When my sons were young they were given a lovely book all about bodily noises. Unfortunately I can't remember author or title, but I'm pretty sure that was where I first came across the word borborygmus
There is a not-so-fine line between speech and writing. In my experience, "whom" is seldom heard nowadays in speech but it still has a place in writing.
Is charwoman politically incorrect for cleaning lady?
Smock. Actually, that isn't archaic. I just like saying smock. Smock, smock, smock!
It may interest you to know that there is a place on the Welsh Borders called Smockington. Which I have always thought sounded like the name of a supervillain's sidekick.
I’ve never thought of thaumaturge as archaic, myself…
Do I detect the influence of Gary Gygax?
Well, I certainly encountered that in D&D when I started at the age of 13 in 1980… But generally, I know about those sorts of things anyway.
Oh, some of the words people are listing here which I hadn’t really thought about as archaic that I use frequently would indeed be whom, ascend and ascending, and others. Vex and vexatious are ones I use frequently. Behoove. I think I just think of these as… I don’t think of them as archaic honestly but I don’t think of lots of things as archaic that other people might.
There is a not-so-fine line between speech and writing. In my experience, "whom" is seldom heard nowadays in speech but it still has a place in writing.
Is charwoman politically incorrect for cleaning lady?
OMG all this time I thought it meant… something to do with chimneys or the like. I primarily know the term from a line in a CS Lewis book about there being two people in England at such and such a time that had fairy blood in them, one of whom was a duchess and the other of whom was a charwoman.
I don’t say chambermaid, but I think that’s because I imagine that is being more of an historical kind of thing you know in a castle and such. But maid, yes. “Everybody ought to have a maid…” 🎶 And of course butler, but that seems to be more a live-in person for very rich people, and I mainly encounter them in comics (Alfred, Jarvis, etc.). Whereas one hires a maid service for periodic or one-time cleaning, often with “Maid” in the name of the company, like Merry Maids, MaidPro, etc., and they come by, clean, and leave. Oh, and maids in Japanese stuff, like anime or maid-themed restaurants.
Charwoman has fallen out of general use, possibly because so few people have live-in servants nowadays that you don't really need a special word for a cleaner who comes in daily (or weekly if you're particularly hard up). They are usually comic relief and/or sources of incriminating information in Golden Age detective stories. This may be the other reason why the word has fallen out of general use.
Charwoman has fallen out of general use, possibly because so few people have live-in servants nowadays that you don't really need a special word for a cleaner who comes in daily (or weekly if you're particularly hard up). They are usually comic relief and/or sources of incriminating information in Golden Age detective stories. This may be the other reason why the word has fallen out of general use.
I would be thrilled to have a cleaner who comes in weekly or even monthly. Maybe things are less expensive in that regard outside the US? Even every three months or twice a year really would be great… My place is really not in great shape.
I wouldn't know, we can't afford one either. I doubt it's cheaper here than in the US. Cleaners have to be paid at least the national minimum wage, and unless you're sneaking them in and out at dead of night and paying cash, you have to pay their tax and national insurance for them as well.
Years ago, in our railroad-flat apartment in New York, my roommate and I paid a cleaning lady $8.00 to come in once a week. That was 1975. We later raised her to $10.00.
I paid a cleaning lady $40.00 a week for a two-bedroom apartment in Brooklyn, That was 2005.
Here in Arizona, I had to pay my cleaning lady $80.00 to clean my one-bedroom apartment once a month. She had asked for $100.00 but we were able to negotiate. I later raised her to $100.00 because she was very, very good.
My present apartment is also one bedroom, but somewhat larger than the previous one. I am sure I would have to pay someone at least $120.00 but it is not in my budget.
Meanwhile, back to the thread: How about expecting to mean pregnant?
Most gender specific nouns tend to be when the gender has no relevance to the job performed.
Exactly. And they tend to imply inferior status, at least in terms of authority in the workplace, and inferior pay. I’m pretty sure that historical reality is why most females who act seem to prefer to be called actors rather than actresses.
As for charwoman, I don’t think I’ve ever encountered it except in reference to Carol Burnett’s character
I persist in using "several" as Milton did - "to their several graves return" meaning, not that each ghost has a number of graves, but a number of ghosts each has one.
And back to the domestic front, do houses still have sculleries? Or larders? Or broom cupboards? Or a hotpress? Do you store things in a kist? Or sup from a porringer?
I keep up a fairly constant monologue in my waking hours and my mental vocabulary often makes use of archaic words. Unfortunately I don't often vocalise them as I don't have many opportunities to actually converse with anyone.
I'm quite partial to 'whomsoever' 'sennight' and the onomatapaeic 'tintinabulation'.
