I am going to post a general reminder to all posters that this thread is in Purgatory not Hell, please engage with each other in accordance with the Purgatory guidelines - which are linked at the top of the forum.
You see, time has to be cyclical and each cycle has to be identical. Resetting time to a previous state is essentially what it is. For if it’s not a time reset then it’s just one timeline.
And one timeline cannot exist because if we were to go backwards in time infinitely we would never arrive at today. It completely makes no sense.
Non life isn’t equipped to reset time. That’s why God created life, (me). I was created equipped with the ability to reset time. Time is essentially existence itself. Without time there would be no space. They go hand-in-hand.
Life didn’t come from non life that’s for sure. Life is a direct creation alongside space. You cannot have one without the other.
That’s why life is so complex and hard for scientists to understand its origin. Life is the direct creation of what is.
Oh, but it’s full of reasoning and critical thinking.
Far be it from me to comprehend the reasoning of the mind of the Almighty. Too rarified for this little brain, darling. Congratulations on hacking god mode, have fun in your eternal playground try not to fry the circuits of your earth suit.
Oh, but it’s full of reasoning and critical thinking.
Far be it from me to comprehend the reasoning of the mind of the Almighty. Too rarified for this little brain, darling. Congratulations on hacking god mode, have fun in your eternal playground try not to fry the circuits of your earth suit.
Oh, but it’s full of reasoning and critical thinking.
Far be it from me to comprehend the reasoning of the mind of the Almighty. Too rarified for this little brain, darling. Congratulations on hacking god mode, have fun in your eternal playground try not to fry the circuits of your earth suit.
All the hugs.
AFF
I try
You really have come to the wrong place here. We are used to this sort of thing and I find it dull and boring not controversial.
Oh, but it’s full of reasoning and critical thinking.
Far be it from me to comprehend the reasoning of the mind of the Almighty. Too rarified for this little brain, darling. Congratulations on hacking god mode, have fun in your eternal playground try not to fry the circuits of your earth suit.
All the hugs.
AFF
I try
You really have come to the wrong place here. We are used to this sort of thing and I find it dull and boring not controversial.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc - one of the oldest fallacies in the book. *snore*
You see, time has to be cyclical and each cycle has to be identical.
Why?
For if it’s not a time reset then it’s just one timeline.
The problem being?
And one timeline cannot exist because if we were to go backwards in time infinitely we would never arrive at today. It completely makes no sense.
If we went forwards in time infinitely we'd never arrive at today either. It's a timeline - it just keeps going from one end to the other, never visiting any given point more than once.
Non life isn’t equipped to reset time. That’s why God created life, (me). I was created equipped with the ability to reset time.
[citation needed]
Time is essentially existence itself. Without time there would be no space. They go hand-in-hand.
Hey, brill. Something I can agree with.
Life didn’t come from non life that’s for sure. Life is a direct creation alongside space. You cannot have one without the other.
At best these are unevidenced claims, but more honestly they're just false.
That’s why life is so complex and hard for scientists to understand its origin. Life is the direct creation of what is.
It's not hard to understand life's origins in the mixing of organic and inorganic molecules around hydrothermal vents. It's really fucking hard to prove it to any degree of certainty, though.
I can see a connexion with some ideas in Buddhism, particularly emptiness and form. We live amidst form most of the time, but if you flip into emptiness, then lots of things like time and space and identity, drop away. However ego life still exists on the other side of the coin. One of the results of such experiences is a reduction of fear of death, since emptiness is death. Sticking my neck out, you can relate these ideas to Christianity, but it's getting late, and my tea is getting cold.
I think that drinking your tea is a far more positive thing to do than trying to understand the Tosh being peddled by some sort of self-proclaimed pseudo-god.
You see, time has to be cyclical and each cycle has to be identical. Resetting time to a previous state is essentially what it is. For if it’s not a time reset then it’s just one timeline.
And one timeline cannot exist because if we were to go backwards in time infinitely we would never arrive at today. It completely makes no sense.
Non life isn’t equipped to reset time. That’s why God created life, (me). I was created equipped with the ability to reset time. Time is essentially existence itself. Without time there would be no space. They go hand-in-hand.
