Connecting to God through horror stories.
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There is a saying that all truth is God’s truth. There are also passages in the Bible saying “the word became flesh” and that “the word is living and active.” Many think that the word just means the Bible. That Jesus was the Bible made flesh, but it’s actually that Jesus is the breath of god made flesh. To me that’s truth, love and justice. Jesus is the teachings of God made flesh. Wisdom is not found in just the Bible. Wisdom is found through prayer and meditation, through reading the scriptures, through watching nature and snoring love.
So that brings up why would I find all of that in horror and for me that’s just to easy to explain. Often people think of horror as just the gory violent death, the villain and so on. But that’s like seeing a romantic comedy only as something about sex. It’s just missing the greater arcs.
I’ll come at this from a few different ways. The first is “tohu wabohu” which has really been highlighted recently in the general public through things like Tim Mackie’s “The Bible Project” podcast which has a series of episodes dedicated to the chaotic waters and the dragon.
In a nutshell genesis opens up with the spirit of god hovering above the dark deep watery void. It never says what day it was created, but seems to presume before creation this chaos already existed and god overcame it and organized it into life and goodness. We this further highlighted by the “great sea creatures / tannin which means sea monsters, sea serpent or sea dragon. One common thread with these monsters is that they have scales, are our enemy and eventually has their head destroyed.
It’s the serpent in the garden promised to have his head crushed by the bruised heal of the one to come.
It’s the sea dragon in psalms 84, the night leviathan who Job says is heavily armored that god crushes its head.
It’s even the chainmail type armor Goliath wears as David hurls a stone into his head, and then beheads him.
It’s even what Paul had something like scales over his eyes but instead of being killed he was healed of blindness and made to see.
Well these same tropes carries over into horror films. Michael Meyers is evil given shape. It’s Freddy slashing up teens in their nightmares. It’s the laser like fire breathing Godzilla. It’s even the xenomoroh in the abyss of space. In all of these stories we see something so evil, that it must either either be destroyed or redeemed.
The second part is not only the evil, but the warning by God, an angel, prophet or even a donkey. Many times before being exiled, cursed or killed in the Bible a warning was given. Adam was told to watch out and protect the garden. Israelites before being exiled was told to repent. Lot’s wife was told to not turn around. Even Jesus told them through parable after parable what awaits those who do evil and deny good .
In horror this is played out again and again. A car pulling into a gas station is warned , as if the old crazy man is as insane as the prophets, to not turn down that road. Do not go to that cabin. A shopkeeper says you don’t want that item, it you steal it anyways. The one in the crowd to flee and head out on their own is often struck down. There is always a warning and that warning is always ignored. This is how the group , or tribe, find themselves face to face with the evil.
Another part often ignored in the Bible and in the films is how friendship and love wins the day. We often fixate on those like Sampson or David who does something heroic. Less often do people really mediate on the fact that the king leading the war, or Moses holding up the staff, is not what won. It was the committed friends helping him keep his arms up. The committed Hebrews with their sword. It’s the disciples selling all they had. It’s the brothers in Christ treating the woman like sisters. Christians overcame Nero in the first century not by one zealot taking him out
But because they all looked out for one another.
In horror this is the same. The werewolf is defeated by a group. In Higurashi no naku koro ni we see the love between friends overcome time and space. The two friends come together to overthrow the nazi sausages in yoga hosers. It’s Tara drinking Luna Juice to help Isabel overcome the trickery of Mr. Melancholy in “ The Pink Opaque.”
So for me, I most strongly connect to the story of love and justice, at commitment to overcome evil by watching horror. It’s not just the gory practical effects or the body horror but the ability to suspend reality enough to be emotionally invested in the lives, and relationships, of those in the story. As the bride of Christ, we are the final girl surviving the chainsaws of Satan.
This was on paper about 5x as long with many more references both to biblical principles and literary devices. But I chopped it down tremendously for these forums.
For many others there are also things to consider like horror is the genre most likely to bring up religion and supernatural evil. Priests are sometimes the villain, but often a hero in horror. The love of the characters just speak to me so much more than those in the stories of the Bible. For a fact, when I hyperlink a story, it’s because I’m better understanding it.
