It's heartwarming to see old and new friends here! The Ship is definitely different from the olden days, but I'd like to think most of our conversations now come from and older and wiser points of view.
I have come and gone. I stayed for quite a while when I first discovered the ship in June or July 2001 and was a bit more prolific in posting in Purg; a place I rarely visit now. I think this is as I was at a stage in my faith where I was trying to make sense of it, wrestle with things, etc. The Ship was a great place for that, especially as I was, am, exposed to views radically different from those I held/hold.
The meets, primarily in Oz, but a few o/s, were wonderful. I have fond memories of meeting many people. Some posters I greatly admired, often with very different views, have left; good memories remain.
As probably one of the most "traditional" people here, the "unrest" aspect still holds value. (I have "tested" more traditional locales and while there are pros, the rose-coloured glasses (esp. re Orthodoxy)) didn't sit well with me). I'll be honest that I am bewildered at times, no doubt I am the cause of bewilderment also!, but it is good to be reminded there are different views. And that issues are not theoretical, but have real people impacted by them (I realise this is obvious, but I tend to sway towards the theoretical...)
I was sad to read of a number of posters' passings. I was also taken aback by the journeys some have taken, a loss of faith one of them. Perhaps, due to my limited reading previously, I had made assumptions that weren't true. Or, of course, it happened to those with a faith. I was just surprised in some instances, especially among some who had a large impact on me in times past.
Whatever the future holds, this barque seems as stable as one can hope for; whether I am here or not, many years! And many thanks!
A fine example of what makes the Ship a community is the railway thread in Heaven today. It wandered off the tracks and into books and book recommendations that could keep a soul happily occupied for many hours. Where else can you go to take time out for a visit to Purgatory or Hell (or both) and come back to relax in Heaven for as long as you please?
Indeed @Stercus Tauri and as a newbie I love that people are coming our to share what the ship has meant to them in the past, and how it's still important for many. Wonderful!
Sorry/not sorry to spoil the love fest, but the blatant anti-Americanism and rampant sexism displayed by many shipmates, as well as the frequent refusal by many to even consider that they have something to learn from the viewpoints of marginalized people, make the Ship increasingly unattractive to me. I don't feel a sense of community with people who feel free to take dumps on other people, and the nature of many of the complaints in the Styx lately have been repulsive; too many of them amount to little more than "why am I not allowed to be my shittiest self here?"
My one other social media outlet is a discord server for romance novel enthusiasts. It is far more active than the Ship, a veritable firehose of posts blasting in many more channels than the Ship has boards, with a lot more people who post every day. It's been going for over a year and a half, and it's unmoderated. I've seen maybe three conversations get a little tense, but nothing beyond that. People there don't need to be told to be respectful of each other. Why romance fans are better behaved and more kind than Shipmates I don't know, but it speaks volumes to me that they are.
I think this is a great thread but I'm just popping my Host's Hat on to say remember this is All Saints. There are other places on this esteemed ship to go if you want a gripe.
So we can discuss the Ship as a community only if we have positive things to say? Was this thread moved out of the Styx so we wouldn't complain? We can consign all manner of things to hell in All Saints, but not gripe about how the Ship fails as a community?
And no, I'm not taking this to the Styx, so don't waste your energy redirecting me there, because this thread was started in the Styx as an actual discussion that would allow different points of view.
I, too, struggle with some of the same issues you mention, @Ruth. I appreciate the work of the hosts to moderate the conversations. There are times when I feel like abandoning the Ship, and then I find an insightful post or an interesting/edifying conversation, and I decide to hang around a bit longer.
There are many people on board with whom I feel no sense of community at all, and then there are smaller subsets whose insights I value highly.
I wonder sometimes if I'm simply too conflict-averse, but when I find something that really riles me, I struggle to decide whether the fight would be worth getting into. Often I decide it's not, because I don't find forums like this a great place for compassionate listening and truly seeking mutual understanding.
And yet, there are moments that are transformative. I stick around for those. Does all this make me complicit in some of the mysogyny or other -isms that occur on board? I grapple with that. I still don't know what the right answers are for me on the Ship.
I'm working hard at all this in my 3D world, and maybe that's enough for now. Or maybe I'm copping out.
I feel like I'm in a little bit of a younger generation, as in most of y'all felt like established old hands when I started posting regularly. I think I wandered in here on a link from a website called killingthebuddha.com and was what was then called a "seeker" who'd grown up in the church and was, well, an undergraduate. And I was a lurker for a pretty long time before posting, if I recall. That was a long time ago now, early aughts.