Life didn’t come from non life that’s for sure. Life is a direct creation alongside space. You cannot have one without the other.
That’s why life is so complex and hard for scientists to understand its origin. Life is the direct creation of what is.
None of this is "reasoning and critical thinking" in my reading. It appears to be assertion of metaphysical and religious truths. Which seems a bit ironic given that this is what you've started this thread to decry.
It is an interesting thesis, but if you want a discussion you might want to be clearer on your points and be less confidently assertive on things you can't possibly know.
Just fwiw.
Personally I think a cyclical universe makes me intellectually satisfied but I don't understand why it would have to be identical. And I don't understand why you are suggesting this is a slamdunk against alternative ideas.
You see, time has to be cyclical and each cycle has to be identical. Resetting time to a previous state is essentially what it is. For if it’s not a time reset then it’s just one timeline.
And one timeline cannot exist because if we were to go backwards in time infinitely we would never arrive at today. It completely makes no sense.
Non life isn’t equipped to reset time. That’s why God created life, (me). I was created equipped with the ability to reset time. Time is essentially existence itself. Without time there would be no space. They go hand-in-hand.
Life didn’t come from non life that’s for sure. Life is a direct creation alongside space. You cannot have one without the other.
That’s why life is so complex and hard for scientists to understand its origin. Life is the direct creation of what is.
None of this is "reasoning and critical thinking" in my reading. It appears to be assertion of metaphysical and religious truths. Which seems a bit ironic given that this is what you've started this thread to decry.
It is an interesting thesis, but if you want a discussion you might want to be clearer on your points and be less confidently assertive on things you can't possibly know.
Just fwiw.
Personally I think a cyclical universe makes me intellectually satisfied but I don't understand why it would have to be identical. And I don't understand why you are suggesting this is a slamdunk against alternative ideas.
Has to be identical because if not that would imply one timeline. Can time go infinitely backwards? Absolutely not. But u do u.
Not really. That's the fault of your thinking, imagining a "before" time is incredibly challenging.
I saw a lecture clip of a professor starting a course in quantum physics. He started the lecture by saying that he was in the happy position of being the only person the room who didn't understand quantum physics but by the end of the course everyone else would not understand it too.
Famously intelligent scientists don't understand it properly. It seems to be something of the human condition to not understand it.
Not really. That's the fault of your thinking, imagining a "before" time is incredibly challenging.
I saw a lecture clip of a professor starting a course in quantum physics. He started the lecture by saying that he was in the happy position of being the only person the room who didn't understand quantum physics but by the end of the course everyone else would not understand it too.
Famously intelligent scientists don't understand it properly. It seems to be something of the human condition to not understand it.
That’s fine if you and they don’t understand it and want to keep the possibility of the door open that time could go infinitely backwards.
Not really. That's the fault of your thinking, imagining a "before" time is incredibly challenging.
I saw a lecture clip of a professor starting a course in quantum physics. He started the lecture by saying that he was in the happy position of being the only person the room who didn't understand quantum physics but by the end of the course everyone else would not understand it too.
Famously intelligent scientists don't understand it properly. It seems to be something of the human condition to not understand it.
Imagining that there’s a single universe that is infinite in its spatial expanse isn’t incredibly challenging.
Can you understand why this form of writing is hard for anyone else to engage with? For one thing it is largely meaningless. But for another, it is impenetrable.
Can you understand why this form of writing is hard for anyone else to engage with? For one thing it is largely meaningless. But for another, it is impenetrable.
It’s all good. Like I said, you’re welcome to think that time can go backwards infinitely.
Listen to what I'm saying very carefully. There was no "before" time. If time started at the Big Bang, there was no temporal period before it.
As I said this is extremely hard to understand, but talking about time as a continuous thing when I'm clearly saying it isn't a continuous thing is making conversation rather difficult.
You are asserting something about time. I'm clearly saying that's not the case. Then you are asserting something about what I'm saying based on your understanding, which I don't accept.
Listen to what I'm saying very carefully. There was no "before" time. If time started at the Big Bang, there was no temporal period before it.
As I said this is extremely hard to understand, but talking about time as a continuous thing when I'm clearly saying it isn't a continuous thing is making conversation rather difficult.