So that brings up why would I find all of that in horror and for me that’s just to easy to explain. Often people think of horror as just the gory violent death, the villain and so on. But that’s like seeing a romantic comedy only as something about sex. It’s just missing the greater arcs.
I’ll come at this from a few different ways. The first is “tohu wabohu” which has really been highlighted recently in the general public through things like Tim Mackie’s “The Bible Project” podcast which has a series of episodes dedicated to the chaotic waters and the dragon.
In a nutshell genesis opens up with the spirit of god hovering above the dark deep watery void. It never says what day it was created, but seems to presume before creation this chaos already existed and god overcame it and organized it into life and goodness. We this further highlighted by the “great sea creatures / tannin which means sea monsters, sea serpent or sea dragon. One common thread with these monsters is that they have scales, are our enemy and eventually has their head destroyed.
It’s the serpent in the garden promised to have his head crushed by the bruised heal of the one to come.
It’s the sea dragon in psalms 84, the night leviathan who Job says is heavily armored that god crushes its head.
It’s even the chainmail type armor Goliath wears as David hurls a stone into his head, and then beheads him.
It’s even what Paul had something like scales over his eyes but instead of being killed he was healed of blindness and made to see.
Well these same tropes carries over into horror films. Michael Meyers is evil given shape. It’s Freddy slashing up teens in their nightmares. It’s the laser like fire breathing Godzilla. It’s even the xenomoroh in the abyss of space. In all of these stories we see something so evil, that it must either either be destroyed or redeemed.
The second part is not only the evil, but the warning by God, an angel, prophet or even a donkey. Many times before being exiled, cursed or killed in the Bible a warning was given. Adam was told to watch out and protect the garden. Israelites before being exiled was told to repent. Lot’s wife was told to not turn around. Even Jesus told them through parable after parable what awaits those who do evil and deny good .
In horror this is played out again and again. A car pulling into a gas station is warned , as if the old crazy man is as insane as the prophets, to not turn down that road. Do not go to that cabin. A shopkeeper says you don’t want that item, it you steal it anyways. The one in the crowd to flee and head out on their own is often struck down. There is always a warning and that warning is always ignored. This is how the group , or tribe, find themselves face to face with the evil.
Another part often ignored in the Bible and in the films is how friendship and love wins the day. We often fixate on those like Sampson or David who does something heroic. Less often do people really mediate on the fact that the king leading the war, or Moses holding up the staff, is not what won. It was the committed friends helping him keep his arms up. The committed Hebrews with their sword. It’s the disciples selling all they had. It’s the brothers in Christ treating the woman like sisters. Christians overcame Nero in the first century not by one zealot taking him out
But because they all looked out for one another.
In horror this is the same. The werewolf is defeated by a group. In Higurashi no naku koro ni we see the love between friends overcome time and space. The two friends come together to overthrow the nazi sausages in yoga hosers. It’s Tara drinking Luna Juice to help Isabel overcome the trickery of Mr. Melancholy in “ The Pink Opaque.”
So for me, I most strongly connect to the story of love and justice, at commitment to overcome evil by watching horror. It’s not just the gory practical effects or the body horror but the ability to suspend reality enough to be emotionally invested in the lives, and relationships, of those in the story. As the bride of Christ, we are the final girl surviving the chainsaws of Satan.
This was on paper about 5x as long with many more references both to biblical principles and literary devices. But I chopped it down tremendously for these forums.
For many others there are also things to consider like horror is the genre most likely to bring up religion and supernatural evil. Priests are sometimes the villain, but often a hero in horror. The love of the characters just speak to me so much more than those in the stories of the Bible. For a fact, when I hyperlink a story, it’s because I’m better understanding it.
Comments
Not being personally familiar with a great deal of horror writing, I'd like to ask a different question. I know someone with an anxiety disorder who finds horror stories to be ... what's the word I want, calming? Anti-anxiety attacks?
if you have any insight as to why, I'd be glad to know, as I'm trying to find other genres etc. to suggest to my friend.
1. They have to be able to easily realize horror is fiction and not real. So after the lights are off, they don’t sit around in fear. They know ghosts and monsters don’t exist. So when the film is over, the stress related to the film essentially ends.