Once I started posting, I was pretty active for a while, I think I got my spouse to join, and they became a host and are probably more active now than I am. I could also probably credit this space with single handedly showing me how to be a Christian and how to be a proper netizen, which is kind of a funny thing now that I think about it.
I think I drifted off because my life got busy and my questions largely got settled, maybe around the time I got to seminary. A lot of things that would've felt "unrestful" or "exciting" when I was in high school or college became settled "well, duh" kinds of things and there isn't much to discuss. Being Christian and gay doesn't seem even remotely contradictory to me now, as it would've when I was young. Arguing about it seems boring. Either you get it or you don't, no disrespect intended.
And, of course, facebook. Ah, facebook, Ugh, facebook. A lot of friends were there and the conversation felt more free flowing, plus the benefit of feeling like you could reach out and actually affect things beyond your own space. It felt more dynamic for a time, and I knew more people there IRL than here.
And, perhaps selfishly, I think it's the "enshittification" of facebook that's making this place seem more appealing to me again. And it's not what it was. The big names who were running the place when I was new are now either in retirement or gone, some in the rather permanent sense. Memories eternal. *crosses self* Speaking of things I didn't do when I was younger.
The flow of the place is different. Things that felt exciting are routine. The lines that feel important have shifted. I don't really get the same joy out of verbal sparring anymore, because it's either pointless or it's total war. And I've learned that I don't like to hurt people. I've also learned not to let people turn that impulse against me. The internet has taught me a lot of ugly social lessons.
I think this is still a good place, and yes, it has changed. Everything must.
A lot of things that would've felt "unrestful" or "exciting" when I was in high school or college became settled "well, duh" kinds of things and there isn't much to discuss. Being Christian and gay doesn't seem even remotely contradictory to me now, as it would've when I was young. Arguing about it seems boring. Either you get it or you don't, no disrespect intended.
The flow of the place is different. Things that felt exciting are routine. The lines that feel important have shifted. I don't really get the same joy out of verbal sparring anymore, because it's either pointless or it's total war. And I've learned that I don't like to hurt people. I've also learned not to let people turn that impulse against me.
I think this is still a good place, and yes, it has changed. Everything must.
This captures well some of my feelings. The bit I put in bold is kind of where I've ended up when I think about arguing on forums.
A lot of things that would've felt "unrestful" or "exciting" when I was in high school or college became settled "well, duh" kinds of things and there isn't much to discuss. Being Christian and gay doesn't seem even remotely contradictory to me now, as it would've when I was young. Arguing about it seems boring. Either you get it or you don't, no disrespect intended.
The flow of the place is different. Things that felt exciting are routine. The lines that feel important have shifted. I don't really get the same joy out of verbal sparring anymore, because it's either pointless or it's total war. And I've learned that I don't like to hurt people. I've also learned not to let people turn that impulse against me.
I think this is still a good place, and yes, it has changed. Everything must.
This captures well some of my feelings. The bit I put in bold is kind of where I've ended up when I think about arguing on forums.
Aw, you're welcome. And I think it might be a thing about the community. If this is a forum for discussion, well...we discuss things. It's a space made of words and conversations.
So, what do we do when there isn't much to discuss, either because we generally reach a cozy consensus or an impasse? We all feel like we know each other.
Facebook has this thing where it's constantly feeding you input from the media, so there's always some new thing to hash things out over, or a joke, or an image, or an idle distraction, commonly called a "shitpost." It's brighter and shinier and noisier, and there's connection there as well, but it's not the same. It's all rather fleeting and the sheer volume of participants is overwhelming.
A fine example of what makes the Ship a community is the railway thread in Heaven today...
I read few threads, and while I enjoy train trips as much as the next person*, I'm not overly engaged in the topic, but I do occasionally dip into that thread. The joy with which posters discuss railways and the trains which run on them fills me with joy when I read; to see, with humour, people so engaged in a topic that brings such happiness to them is an honest delight. I may never "get it", no offence, but it is wonderful to enter into. I imagine other topic-dedicated threads are similar.
* perhaps a bit more; I've been on 2 long-distance railway journeys here and do occasionally catch a regional train here for "a day out"...
