I've just watched a rather nice (10 year old) programme on BBC4 about railways in Northern Ireland. Some nice, if short, clips of the Sligo, Leitrim and Northern Counties Railway, of the Great Northern's "Bundoran Express" and even a clip (rather out of place) of the Dundalk, Greenore and Newry - is this the only colour cinefilm of genuine LNWR paintwork?
There was also a rather fuzzy clip of what may have been a "Jeep" on the UTA line ... or was it a Standard 4 tank on the Somerset and Dorset?
Yes, but which Caledonian blue? I think there must have been at least three. Black and white photos can be misleading, but one book I have - not sure which one - noted differing shades depending on the period and which works did the painting. This is very useful for modellers, who can choose the one they like and defend it against the critics.
This video of Irish railways in the 1940s and 50s includes some colour footage of the DN&G, with one of the 0-6-STs at the head of the train! There are some shots of the GNR(I) JT 2-4-2Ts as well - pretty little engines.
Fast forward to about 34 minutes - the DN&G section begins in 1947 in monochrome, but morphs into colour in 1950 after a little while:
Many thanks for the link, BF. My interest in Irish railways is increasing after a recent visit, and that was just what I had been looking for. (Happily, a copy of Tom Ferris' Irish Railways: A New History, has just arrived.
The loco I would like to see reproduced is the NWNGR's 'single Fairlie 'Moel Tryfan, sadly scrapped as unsavable and probably not powerful enough for today's WHR trains.
Does anyone know what colour 22xx' 0-6-0 No 2225 would have been?
Photo "The brooding Mendip Hills dominate the skyline as "22xx' 0-6-0 No 2225 runs past the goods shed into Axbridge with a Wells-Bristol freight in 1952. The signalbox opened on 14 July 1907 replacing an earlier Saxby & Farmer box that stood on the down platform. Photo by J. H. Moss
Cheddar end of the station, another siding serving a loading dock at the Yatton end also on the up side of the station layout. Passengers awaiting trains on the down platform had a wooden waiting shelter in which to escape the severe weather that can occur at times in the Mendip Hills."
Steaming through Cheddar Valley by Derek Phillips.
The answer must be, "Has it been through shops since nationalisation?" If it has, then unlined BR black; if not, then faded GWR unlined green. Or so I'd have thought.
The answer must be, "Has it been through shops since nationalisation?" If it has, then unlined BR black; if not, then faded GWR unlined green. Or so I'd have thought.
The answer must be, "Has it been through shops since nationalisation?" If it has, then unlined BR black; if not, then faded GWR unlined green. Or so I'd have thought.
So would I.
GW fans - would the smokebox door number-plate have been fitted post-1948 by BR? I thought the GW didn't usually provide them, but it may be that the engine had been through shops, in which case it might well be in BR black...
The answer must be, "Has it been through shops since nationalisation?" If it has, then unlined BR black; if not, then faded GWR unlined green. Or so I'd have thought.
So would I.
GW fans - would the smokebox door number-plate have been fitted post-1948 by BR? I thought the GW didn't usually provide them, but it may be that the engine had been through shops, in which case it might well be in BR black...
Tended to get fitted before repaints - I’m sure I’ve seen photos of GW livery (as in proper GW, not just green) with smoke box numbers
The answer must be, "Has it been through shops since nationalisation?" If it has, then unlined BR black; if not, then faded GWR unlined green. Or so I'd have thought.
So would I.
GW fans - would the smokebox door number-plate have been fitted post-1948 by BR? I thought the GW didn't usually provide them, but it may be that the engine had been through shops, in which case it might well be in BR black...
Tended to get fitted before repaints - I’m sure I’ve seen photos of GW livery (as in proper GW, not just green) with smoke box numbers
OK. I wasn't sure, knowing little about GW engines.
The answer must be, "Has it been through shops since nationalisation?" If it has, then unlined BR black; if not, then faded GWR unlined green. Or so I'd have thought.
So would I.
GW fans - would the smokebox door number-plate have been fitted post-1948 by BR? I thought the GW didn't usually provide them, but it may be that the engine had been through shops, in which case it might well be in BR black...
Tended to get fitted before repaints - I’m sure I’ve seen photos of GW livery (as in proper GW, not just green) with smoke box numbers
OK. I wasn't sure, knowing little about GW engines.
I’d say you’re missing out, but I’ve been posting here long enough to know better
Incidentally, I’ll acknowledge my GW ‘problem’ - my interests are wide and Catholic; the Lynton and Barnstaple, the Talyllyn, the Mid Suffolk, the Isle of Man, the Great Central, Edward Thompson; but when it comes down to it it has always been Swindon really.
The BR numberplates are just that. The GW had painted numbers on the buffer beam.
The loco's painting history is almost certainly known, because only Hitler and the American Civil War have more publications than the GW. My guess at this early date would be BR lined black, GW unlined green, or just possibly GW wartime black.
Attractive little engines. At one point I had two in 00 scale, but they are long gone.