Also, thanks to Leonard Sachs, 'prestidigitation' is a long-time favourite
@Amanda B Reckondwyth why wouldn't you want to use a gender-neutral word for your profession, if the gender-specific term has connotations of 'less worthy of respect than a man,' 'just a pretty face,' and possibly even 'slept her way to the top?' But we're straying into Epiphanies territory now.
Continuing the theme of comestibles, I once had a stall at a church fair composing limericks to order and 'provender' got me out of a nasty hole. It has a good rhythm to it.
When my sons were young they were given a lovely book all about bodily noises. Unfortunately I can't remember author or title, but I'm pretty sure that was where I first came across the word borborygmus
I think Graham Greene wrote a short story with that as its title.
I persist in using "several" as Milton did - "to their several graves return" meaning, not that each ghost has a number of graves, but a number of ghosts each has one.
And back to the domestic front, do houses still have sculleries? Or larders? Or broom cupboards? Or a hotpress? Do you store things in a kist? Or sup from a porringer?
I do indeed still have a broom closet. It is where I keep my broom and vacuum.
My airing cupboard does not have any linen in it. And many modern houses have no broom closets or airing cupboards at all. Occasionally they have a half-sized cupboard under the stairs which isn't big enough to fit an ironing board in, or even an undersized teenage wizard.
Our understairs cupboard has the heat pump manifold so could double as an airing cupboard but it also hosts our main network switch and (currently) our router. We don't have a larder or scullery but we do have a pantry.
“Broom closet” and “linen closet” are still regularly years where the live.
“Cupboard,” on the other hand, is rarely heard here. When it is used, it’s understood to mean a kitchen or dining room cabinet where dishes or food are stored, not a closet or the like.
I persist in using "several" as Milton did - "to their several graves return" meaning, not that each ghost has a number of graves, but a number of ghosts each has one.
"Jointly and severally" still appears in legal documents, meaning, as far as I can tell, "You're all equally to blame if this goes wrong".
I persist in using "several" as Milton did - "to their several graves return" meaning, not that each ghost has a number of graves, but a number of ghosts each has one.
And back to the domestic front, do houses still have sculleries? Or larders? Or broom cupboards? Or a hotpress? Do you store things in a kist? Or sup from a porringer?
Hotpress (and press, for that matter) are still common in Dublin. Quite a few of the others here I use without thinking anything about it, but who knows (and to whom does it matter :-) ) whether my view reflects anybody else's.
'Tintinabulation' I had thought of as a very specific musical term associated with the composer Arvo Pärt. 'Arbos' (and particularly the version of the track 'Pari Intervallo' therein) is a favourite of mine.
I thought it had a broader meaning, but haven't checked. My relationship with the minister at our home congregation deteriorated rapidly when I referred to the sound the band made as a cacophonous tintinnabulation.
I persist in using "several" as Milton did - "to their several graves return" meaning, not that each ghost has a number of graves, but a number of ghosts each has one.
"Jointly and severally" still appears in legal documents, meaning, as far as I can tell, "You're all equally to blame if this goes wrong".
Close. “Joint and several liability”/“jointly and severally liable” means “even if only one of you breaches an obligation to me, I can sue you all jointly and sue each of you individually to recover my damages.”
I thought it had a broader meaning, but haven't checked. My relationship with the minister at our home congregation deteriorated rapidly when I referred to the sound the band made as a cacophonous tintinnabulation.
The second part of that splendid phrase would strictly have been true only if the band had bells or instruments which made bell-like sounds.
There is a not-so-fine line between speech and writing. In my experience, "whom" is seldom heard nowadays in speech but it still has a place in writing.
Is charwoman politically incorrect for cleaning lady?
All gendered terms for workers are disfavoured. Is it important that your cleaner is female? From observation, the cleaners at work are roughly 2:1 female:male. They all do the same work. I don't need a special word to distinguish male cleaners from female cleaners.
I persist in using "several" as Milton did - "to their several graves return" meaning, not that each ghost has a number of graves, but a number of ghosts each has one.
"Jointly and severally" still appears in legal documents, meaning, as far as I can tell, "You're all equally to blame if this goes wrong".
Close. “Joint and several liability”/“jointly and severally liable” means “even if only one of you breaches an obligation to me, I can sue you all jointly and sue each of you individually to recover my damages.”
My sis and I can act 'jointly and severally' with regards to my Dad's LPA (Lasting Power of Attorney) paperwork. In England that seems to mean that either one or both of us can, for instance, pay his bills or speak to a doctor on his behalf - the other need not be present. I just bring that up because it's a handy feature, given we live 300+ miles apart, and perhaps it'll stick in someone's mind who reads it here.
Interesting. Where I am, “joint and several” is a liability concept.
When it comes to co-agents under something like a power of attorney, the law here presumes that any agent is empowered to act independently unless the power of attorney (or other instrument) explicitly states that they can only act jointly.