2. They typically need to feel really stressed out. Not for years necessarily, but just currently are undergoing something. Panic attacks are definitely part of it. Though most adults don’t believe in the monsters of horror films, like werewolves, many are able to suspend reality enough that while watching it they can develop real temporary emotions and concern for the characters. They know they are fake, but they place that in the back of their mind and instead hope, and sometimes will even pray, that the characters are ok. They eagerly await for the horror to be defeated, even if it’s until the next sequel.
Our bodies don’t know why we are stressed. It can be stressed because of work, or because of a bear chasing us. Or even because we are afraid the little boy won’t make it back to his bed and jump under the covered before the boogie man catches him. A lot of this stress does not end. It just keeps coming back again and again. Bills piling up with a job you are about lose will keep your stressed and your body pumping out hormones that keep you stressed. Keeps you full of energy. Even though our stress is coming from a movie, our body is still thinking something is there and we either need to fight it off or escape it by running. Being stressed about bills is similar to how a caveman would have been stressed about food. This stress would keep his mind constantly trying trying to problem solve and constantly moving to hunt.
So when we watch horror, as the characters terror waxes and wanes, our stress builds and releases. Is there a monster behind that closet door…..we are stressed. We are holding our breath, our heart is beating a bit faster, and then the door opens and it’s empty. We breath out deeply, we laugh to ourselves, different hormones are released and our heart slows down a bit. The entire film occupies our mind, pulls us into it and we physically react to it the whole time. When it’s over, all the fear is released. We know the outcomes, the threat is over and often it helped regulate the real life stress. Our body is ready to sleep, and we pass out knowing we are safe because the characters are safe.
It’s controlled suffering. Kind of like how cutters will often feel overwhelmed by life, and feel release through the control burn of a cigarette against their chest or a blade cutting across their forearm.
Working out can do this too. Our body goes under a lot of stress lifting heavy weights . Then changes to repair mode once we are done and can burn through all that stored up tension and energy.
If there is another genre I would suggest one fantastical enough that it’s easy to separate the two. Something like a romance film , may not be different enough from the real world. Sometimes, these films can even make us think more about our real life issues. But none of us is stressed because the creature from the black lagoon is trying to drag us back into the water.
There is also a third darker reason. They view the film through the gaze of the killer. They fantasize all the time about hurting those that they blame their anger and suffering on. Or just manage their suffering through sadistic solutions. So some people actually watch horror because they fantasize all the suffering. Kind of like how someone would rather watch porn than look at a magazine photo or would rather look at the photo instead of just fantasize off of memory.
If this persons internet history is full of weird things it could be a red flag. In the army knew a guy who liked horror films too. We would watch them together. He would often rewind to rewatch the deaths. Sometimes he would just stick in a film and fast forward to one death scene, and watch it. Noticed he also watched a lot of videos of things like fights, or animals being killed. Weirdest was that he would watch tons of videos of things like kids getting into bike wrecks, or kids crying from getting their shots from needles. Met him by chance. He significantly out ranked me. He really enjoyed humiliating those below him in rank publicly by making them do push ups and so on.
So some seem to relax because they feel good living through the killer in the film.
No, I know this friend very, very well, and he's the sort of person who would carry a spider outside the house to safety. Gentle, peaceful, and averse to conflict. I'm not worried about him.
This is very cool.
I'm reminded of Chesterton on that...
From Orthodoxy, "The Ethics of Elfland"
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/chesterton/orthodoxy.vii.html
Sure, we used to 'link' God the Word with the Bible as the word of God, but not in the way this thread seems to suggest.
Perhaps I'm fortunate not to have grown up in what sounds like the US Bible Belt on steroids.
I can't comment on horror films because I don't generally watch them.
I prefer to sleep at night.
I'd also add (because of course I would, as long-time Shipmates may recall), as long as all is safe, sane, and consensual, BDSM to the list. And roller-coasters, of course.
This is a common trope, in fact arguably a sine qua non, in disaster films as well. The captain of the Poseiden was told not to go above a certain speed, but ignored the warning under threat to his career; the contractors in The Towering Inferno were told it was unsafe to build a structure above a certain height(obvious parallels with Babel). I'm pretty sure human hubris played some role in the bee-attack movie The Swarm, but I never saw it. Etc.