BTW a few GW engines retained GW livery for a very long time. I think the Aberystwyth station pilot was one such. It was a sort of 'pet' and they somehow kept it away from works for years. I gather one engine (whether this or another) was still in GW livery in 1964!
The answer must be, "Has it been through shops since nationalisation?" If it has, then unlined BR black; if not, then faded GWR unlined green. Or so I'd have thought.
So would I.
GW fans - would the smokebox door number-plate have been fitted post-1948 by BR? I thought the GW didn't usually provide them, but it may be that the engine had been through shops, in which case it might well be in BR black...
Tended to get fitted before repaints - I’m sure I’ve seen photos of GW livery (as in proper GW, not just green) with smoke box numbers
I've also seen photos of ex GWR and LNER locos in new BR liveries, with 5 figure numbers in the case of LNER ones, with no smokebox door number-plate and their numbers painted on the front buffer beam. The same may well have applied on the Southern.
I know of at least one case of an ex LMS loco that managed to be renumbered with its 5 figure number and still be in red, which means it had last had a full repair and been repainted sometime in 1940.
Having said that, it's impossible to tell from the Axbridge photo whether that loco's boiler is grubby green or grubby black, but the plain front buffer beam and the BR shed plate slightly inclines me towards grubby black.
Are you specifically modelling 2225 on a particular date in 1952 or a 2251 in the early 1950s, in which case it's your choice anyway?
Crewe got away with resisting front number plates in the 1920s as a nasty Midland innovation, and their Super Ds never had them right through until their demise in the 1960s.
My Dad was a model engineer - he had a wonderful layout in his loft, much loved by us all - but he sold all his trains late in life without telling us. 😢
My Dad was a model engineer - he had a wonderful layout in his loft, much loved by us all - but he sold all his trains late in life without telling us. 😢
Well I think we can all agree you’ve stumbled into the wrong thread and I can only pray for you 😂
*joking*
Everyone in railways cares about getting it right. Far too much. I include myself.
But it’s lovely that you want to do something for your late father and I hope we’ve helped. The answer’s green or black. All over. No lining.
Crewe got away with resisting front number plates in the 1920s as a nasty Midland innovation, and their Super Ds never had them right through until their demise in the 1960s.
If you watch the "Railway Roundabout" film of the last train along the Heads of the Valleys line, you'll see that the Coal Tank didn't have one either.
After a few which appeared briefly in the late 1920s with numbers on their smoke box doors, it seems to have been a pretty consistent act of minor insubordination on the part of Crewe works with regard to what had originally been their own productions. Even 6004, which was reputed to be still in red under the grime in 1948, didn't have one.
After a few which appeared briefly in the late 1920s with numbers on their smoke box doors, it seems to have been a pretty consistent act of minor insubordination on the part of Crewe works with regard to what had originally been their own productions. Even 6004, which was reputed to be still in red under the grime in 1948, didn't have one.
Yes. I think I've also seen photos/videos of the LNWR 0-6-0 tender engines, in BR days, without number-plates.
@Boogie with a very serious geek warning, here is an article I've found on the complex subject of liveries carried by ex-GWR locos in the BR era.
The picture of the Star in plain green makes it perfect to my eye! I have always thought of it as an almost perfectly proportioned locomotive (visually), not needing the fussiness of lining. I feel the same way about the Jones engines on the Highland Railway, but understand that some others may quite possibly disagree.
Having recently tumbled into the rabbit-hole of modelling early railways (thanks to various manufacturers producing quite exquisite models!), I'm enjoying reading books on the subject.
I've just acquired a copy of Dendy Marshall's A history of British railways down to the year 1830, and it's interesting to learn that the first railway which could be used by the general public for the carriage of freight (as opposed to lines devoted solely to the haulage of minerals) was opened in 1798 - the euphoniously-named Lake Lock Rail Road in Yorkshire...
The Stockton & Darlington bi-centenary next year marks the opening of something of a Johnny-come-lately amongst early railways! Still, I'm looking forward to receiving my pre-ordered model of Locomotion, courtesy of Hornby. The pre-production working sample looks amazing...
Having recently tumbled into the rabbit-hole of modelling early railways (thanks to various manufacturers producing quite exquisite models!), I'm enjoying reading books on the subject.
It's interesting to learn that the first railway which could be used by the general public for the carriage of freight (as opposed to lines devoted solely to the haulage of minerals) was opened in 1798 - the euphoniously-named Lake Lock Rail Road in Yorkshire...
Yes, I'd have immediately answered "Surrey Iron Railway" - and been wrong!
Harking back to an earlier topic, the Bluebell Railway had some fun yesterday, steaming their shiny new 12-inches-to-the-foot live-steam model of 32424 Beachy Head, with a rather mixed rake of coaches:
Comments
There was also a rather fuzzy clip of what may have been a "Jeep" on the UTA line ... or was it a Standard 4 tank on the Somerset and Dorset?
The nicest would surely be an SECR D class in original livery ... and we have one!
The GNR(I) blue is nice - very like the Caledonian, I guess.
There may be more than one colour film of the Dundalk Newry & Greenore, but yes, the livery was genuine LNWR right up to closure at the end of 1951.