You are asserting something about time. I'm clearly saying that's not the case. Then you are asserting something about what I'm saying based on your understanding, which I don't accept.
That's not the route to fruitful dialogue.
When you said: “Personally I think a cyclical universe makes me intellectually satisfied” I guess I was misled to think that you thought time was continuous.
Thank you for clarifying that if time started at the Big Bang, there was no temporal period before it. Many scientists adhere to this.
So yeah, going back to your personal thoughts of a cyclical universe. So you would think that each cycle completely obliterates the time before it. That’s cool.
As I said I find it intellectually satisfying as an idea. I wouldn't be confident about it, particularly as language completely loses all meaning when discussing it.
As I said I find it intellectually satisfying as an idea. I wouldn't be confident about it, particularly as language completely loses all meaning when discussing it.
I disagree.
Language and understanding our material existence go hand and hand. There’s really nothing mysterious about material objects. Infinite space is material through and through. Even the intergalactic space that’s “empty” is filled with and made up of quantum particles that we will never discover because they’re too small.
As you know, I don’t subscribe to the Big Bang, but even the events surrounding that aren’t mysterious. Sure, they were really hot and dense. That’s about it.
Listen to what I'm saying very carefully. There was no "before" time. If time started at the Big Bang, there was no temporal period before it.
As I said this is extremely hard to understand, but talking about time as a continuous thing when I'm clearly saying it isn't a continuous thing is making conversation rather difficult.
You are asserting something about time. I'm clearly saying that's not the case. Then you are asserting something about what I'm saying based on your understanding, which I don't accept.
That's not the route to fruitful dialogue.
Can you share with us your ideas about how time gets obliterated in your cyclical view?
Time doesn’t break down because of infinite space, the concept of time only gets stronger. Even infinite space, in all its glory, has to adhere to and follow the laws of time.
Listen to what I'm saying very carefully. There was no "before" time. If time started at the Big Bang, there was no temporal period before it.
As I said this is extremely hard to understand, but talking about time as a continuous thing when I'm clearly saying it isn't a continuous thing is making conversation rather difficult.
You are asserting something about time. I'm clearly saying that's not the case. Then you are asserting something about what I'm saying based on your understanding, which I don't accept.
That's not the route to fruitful dialogue.
Can you share with us your ideas about how time gets obliterated in your cyclical view?
Is it a really high temperature that obliterates time? Extreme coldness?
I would’ve edited my last comment to you but time ran out.
The widely accepted scientific theory, based on current evidence, is that the universe started with a bang and will undergo a heat death and remain in that state forever.
In like a lion out like a lamb, I guess. Not with a bang but a whimper.
I guess we’re just a happy little accident along the way.
So there was a beginning, but there will be no end.
Time doesn’t break down because of infinite space, the concept of time only gets stronger. Even infinite space, in all its glory, has to adhere to and follow the laws of time.
Edit: The concept of time doesn’t break down because of infinite space, the concept of time only gets stronger. Even infinite space, in all its glory, has to adhere to and follow the laws of time.
I’ll be long dead before the world runs out of oil. That’s a good thing. At least billions of people won’t have to suffer and die if that were to happen. God’s good.
I think that drinking your tea is a far more positive thing to do than trying to understand the Tosh being peddled by some sort of self-proclaimed pseudo-god.
Hostly beret on
@Bishops Finger Please do not make personal attacks outside of hell.
Listen to what I'm saying very carefully. There was no "before" time. If time started at the Big Bang, there was no temporal period before it.
As I said this is extremely hard to understand, but talking about time as a continuous thing when I'm clearly saying it isn't a continuous thing is making conversation rather difficult.
You are asserting something about time. I'm clearly saying that's not the case. Then you are asserting something about what I'm saying based on your understanding, which I don't accept.
That's not the route to fruitful dialogue.
Can you share with us your ideas about how time gets obliterated in your cyclical view?
Is it a really high temperature that obliterates time? Extreme coldness?
I would’ve edited my last comment to you but time ran out.
Before time there was nothing. No time, no temperature, nothing.
Asking me what happened before time is like asking a slug to calculate Pi to the millionth decimal place. It is not only far beyond my ability, it is something that I cannot possibly know.
