And now there is Iran

Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
edited January 14 in Purgatory
The Iranian people are in open revolt due to economic hardships and lack of water. The regime has killed hundreds. Trump threatens the regime with military actions or other sanctions. The son of the former Shah is encouraging the Iranians to seek regime change. America is now telling unnecessary personnel to evacuate nearby bases. Iran says it can hit targets in the US.

Saw a Facebook Meme today. Something to the effect:

Book people take a break and look up. See the mess we are in. Return to your books.

What are your bets?

Comments

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Posted this a few days ago when it looked like Trump was going to militarily intervene in that protest movement against the regime.

    Then I think he was convinced it would put him between a rock and a hard place. It appears his generals said there would be nothing to gain with that intervention. It would put Americans in harm's way especially at nearby bases, but also even here in the US, since Iran is known to have death squads throughout the world.

    But I have to wonder about how the protestors are taking this. They had hoped there would be an American intervention, but it did not come. Goes to prove never trust an American.

  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Trump probably has no idea what happened in 79.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Caissa wrote: »
    Trump probably has no idea what happened in 79.

    I certainly did. I was called to active duty during that time.
  • Trump seems to have changed his mind. He may do so again tomorrow and say something different again next week and the week after.

    So I wouldn't want to place any bets.

    Is he stalling for time. Planning a surprise attack? Who knows? Does he?
  • BullfrogBullfrog Shipmate
    edited January 17
    Are they still trying to relocate Tehran because of drought? I thought I read that a while ago.

    Seems to be a lot going on.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Bullfrog wrote: »
    Are they still trying to relocate Tehran because of drought? I thought I read that a while ago.

    Seems to be a lot going on.

    I think they will try to relocate the government not the whole city. But even that costs money, which they do not have.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Just finished watching Washington Weekon PBS, Turns out we did not have an American carrier in the Middle East. Trump had moved the Gerald Ford to the Caribbean. The nearest other carrier, the Abraham Lincoln was in the SW Pacific. No Arab state was willing to allow Trump to use American assets in their country. In other words, we did not have any resources available. It will take at least two weeks before we can get a carrier on location.

    There might be more to come first of February.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Yesterday, I was doing a bit of channel surfing when I came across a comment from the 700 club to the effect they could not understand why the liberal Democrats are so up in arms about the deaths of Good and Pretti here in the US, but silent about the thousands who have been killed by the Iranian regime. Their conclusion, the Democrats have lost the ability to ever lead the United States ever again. What would be your response?
  • Have the Democrats been silent? I'm sure there will have been comments about the Iranian violence somewhere from that quarter.

    I'm not American but I think my response would be that two wrongs don't make a right. The fact that the Iranian regime has killed thousands of its people doesn't make it right for ICE to kill 30 or so people in the US, as I believe they have done cumulatively.

    If any one isn't fit to form a US administration it's the Republicans on present form.

    Whether it's two deaths or 22 deaths or 22,000 deaths, it's still death.
  • Part of me is inclined to say “the 700 club? The Pat Robertson people? An authority on anything? That even deserves a response?“ But honestly, I’m thinking that a simple response to this would be that nobody out there on either the Democratic or the Republican side thinks that the government of Iran is basically good, or expects it to treat its citizens well in the first place. And that when we’re criticizing the horrible things our own government is doing, especially when those things violate the principles it is supposed to follow in our Constitution, that’s trying to clean up our own house.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Yesterday, I was doing a bit of channel surfing when I came across a comment from the 700 club to the effect they could not understand why the liberal Democrats are so up in arms about the deaths of Good and Pretti here in the US, but silent about the thousands who have been killed by the Iranian regime. Their conclusion, the Democrats have lost the ability to ever lead the United States ever again. What would be your response?
    Assuming that's even a good faith question - I suspect the 700 Club would quite happily say that US politicians should treat US citizens as more important than foreigners in other circumstances:

    Deaths of people in the US is something that the Democrats and US voters in general can do something about through peaceful constitutional means. Deaths of Iranian citizens considerably less so.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    On his bespoke social media platform this morning Trump said he was sending a "massive Armada" to attack Iran if it doesn't agree to end its nuclear program. This is pretty amazing given Trump claimed that Iran's nuclear program was "completely obliterated" last June.
  • Ah, but Trump's head was in a different parallel universe last June...

    The UK Guardian's view of current events as regards the 'Armada':

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/28/trump-threat-us-iran-war-armada-nuclear-programme
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Yesterday, I was doing a bit of channel surfing when I came across a comment from the 700 club to the effect they could not understand why the liberal Democrats are so up in arms about the deaths of Good and Pretti here in the US, but silent about the thousands who have been killed by the Iranian regime. Their conclusion, the Democrats have lost the ability to ever lead the United States ever again. What would be your response?

    Everybody knows the Iranian regime is despotic. Iranians killing opponents of their regime is bad, but completely unsurprising. Most people expect the US to be better than that, not to attempt to imitate it.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Interesting how Trump, through the former Shah's son, has been telling the Iranian people he's got their back. He is sending the Abraham Lincoln task force to be on station off the coast, but he is telling the American people he is going in because the Iranian government will not negotiate a nuclear agreement.

