Purgatory: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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  • .
    ...

    It makes you wonder if Biden could/would have been able to have done anything to prevent life being worse now.

    Surely you mean President Hillary R. Clinton, and yes, absolutely, life would have been better. Shee-it, Billy Bob, life would have been better with a Muppet at the Resolute desk.

    And I now want to see "We were never that scared" ads/swag/merch from Biden EVERYWHERE. :killingme:

    No, she's not running.

    Biden doesn't gain swing voters by convincing them that she would have done better than Trump. Biden has to convince them that HE would have done a better job containing Covid than Trump did (and/or that the dumb shite copper wouldn't have killed a man on his watch).

    I think you can make a case for Hillary, Obama even some reps but Biden? Don't think he'll convince the swing/can't be bothered voting sets.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    A very detailed poll done by CNN shows that Trump's support lost 7 points over the past week. Up to 63% of those polled thought Biden would do a better job when it comes to race relations. 38% still support Trump. In other words, only the hard corp right-wingers are behind him now. Now, a liberal PAC, American Bridge, is developing ads which will feature former Trump supporters to appeal to that group.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Penny S wrote: »
    It does seem unconnected to Vigano's previous activities as nuncio, exposer of homosexual and abusive activities within the RC church heirarchy and opposer of Pope Francis, which seem, from what I can make out, though not driven by attitudes I would share, sane.

    Viganò does have a history of coloring outside the Vatican lines when it comes to American culture war issues. Now that he doesn't have to worry about keeping his post as nuncio (because he burned that to the ground with the Kim Davis surprise papal audience) he's free to go full gonzo. And apparently he has.

    The letter also contains a number of what seem (to me) to be common anti-Semitic conspiracy tropes. "[T]he offspring of the Serpent". An "Invisible Enemy" controlling things from behind the scenes. "[G]lobalism". All of the dog whistle chart-toppers.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    T has repeatedly called the current corona virus "the Invisible Enemy"...
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    And speaking of bad ideas:
    The White House is preparing a speech on race relations written by Stephen Miller, who crafted the Trump Administration’s immigration plan along the southern border with Mexico.

    Yes, that Stephen Miller. I'm guessing this speech won't calm anything down, nor will it be designed to do so.
  • kbekbe Shipmate
    edited June 2020
    In his paranoid rage, when his con man tricks do not seem to be working, Trump has to project and lash out at any and all who oppose him. As his usual 'do or say anything and it is ok with us' base is beginning to shrink and his popularity wanes he is becoming less and less stable. Usual diversionary tactics failing I wouldn't put it past him to start a war to attempt to divert attention away from his multiple problems. When he loses the 2020 election...look out America..
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    In truth, I do not recall a president so despised as this president. Even during the Watergate Investigation, Richard Nixon was respected for the office he held. Nixon even met protesters at the Lincoln Memorial on May 7, 1970, shaking their hands and speaking with them. You will never see the current holder of the office meet with the protesters of today. Rather he will order the police to clear Lafeyette Plaza so he can stand in front of a church to hold a Bible (upside-down).
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    I got the above date wrong. It was 9 May 1970.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Why does Hillary qualify as a Muppet? And BTW: Muppets are very popular.

    This must have been covered on the Ship in the run up to the last American election, but I've never understood why Hillary was so unpopular. From this side of the Pond she looked great, and an easy winner. However, it is clear that lots of Americans hated her. Why?

    The far right have been running a hate campaign against her ever since it emerged that she was married to Bill Clinton and had opinions.

    "Her" being Hillary Clinton. But why was the campaign so successful? Shortly before the last American election there was a piece on the BBC where they interviewed many people who said they found it hard to know which candidate they despised least. This shocked me, as Hillary looked golden over here.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    ... Rather he will order the police to clear Lafeyette Plaza so he can stand in front of a church to hold a Bible (upside-down).
    I've heard a lot of people say this, but the ribbon markers were sticking out of the bottom of the Bible. I do think it took a while for him to get it correctly positioned, but in the photo op I'm pretty sure the Bible was right-side-up.

    There -- that's the first and last time for me (sort of) to come to Trump's defense.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Clinton won the popular vote didn’t she? Wasn’t it the electoral colleges who caused Trumps success.
  • Yes she did.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Now Trump has tweeted the 75-year-old man that was pushed shoved in Buffalo was a member of Antifa. This was based on a conspiracy theory put forward by the far right-wing One America Network. In truth, the man had long been a peace activist who has no affiliation with Antifa. Story here.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Why does Hillary qualify as a Muppet? And BTW: Muppets are very popular.