Not quite - one lasted until closure, and another almost got itself preserved:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotives_of_the_Dundalk,_Newry_and_Greenore_Railway
Fast forward to about 34 minutes - the DN&G section begins in 1947 in monochrome, but morphs into colour in 1950 after a little while:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF3IOgEjGiU
There are quite a few interesting old railway films on YouTube, but they do tend to send you down a rabbit-hole for hours and hours.
https://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Taliesin_III
Photo "The brooding Mendip Hills dominate the skyline as "22xx' 0-6-0 No 2225 runs past the goods shed into Axbridge with a Wells-Bristol freight in 1952. The signalbox opened on 14 July 1907 replacing an earlier Saxby & Farmer box that stood on the down platform. Photo by J. H. Moss
Cheddar end of the station, another siding serving a loading dock at the Yatton end also on the up side of the station layout. Passengers awaiting trains on the down platform had a wooden waiting shelter in which to escape the severe weather that can occur at times in the Mendip Hills."
Steaming through Cheddar Valley by Derek Phillips.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uRUp6eYK84WXVUk69
Thank you! I think I'll paint it green. 🙂
So would I.
GW fans - would the smokebox door number-plate have been fitted post-1948 by BR? I thought the GW didn't usually provide them, but it may be that the engine had been through shops, in which case it might well be in BR black...
Tended to get fitted before repaints - I’m sure I’ve seen photos of GW livery (as in proper GW, not just green) with smoke box numbers
OK. I wasn't sure, knowing little about GW engines.
I’d say you’re missing out, but I’ve been posting here long enough to know better
The loco's painting history is almost certainly known, because only Hitler and the American Civil War have more publications than the GW. My guess at this early date would be BR lined black, GW unlined green, or just possibly GW wartime black.
Attractive little engines. At one point I had two in 00 scale, but they are long gone.
BTW a few GW engines retained GW livery for a very long time. I think the Aberystwyth station pilot was one such. It was a sort of 'pet' and they somehow kept it away from works for years. I gather one engine (whether this or another) was still in GW livery in 1964!
I know of at least one case of an ex LMS loco that managed to be renumbered with its 5 figure number and still be in red, which means it had last had a full repair and been repainted sometime in 1940.
Having said that, it's impossible to tell from the Axbridge photo whether that loco's boiler is grubby green or grubby black, but the plain front buffer beam and the BR shed plate slightly inclines me towards grubby black.
Are you specifically modelling 2225 on a particular date in 1952 or a 2251 in the early 1950s, in which case it's your choice anyway?
Crewe got away with resisting front number plates in the 1920s as a nasty Midland innovation, and their Super Ds never had them right through until their demise in the 1960s.
My Dad was a model engineer - he had a wonderful layout in his loft, much loved by us all - but he sold all his trains late in life without telling us. 😢
Well I think we can all agree you’ve stumbled into the wrong thread and I can only pray for you 😂
*joking*
Everyone in railways cares about getting it right. Far too much. I include myself.
But it’s lovely that you want to do something for your late father and I hope we’ve helped. The answer’s green or black. All over. No lining.
As I said (and may I be forgiven) I know diddly-squat about those funny little GW engines, which all look the same to me*...
@Boogie - here's one in unlined green, as used on some of the class by British Railways post-1948:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:GWR_2251_Class_3205#/media/File:3205_at_South_Devon_Railway_(8119592831).jpg
YMMV, but your painting IMHO would look better in this livery, rather than all-over black!
(*I'll get me grease-top and me overalls).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcxUwapeDbs
Yes. I think I've also seen photos/videos of the LNWR 0-6-0 tender engines, in BR days, without number-plates.
So much knowledge all in one place!
:notworthy: (I miss that emoji!)
Do share the finished painting with us!
The picture of the Star in plain green makes it perfect to my eye! I have always thought of it as an almost perfectly proportioned locomotive (visually), not needing the fussiness of lining. I feel the same way about the Jones engines on the Highland Railway, but understand that some others may quite possibly disagree.
I've just acquired a copy of Dendy Marshall's A history of British railways down to the year 1830, and it's interesting to learn that the first railway which could be used by the general public for the carriage of freight (as opposed to lines devoted solely to the haulage of minerals) was opened in 1798 - the euphoniously-named Lake Lock Rail Road in Yorkshire...
The Stockton & Darlington bi-centenary next year marks the opening of something of a Johnny-come-lately amongst early railways! Still, I'm looking forward to receiving my pre-ordered model of Locomotion, courtesy of Hornby. The pre-production working sample looks amazing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XWn8poibjI
The Surrey Iron Railway was the first public railway dahn sarf, however, and was longer than the Lake Lock Rail Road.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrey_Iron_Railway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Lock_Rail_Road
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7YofmQtDCc
Do those wash-out plugs need tightening a bit?
No doubt there will be a bit of tweaking and tinkering before she enters regular service next month.
"Dahn sarf" ?
Down south - which can be interpreted as south of the River Thames, or in the South of England generally.
Apologies for using local dialect!