In one of the Chuckie movies, the CEO of the toy company decides to re-market the doll, despite its being linked to several deaths. Didn't see the ending, but I'm pretty sure it involves his demise.
https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/titanic-struck-iceberg-warnings
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/04/titan-sub-implosion-details-safety-oceangate-experts
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/unearthed-footage-sheds-new-light-hindenburg-disaster-180977773/
Perhaps the wording was not digested by you correctly. It says the word became flesh. The word is not the Bible, but the teachings and the teachings seemed to be focused on love and justice. Jesus was very much love and justice incarnate.
But if you think this is the Bible Belt on steroids it’s actually the opposite. Well…. It goes beyond the scope of this post.
Essentially, all I was saying was that Jesus was the embodiment of the teachings of God. I’m using it rather loosely to say Jesus was supernaturally kind and loving towards humanity. Not so much towards non human animals. But definitely towards humans .
Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn! (Hail! Hail! Cthulu dreams!)
Not horror stories per se, but the fantasy tales by Lord Dunsany have their appeal. I rather like the concept of a god who dreams other gods, and worlds, into existence:
Māna-Yood-Susha̅i̅
The chief of the gods of Pegāna is Māna-Yood-Susha̅i̅, who created the other gods and then fell asleep. When he wakes, he "will make again new gods and other worlds, and will destroy the gods whom he hath made." Men may pray to "all the gods but one"; only the gods themselves may pray to Māna-Yood-Susha̅i̅.
Well, Hastings is a fishing town, and who knows what (or who) might lurk in its forgotten nooks and crannies, even though it isn't quite Innsmouth...
Take a zombie film where the zombies are metaphorical for consumerism. It might open up with images of something like people all walking around a mall, or sitting at a table mouths stuffed. Over consumption. Just a mass mindless buyers succumbing to the disease of marketing wandering around store to store.
Ok. I get that but perhaps you could do me the courtesy of suggesting that the way you worded things wasn't particularly clear initially, rather than accusing me of lack of comprehension.
Quite a strong and graphic image. Reminds me of Our Town's shopping mall...not the nicest place in which to spend even a few minutes!
Still, even Zombies have their positive uses - well, at least in Discworld:
https://wiki.lspace.org/Reg_Shoe
There is a saying that all truth is God’s truth. There are also passages in the Bible saying “the word became flesh” and that “the word is living and active.” Many think that the word just means the Bible. That Jesus was the Bible made flesh, but it’s actually that Jesus is the breath of god made flesh. To me that’s truth, love and justice. Jesus is the teachings of God made flesh. Wisdom is not found in just the Bible. Wisdom is found through prayer and meditation, through reading the scriptures, through watching nature and snoring love.
1. I state the word does not simply mean the Bible.
2. Jesus is the word that became flesh. That’s the breath of god made flesh. That’s truth, love and justice , the teachings of God made flesh.
I was very clear. I said the complete opposite that Jesus is the Bible made flesh. I even stated in my opening, that’s wrong. So I feel I was very clear.
“ This is all beyond me. Even in my most full on evangelical days I never came across anyone who believed that Christ was the Bible Incarnate rather than God the Son, the Second Person of the Holy and Undivided Trinity.
Sure, we used to 'link' God the Word with the Bible as the word of God, but not in the way this thread seems to suggest.”
You thought I said Jesus was literally the Bible made incarnate.
But what I said was “ Many think that the word just means the Bible. That Jesus was the Bible made flesh, but it’s actually that Jesus is the breath of god made flesh. To me that’s truth, love and justice. Jesus is the teachings of God made flesh. “
I stated that the word is not synonymous with the Bible. I mentioned many thinks many thinks “Jesus was the Bible made flesh, but it’s actually something different. That the breath of God is the truth, love and justice and those teachings of God was Jesus in the flesh.
So it can only be someone not understanding what I wrote. Even if I was unclear, and did not use several examples, it would be a very bad reading to think I said Jesus was the Bible made flesh.
It's all a bit beyond me, too - hence my rather whimsical references to Dread Lord Cthulhu, Māna-Yood-Susha̅i̅, et al...