The Ship has been a part of my journey for a very long time - I think I read a paper version at Greenbelt in the late '80s, and certainly joined the previous online incarnation just after it became free but during the dial-up days when internet access wasn't. I read and lurk, which sometimes feels a bit cowardly and parasitical, but do value both the wit and wisdom of more extroverted posters.
It feels to me as though 'social media' is undergoing a tough time where rational and thoughtful discussion is much scarcer than it was 3-5 years ago, and people are returning to communities like this where sensible conversations are more readily found.
I do miss many former members - I really wish I'd taken more notice during the early days of the Facebook groups when people outed their identities, as it is unthinkable that people like Spiffy, Left at the Altar and Sine Nomine wouldn’t be somewhere on the Net being fabulous.
I’ve been pondering on this and wondering whether to post.
I lurked for some time before joining and posting on the ship some years ago. It was daunting - like jumping into a skipping rope which was turning fast, or a free-for-all no holds barred wresting match, not knowing whether I would get hurt. The discussions on purgatory were robust and those who posted had informed opinions. I learned a great deal. I did get hurt, but I expected to. It was up to me to shrug it off or leave.
Although I get it that times move on - so have I - and it is kinder to be sensitive, I miss that rough-house. I miss the voices, the topics and the opinions and I’m saddened that some people can no longer openly and frankly talk about issues which concern them.
I have considered leaving the ship, and I still might. Maybe I will be asked to. I used to feel part of it and I don’t now.
I wonder - has it become a club in which only the like-minded need apply?
I wonder - has it become a club in which only the like-minded need apply?
To be honest, that was my feeling in the free-for-all, no-holds-barred days of the Ship—that the Ship was a club, or that there was an inner circle of people who all knew each other and who ganged up on others. It made me hesitant to join for some time, and then after I’d joined, that dynamic sent me away for a while. I do not miss it.
And I think in those days there were also people who couldn’t openly and frankly talk about the issues that concerned them, not because it wasn’t allowed but because they didn’t want to be shouted down (again).
I do think we’re still feeling our way on how to discuss some things. But I’d take the current uncertainty and struggling over the old rough-and-tumble Ship any day. My feeling is that some experienced those days as great and fun, but I suspect others didn’t.
I started writing something similar in my post above, and stopped. And deleted it.
I'm not expecting a free pass for my views. I understand for many they are deeply offensive. I try not to be; I've failed innumerable times I'm sure. I apologise.
I recall the fuss when "Star of the Sea" was floated as a private board; the Catholics and Orthodox off to their own private group. I got that, I did, but sometimes it is nice to have discussions where not everything is questioned. But perhaps there are other places for that.
I do feel since I've returned the Ship, unexpectedly, it was in a sense always thus, has moved with society and I sense less tolerance than I recall -- though perhaps I have rose-coloured glasses: there were plenty of smackdowns in the 2000s decade! I get the Epiphanies/Purgatory separation, as another example, I do, but again, for me, I'm not judging the decision or anyone, it is odd. But I am a hard-hearted bastard and I understand not all are.
No-one has a gun to my head and is forcing me to stay here, I do enjoy it here, and enjoy the diverse views as I wrote previously. Probably my views are more fixed now, after the tumult of my 20s, so discussions on divergent theological views don't interest me as much, though still do to some level.
I’ve been pondering on this and wondering whether to post.
I lurked for some time before joining and posting on the ship some years ago. It was daunting - like jumping into a skipping rope which was turning fast, or a free-for-all no holds barred wresting match, not knowing whether I would get hurt. The discussions on purgatory were robust and those who posted had informed opinions. I learned a great deal. I did get hurt, but I expected to. It was up to me to shrug it off or leave.
Although I get it that times move on - so have I - and it is kinder to be sensitive, I miss that rough-house. I miss the voices, the topics and the opinions and I’m saddened that some people can no longer openly and frankly talk about issues which concern them.
I have considered leaving the ship, and I still might. Maybe I will be asked to. I used to feel part of it and I don’t now.
I wonder - has it become a club in which only the like-minded need apply?
I’m struggling with this as well but hanging on for now. At very least there is All Saints. ❤️
I came to the ship relatively late (even if it's been nearly 13 years) from other forum cultures that varied from anything-goes-except-direct-insults to something similar to where the ship is now. I therefore didn't have the fear of diving in that others seem to have done, aided by having identities that were highly unlikely to come under sustained attack from the less savoury denizens of the ship's bilges.
The Ship is not the whole internet and doesn't need to be.
