Timeless Test Continued

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  • That word "really" is doing a lot of work.
  • MPaulMPaul Shipmate
    Well his parents live in NZ
  • Just watching Wood, I'd forgotten what really fast bowling looks like.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    I am not happy with the England team. If your number 3 is out injured you should replace them with someone who normally bats in the top 3. They had someone in the squad. Dan Lawrence
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    I was rather impressed by Gareth Southgate's interview on TMS at lunchtime - very thoughtful and interesting.
  • rhubarbrhubarb Shipmate
    I was appalled at the way Smith was treated by the crowd, considering he was playing a significant match in his career.
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    edited July 2023
    Agreed. Actually I find the whole reaction from England fans to the Carey/Bairstow "controversy" just despicable - much more against the "spirit of cricket" than anything Australia did.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Good Gravy! It has only been two days and we are already 4 wickets down in Australia's second innings. I'm guessing that there won't be much point to holding on to tickets for Day 5.....
  • I dunno, this morning has seen a definite return to traditional English Test cricket.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    It's now all in the balance.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    England win and I'm as happy as Harry.
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    It's been a very good series so far! 2-1 is probably a fair reflection of the balance of play.
  • MPaulMPaul Shipmate
    Yes, the 5 test format creates a lot more interest. Has wicket preparation changed things in cricket to advantage batting more?
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    MPaul wrote: »
    Yes, the 5 test format creates a lot more interest. Has wicket preparation changed things in cricket to advantage batting more?

    In one-day matches yes, the wickets and ball and fielding rules are tweaked to favour the bat. In Test matches I'd say no, the reverse if anything. A few decades ago there were many more draws - it would have been unremarkable (if a bit disappointing) for a 5-test series to end up with a 1-0 scoreline. Now draws are the exception rather than the rule. I think this is mostly due to more aggressive, risk-taking batting but it's also quite rare to see flat, dead pitches which (I seem to recall) were once quite common.
  • Lots of people saying that Bazball works, after Crawley's fireworks. I haven't a clue, but I caught my wife this morning muttering, it's much less important to win than entertain, so, as in all things, I will follow her.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Lots of people saying that Bazball works, after Crawley's fireworks. I haven't a clue, but I caught my wife this morning muttering, it's much less important to win than entertain, so, as in all things, I will follow her.

    I have always thought that it's most important to be able to compete with an excellent chance of winning. That has been the case in this current series.
  • Yeah, but there have been dour periods of Test cricket.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Yeah, but there have been dour periods of Test cricket.
    That's true but if you have good weather you don't get many draws these days
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    So after three and half great days of cricket, we have a washout and a draw. I am not asking for a return to timeless tests but I do believe that tests matches should be played over 450 overs
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited July 2023
    Root is asking for play to be extended in the evening so they can get in the full number of overs.

    Seems to me that getting a move on, possibly with penalties for a slow over rate, would be more sensible. (Of course fast bowlers will take longer than spinners).
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Root is asking for play to be extended in the evening so they can get in the full number of overs.

    Seems to me that getting a move on, possibly with penalties for a slow over rate, would be more sensible. (Of course fast bowlers will take longer than spinners).

    If you are supposed to bowl 90 overs a day, you should stay out there till they are bowled.
  • MPaulMPaul Shipmate
    Darn shame..that draw! As fan it makes the last test meaningless.
  • agingjbagingjb Shipmate
    edited July 2023
    The Ashes having gone, there was an opportunity to select 11 uncapped players for the meaningless Oval Test - useful experience. But I hardly think that cricket collectively works that way.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    MPaul wrote: »
    Darn shame..that draw! As fan it makes the last test meaningless.

    It's certainly not meaningless. A series draw against the world champions would be very good.
  • MPaulMPaul Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    MPaul wrote: »
    Darn shame..that draw! As fan it makes the last test meaningless.

    It's certainly not meaningless. A series draw against the world champions would be very good.