    What does Iran have that he really wants? I think we all know the answer to that one.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Interesting how Trump, through the former Shah's son, has been telling the Iranian people he's got their back. He is sending the Abraham Lincoln task force to be on station off the coast, but he is telling the American people he is going in because the Iranian government will not negotiate a nuclear agreement.

    What does Iran have that he really wants? I think we all know the answer to that one.

    Well I bl**dy don't!
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Oil.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    Those Epstein files must be really damning.

    Although he could just be trying to boost his ratings. Bush became more popular after starting a war, so starting two must be even better, right?
  • Oil.

    Distraction, Hegemony and Gas.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Oil.

    Distraction, Hegemony and Gas.

    Yup.
    Jane R wrote: »
    Those Epstein files must be really damning.
    Heather Cox Richardson (American historian who writes a daily newsletter commenting on current US events within a long-term historical context) said as much a week or so ago.
    Although he could just be trying to boost his ratings. Bush became more popular after starting a war, so starting two must be even better, right?

    That was then. Bush got us into a war that we didn't get out of till the Biden administration, and the American public has (at least for the time being) lost its taste for war. Normally I'd say we'd be okay with some bombing, but the polling in mid-January says more than half of American adults think Trump's foreign intervention has "gone too far": https://apnews.com/article/poll-trump-venezuela-foreign-policy-approval-ce8d92a1461abb354f8c799e6b487e49.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    It appears that Israel and the US have started another round of crimes against peace:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2026/feb/28/israel-attacks-iran-as-blasts-heard-in-tehran-live-updates
    Is this just going to be a few days of terrorising Iranians and failing to blow up anything important or do we think Trump is aiming for regime change? I assume even his handlers aren't stupid enough to think they can impose a transitional government on a country the size of Iran.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    He seems to start international conflict in response to developments in the Epstein case.
  • Hope it's not ww3. Wont be if China or Russia don't get involved.
  • Hope it's not ww3. Wont be if China or Russia don't get involved.

    Russia kind of has its hands tied. I see Zelinski is all for the attack on Iran since Iran had been supplying many of the drones Russia had been using.

    About the only way China can get involved is to attack Taiwan and test our two wars theory,
    It does not have the capacity to come to Iran's direct aid.
  • Your comments on Russia make sense and yes re the two wars theory. Now would be a good time to strike while the US is busy.

    Why don't you think China has the capacity to come to Iran's direct aid?
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited March 1
    I don’t think it would be consistent with China’s previous foreign policy to get involved, and as they are accelerating non-fossil fuels production I think they are less worried about access to oil than Trump. I suspect they will simply criticise from the sidelines.

    (I note we do have a war in the middle east thread - my bad I had forgotten we already had an Iran thread - it is possible they either get merged or one closed in the near future.)
  • I don’t think it would be consistent with China’s previous foreign policy to get involved, and as they are accelerating non-fossil fuels production I think they are less worried about access to oil than Trump. I suspect they will simply criticise from the sidelines.

    (I note we do have a war in the middle east thread - my bad I had forgotten we already had an Iran thread - it is possible they either get merged or one closed in the near future.)

    I think you're right there Doublethink about policy.

    I was just curious about Gramps "capacity" comment. He seems in the technical know.
  • BullfrogBullfrog Shipmate
    I wonder if terrorism is going to start coming back. It must be something seeing USA waste so much of their resources sending paramilitaries after innocent people.

    It'll be a lot easier to sneak actually dangerous people in with our security apparatus overstretched chasing harmless civilians. And our administration run by hacks and sycophants.

    I always thought that the long game for AQ et al was to give us a case of political inflammation, wasting our time and money punishing harmless people so we didn't have the energy for the real monsters. It makes sense, and I think the current administration practically feeds on that stuff anyway. They like keeping people scared.
  • Earlier this morning I heard a brief news announcement that the stock market is doing well today. Does anyone else keep remembering the line from "Oh What a Lovely War" declaring that: "War is a political and economic necessity"? Tariffs will eventually fail, but boosting the military supply industries is always a winner.
  • BullfrogBullfrog Shipmate
    It has been a gripe that I have been hearing since the second Bush administration that the stock market is not at all yoked to the American economy as most of us experience it.

    I'm not even sure we're considered sheep to be fleeced anymore, figuratively speaking.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Your comments on Russia make sense and yes re the two wars theory. Now would be a good time to strike while the US is busy.

    Why don't you think China has the capacity to come to Iran's direct aid?

    The Chinese navy is large and modern, but its ability to sustain distant operations is still limited by logistics, basing and replenishment capacity. China cannot yet sustain a large combat fleet in the Persian Gulf for long periods. It cannot control both the South China Sea and the Persian Gulf simultaneously in a crisis. It cannot match American global logistic, which rely on dozens of bases and a huge replenishment fleet.

    China puts a huge emphasis on controlling the South China Sea. Contrast that with the American Navy which is a five theatre force which is stretched around the world.
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