This experience helped bring me back to the Ship
ChastMastr
Shipmate
in Hell
I know the title doesn’t sound Hellish, but it is a rant.
A few months back, I joined a Christian fandom (general nerd/geek stuff) group on Facebook. I also joined a related Christian theology discussion group on Facebook. The theology one kicked me out first for being gay and for having liberal/progressive politics, which the admin told me was “being a friend of the World.” 🙄
As for the other one, I commented on a thread after a long, long back and forth about LGBTQ stuff. This is that comment, and it is a bit of a rant, so it seemed like Hell was the best place to post this.
So I left the group.
Er, that’s it, really. Glad to be back here. I know, not much of a rant, but still.
A few months back, I joined a Christian fandom (general nerd/geek stuff) group on Facebook. I also joined a related Christian theology discussion group on Facebook. The theology one kicked me out first for being gay and for having liberal/progressive politics, which the admin told me was “being a friend of the World.” 🙄
As for the other one, I commented on a thread after a long, long back and forth about LGBTQ stuff. This is that comment, and it is a bit of a rant, so it seemed like Hell was the best place to post this.
I’m so tired. Yes, I’m gay. (I feel like I’m the only one in the group.) Yes, I’m politically very liberal. (I feel like I’m the only one of those, too.) I’m also very definitely a believing Christian, as orthodox as I know how to be, by the best understanding I have. I wish you all well, and anybody who wants to send me a friend request please do, but I’m just tired of the arguing in the group (“woke” as an insult, attacks on LGBTQ folks, the occasional anti-Catholic rant, the endless anti-evolution stuff, the assumption that real Christians are all inerrantists, literalists, sola scriptura, politically conservative, etc.), nephilim, hating current Disney and/or any current franchise (again, “woke” as an insult), a lot of stuff like that), and I don’t have it in me, when I see certain things, to just not engage with them—but even disagreeing politely never seems to end well, and always seems to lead to more conflict. So I’m flouncing off for now, but if anyone who has liked my posts or comments wants to send a friend request, please do. God bless you all and take care.
So I left the group.
Er, that’s it, really. Glad to be back here. I know, not much of a rant, but still.
Comments
I get it. I am very orthodox (small 'o') but have so many questions, doubts, conflicts about my faith. Not helped by my waxing and waning mental health but I think I've worked out over the years how to manage that.
Anyway, I cannot stand how some people claim Christianity to mean certain things whilst ignoring and despising so much of Jesus' teaching. Reading your rant, that's exactly what you seem to be describing to me.
Just as a quick aside, here's a working definition of woke that I think we should proudly proclaim: link
You may find listening to John Fugelsang therapeutic. He's passionate and very effective at calling out this kind of hypocrisy.
AFZ
Your rant reminds me of the time I was invited to pop into a Catholic forum by a friend and made what I thought was an innocuous comment about some long-dead Pope (John XXIII?) and all the Traddies who had been fighting with one another, joyfully united as one to attack me for my vile sedevacantist heresy and not knowing that since the death of Pius XII the alleged occupiers of the Holy See are not valid popes, never, never, never. Quite exhilarating to be instantly excommunicated and thrown off the forum as if my opinion mattered, but on reflection I should have known better than to go near a forum like that.
Was thrown off the Old Ship for giving an emeritus admin a well-deserved serve: climbed back on board New Ship after “
All is forgiven” amnesty in 2020 ( they might have been a little bit desperate??😂).
Another board I posted on ( cathnews Australia) was shut down at the order of the late and unlamented ++George Syneiensis ( Pell) some years back. The trads and trids hated the likes of meself. It did not occur to that lot that dissent flourishes in their presence. I did feel sorry for the moderator who was bullied from above.
A nest of vipers….
What is the reference to 'nephilim' @ChastMastr ?
You not delved into the murky world of internet conspiracy theories?
From ancient giants to flat earth, the crossover with mostly USA fundamentalist Christianity is huge.
Not surprising, given that the similarity to Creationism is very noticeable - mainstream science is a Satanic conspiracy, hiding the truth from you so you don't believe your Bible etc. etc. etc.
It's a deeply cynical conflation of various fringe theories which have finally been brought together to add fresh impetus from the religious right when the other strands looked like petering out naturally. When you bring God into it, it adds a different aspect and emphasis.
We're special just like everyone else.
I have only glanced around a few other fora and FB groups. There's every possible cat and dog out there.
Problem is, when you're convinced that being wrong about certain issues means an eternity burning in Hell everything else is up for grabs. It's the same reasoning that fuelled the Inquisition. Sure, torturing and burning people's not great, but if it saves people from being damned for believing their heresy then...
Dafyd Hell Host
...like Jesus?
I wish! No, it’s a particular type of US fundamentalist evangelicalism mostly. If there’s trolling, it’s from that point of view.
Oh dear. OK a very very quick brief summary of the concept in this context: The Bible refers in Genesis to giants in the Earth and references to the sons of God having kids with the daughters of men. There have been various interpretations of this having to do with the sons of God being fallen angels. But also to those being the sons of Seth and the daughters of Cain I believe (which has been, whether symbolic or literal, the position of most mainstream churches from Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox and Anglican to most Protestants since relatively early in the Christian Church, once a more specific angelology was hammered out).
In recent years, there’s been a huge uptick among a certain type of Christian Fundamentalist in believing that these were literal offspring of fallen angels and humans (and almost always in a young earth creationist context). I think it’s entirely possible to have all kinds of very weird things in our world (for goodness’ sake, I believe in faeries), but I’m not specifically convinced of this one.