    Let's just say 'less' meaningful then. I will certainly be hoping for better weather for the final match.

    Regarding over rates, I think no compromise here, the captain needs to take responsibility of take the consequence. There is always a 'dibbly dobbler' who can get through a quick over or two.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    MPaul wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    MPaul wrote: »
    Darn shame..that draw! As fan it makes the last test meaningless.

    It's certainly not meaningless. A series draw against the world champions would be very good.

    Let's just say 'less' meaningful then. I will certainly be hoping for better weather for the final match.
    I agree.
    Regarding over rates, I think no compromise here, the captain needs to take responsibility of take the consequence. There is always a 'dibbly dobbler' who can get through a quick over or two.
    A captain can be fined some or all of his match fee but nothing to stop his country compensating him.
    Conditions permitting, keep them out there I say.
  • agingjbagingjb Shipmate
    Even if England were to score 910 for 5, with Root undefeated on 401, by lunch on the third day, and Australia were bowled out twice for around 300 each time; even then Australia would call England losers.

    In reality, win, lose, draw, tie, or match abandoned, Australia will just say "we retained the Ashes, we won".

    It is hard to regard a match as meaningful when one side is, to some extent, indifferent to its outcome.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    agingjb wrote: »
    Even if England were to score 910 for 5, with Root undefeated on 401, by lunch on the third day, and Australia were bowled out twice for around 300 each time; even then Australia would call England losers.

    In reality, win, lose, draw, tie, or match abandoned, Australia will just say "we retained the Ashes, we won".

    It is hard to regard a match as meaningful when one side is, to some extent, indifferent to its outcome.

    To merely retain the ashes is not a win. Personally, after seeing the ashes change hands several times in my lifetime, I am indifferent.
  • rhubarbrhubarb Shipmate
    I'm inclined to think that the Ashes competition is no longer desirable. It causes resentment and enmity between countries that should be friends.
  • MPaulMPaul Shipmate
    rhubarb wrote: »
    I'm inclined to think that the Ashes competition is no longer desirable. It causes resentment and enmity between countries that should be friends.

    I think at bottom we are good friends with a good friendly rivalry.
    I wish India would play Pakistan more often though.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    After 2 days I reckon it is very even.
    If England bat well in second innings it comes down to the timing of a declaration, unless they are all out of course.
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    Good fightback from Australia who were really up against it at 7 down for less than 200. Hope the weather holds - anyone's match if so!
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Good fightback from Australia who were really up against it at 7 down for less than 200. Hope the weather holds - anyone's match if so!

    Cummins is a very useful number 9
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    Good total from England. Should win from here weather permitting! Would be nice to give Stuart Broad a victorious send-off.
  • MPaulMPaul Shipmate
    Yep I would agree if it was the end of day 4 not day 3.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    A great test series and it ends all square.

    However, we should have won the first test and we lost, we could have won the 2nd test and we lost. We would have won the 4th test but for the weather.
  • MPaulMPaul Shipmate
    Woo hoo! For Bazball. Great sport defining series. Great effort on the final day by England.
  • agingjbagingjb Shipmate
    I wonder if this will be the final test for James Anderson. I feel he deserves at least as much celebration as Broad when he goes.

    A fantasy. He can already bowl off-cutters. He can bowl accurately. He is fit. Could he switch to spin, with a optional faster ball, and extend his career, even in tests, for another few years?

    A fantasy of course, but Anderson surpassing Warne, and better still Murali, would please me if no-one else.

    Oh well.
  • MPaulMPaul Shipmate
    Nice for Broad to get a win in his final test.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    agingjb wrote: »
    I wonder if this will be the final test for James Anderson. I feel he deserves at least as much celebration as Broad when he goes.

    A fantasy. He can already bowl off-cutters. He can bowl accurately. He is fit. Could he switch to spin, with a optional faster ball, and extend his career, even in tests, for another few years?

    A fantasy of course, but Anderson surpassing Warne, and better still Murali, would please me if no-one else.