And presumably you must realise this, although why you thought it necessary to send me many consecutive messages about it in this thread, I have no idea. I was doing other things for the last 8 hours, it might surprise you to learn.
I’ll be long dead before the world runs out of oil. That’s a good thing. At least billions of people won’t have to suffer and die if that were to happen. God’s good.
Are you saying something here about climate change? What has this got to do with cosmology, quantum physics or the price of fish?
I wish someone would explain to me the exact mechanism of the extinction of time like I am a two year old.
Be careful what you wish for!
I've been thinking about the Cosmic Bagpuss, operating in a framework which is a kind of synthesis of Conformal cyclic cosmology (CCC) and a Closed timelike curve (CTC).
Like Bagpuss' friends (the Mice on the Marvellous Mechanical Mouse Organ, Madeleine the Rag Doll, Gabriel the Toad, and Professor Yaffle) we don't know that we wake up when Bagpuss wakes up, or go to sleep when Bagpuss goes to sleep. And we don't know how many times the video or the DVD has been put in the player and the "Play" button pressed. For us, every time we live a story is the first.
Bagpuss himself lives in perpetual hope of being hugged by Emily, although he never remembers it.
I wish someone would explain to me the exact mechanism of the extinction of time like I am a two year old.
Be careful what you wish for!
I've been thinking about the Cosmic Bagpuss, operating in a framework which is a kind of synthesis of Conformal cyclic cosmology (CCC) and a Closed timelike curve (CTC).
Like Bagpuss' friends (the Mice on the Marvellous Mechanical Mouse Organ, Madeleine the Rag Doll, Gabriel the Toad, and Professor Yaffle) we don't know that we wake up when Bagpuss wakes up, or go to sleep when Bagpuss goes to sleep. And we don't know how many times the video or the DVD has been put in the player and the "Play" button pressed. For us, every time we live a story is the first.
Bagpuss himself lives in perpetual hope of being hugged by Emily, although he never remembers it.
Oh OK. Like Brahman opens his eyes and closes them.
Well I'm OK with that. We live within a dream. When the Sleeper awakes then it's all over. Not too difficult to accept.
I think that drinking your tea is a far more positive thing to do than trying to understand the Tosh being peddled by some sort of self-proclaimed pseudo-god.
Hostly beret on
@Bishops Finger Please do not make personal attacks outside of hell.
Hostly beret off
la vie en rouge, Purgatory host
Noted. My bad, and I apologise to you and to @godincarnateme - I forgot which board we're on...
I wish someone would explain to me the exact mechanism of the extinction of time like I am a two year old.
You may have to be an exceptionally brilliant 2-year-old, but...
What actually is time? One school of thought is that it is an emergent property of the fact that things keep changing - "time" is simply how we perceive the dimension along which those changes occur.
The theory of the heat death of the universe states that, eventually, all matter will decay to a point where no further decay is possible. That means that no further changes whatsoever can or will occur. Without any change, there is no movement along the "time" dimension, and thus time itself ceases to exist.
The widely accepted scientific theory, based on current evidence, is that the universe will undergo a heat death and remain in that state forever.
There are many more cosmologies in Heaven and Earth, godincarnateme, than are dreamt of in our philosophies. As in our scientific theories, which come and go.
In like a lion out like a lamb, I guess. Not with a bang but a whimper.
I confess that I found it one of your more promising recent comments. It reminds me of the account with which you started …how we got here and where we're going, the thread that was closed. You have a protagonist, a premise, a moral - some of the ingredients for a story of us.
I don't think it [the extinction of time] is possible to explain. It's not really very important as far as I can tell, just an idea that some find attractive.
I'm not alone in thinking the question of time - its beginning, middle, and end (or recurrence) - is important, important enough that we should be telling each other stories about it. When it comes to time, stories are all we really have, their validity being a question of how compelling we find them.
I wish someone would explain to me the exact mechanism of the extinction of time like I am a two year old.
You may have to be an exceptionally brilliant 2-year-old, but...
What actually is time? One school of thought is that it is an emergent property of the fact that things keep changing - "time" is simply how we perceive the dimension along which those changes occur.