As a place where people from various minorities, especially ones which have had and still often have, a fractious relationship with Christianity can actually have their voices heard without fear specifically in a broadly Christian setting it may, however, be unique.
So whatever else we are, I wouldn't want it to stop us being able to be that particular thing. If you have places where one debates whether a gay Christian is an oxymoron that inevitably hampers actual gay Christians giving you their perspectives beyond having to constantly assert and defend their very existence. There are thousands of places on the web where the former debate cycles endlessly; it really doesn't need to be here as well. We are not the world.
Agreed @KarlLB. Perhaps a ship of Christian unrest only includes people who have had a fractious relationship with Christianity?
Additionally, without some kind of fractiousness, what is there to discuss?
If we all agree all the time, then whither Purgatory?
I might also add that I've never been in any multi-person situation where there wasn't some degree of fractiousness. A community without fractiousness would seem to me to be some kind of cult.
Agreed @KarlLB. Perhaps a ship of Christian unrest only includes people who have had a fractious relationship with Christianity?
But it hasn’t always been like that, and I hope there is still a place here for those of us who see things differently.
Well, yes, but not one where you get to tell the people in question they're wrong about their experience of Christianity. That's where the problems occurred in the past.
Agreed @KarlLB. Perhaps a ship of Christian unrest only includes people who have had a fractious relationship with Christianity?
But it hasn’t always been like that, and I hope there is still a place here for those of us who see things differently.
Well, yes, but not one where you get to tell the people in question they're wrong about their experience of Christianity. That's where the problems occurred in the past.
That would be where people of all sides would disagree on those things, yes, both then and now. But the matter of the rules of the Ship has already had its own Styx thread, and I don’t want to derail this one.
Agreed @KarlLB. Perhaps a ship of Christian unrest only includes people who have had a fractious relationship with Christianity?
But it hasn’t always been like that, and I hope there is still a place here for those of us who see things differently.
Dude. You know I think I disagree with you on some stuff. That doesn't mean I want to throw you out. And I can be pretty feisty in conversation; but to me, that's just talk. I'm not an authority figure and while I may be really good with words sometimes, I have no desire to compel people.
Honestly, the idea of changing someone else's mind on something scares the crap out of me, even if I think they're wrong.
So I'm not sure if I'm part of what's making you feel less than welcome, but you're fine in my books. Even if I may robustly argue with you on matters of deep personal interest.
Agreed @KarlLB. Perhaps a ship of Christian unrest only includes people who have had a fractious relationship with Christianity?
But it hasn’t always been like that, and I hope there is still a place here for those of us who see things differently.
Dude. You know I think I disagree with you on some stuff. That doesn't mean I want to throw you out. And I can be pretty feisty in conversation; but to me, that's just talk. I'm not an authority figure and while I may be really good with words sometimes, I have no desire to compel people.
Honestly, the idea of changing someone else's mind on something scares the crap out of me, even if I think they're wrong.
So I'm not sure if I'm part of what's making you feel less than welcome, but you're fine in my books. Even if I may robustly argue with you on matters of deep personal interest.
I recall the fuss when "Star of the Sea" was floated as a private board; the Catholics and Orthodox off to their own private group. I got that, I did, but sometimes it is nice to have discussions where not everything is questioned. But perhaps there are other places for that.
Why should we have gone some other place, when the private boards on the old ship served the purpose perfectly well? Was it that non-Marians were jealous and wanted to break in and start shitting all over us all over again? Poor dears. Must have been hard.
Dude, you seem to me one of the most level-headed people on the ship right now. Perhaps the most.
I'm...I'm not really sure how to take that. I'm glad to be well thought of. I'm a little scared of how important that makes me feel. But...ok. I guess I'm glad I'm back if I'm so useful.
Did somebody say my name?
I haven't been on the Ship in a long, long time. Just today I was thinking about it when my daughter and son-in-law said they were going to a fundraiser in Albuquerque for the National Museum of Nuclear Science and History, and I wondered whether JB and Motherboard might be attending, so came to the Ship to see if they were still aboard. I gave the kids JB's IRL name, so they will look for him.
I am in frequent touch with ebeth and Laura IRL, but not so much other Shipmates. I see mousethief and Chastmastr's posts on Facebook and some other Shippies' posts as well. I still miss Genevieve (Mary Marguerite Kohn) and Rossweisse (Bryan Miller) terribly.
If Facebook continues its descent into Hell, I may wind up here a lot more.
Did somebody say my name?