Now, this could be a comparatively harmless notion, and probably make a great novel, but in more recent times, it’s dragged in some creepy additional stuff (“God had the Israelites wipe out various tribes because they had Nephilim blood, and He wanted to make sure the human bloodline was pure!” “The Nephilim are still around, and are involved in political conspiracy theories, including weird stuff about making people’s genes not fully human [see also crazy notions about vaccines altering DNA to make us not quite human] and thus, since only humans can be saved, damning all those with altered genes to Hell!” Both of which, whatever you think about the Old Testament God-directed Israelite slaughters, make God … weird and horrible. I swear, the whole “altered genes come from the Devil and mean you’re un-saveable, even by God Himself” thing sounds right out of some actual X-Men villains. (There’s a powerful graphic novel called God Loves, Man Kills about just such a villain, an evil televangelist who considers mutants to be the creation of the Devil…) And the “tainted bloodline” thing—oy. Anything with that phrase should be a huge red flag. We’ve already had “these people count as less human, so we can do whatever we like to them,” thankyouverymuch. *shudder*
As a side note, while for some time this kind of fundamentalism would normally reject any non-canonical (Protestant standard) Scripture out of hand (the Apocrypha in the RC canon, etc.), they’re going ga-ga over the book of Enoch, which gets a lot into this notion of Nephilim. It’s very weird to see Fundamentalists, including sola scriptura ones, recommend something like that, which never would have happened a few decades ago, or so it seems to me.
… And that’s just one of the delightful things that I had to deal with in that group…
Thanks @KarlLB I've been struggling with that question and unable to work out why some people are so virulent in their beliefs, but that makes a twisted kind of sense.
@ChastMastr - Good to see you again.
I'm in a fairly liberal URC/Baptist ecumenical partnership church and actually my (same sex) partner died this morning. Had a chat with our minister lunchtime who had prayed for us this morning in church (before they knew she'd actually slipped away) as my 'loved one'...he asked my permission to describe her as my 'partner' in future communications to church members....my response yes of course, most of my closest friends at church already know, it's unlikely that there would be many in a church like ours that would not be accepting, and if there are some ... tough, deal with it.
🙏
Your church's acceptance does them credit.
@ChastMastr, good to have you back.
@ChastMastr , good to see you here again.
Oh my God I’m so sorry. Prayers and hugs and love. As you may remember Cubby (QuakerCub) passed three years ago. Xxx ooo
@ChastMastr - welcome back. Good to have you here again.
I know from my experience that so many "Christian" groups that I might have some interest in or contribution to are taken over by the US Religious Right (not the fault of the US or US shipmates) and seek to promote a specific form of their views.
These people pollute the web over and over, and it is rant-worthy. And I say that as someone who was an evangelical - but never quite as raving as these people.
Thanks for advice but fear not; if there is a rump left ( which I doubt) they would not pollute their brains by looking at a “protestant” ( I quote) site such as this.
Anyway site imploded as some thought the owner was not sufficiently traditionalist.
No names, no pack drill.
We do not, under any circumstances, comment on other named discussion forums. Even if they are defunct. Even if the chances of any member of that forum visiting us are infinitesimally small.
We just do not do that.
Because, we don't want others doing the same to us (I do believe someone said something like "do unto others as you would have them do unto you").
Alan
Ship of Fools Admin
@Gracious Rebel my deepest sympathies, and I hope that you continue to receive the tender care that you need and deserve at this difficult time.
Welcome back, anyway.
Oh, I understand! And thank you. ❤️
Cool! ❤️
Welcome back!
Thank you!
Human women could not bear giant children and live. The nephilim would have died at birth too. These UFO aficioadoes are all men, and I suspect the same goes for religious believers of this daft story. What do they think the story is supposed to teach us about life now? And women? Like Tertullian, that we all bear the guilt of Eve?
So sorry, @Gracious Rebel -- peace to you.
My assumption is your return would be solely due to my prolific erudite posting.*
*Pleased to use my 2024 quota to say welcome back.
This is clearly a pond difference going on here. In the UK The Nephilim aka Fields of the Nephilim aka The Neph were a 1980s Goth Rock group who, AFAIK, had no plans for world domination!
Originally posted by KarlLB:
I think this imbues such people with an entirely undeserved Satanic grandeur. A clear demarcation as to who is in and who is out gives some people a comforting awareness of their own salvation. It also gives them an equally comforting awareness of other peoples damnation. To paraphrase Gore Vidal: It is not enough that I be saved; others must be damned. They are not Tragic Heroes, who have Fallen As Only Angels Can Fall, Doing Evil That Good May Prevail. They are a bunch of insecure muppets who are frightened and confused by the word and want it to stop. The older I get, the more I empathise.
Wit hthe modern understanding of how we have arrived where we are, I wonder if they might have been an old folk memory of Neandertals.
We believe that Neanderthals were replaced by modern humans in the Middle East by about 50kya. Palestine was the very limit of their known distribution. I think on balance it's unlikely.
I mooted this theory on a previous thread somewhere and it didn't gain much support.
Also reading Genesis 6:1-4 it says 'the sons of God' bred with the 'daughters of men' and then it sort of says 'Oh by the way the Nephilim were around at that time'. Then they are mentioned again in Numbers 13:33 as being 'of great size'. But Neanderthals are reckoned to have been shorter than Homo sapiens, though more stocky. So who knows?!
Oh I agree. I read about Aboriginal people having corroborated folk memories going back to the end of the ice age when sea levels rose and some coastal land or islands disappeared.
See you 'round campus.