might be, it's complicated. What happens when you make some things more expensive? Sometimes, people buy less of it, or buy other things instead of it. Sometimes, they buy the same amount of it and divert spending from somewhere else.
I'm here. I deal with it day-to-day. I would prefer it to be "fixed", in that if you offered me a free choice between prices being displayed without tax, or inclusive of tax, I'd choose the latter, every time.
But on the scale of actual problems that need fixing, there are very many more important things that I'd prefer my legislators to spend their time on.
Which means that what I actually do is occasionally whine about how stupid it is.
On the other hand, if it’s, say, a restaurant or food store just in the next county or state, where receiving, prepping and sending out the order happen at that restaurant/store, and the buyer has simply chosen delivery rather than pick-up, the location of the restaurant/store will control.
Immediately before the sentence you quoted, I said: “But the reality is that, at least in my experience, it’s not something people are clamoring for.” You’ll note the qualifier “in my experience,” and the verb “clamoring.”
In context, I think it was clear that, in the sentence you quoted, by “people here” I meant the population at large, or at least a sizable-enough segment of the population, as I have observed it. I did not mean that there are no individual people anywhere who think it’s a problem that they’d like to see fixed.
As I said some posts earlier, “How often in real life do I hear people complain that prices marked or shown do not include sales tax? Pretty much never.” That does not preclude the possibility that some people may complain.
And I know all of those things about you, because you’ve mentioned them numerous times on the Ship. I pay attention when people share information like that, so as to “know” (as much as we can on an internet forum) and understand those people better.
Cool