I haven't been on the Ship in a long, long time. Just today I was thinking about it when my daughter and son-in-law said they were going to a fundraiser in Albuquerque for the National Museum of Nuclear Science and History, and I wondered whether JB and Motherboard might be attending, so came to the Ship to see if they were still aboard. I gave the kids JB's IRL name, so they will look for him.
I am in frequent touch with ebeth and Laura IRL, but not so much other Shipmates. I see mousethief and Chastmastr's posts on Facebook and some other Shippies' posts as well. I still miss Genevieve (Mary Marguerite Kohn) and Rossweisse (Bryan Miller) terribly.
If Facebook continues its descent into Hell, I may wind up here a lot more.
Here are a couple of questions: How many Shipmates have you met in person? (For me: one.) How many Shipmates do you sometimes contact by E-mail (not the message facility on the Ship)? (For me: two.)
Met in person - Twenty, I think, not all of whom are on the current Ship. It might be more. Four of those were very casual acquaintances, and I realised the Ship connection after knowing them slightly in RL.
How many do I contact, other than by Ship message facility? Ten, I think.
How many have stayed overnight in my house? Two
How many have I stayed with, in their houses? The same two.
Here are a couple of questions: How many Shipmates have you met in person? (For me: one.) How many Shipmates do you sometimes contact by E-mail (not the message facility on the Ship)? (For me: two.)
I have met one in person, but that was purely by accident when I was visiting a church and his ship name was the same as the name on his church name tag.
I contact no shipmates by means other than the Ship's message facility.
I've met two in person, in real life (not virtually, I mean)--and was privileged to stay with Rossweisse in her home a couple of times. I meet virtually with another whom I correspond with , but we use the Ship's message system--I do email with one or two others, but there's always the danger of missing their messages in my over-spammed email accounts. At least onboard I won't do that.
Comments
It's heartwarming to see old and new friends here! The Ship is definitely different from the olden days, but I'd like to think most of our conversations now come from and older and wiser points of view.
That you see those adjectives as convergent is a triumph of hope over experience 😊
"Oh, my friend, we're older but no wiser
For in our hearts, the dreams are still the same"
I certainly hope the dreams remain the same!
The meets, primarily in Oz, but a few o/s, were wonderful. I have fond memories of meeting many people. Some posters I greatly admired, often with very different views, have left; good memories remain.
As probably one of the most "traditional" people here, the "unrest" aspect still holds value. (I have "tested" more traditional locales and while there are pros, the rose-coloured glasses (esp. re Orthodoxy)) didn't sit well with me). I'll be honest that I am bewildered at times, no doubt I am the cause of bewilderment also!, but it is good to be reminded there are different views. And that issues are not theoretical, but have real people impacted by them (I realise this is obvious, but I tend to sway towards the theoretical...)
I was sad to read of a number of posters' passings. I was also taken aback by the journeys some have taken, a loss of faith one of them. Perhaps, due to my limited reading previously, I had made assumptions that weren't true. Or, of course, it happened to those with a faith. I was just surprised in some instances, especially among some who had a large impact on me in times past.
Whatever the future holds, this barque seems as stable as one can hope for; whether I am here or not, many years! And many thanks!
My one other social media outlet is a discord server for romance novel enthusiasts. It is far more active than the Ship, a veritable firehose of posts blasting in many more channels than the Ship has boards, with a lot more people who post every day. It's been going for over a year and a half, and it's unmoderated. I've seen maybe three conversations get a little tense, but nothing beyond that. People there don't need to be told to be respectful of each other. Why romance fans are better behaved and more kind than Shipmates I don't know, but it speaks volumes to me that they are.
However, let's all keep this in mind, please:
And no, I'm not taking this to the Styx, so don't waste your energy redirecting me there, because this thread was started in the Styx as an actual discussion that would allow different points of view.
No, it was moved because the OP had mentioned it might be suitable for All Saints and that seemed to be the way the discussion was moving at the time.
Also, as I am sure you realise, at no time in the SoF’s history has moving threads ever seemed to stop anyone complaining about anything.
There are many people on board with whom I feel no sense of community at all, and then there are smaller subsets whose insights I value highly.
I wonder sometimes if I'm simply too conflict-averse, but when I find something that really riles me, I struggle to decide whether the fight would be worth getting into. Often I decide it's not, because I don't find forums like this a great place for compassionate listening and truly seeking mutual understanding.
