I wonder

Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
Since my thread in All Sainti on Yeheil Curry was closed after 24 hours of no activity, should that be the same rule for all threads. I mean. I have seen threads pop back up after months of no activity. Shouldn't be there some consistency with all the threads. Even if the thread did not have any more activity, it would slowly sink to the bottom of the message board. I feel slighted with this decision.

Comments

  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    I think you need to read the second clause in the sentence, rather than just the first:
    ...doesn't seem any more to be said
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    I did read the second clause. How does the moderator know there is nothing more to be said? If there is nothing more to be said, the thread would sink to the bottom of the board like other threads. No, it was closed abruptly and, to me, arbitrarily. There should be consistency in allowing threads to stay active. Either that, or there needs to be a rule about how long all threads should stay open before they close. Yes, I am a little put out about this.
  • The Bishop Curry thread seemed to be turning into a spat between @Gramps49 and another poster, so closure was maybe the best thing at that stage.

    Presiding Bishop Curry, and the ELCA in general, may well be of interest, but Lutherans are very thin on the ground in the UK, so rather beneath our radar on this side of the Pond.

    The subject might make an interesting thread in Ecclesiantics, though.
  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    The decision to close the thread was the result of some discussion backstage. As the OP observed, the thread was an announcement so arguably there was nothing to discuss at all. Moreover, some of the posts were fractious and not in keeping with the spirit of All Saints. The closure of the thread was not intended as a slight to anyone.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited August 6
    I think you need to read the second clause in the sentence, rather than just the first:
    ...doesn't seem any more to be said
    I agree that the thread seemed to be closed unusually quickly. My experience of the Ship doesn’t bear out the idea that we can tell there’s nothing more to be said by just 24 hours with no posts.

    There are a lot of threads in All Saints that are still open even though no one has posted in them for over a year. One thread in All Saints hasn’t been posted in since December 2023, but it’s still open. I recently posted in a Heaven thread that hadn’t had a post since November, and posting has now continued in that thread by a number of people.

    So I don’t think it is at all unreasonable to ask how a determination could be made in this particular thread that no comments in 24 hours meant there was nothing more to be said and the thread should be closed.


    The Bishop Curry thread seemed to be turning into a spat between @Gramps49 and another poster, so closure was maybe the best thing at that stage.
    Why closure rather than moderation and redirection?

    Presiding Bishop Curry, and the ELCA in general, may well be of interest, but Lutherans are very thin on the ground in the UK, so rather beneath our radar on this side of the Pond.
    The frequently UK-centric assumptions of the Ship not withstanding, there are lot of Shipmates who are not from the UK, including a number of Lutheran shipmates. Maybe those for whom this is beneath their radar could read and learn, or just ignore.

    The subject might make an interesting thread in Ecclesiantics, though.
    @Gramps49 first posted it in Ecclesiantics, but that thread was quickly closed as not having anything to do with worship and liturgy, which is what Ecclesiantics is for.


    ETA: Cross-posted with @Nenya.

    I appreciate the explanation, but I must say that I still think the decision wasn’t a good one. I assumed no slight was intended, but thought should also be given to perception, and in light of two other recent threads by Gramps being closed very quickly, the perception was inevitable.

    As for it being an announcement, why not a quick question from a host at least asking whether there is something to be discussed before closing?


  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Nenya wrote: »
    The decision to close the thread was the result of some discussion backstage. As the OP observed, the thread was an announcement so arguably there was nothing to discuss at all.
    "Arguably" means you could make the argument, implying someone else could argue the opposite. Lots of announcements are discussed. And when there is nothing to discuss, threads just sink.
    Moreover, some of the posts were fractious and not in keeping with the spirit of All Saints.
    So just say that on the thread.
    The closure of the thread was not intended as a slight to anyone.

    IMO intent doesn't matter as much as effect. This was heavy-handed.
  • HeavenlyannieHeavenlyannie Shipmate
    edited August 6
    I also was surprised that the thread was closed, and would have expected just a reminder that the thread was in All Saints so participants should voice their contributions and tone appropriately.
    Closing it didn’t seem in the spirit of All Saints as a community focused board.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    One poster did take exception to me making comparisons between Leo and Curry, but that was--and is--his problem. There was no argument on my part.

    You know, if the moderator had just let things stand, it would have just quietly gone into oblivion in due course, but the arbitrary closure resulted in this thread. I just think it was ill advised to cut the thread off, especially when there have been many other threads going back years that can still be bumped up if someone had a mind to say something in it. The inconsistencies I have seen on this forum are very frustrating.
  • You called? 😉

    FWIW, I raised a question on The Styx about the closure of the initial Ecclesiantics thread about Bishop Curry.

    I was surprised to see the subsequent All Saints thread closed so soon but respect that decision, particularly if it was going to turn into a wearying spat between you and I over comparisons - inane or otherwise - between Pope Leo and Bishop Curry.

    I agree with @Nenya that there wasn't really anything more to be said. Bishop Curry. Good appointment. Hurrah! End of.

