Australian politics - effective opposition

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  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    I would have thought the red centre of Australia was ideal for solar farms, but I am well outside the area of any expertise I have in saying that.
  • Fair enough. But the Climate change lobby was more powerful then and they wanted to win.

    And now? Is it not reasonable?

    Better spending the money on moving away from oil as much as possible. No amount of refinery capacity stops countries with oil-based economies being beholden to a handful of middle-eastern despots.

    We're trying, but it's expensive. And we have a cost of living crisis going on.

    Apparently we import something like 90% of our fuel, most of which comes from Asia, which gets it from the Middle East. So relying on ourselves would seem the obvious solution but again, expensive as our systems are old and outdated.

    It's the catch 22 situation I referred to above.
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    I would have thought the red centre of Australia was ideal for solar farms, but I am well outside the area of any expertise I have in saying that.

    I doubt whether you have any idea about the emptiness of the so-called “red centre” of Oz, or about the increasing hostility in Oz towards “wind farms”.

  • MiliMili Shipmate
    The fossil fuel industry does like to emphasise, and sometimes spread false information, about the impact of building wind farms and solar energy facilities on native wildlife and forests. Therefore they try to convince natural supporters of renewable energy that fossil fuels are actually better for the environment.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Fair enough. But the Climate change lobby was more powerful then and they wanted to win.

    And now? Is it not reasonable?

    Better spending the money on moving away from oil as much as possible. No amount of refinery capacity stops countries with oil-based economies being beholden to a handful of middle-eastern despots.

    We're trying, but it's expensive. And we have a cost of living crisis going on.

    Apparently we import something like 90% of our fuel, most of which comes from Asia, which gets it from the Middle East. So relying on ourselves would seem the obvious solution but again, expensive as our systems are old and outdated.

    It's the catch 22 situation I referred to above.

    The cost of even one oil shock likely exceeds the cost of transitioning to renewable energy. It just looks big because it's set down as a new budget line rather than an increased price across dozens and dozens of other lines. Australia is the largest global producer of lithium and has huge solar and wind potential and a relatively small population compared to its size. Weaning off fossil fuels is a no-brainer.
  • LatchKeyKidLatchKeyKid Shipmate
    I would have thought the red centre of Australia was ideal for solar farms, but I am well outside the area of any expertise I have in saying that.

    Good for solar farms, but bad for the length of transmission lines, I think.
  • I'm all for renewables but even taking into account the opposition of the petro-dollar industry and its supporters on the populist right, there is a way to go before it can become embedded and effective and accepted in the 'public mind.'

    Morocco has succeeded in supplying 52% of its energy from renewable sources in a very short time. Previously it was importing virtually all its fuel and energy sources.

    I didn't visit Australia's 'red-centre' but would have liked to have done. People tell me it's scarily vast.

    Australians tell me they feel 'claustrophobic' over here and I understand that, but equally even from crowded Europe, felt intimidated by the miles and miles of urban sprawl that stretches on and on and on around Melbourne for instance.

    That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to develop sustainable energy resources whether we are here in Europe or over in Australia or anywhere else.

    When I visited Madagascar I was shocked by the scale of environmental devastation as people relied heavily on charcoal as a meagre cash-crop.

    Trouble is, whilst some 'green' alternatives have been cack-handed or badly thought through and implemented, we can't stick with the status quo. There'll be even more wars over oil and dwindling resources.

    Climate-change denial and a degree of anti-environmentalism seems to have become something of a shibboleth on the populist right. It serves the interests of the fat cats and money men.

    One of the issues Morocco is finding is that wind and solar farms employ very few people. Fossil fuels currently require a larger workforce. What do you do with miners once the pits close?

    Somehow we need creative solutions to make the transition.

    It's one thing to knock green energy and those who, however awkwardly, are trying to resolve the issue but I don’t see the populist right coming up with anything constructive instead.
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