    This must have been covered on the Ship in the run up to the last American election, but I've never understood why Hillary was so unpopular. From this side of the Pond she looked great, and an easy winner. However, it is clear that lots of Americans hated her. Why?

    The far right have been running a hate campaign against her ever since it emerged that she was married to Bill Clinton and had opinions.

    "Her" being Hillary Clinton. But why was the campaign so successful? Shortly before the last American election there was a piece on the BBC where they interviewed many people who said they found it hard to know which candidate they despised least. This shocked me, as Hillary looked golden over here.

    I have the same reaction Robert. I am a big fan of Clinton. I wish I knew why folks can't see that she was exactly the woman America needed in 2016. She has been heavily smeared, and she is hated by the right for the pro-women thing (imagine that!) and by the left, just as ferociously in my experience, because she is a hawk on foreign policy. I think she has become a lightening rod for idiots in the States.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Now Trump has tweeted the 75-year-old man that was pushed shoved in Buffalo was a member of Antifa. This was based on a conspiracy theory put forward by the far right-wing One America Network. In truth, the man had long been a peace activist who has no affiliation with Antifa. Story here.

    It would be hard to have an affiliation with an adjective. There is no organization called Antifa, just people who describe themselves as antifa. Don't buy Trump's false narrative.
  • I'm an anti-fascist. So was Dwight D. Eisenhower, Harry S. Truman, George S. Patton and Douglas Macarthur.

    I suppose they were all part of the Deep State. But guess what? SO AM I. Bwaahahahaha
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    I'm an anti-fascist. So was Dwight D. Eisenhower, Harry S. Truman, George S. Patton and Douglas Macarthur.

    I suppose they were all part of the Deep State. But guess what? SO AM I. Bwaahahahaha

    Senator McCarthy, paging Senator McCarthy to the white courtesy phone.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Re Hillary:

    I voted for H every time, and even left the Green party so I could vote for her in the primary, and not just write her in. I was not a happy camper about her "losing". (Still not!) And I was furious with her for conceding so quickly. (Still some residual anger.)

    Her public persona has some rough and sharp edges. She gets into defensive mode. And she can trip over her own emotional baggage. But she's grown A LOT over the years.

    From various news coverage in 2016, and the background info given at the Dem convention that year, her parents fought constantly. (Her dad was a chief petty officer in the Navy. In her voiceover to a convention video about her, she said "he was a chief petty officer both in the Navy and at home".) The situation was so bad that she couldn't bring other kids over, and she stayed in her room.

    It seems that she was really frustrated, over the years, with obstacles to women in politics, public life, and anything beyond a homemaker role. And that sometimes boiled over in public, like her long-ago comment that she wasn't going to "stay at home and bake cookies".

    But she can also be wonderful and kind. A woman spoke at the 2016 convention about how H had supported her. The woman was injured in 9/11. Had an amputation. H was a senator from New York at the time. She sat with the woman in the hospital. Much later, they bumped into each other. H remembered her, asked about her prosthetic, etc.

    I just realized I could go on for many pages. So attempting tl;dr: She sometimes gets in her own way. She can be very kind. She's brilliant--maybe a different type of brilliance than her husband's, but formidable. Pres. Obama said she's the most qualified US presidential candidate ever, and I think she's right. Lawyer. First lady at state and national levels--and first ladies know a *lot*. Senator. Secretary of state. She coped with a whole lot of crap from the media, Republican bigwigs, and her husband. And I think it's important to note that *she didn't kill her husband*, even when he embarrassed her in front of the whole world. (There were rumors of things thrown and things shouted.) If she could manage that, she could most likely manage not to drop a nuke anywhere, and not to get the US into a war out of national or personal pride.

    Her husband had serious enemies who were seriously bent on taking him down. A lot of it was due to major culture clashing. And B has his own attitude problems. But the only thing they could proceed with was his affair with Monica Lewinsky. And he survived even that.

    I think a lot of the enemies' anger was redirected at Hillary. There really was the "vast, right-wing conspiracy" that she complained of--a member later admitted it. And it turned towards her.

    Anyway, IMHO, that's a good chunk of why the hatred for her.