    I don't take umbrage at the Hostly admonitions and advice I received. I felt they were appropriate and yes, I should have backed off rather than continue to yap at you over your apparent misrepresentation of my position - effectively accusing me of sectarianism when I was guilty of no such thing.

    If I was guilty of anything it was continuing to post on a thread where anything useful that could be said had been said already and where I'd ignored pleas for me to desist.

    I'll leave it there.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    I was surprised to see the subsequent All Saints thread closed so soon but respect that decision, particularly if it was going to turn into a wearying spat between you and I over comparisons - inane or otherwise - between Pope Leo and Bishop Curry.
    You say that as though you had no control over whether it turned into a wearying spat between you and Gramps.

    I agree with @Nenya that there wasn't really anything more to be said.
    And I frankly don’t know how anyone could reasonably know that. Maybe someone who would have liked to have said something just hadn’t had a chance yet because life kept them from having time for those 24 hours,

    If it was really believed that there was probably nothing more to be said, why not just let the thread sink, as appears to be done as a matter of course with most other All Saints threads? Intended or not, treating Gramp’s thread differently from other All Saints threads and making a point of closing the thread so quickly, and on the heels of the quick closure of two other threads Gramps started recently, sent the message that he’s being singled out for more strict treatment.


  • Or that the Hosts and Admins are trying to protect him from me?

    I'm not saying they are ...

    But as my post was the last one on that thread before it was closed, I could take umbrage if I wanted to. But I'm not.

    Of course I take full responsibility for my posts and am not saying or implying that I have 'no control' over them.

    I was advised to skate past that thread. I didn't take that advice.

    That's my responsibility and my 'problem' as it were.

    I'll admit and acknowledge that much.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Bishop's Finger wrote
    Presiding Bishop Curry, and the ELCA in general, may well be of interest, but Lutherans are very thin on the ground in the UK, so rather beneath our radar on this side of the Pond.

    The Anglican Communion and the Lutheran World Federation are in communion with each other. Your bishop Curry had quite an impact on Lutheran perceptions when he preached at the wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Merkle. He also led a very important delegation to Rome.

    The Anglicans, Lutherans and Roman Catholics have been working long and hard to create a more unified body of Christ this side of eternity. That also goes with the Orthodox, though on a different plane. To have leaders of the different communions who appear to have close connections only helps in further dialogues I would think

    There is a current thread about what forms of Christian Union was there in the 1800s. I am not so interested in that history, but I am interested in the attempts at unity in the 2000s.
  • Those are laudable concerns, @Gramps49 and my thread about past attempts at collaboration and cooperation do not, of course, preclude discussion on contemporary ecumenical initiatives.

    I have caused some disquiet on these boards and will voluntarily take some shore-leave for a week or two.

    Please accept my apologies, both posters, Hosts and Admins for any extra stress or hassle I've caused.

    I'll try to maintain a Ship-fast until at least after the Feast of The Dormition and thereafter attempt to post more constructively.

    Peace be to all.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited August 6
    @Gamma Gamaliel As someone point out up thread, this forum is for Christian unrest. Disquiet is par for the course. But, if you chose to go on fast until after the feast of The Dormition, we will see you later.
  • SpikeSpike Ecclesiantics & MW Host, Admin Emeritus
    The subject might make an interesting thread in Ecclesiantics, though.

    No. Ecclesiantics is for discussion about liturgy and/or worship practice.

    Spike
    Ecclesiantics Host
  • Spike wrote: »
    The subject might make an interesting thread in Ecclesiantics, though.

    No. Ecclesiantics is for discussion about liturgy and/or worship practice.

    Spike
    Ecclesiantics Host

    Fair comment. I should have suggested *Purgatory*. My bad.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Or that the Hosts and Admins are trying to protect him from me?

    If I am to be completely honest, I do think that is the fundamental reason the thread was closed rather than left to sink or swim on its own merits. I believe hosts felt closing it when it wasn’t posted on, was a way of avoiding a prolonged negative interaction that was not quite crossing the line into a commandment breach.

    It appears the community would have preferred some form of hostly admonition - we will take that under advisement.

    Doublethink, Admin
  • Sure. I have been around long enough to have suspected as much and will impose a temporary voluntary ban on myself accordingly and will accept any Hostly admonition should it arise.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Spike wrote: »
    The subject might make an interesting thread in Ecclesiantics, though.

    No. Ecclesiantics is for discussion about liturgy and/or worship practice.

    Spike
    Ecclesiantics Host

    Fair comment. I should have suggested *Purgatory*. My bad.

    There have been times when I had posted what amounted to an announcement and a moderator will come back and ask what is there to debate and shortly thereafter it would get closed. I knew the simple announcement of Yeheil Curry would have gotten the same treatment. I thought, since it was church related, Ecclesiantics would be appropriate, but as Spike and Piglet to me said, it is not liturgical or worship related. Looking around, then, it seemed announcements are to be in All Saints, so I posted a follow on article about Curry's background, comparing it a bit to Leo's. @Gamma Gamaliel replied back with a chip on his shoulder, lambasting my comments. I specifically said I did not want to make the thread purgatorial; yet he persisted, even when the administrators admonished him to back off.