And yet, there are moments that are transformative. I stick around for those. Does all this make me complicit in some of the mysogyny or other -isms that occur on board? I grapple with that. I still don't know what the right answers are for me on the Ship.
I'm working hard at all this in my 3D world, and maybe that's enough for now. Or maybe I'm copping out.
Once I started posting, I was pretty active for a while, I think I got my spouse to join, and they became a host and are probably more active now than I am. I could also probably credit this space with single handedly showing me how to be a Christian and how to be a proper netizen, which is kind of a funny thing now that I think about it.
I think I drifted off because my life got busy and my questions largely got settled, maybe around the time I got to seminary. A lot of things that would've felt "unrestful" or "exciting" when I was in high school or college became settled "well, duh" kinds of things and there isn't much to discuss. Being Christian and gay doesn't seem even remotely contradictory to me now, as it would've when I was young. Arguing about it seems boring. Either you get it or you don't, no disrespect intended.
And, of course, facebook. Ah, facebook, Ugh, facebook. A lot of friends were there and the conversation felt more free flowing, plus the benefit of feeling like you could reach out and actually affect things beyond your own space. It felt more dynamic for a time, and I knew more people there IRL than here.
And, perhaps selfishly, I think it's the "enshittification" of facebook that's making this place seem more appealing to me again. And it's not what it was. The big names who were running the place when I was new are now either in retirement or gone, some in the rather permanent sense. Memories eternal. *crosses self* Speaking of things I didn't do when I was younger.
The flow of the place is different. Things that felt exciting are routine. The lines that feel important have shifted. I don't really get the same joy out of verbal sparring anymore, because it's either pointless or it's total war. And I've learned that I don't like to hurt people. I've also learned not to let people turn that impulse against me. The internet has taught me a lot of ugly social lessons.
I think this is still a good place, and yes, it has changed. Everything must.
This captures well some of my feelings. The bit I put in bold is kind of where I've ended up when I think about arguing on forums.
Thanks, @Bullfrog.
Aw, you're welcome. And I think it might be a thing about the community. If this is a forum for discussion, well...we discuss things. It's a space made of words and conversations.
So, what do we do when there isn't much to discuss, either because we generally reach a cozy consensus or an impasse? We all feel like we know each other.
Facebook has this thing where it's constantly feeding you input from the media, so there's always some new thing to hash things out over, or a joke, or an image, or an idle distraction, commonly called a "shitpost." It's brighter and shinier and noisier, and there's connection there as well, but it's not the same. It's all rather fleeting and the sheer volume of participants is overwhelming.
* perhaps a bit more; I've been on 2 long-distance railway journeys here and do occasionally catch a regional train here for "a day out"...
It feels to me as though 'social media' is undergoing a tough time where rational and thoughtful discussion is much scarcer than it was 3-5 years ago, and people are returning to communities like this where sensible conversations are more readily found.
I do miss many former members - I really wish I'd taken more notice during the early days of the Facebook groups when people outed their identities, as it is unthinkable that people like Spiffy, Left at the Altar and Sine Nomine wouldn’t be somewhere on the Net being fabulous.
I lurked for some time before joining and posting on the ship some years ago. It was daunting - like jumping into a skipping rope which was turning fast, or a free-for-all no holds barred wresting match, not knowing whether I would get hurt. The discussions on purgatory were robust and those who posted had informed opinions. I learned a great deal. I did get hurt, but I expected to. It was up to me to shrug it off or leave.
Although I get it that times move on - so have I - and it is kinder to be sensitive, I miss that rough-house. I miss the voices, the topics and the opinions and I’m saddened that some people can no longer openly and frankly talk about issues which concern them.
I have considered leaving the ship, and I still might. Maybe I will be asked to. I used to feel part of it and I don’t now.
I wonder - has it become a club in which only the like-minded need apply?
And I think in those days there were also people who couldn’t openly and frankly talk about the issues that concerned them, not because it wasn’t allowed but because they didn’t want to be shouted down (again).
I do think we’re still feeling our way on how to discuss some things. But I’d take the current uncertainty and struggling over the old rough-and-tumble Ship any day. My feeling is that some experienced those days as great and fun, but I suspect others didn’t.
I'm not expecting a free pass for my views. I understand for many they are deeply offensive. I try not to be; I've failed innumerable times I'm sure. I apologise.
I recall the fuss when "Star of the Sea" was floated as a private board; the Catholics and Orthodox off to their own private group. I got that, I did, but sometimes it is nice to have discussions where not everything is questioned. But perhaps there are other places for that.