    Oh well.

    Jimmy has been a great player for England but I am sad to say that he is no longer worth his place in the side.

  • MPaulMPaul Shipmate
    Anderson is still superb on a track that is doing a bit but he has had a long career for a quickie. The body wears out in the end.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    MPaul wrote: »
    Anderson is still superb on a track that is doing a bit but he has had a long career for a quickie. The body wears out in the end.

    In this series, Jimmy bowled very economically in all his 4 games but only 5 wickets at an average of 85.40.
  • rhubarbrhubarb Shipmate
    England needs to sort the weather out. It is very difficult to hold test matches when the game keeps stopping and starting due to rain.
  • MPaulMPaul Shipmate
    It seems like Australia imploded here. The game seemed theirs to lose at lunch on day 5. There was some commanding shots from Smith and Head whose dismissal was a turning point for mine. Test cricket seems to be all about pressure and stamina. Was home town advantage and a judicious ball change a factor in this win?
    Should Smith have been out to Moeen Ali? Deemed to not have been caught cleanly apparently.
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    Did you know that Moeen Ali is the third most successful England spinner of all time? He has taken more wickets than Jim Laker. Only Underwood and Swann have taken more. Admittedly he is very expensive (average 37.31) but 204 wickets in 68 Tests is not to be sneezed at.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Did you know that Moeen Ali is the third most successful England spinner of all time? He has taken more wickets than Jim Laker. Only Underwood and Swann have taken more. Admittedly he is very expensive (average 37.31) but 204 wickets in 68 Tests is not to be sneezed at.

    It depends on how you measure success. He has taken 11 more wickets than Laker but played 22 more tests. Lakers average was 21.24.

    Ali has played in a total 202 first class games and 68 games have been test matches. He has taken a total of 391 wickets which means that he only took 187 wickets in the 134 games which were not tests. He was not given sufficient opportunites by his county sides and it could be argued that he learnt to bowl in test matches.
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    Telford wrote: »
    Did you know that Moeen Ali is the third most successful England spinner of all time? He has taken more wickets than Jim Laker. Only Underwood and Swann have taken more. Admittedly he is very expensive (average 37.31) but 204 wickets in 68 Tests is not to be sneezed at.

    It depends on how you measure success. He has taken 11 more wickets than Laker but played 22 more tests. Lakers average was 21.24.

    Ali has played in a total 202 first class games and 68 games have been test matches. He has taken a total of 391 wickets which means that he only took 187 wickets in the 134 games which were not tests. He was not given sufficient opportunites by his county sides and it could be argued that he learnt to bowl in test matches.

    Yes I'd agree. He was originally picked for his batting. I would not argue that he is a better bowler than Laker but I think his record shows he's rather more considerable a bowler than he has sometimes been given credit for.
  • MPaulMPaul Shipmate
    I always rated Moeen Ali as a batter almost as much as bowler without being aware of his stats so that is interesting. It always seemed to me that Graeme Swan retired to early. Was it injury or did he see the writing on the wall that he was going to be dropped? Games where he was involved had a lot of interest. I will miss Broad as well for the passion he brings to the tussle.
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    A fantastic result for Afghanistan at the World Cup - I cannot begrudge them this thumping victory!
  • MPaul wrote: »
    I always rated Moeen Ali as a batter almost as much as bowler without being aware of his stats so that is interesting. It always seemed to me that Graeme Swan retired to early. Was it injury or did he see the writing on the wall that he was going to be dropped? Games where he was involved had a lot of interest. I will miss Broad as well for the passion he brings to the tussle.

    Swann retired in the middle of an Ashes series - his side of the story was that he realised he couldn't feel his hand, having had a lot of elbow surgery, and as such couldn't control the ball any more, and the coach said "Fine, you stay and play or you retire and go home". I don't know how true that is but, having bowled with a numb hand, if it is true he's got a point - I never bowled such garbage in all my days.
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