Lenten traditions

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  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Their argument was that between those two masses God is dead, so we must cover everything as without God there is no point.
    God is dead?
    Did someone tell him?
    Nietzsche did.


  • Indeed, but which is (or was) the *Mass of the Passion* - the Maundy Thursday service? Or the Good Friday Liturgy?

    Good Friday, using elements consecrated on Maundy Thursday
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Their argument was that between those two masses God is dead, so we must cover everything as without God there is no point.
    God is dead?
    Did someone tell him?
    Nietzsche did.


    Ah.
    But was he listening?
  • Indeed, but which is (or was) the *Mass of the Passion* - the Maundy Thursday service? Or the Good Friday Liturgy?

    Good Friday, using elements consecrated on Maundy Thursday

    Thank you - I thought it was probably Good Friday.

    AIUI, there was a pre-Reformation practice of actually burying the Sacrament in an Easter Sepulchre within the church for that period. Some Easter Sepulchres (or the remains thereof) can still be seen here and there, but I don't think the practice has ever been revived in its entirety.

    I'm reminded of the early Tudor story of the rather ill-educated priest who - on Holy Saturday - couldn't recall what sort of Mass he should celebrate on Easter Day (!). He sent his servant (who wasn't all that bright, either) to a neighbouring priest to enquire, and the servant boy came back to say that he couldn't remember what the other priest had said, except that the Mass began with *R*.

    Ah - sez his master - we buried Jesus yesterday, so it must be a Requiem Mass!
  • Better historians than me will doubtless surface, but yes, the Sacrament would rest in a sepulchre within the church. If my memory serves me well one survives at Long Melford in Suffolk, within the chantry chapel of the church's benefactors, the Clopton family.

    A swift Google for Melford'ssepulchre brings up this: https://churchmonumentssociety.org/2020/04/11/the-easter-sepulchre

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited April 26
    The story of the ignorant priest also comes from Professor Duffy's The Stripping Of The Altars - a fascinating book.
  • This could get very Purgatorial.

    Was the Trinity 'dismantled' between Christ's death and resurrection?
  • How so? The Son was busy harrowing Hell...
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    In post Tridentine but pre 1950s Holy Week changes initiated by Pope Pius XII the altar of repose in the RC church had the Sacrament contained in a sort of funerary urn which was called the Sepulchre. I have never seen it in a RC church in modern times but have seen this type of altar of repose in at least two Anglo-Catholic churches.
    Catholic churches in Central Europe still have what is called 'das heilige Grab' (the Holy Grave) where people can spend some time in contemplation during the Triduum.
  • How so? The Son was busy harrowing Hell...

    Yes, indeed. We have icons of it so that must be the case ...
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    The veiling is never explained at St Obscures as being because God is dead but a removal of comfortable distractions so as to focus ones mind more fully on the central liturgical event that is happening. There is so much that is happening that in someways it is essential.
  • Jengie Jon wrote: »
    The veiling is never explained at St Obscures as being because God is dead but a removal of comfortable distractions so as to focus ones mind more fully on the central liturgical event that is happening. There is so much that is happening that in someways it is essential.

    That sounds like a sensible explanation...
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    Jengie Jon wrote: »
    The veiling is never explained at St Obscures as being because God is dead but a removal of comfortable distractions so as to focus ones mind more fully on the central liturgical event that is happening. There is so much that is happening that in someways it is essential.

    That sounds like a sensible explanation...

    Especially given that we veil for passiontide not just the Triduum. We actually start unveiling on Maundy Thursday when crucifixes' veils go from purple to thin white.
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    Jengie Jon wrote: »
    The veiling is never explained at St Obscures as being because God is dead but a removal of comfortable distractions so as to focus ones mind more fully on the central liturgical event that is happening. There is so much that is happening that in someways it is essential.

    That sounds like a sensible explanation...

    Especially as the we veil for Passiontide not the Triduum. Also unveiling starts on Maundy Thursday when crucifixes' veils go from opaque purple to translucent white. All crucifixes are unveiled on Good Friday (so much for God is Dead as being the reason). The rest comes down on Holy Saturday in preparation for the vigil.

  • IIRC, our unveiling is all done on Holy Saturday, with no changes being made during Maundy Thursday/Good Friday.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Jengie Jon wrote: »
    The veiling is never explained at St Obscures as being because God is dead but a removal of comfortable distractions so as to focus ones mind more fully on the central liturgical event that is happening. There is so much that is happening that in someways it is essential.
    I have heard it referred to as “a fast for the eyes.”


  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Jengie Jon wrote: »
    The veiling is never explained at St Obscures as being because God is dead but a removal of comfortable distractions so as to focus ones mind more fully on the central liturgical event that is happening. There is so much that is happening that in someways it is essential.
    I have heard it referred to as “a fast for the eyes.”


    A rather good way of putting it.
    :wink:
  • Hookers_TrickHookers_Trick Admin Emeritus
    I was somewhat partial to the linen veils used as part of the Sarum lent array, until someone on these boards mentioned that they look like little Ku Klux Klan hoods, and I have never been able to get that image out of my mind.
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