I do feel since I've returned the Ship, unexpectedly, it was in a sense always thus, has moved with society and I sense less tolerance than I recall -- though perhaps I have rose-coloured glasses: there were plenty of smackdowns in the 2000s decade! I get the Epiphanies/Purgatory separation, as another example, I do, but again, for me, I'm not judging the decision or anyone, it is odd. But I am a hard-hearted bastard and I understand not all are.
No-one has a gun to my head and is forcing me to stay here, I do enjoy it here, and enjoy the diverse views as I wrote previously. Probably my views are more fixed now, after the tumult of my 20s, so discussions on divergent theological views don't interest me as much, though still do to some level.
I’m struggling with this as well but hanging on for now. At very least there is All Saints. ❤️
As a place where people from various minorities, especially ones which have had and still often have, a fractious relationship with Christianity can actually have their voices heard without fear specifically in a broadly Christian setting it may, however, be unique.
So whatever else we are, I wouldn't want it to stop us being able to be that particular thing. If you have places where one debates whether a gay Christian is an oxymoron that inevitably hampers actual gay Christians giving you their perspectives beyond having to constantly assert and defend their very existence. There are thousands of places on the web where the former debate cycles endlessly; it really doesn't need to be here as well. We are not the world.
Additionally, without some kind of fractiousness, what is there to discuss?
If we all agree all the time, then whither Purgatory?
I might also add that I've never been in any multi-person situation where there wasn't some degree of fractiousness. A community without fractiousness would seem to me to be some kind of cult.
But it hasn’t always been like that, and I hope there is still a place here for those of us who see things differently.
Well, yes, but not one where you get to tell the people in question they're wrong about their experience of Christianity. That's where the problems occurred in the past.
That would be where people of all sides would disagree on those things, yes, both then and now. But the matter of the rules of the Ship has already had its own Styx thread, and I don’t want to derail this one.
Dude. You know I think I disagree with you on some stuff. That doesn't mean I want to throw you out. And I can be pretty feisty in conversation; but to me, that's just talk. I'm not an authority figure and while I may be really good with words sometimes, I have no desire to compel people.
Honestly, the idea of changing someone else's mind on something scares the crap out of me, even if I think they're wrong.
So I'm not sure if I'm part of what's making you feel less than welcome, but you're fine in my books. Even if I may robustly argue with you on matters of deep personal interest.
Thank you. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Why should we have gone some other place, when the private boards on the old ship served the purpose perfectly well? Was it that non-Marians were jealous and wanted to break in and start shitting all over us all over again? Poor dears. Must have been hard.
Dude, you seem to me one of the most level-headed people on the ship right now. Perhaps the most.
I'm...I'm not really sure how to take that. I'm glad to be well thought of. I'm a little scared of how important that makes me feel. But...ok. I guess I'm glad I'm back if I'm so useful.
Thank you. That's a relief!
—J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit
Harmless? Harmless? I've failed. I tried so hard.
{exits, sniffing]
{…pursued by a bear…}
Hermless, hermless
There's never nae bother frae me
Ah gang tae the library an' tak' oot a book
And then Ah go hame for ma tea
I'm torn between wishing I was bigger and thus more capable of stopping the big things, and relieved that it's really not my responsibility.
Being a small person who makes a habit of studying dragons is an experience.
I haven't been on the Ship in a long, long time. Just today I was thinking about it when my daughter and son-in-law said they were going to a fundraiser in Albuquerque for the National Museum of Nuclear Science and History, and I wondered whether JB and Motherboard might be attending, so came to the Ship to see if they were still aboard. I gave the kids JB's IRL name, so they will look for him.
I am in frequent touch with ebeth and Laura IRL, but not so much other Shipmates. I see mousethief and Chastmastr's posts on Facebook and some other Shippies' posts as well. I still miss Genevieve (Mary Marguerite Kohn) and Rossweisse (Bryan Miller) terribly.
If Facebook continues its descent into Hell, I may wind up here a lot more.
Hi!
How many do I contact, other than by Ship message facility? Ten, I think.
How many have stayed overnight in my house? Two
How many have I stayed with, in their houses? The same two.
How many have I been on holiday with? One.
I have met one in person, but that was purely by accident when I was visiting a church and his ship name was the same as the name on his church name tag.
I contact no shipmates by means other than the Ship's message facility.