    There have been other times when participants have not heeded admonitions, and they ?faced consequences. But, this time, while I am trying to follow the rule, it is me that gets slapped down as it were.

    There is no consistency here. Lately, it seems whatever I have posted will be summarily closed without much explanation.

    Is that fair?

  • LeafLeaf Shipmate
    I nominate the following for contributing to the problems with the thread and thread closure:

    (1) Gramps49, for attempting to drum up interest in a not-very-interesting topic by desperately linking it with a non-relevant topic of possibly greater interest
    (2) GammaGamaliel, for yammering
    (3) Nenya, for overly anxious hosting

    None of these is terrible on their own, but combined, they made for a trifecta of discussion thread problems.

    Gramps49: I understand that you think the election of a new national bishop for the ELCA is interesting. The truth is, in the context of this discussion board, it's really not. Shipmates may be too polite to tell you that, but you know that yourself. Your embarrassing attempt to create some sort of link between Bishop Curry and Pope Leo (because maybe more shipmates would find him worthy of discussion!) shows that.

    Hey, guess what? The Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada also elected a new national bishop! Woo hoo! Do you know why I didn't post about it? Because nobody here fucking cares . Social awareness of Ship culture helps to know how to post discussions here appropriately. The election would probably be an interesting topic for my local clergy group, for synodical events, and for other ELCiC Lutherans. Shipmates may manage an "oh, okay" response... and I would expect nothing else, given the kind of discussions we have here.

    GammaGamaliel: you correctly identified the spurious nature of what Gramps49 was attempting to do, but you wouldn't shut up about it, even when advised and you agreed with that advice. Wtf.

    Nenya: I understand why the closure of the thread seemed prudent, given the above two factors. I agree that a host post, prior to closure, would have been a good move. I also think it would have been preferable to let the thread sink under the weight of its own idiocy, even at the risk of continued pointless exchanges.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited 12:29AM
    @Leaf. When did this become a hell thread? And how can you know what everyone thinks of my announcement? You can only speak for yourself. Moreover, stop projecting your intent on me. My intent was only to be informative.

  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    @Gramps49 , for what it is worth, I do not think that @Leaf 's posting was hellish. It was a calm, lucid explanation of the issue. I agree with it 100%

    If I wanted to be hellish, though, I would point out that your intial posting in All Saints said:
    the Catholic Parish where Bishop Leo was raised ate in the same neighborhood
    I know that the Pope is technically "Bishop of Rome" but, as a Catholic, I found you referencing Pope Leo as "Bishop" offensive. But I did not call you on it. I let it slide, because I was sure that your response would be "but he is just bishop of Rome." And that is technically correct as Pope Francis himself emphasized. But it does not change the fact that, as a Catholic, I found it offensive that you referred to Pope Leo in that manner--and in All Saints of all the boards! If you said that in Hell, I would have no quibble. But in All Saints? Really? You cannot respect other Christian faiths enough to call the head of their faith by the proper title? Really?

    But, as I said, I was willing to let it go until I saw you here, in Styx whining about how your pointless thread telling me that somebody I never heard of was appointed to a post I never heard of was somehow important and needed discussion because it was geographically close to some place where "Bishop" Leo had stepped. I am with the Hosts on this one. It was a non-topic for non-discussion.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Lately, it seems whatever I have posted will be summarily closed without much explanation.

    Is that fair?

    You are currently posting over 100 times a month, which is fine. However, it reads as if you are posting without thinking some of your OPs through - with the result that some of them get closed, because they are not a good enough fit to the forum on which you are posting.

    The functional result of an ill-fitting OP is likely to be some kind of dispute on the thread with other shipmates. Sometimes this impacts the thread in such a way, that it works better to start over with a new thread than try to salvage the original.

    This is because people coming to the thread later start responding to the dispute and not the OP.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited 4:49AM
    @Hedgehog if you want to make a Hell call, make a Hell call - don’t pursue personal disputes in Styx.

    Doublethink, Styx Hosting
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    I don't think it's fair to talk as if @Nenya alone was responsible for the hosting decision. Except in the case of blindingly obvious breaches of the rules, most hosting is discussed backstage prior to anything being done. Several hosts provided input on what a number of us felt to be a problematic thread (not much to discuss + developing personal spat).
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    @Hedgehog if you want to make a Hell call, make a Hell call - don’t pursue personal disputes in Styx.

    Doublethink, Styx Hosting

    My apologies.
  • I don't think it's fair to talk as if @Nenya alone was responsible for the hosting decision. Except in the case of blindingly obvious breaches of the rules, most hosting is discussed backstage prior to anything being done. Several hosts provided input on what a number of us felt to be a problematic thread (not much to discuss + developing personal spat).

    A point worth remembering, and @Nenya did mention backstage discussion in an earlier post.
Sign In or Register to comment.