The theory of the heat death of the universe states that, eventually, all matter will decay to a point where no further decay is possible. That means that no further changes whatsoever can or will occur. Without any change, there is no movement along the "time" dimension, and thus time itself ceases to exist.
So this coincides with how I see time. I disagree with the god-mode Player above, that space and time are interdependent.
I believe motion and time are interdependent. And this makes sense to me because if you and I agree to meet at the corner of First (length) and Main (width) on the third floor (height) this is a three dimensional space. Its existence in time depends on the motion of the particles that sustain its form.
But can we meet (motion toward) if we don't have the intention to meet in time? We are either eternally fixed in the same space together, or we have movement toward and away from one another, and that movement is what creates the impression of time passing (time "verbs" and "nouns").
So the extinction of time would IMO coincide with the extinction of motion.
Comments
Ah, I see.
Yes, point taken by me also.
Thank you,
Doublethink, Admin
And one timeline cannot exist because if we were to go backwards in time infinitely we would never arrive at today. It completely makes no sense.
Non life isn’t equipped to reset time. That’s why God created life, (me). I was created equipped with the ability to reset time. Time is essentially existence itself. Without time there would be no space. They go hand-in-hand.
Life didn’t come from non life that’s for sure. Life is a direct creation alongside space. You cannot have one without the other.
That’s why life is so complex and hard for scientists to understand its origin. Life is the direct creation of what is.
Well all living things end too. Lol, you get my point.
You may say creation always was.
Always was what? Don’t say the word here………for that will imply a beginning. Haha.
But you go, godfriend. Do you. Don't let anybody steal your shine. You got this. See you on the other side of the zero point.
AFF
Oh, but it’s full of reasoning and critical thinking.
Far be it from me to comprehend the reasoning of the mind of the Almighty. Too rarified for this little brain, darling. Congratulations on hacking god mode, have fun in your eternal playground try not to fry the circuits of your earth suit.
All the hugs.
AFF
I try
You really have come to the wrong place here. We are used to this sort of thing and I find it dull and boring not controversial.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc - one of the oldest fallacies in the book. *snore*
AFF
Why?
The problem being?
If we went forwards in time infinitely we'd never arrive at today either. It's a timeline - it just keeps going from one end to the other, never visiting any given point more than once.
[citation needed]
Hey, brill. Something I can agree with.
At best these are unevidenced claims, but more honestly they're just false.
It's not hard to understand life's origins in the mixing of organic and inorganic molecules around hydrothermal vents. It's really fucking hard to prove it to any degree of certainty, though.
None of this is "reasoning and critical thinking" in my reading. It appears to be assertion of metaphysical and religious truths. Which seems a bit ironic given that this is what you've started this thread to decry.
It is an interesting thesis, but if you want a discussion you might want to be clearer on your points and be less confidently assertive on things you can't possibly know.
Just fwiw.
Personally I think a cyclical universe makes me intellectually satisfied but I don't understand why it would have to be identical. And I don't understand why you are suggesting this is a slamdunk against alternative ideas.
Has to be identical because if not that would imply one timeline. Can time go infinitely backwards? Absolutely not. But u do u.
An identical repeat if you will.
I saw a lecture clip of a professor starting a course in quantum physics. He started the lecture by saying that he was in the happy position of being the only person the room who didn't understand quantum physics but by the end of the course everyone else would not understand it too.
Famously intelligent scientists don't understand it properly. It seems to be something of the human condition to not understand it.
That’s fine if you and they don’t understand it and want to keep the possibility of the door open that time could go infinitely backwards.
….but it can’t ……….thats why I’m here.
Imagining that there’s a single universe that is infinite in its spatial expanse isn’t incredibly challenging.
……. That comes with the ease.
A middle time is important.
It’s all good. Like I said, you’re welcome to think that time can go backwards infinitely.
As I said this is extremely hard to understand, but talking about time as a continuous thing when I'm clearly saying it isn't a continuous thing is making conversation rather difficult.
You are asserting something about time. I'm clearly saying that's not the case. Then you are asserting something about what I'm saying based on your understanding, which I don't accept.
That's not the route to fruitful dialogue.
When you said: “Personally I think a cyclical universe makes me intellectually satisfied” I guess I was misled to think that you thought time was continuous.