  • Thanks GK. I get hate from the left when I say how I love Hillary. They seem to have swallowed/conveniently used the corruption smear against her. But they really hate her because she is a hawk on foreign policy. I think most of the leftists who attack me are Australian, left of the unions young people. Is there echoes of that in the USA on the left?

    On corruption, as far as I'm aware the allegations centre around the Clinton Foundation. They paint it as being like the Trump Foundation - just a way to income split. It's mostly BS, as far as I can make out.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    In truth, I do not recall a president so despised as this president. Even during the Watergate Investigation, Richard Nixon was respected for the office he held. Nixon even met protesters at the Lincoln Memorial on May 7, 1970, shaking their hands and speaking with them. You will never see the current holder of the office meet with the protesters of today. Rather he will order the police to clear Lafeyette Plaza so he can stand in front of a church to hold a Bible (upside-down).

    LBJ was widely despised, depending on a person's position on the Vietnam war. The protest chant "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many boys did you kill today?" might be more blunt and blatant than what current anti-T protestors use.
  • The famous saying in Australia at about that time was "All the way with LBJ." That was coined by conservative PM Harold Holt. The war was strongly opposed in Australia too, but I'm not sure whether Holt said it before or after large protests kicked off.
  • AnselminaAnselmina Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Why does Hillary qualify as a Muppet? And BTW: Muppets are very popular.

    This must have been covered on the Ship in the run up to the last American election, but I've never understood why Hillary was so unpopular. From this side of the Pond she looked great, and an easy winner. However, it is clear that lots of Americans hated her. Why?

    The far right have been running a hate campaign against her ever since it emerged that she was married to Bill Clinton and had opinions.

    And no doubt being dickless didn't help her.

    There's a lovely video on youtube of a reporter interviewing a female Trump reporter who's making the point that a woman couldn't be President. 'Too many hormones' apparently, women would be starting wars all over the place. The reporter asked her 'haven't all wars been started by men?' Pregnant pause before the woman replies: 'yes'.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    The famous saying in Australia at about that time was "All the way with LBJ." That was coined by conservative PM Harold Holt.
    That was actually LBJ's campaign slogan in 1964.

  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Anselmina wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Why does Hillary qualify as a Muppet? And BTW: Muppets are very popular.

    This must have been covered on the Ship in the run up to the last American election, but I've never understood why Hillary was so unpopular. From this side of the Pond she looked great, and an easy winner. However, it is clear that lots of Americans hated her. Why?

    The far right have been running a hate campaign against her ever since it emerged that she was married to Bill Clinton and had opinions.

    And no doubt being dickless didn't help her.

    In fairness I suspect they'd have been even less happy if she'd had a dick and been married to Bill Clinton.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Just came across the quote from a Facebook friend. The quote comes from Robert Hendrickson, Rector at St Philip's Episcopal Church, Tucson, Arizona.

    "This is an awful man, waving a book he hasn't read, in front of a church he doesn't attend, invoking laws he doesn't understand, against fellow Americans he sees as enemies, wielding a military he dodged serving, to protect power he gained by accepting foreign interference, exploiting fear and anger he loves to stoke, after failing to address a pandemic he was warned about, and building it all on a bed of constant lies and childish inanity".

    Now hear the word of the Lord!
  • Amen! Preach it, Rector!
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Just came across the quote from a Facebook friend. The quote comes from Robert Hendrickson, Rector at St Philip's Episcopal Church, Tucson, Arizona.

    aka St. Phil's in the Hills. :smile:

    I have not met Fr. Hendrickson, but I'm impressed!
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Regards, LBJ. Yes, his downfall was getting us into the quagmire of VietNam, but he oversaw the passage of major civil rights legislation including the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Fair Housing Act, and the Voting Rights Act. When he realized VietNam was tearing the nation apart, he declined said he would not seek the nomination of the Democratic party for President in 1968. It was most unfortunate that the war continued on for another six years after he left office.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited June 2020
    Hedgehog wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    The famous saying in Australia at about that time was "All the way with LBJ." That was coined by conservative PM Harold Holt.
    That was actually LBJ's campaign slogan in 1964.

    really? Wow! Bloody Holt, the only original thing he ever did was get picked up by a Chinese submarine off Portsea.
    Source
    Anselmina wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Why does Hillary qualify as a Muppet? And BTW: Muppets are very popular.