Maybe discussion about whether Jesus is/was, or is/was not, God incarnate belongs in Purgatory?
All the rest of it is directly related to this post. Those opening statements of mine was also directly related to this post. By showing God is found outside of just the Bible, it shows how I can personally feel connected to it through horror.
The stupid fucking people in this forum is not worth the worthwhile people.
Win some, lose some, but this could have been an interesting and entertaining thread, given that it's in Heaven...
I didn't quite see what he was trying to get at, but perhaps I'm too stupid to be worth the trouble he'd have explaining it...
Am I the only one who sees a modern retelling where the hero(ine) DOESN'T follow the rules (speak kindly to the old woman; help the old man you meet on the way; keep your promises; obey the warning of the raven; etc.) and STILL survives without any major difficulty, and I feel cheated?
Well, it makes for a less thrilling story, I suppose...
But it never happens. Because when he gets back to face his mentor and take the licks that are coming to him, so to speak, his mentor is ... demented. Has Alzheimer's. Is no longer capable of having any reaction whatsoever to what his protege has done.
And I felt horribly cheated.
I suppose someone could say, "But that's like real life, then." Yes, it is. But I want my novels, my movies to be better than real life. If I want real life, I'll go do the dishes.
It works marvelously for me. And Buffy, of course, still faces challenges. But they’re not the challenge of being the victim.
And in fact, there is just such a movie!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn_of_the_Dead_(1978_film)
It still can be!
Alternately you could have a horror movie in which everyone does the smart thing, and ... well, like this trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olEbwhWDYwM
Oh, AMEN to that. I feel like we have much, much more than enough "real life" to deal with as it is.
There are some really, really good TV shows out there. In some cases in recent years, they're better than a lot of movies. You get gradual character development and things that there are just no time for in a 2-hour movie.
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
My italics.
Paul's exhortation seems to me to imply that thinking about the opposite of these good things - that which is cruel, wicked, gruesome etc. etc. - is not something a Christian should do, but YMMV, of course.
No doubt I'm missing something, being stupid, but the thought did occur to me to wonder exactly which God the OPer had in mind.
The Marcionites, Bogomils, Cathars, and so on, postulate* the existence of two Gods - one bad, one good - in eternal opposition. Maybe the fractious, jealous, bloodthirsty God of the OT is responsible for the ills of the world, and of humanity, many of which truly merit the word horror, with the good God of the NT appearing later on, in the person of Jesus (or in his spirit) to offer some way of escape from the ghastliness and evil...
Not sure where I'm going with this. Are there any books/films based on this concept of two Gods?
*I use the present tense, as there are still some Dualists around...
I cannot even read - and certainly not watch - horror material because it will imprint images in my mind that not the passage of decades will expunge.
I take the point that some find excitement? catharsis? in unreal terrors - but to my imagination they are not unreal.
Call me Madeleine Usher, but I crave a bland life.
I think that's why I quite enjoy the H P Lovecraft sort of story, as they're totally unrealistic, and belief is not required IYSWIM.
Some of HPL's work has been translated into film in the past, but for me, at any rate, it simply doesn't work. Maybe today's sophisticated computer-generated images could produce a credible Cthulhu - I expect it's been done.
M R James is about as much as I can stand.
I recently had to replace my tatty and well-thumbed collected volume with a new one.
But the guy who's sitting in his bedroom patting his dog, only to realise that he left his dog downstairs and it's actually a ghastly undead Thing covered in hair... now that's frightening.
I don't really care for most modern horror (Stephen King et al) as it's too gory and violent for my taste, but some of my favourite writers could be described as horror-adjacent. T. Kingfisher. Seanan McGuire. Genevieve Cogman's Scarlet Pimpernel series. And some of the classics: Le Fanu, Bram Stoker...
He's not the only writer to have set mystery/ghost stories in or near small, out-of-season East Anglian coastal towns. My favourite is *The Bad Lands* by John Metcalfe:
An intriguing tale, with a satisfyingly ambiguous ending...no connection with God/god/gods, though.
I do better, on average, with poetry, especially people like Hopkins and Eliot, and with Julian of Norwich, than with the history of a mostly dysfunctional relationship, which seems mostly to have involved people looking past God with an astonishing degree of fanaticism.