Thank you for clarifying that if time started at the Big Bang, there was no temporal period before it. Many scientists adhere to this.
So yeah, going back to your personal thoughts of a cyclical universe. So you would think that each cycle completely obliterates the time before it. That’s cool.
I disagree.
Language and understanding our material existence go hand and hand. There’s really nothing mysterious about material objects. Infinite space is material through and through. Even the intergalactic space that’s “empty” is filled with and made up of quantum particles that we will never discover because they’re too small.
As you know, I don’t subscribe to the Big Bang, but even the events surrounding that aren’t mysterious. Sure, they were really hot and dense. That’s about it.
Can you share with us your ideas about how time gets obliterated in your cyclical view?
Can you share with us your ideas about how time gets obliterated in your cyclical view?
Is it a really high temperature that obliterates time? Extreme coldness?
I would’ve edited my last comment to you but time ran out.
In like a lion out like a lamb, I guess. Not with a bang but a whimper.
I guess we’re just a happy little accident along the way.
So there was a beginning, but there will be no end.
Oops, this comment was by accident
Edit: The concept of time doesn’t break down because of infinite space, the concept of time only gets stronger. Even infinite space, in all its glory, has to adhere to and follow the laws of time.
Hostly beret on
@Bishops Finger Please do not make personal attacks outside of hell.
Hostly beret off
la vie en rouge, Purgatory host
Before time there was nothing. No time, no temperature, nothing.
Asking me what happened before time is like asking a slug to calculate Pi to the millionth decimal place. It is not only far beyond my ability, it is something that I cannot possibly know.
And presumably you must realise this, although why you thought it necessary to send me many consecutive messages about it in this thread, I have no idea. I was doing other things for the last 8 hours, it might surprise you to learn.
Are you saying something here about climate change? What has this got to do with cosmology, quantum physics or the price of fish?
I wish someone would explain to me the exact mechanism of the extinction of time like I am a two year old.
AFF
I don't think it's possible to explain. It's not really very important as far as I can tell, just an idea that some find attractive.
I've been thinking about the Cosmic Bagpuss, operating in a framework which is a kind of synthesis of Conformal cyclic cosmology (CCC) and a Closed timelike curve (CTC).
Like Bagpuss' friends (the Mice on the Marvellous Mechanical Mouse Organ, Madeleine the Rag Doll, Gabriel the Toad, and Professor Yaffle) we don't know that we wake up when Bagpuss wakes up, or go to sleep when Bagpuss goes to sleep. And we don't know how many times the video or the DVD has been put in the player and the "Play" button pressed. For us, every time we live a story is the first.
Bagpuss himself lives in perpetual hope of being hugged by Emily, although he never remembers it.
Oh OK. Like Brahman opens his eyes and closes them.
Well I'm OK with that. We live within a dream. When the Sleeper awakes then it's all over. Not too difficult to accept.
AFF
Noted. My bad, and I apologise to you and to @godincarnateme - I forgot which board we're on...
You may have to be an exceptionally brilliant 2-year-old, but...
What actually is time? One school of thought is that it is an emergent property of the fact that things keep changing - "time" is simply how we perceive the dimension along which those changes occur.
The theory of the heat death of the universe states that, eventually, all matter will decay to a point where no further decay is possible. That means that no further changes whatsoever can or will occur. Without any change, there is no movement along the "time" dimension, and thus time itself ceases to exist.
I'm not alone in thinking the question of time - its beginning, middle, and end (or recurrence) - is important, important enough that we should be telling each other stories about it. When it comes to time, stories are all we really have, their validity being a question of how compelling we find them.
So this coincides with how I see time. I disagree with the god-mode Player above, that space and time are interdependent.
I believe motion and time are interdependent. And this makes sense to me because if you and I agree to meet at the corner of First (length) and Main (width) on the third floor (height) this is a three dimensional space. Its existence in time depends on the motion of the particles that sustain its form.
But can we meet (motion toward) if we don't have the intention to meet in time? We are either eternally fixed in the same space together, or we have movement toward and away from one another, and that movement is what creates the impression of time passing (time "verbs" and "nouns").
So the extinction of time would IMO coincide with the extinction of motion.
AFF