    This must have been covered on the Ship in the run up to the last American election, but I've never understood why Hillary was so unpopular. From this side of the Pond she looked great, and an easy winner. However, it is clear that lots of Americans hated her. Why?

    The far right have been running a hate campaign against her ever since it emerged that she was married to Bill Clinton and had opinions.

    And no doubt being dickless didn't help her.

    In fairness I suspect they'd have been even less happy if she'd had a dick and been married to Bill Clinton.


    :not-worthy;
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Regards, LBJ. Yes, his downfall was getting us into the quagmire of VietNam, but he oversaw the passage of major civil rights legislation including the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Fair Housing Act, and the Voting Rights Act. When he realized VietNam was tearing the nation apart, he declined said he would not seek the nomination of the Democratic party for President in 1968. It was most unfortunate that the war continued on for another six years after he left office.

    We were in Vietnam before LBJ.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Regards, LBJ. Yes, his downfall was getting us into the quagmire of VietNam, but he oversaw the passage of major civil rights legislation including the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Fair Housing Act, and the Voting Rights Act. When he realized VietNam was tearing the nation apart, he declined said he would not seek the nomination of the Democratic party for President in 1968. It was most unfortunate that the war continued on for another six years after he left office.

    We were in Vietnam before LBJ.

    Yes, I know that, but it was not until the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution that officially committed the full strength of our Armed Forces to the fight.

    In other news: The Trump people have announced he will have a campaign rally in Tulsa Oklahoma on June 19th. 99 years ago, there was a black massacre in Tulsa. BANG, he shoots himself in the foot again.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    In other news: The Trump people have announced he will have a campaign rally in Tulsa Oklahoma on June 19th. 99 years ago, there was a black massacre in Tulsa. BANG, he shoots himself in the foot again.
    How so? Looks like his administration's usual tactic of maximum provocation and diversion to me.
  • I heard it said that Trump wouldn't know about Tulsa, but Steven Miller does...
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    I heard it said that Trump wouldn't know about Tulsa, but Steven Miller does...

    .... and touches himself at the thought :vomit: [I've no idea why that is the end of the sentence that comes to mind, but once it had I felt I had to share]
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    If the anniversary of that massacre was knowingly, consciously chosen (by T, Miller, or T's minions) as a dog-whistle signal to white supremacists and/or to threaten/frighten African Americans, that's vile and inexcusable.

    But are wide swathes of people (of whatever ethnicity) apt to understand? I *think* I have something vague in the back of my mind about something awful happening to African Americans in Oklahoma, long ago. (Not that that was the only thing.) Maybe many/most African Americans are aware of that incident and anniversary?
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Addendum:

    Aha, I just realized (duh) that June 19th is Juneteenth (Wikipedia).
    Juneteenth (a portmanteau of "June" and "nineteenth"),[1] also known as Freedom Day,[2] Jubilee Day,[3] and Cel-Liberation Day,[4] is an American holiday celebrated on June 19. On June 19, 1865, the Emancipation Proclamation— which had been issued on January 1, 1863— was read to enslaved African Americans in Texas by Gordon Granger. Texas was the last Confederate State to have the proclamation announced, after the end of the American Civil War in April of that year. Texas was the most remote of the slave states, and minimal fighting meant there were few Union troops present to enforce the Emancipation Proclamation until after the war ended.

    Now, *that* is something a lot more people know about. And, unless there's a really, really weird coincidence, that date for the rally must've been chosen on purpose.

    Grrrr.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    He's doubling down. With the emphasis on "down". It's what he does. It's all he does.

    I wonder if a few protesters may try to get in as 5th columnists? Burn the Confederate flag?
  • Is Trump deliberately trying to incite yet more violence, and civil unrest, so that he can *legitimately* (as he sees it) send in the troops?
    :worried:
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Trump's style thrives on controversy and polarisation. My guess is that personally, he loves a fight and the limelight and this decision is sure to provide both, with the media unwitting contributors despite themselves.

    Is there a policy objective here? Well, this strategy ensures that his actions (or those of his staff) remain the focus of media attention (no such thing as bad publicity and keep well away from health crises and the like), offer more scope to lambast the media, potential for more civil unrest and thus attempted restrictions on civil liberties, and opportunities both to shore up his base and discredit any future election result against him ("vote could not possiby be fair at a time of such unrest and media bias, the common people too scared to come out and vote...", etc.).
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Now, *that* is something a lot more people know about. And, unless there's a really, really weird coincidence, that date for the rally must've been chosen on purpose.
    From what I have read, the spin is going to be that the Republican Party (you know, the party of Abraham Lincoln) is responsible for the Emancipation Proclamation and therefore "the blacks" can know that the Republican Party cares for them.