Comments
When my sons were young they were given a lovely book all about bodily noises. Unfortunately I can't remember author or title, but I'm pretty sure that was where I first came across the word borborygmus
Are you an American?
Is charwoman politically incorrect for cleaning lady?
chambermaid or maid replaced by room attendant
steward and stewardess replaced by flight attendant
and the one whose loss I bemoan the most:
actress has almost disappeared. Performers of either sex are called actors by many.
It may interest you to know that there is a place on the Welsh Borders called Smockington. Which I have always thought sounded like the name of a supervillain's sidekick.
Meanwhile, I rather like 'whereas.'
Well, I certainly encountered that in D&D when I started at the age of 13 in 1980… But generally, I know about those sorts of things anyway.
Oh, some of the words people are listing here which I hadn’t really thought about as archaic that I use frequently would indeed be whom, ascend and ascending, and others. Vex and vexatious are ones I use frequently. Behoove. I think I just think of these as… I don’t think of them as archaic honestly but I don’t think of lots of things as archaic that other people might.
I know borborygmous, but not with an I at the end…
Yes, I use those words as well.
OMG all this time I thought it meant… something to do with chimneys or the like. I primarily know the term from a line in a CS Lewis book about there being two people in England at such and such a time that had fairy blood in them, one of whom was a duchess and the other of whom was a charwoman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maid_café
I would be thrilled to have a cleaner who comes in weekly or even monthly. Maybe things are less expensive in that regard outside the US? Even every three months or twice a year really would be great… My place is really not in great shape.
I paid a cleaning lady $40.00 a week for a two-bedroom apartment in Brooklyn, That was 2005.
Here in Arizona, I had to pay my cleaning lady $80.00 to clean my one-bedroom apartment once a month. She had asked for $100.00 but we were able to negotiate. I later raised her to $100.00 because she was very, very good.
My present apartment is also one bedroom, but somewhat larger than the previous one. I am sure I would have to pay someone at least $120.00 but it is not in my budget.
Meanwhile, back to the thread: How about expecting to mean pregnant?
Exactly. And they tend to imply inferior status, at least in terms of authority in the workplace, and inferior pay. I’m pretty sure that historical reality is why most females who act seem to prefer to be called actors rather than actresses.
As for charwoman, I don’t think I’ve ever encountered it except in reference to Carol Burnett’s character
And back to the domestic front, do houses still have sculleries? Or larders? Or broom cupboards? Or a hotpress? Do you store things in a kist? Or sup from a porringer?
I'm quite partial to 'whomsoever' 'sennight' and the onomatapaeic 'tintinabulation'.
Also, thanks to Leonard Sachs, 'prestidigitation' is a long-time favourite
No. It's more formal than archaic. Not part of most peoples' everyday speech.
Cheesy comestibles
Continuing the theme of comestibles, I once had a stall at a church fair composing limericks to order and 'provender' got me out of a nasty hole. It has a good rhythm to it.
Smocking is a form of embroidered, decorative gathering.
I think Graham Greene wrote a short story with that as its title.
I do indeed still have a broom closet. It is where I keep my broom and vacuum.
“Cupboard,” on the other hand, is rarely heard here. When it is used, it’s understood to mean a kitchen or dining room cabinet where dishes or food are stored, not a closet or the like.
We use both "linen closet" and "cupboard" regularly, here in the Midwest and beforehand in California.
I never encountered it until today.
"Jointly and severally" still appears in legal documents, meaning, as far as I can tell, "You're all equally to blame if this goes wrong".
Hotpress (and press, for that matter) are still common in Dublin. Quite a few of the others here I use without thinking anything about it, but who knows (and to whom does it matter :-) ) whether my view reflects anybody else's.
'Tintinabulation' I had thought of as a very specific musical term associated with the composer Arvo Pärt. 'Arbos' (and particularly the version of the track 'Pari Intervallo' therein) is a favourite of mine.
The second part of that splendid phrase would strictly have been true only if the band had bells or instruments which made bell-like sounds.
All gendered terms for workers are disfavoured. Is it important that your cleaner is female? From observation, the cleaners at work are roughly 2:1 female:male. They all do the same work. I don't need a special word to distinguish male cleaners from female cleaners.
My sis and I can act 'jointly and severally' with regards to my Dad's LPA (Lasting Power of Attorney) paperwork. In England that seems to mean that either one or both of us can, for instance, pay his bills or speak to a doctor on his behalf - the other need not be present. I just bring that up because it's a handy feature, given we live 300+ miles apart, and perhaps it'll stick in someone's mind who reads it here.
When it comes to co-agents under something like a power of attorney, the law here presumes that any agent is empowered to act independently unless the power of attorney (or other instrument) explicitly states that they can only act jointly.
/tangent
I was surprised to see it in an Indian newspaper in a story about a police chase.
'The miscreants fled across a car park ...'