    Because, of course, when one thinks of Donald Trump, one immediately thinks: "He reminds me so much of Abraham Lincoln."

    So I don't think it is intended so much as a dog whistle to white supremacists as it is a cynical and transparent attempt to wrap themselves in the "We Really Care About You Little People" banner.

    :vomit:
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I agree. In the end the outcome will be determined by just how many see through that and recognise the underlying self interest. I hope that's at least 55% of the popular vote and at least an electoral college majority for Biden as big as the one Trump got.

    A bigger issue may simply be making safe arrangements for gathering and counting the vote. But that's probably a thought for the other thread.
  • Trump is coming to Phoenix on June 23 for a "Students for Trump" event at a megachurch. He's been gracing us with his presence quite a bit -- obviously worried that Arizona might flip blue, for him and his beloved Senator McSally (who was appointed to the post after losing the election).
  • O lucky Phoenix (not)...!
    :scream:

    Will he wave the obligatory Floppy Bible (KJV, of course) at the megachurch, I wonder?
    :grimace:

    (I noticed that the Bible he held up outside St John's wasn't, apparently, a Floppy Bible. It was, if that is so, not a Proper Evangelical Bible, and therefore proves that Trump is Of Satan).
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited June 2020
    Is Trump deliberately trying to incite yet more violence, and civil unrest, so that he can *legitimately* (as he sees it) send in the troops?
    :worried:

    In a tweet today, Trump has told the mayor of Seattle to get a handle on the ongoing protests there or HE will end it. Yesterday, Seattle protestors took over city hall and set up an "autonomous zone." They left the city hall at 10:30 pm with no arrests.

    To which, Mayor Dunkun replied, "Go back to your bunker."
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited June 2020
    If you were to put all this sh*te in a film, people would find it unrealistic...
    :grimace:

    He's itching to nuke somewhere, isn't he? Which is OK for him, as he'll be safe in his bunker. Again.
    :scream:
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    Is Trump deliberately trying to incite yet more violence, and civil unrest, so that he can *legitimately* (as he sees it) send in the troops?
    :worried:

    Yes.

    Maybe not consciously, but yes.

  • I'm pretty sure it is consciously. At least as much as any of his choices are conscious.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    His choices revolve around what he thinks makes him look good; but, in reality, he only shoots himself in the foot once again. I am surprised he can still stand.
  • O lucky Phoenix (not)...!
    :scream:

    Will he wave the obligatory Floppy Bible (KJV, of course) at the megachurch, I wonder?
    :grimace:

    (I noticed that the Bible he held up outside St John's wasn't, apparently, a Floppy Bible. It was, if that is so, not a Proper Evangelical Bible, and therefore proves that Trump is Of Satan).

    Actually, Phoenix is quite fortunate. He was seriously considering moving the Republican Convention here. (I have a feeling this is NOT going to be a peaceful event. I am so glad it will be in Florida, on the other side of the country.)

    The Bible was apparently handed to him by Ivanka, an Orthodox Jew. I don't even know if it included the New Testament. And he wouldn't even say if it was his Bible: "It's A Bible" quoth he.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited June 2020
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    O lucky Phoenix (not)...!
    :scream:

    Will he wave the obligatory Floppy Bible (KJV, of course) at the megachurch, I wonder?
    :grimace:

    (I noticed that the Bible he held up outside St John's wasn't, apparently, a Floppy Bible. It was, if that is so, not a Proper Evangelical Bible, and therefore proves that Trump is Of Satan).



    The Bible was apparently handed to him by Ivanka, an Orthodox Jew. I don't even know if it included the New Testament. And he wouldn't even say if it was his Bible: "It's A Bible" quoth he.

    There has to be a really good Jewish/Yiddish joke there, somewhere...
    :mrgreen:

    (Please don't have a go at me for anti-Semitism or something - Jewish jokes are just SO funny...I went to a wonderful Jackie Mason evening in London many years ago, at which myself and my Kiwi lady friend were the only Gentiles present).

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