It is not often remembered that in the first Planet Of The Apes movie, a major part of the plot involves a parody of the Scopes Trial, in which the humans try to convince the apes of their common origin.
I don't THINK the apes are portrayed as having a religion, but their horrified attitude at the theory of evolution clearly mimics those of certain biblical-literalists in the contemporary era.
Just watching old clips from the franchise on YouTube, and the second movie, Beneath The Planet Of The Apes, features a cult of humans who worship the nuclear bomb. Very Cold War motif.
The video is called "BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES clip: warhead worship". There is debate in the comments section about how much the liturgy and music used by the cult resembles that of real-life denominations. By my lights, it seems broadly patterned after the standard RC/Anglican service.
Sorry if I confused people with the whole no allegories of a real world religion the author intends to promote. The only work I can think of that this covers are the Narnia books, and I haven’t read any of Lewis’ other fiction so I can’t comment on it.
I don’t think the supernatural beings in Lord of the Rings were intended by Tolkien as an allegory to promote Christianity, but I don’t really see the LOTR books as having a religion in the sense I wanted to discuss because, as far as I know, there is no need in them for anyone to have faith in the Ainur, Valar, etc, because everyone knows they exist - they may just disagree about whether Sauron or anyone else is a threat and how much power humans and other beings can and should claim relative to those powerful beings.
Are there any fictional religions set in this world or a future version of this world that people like?
I should point out that Narnia is not an allegory. Symbolic in various ways, and Aslan is "what if Jesus became incarnate in another world"" but not an allegory like Pilgrim's Progress (or Lewis' excellent Pilgrim's Regress).
You liked Regress? Ugh, I found it just as heavy-handed and intelligence-insulting as the original. One of the few Lewis tomes I never reread.
But it's supposed to be didactic isn't it? I liked the original too although I found them both terrifying at certain points...
Didactic covers a range. The Pilgrims are on the wrong end of that range.
Sorry if I confused people with the whole no allegories of a real world religion the author intends to promote. The only work I can think of that this covers are the Narnia books, and I haven’t read any of Lewis’ other fiction so I can’t comment on it.
I don’t think the supernatural beings in Lord of the Rings were intended by Tolkien as an allegory to promote Christianity, but I don’t really see the LOTR books as having a religion in the sense I wanted to discuss because, as far as I know, there is no need in them for anyone to have faith in the Ainur, Valar, etc, because everyone knows they exist - they may just disagree about whether Sauron or anyone else is a threat and how much power humans and other beings can and should claim relative to those powerful beings.
Are there any fictional religions set in this world or a future version of this world that people like?
I should point out that Narnia is not an allegory. Symbolic in various ways, and Aslan is "what if Jesus became incarnate in another world"" but not an allegory like Pilgrim's Progress (or Lewis' excellent Pilgrim's Regress).
You liked Regress? Ugh, I found it just as heavy-handed and intelligence-insulting as the original. One of the few Lewis tomes I never reread.
But it's supposed to be didactic isn't it? I liked the original too although I found them both terrifying at certain points...
I actually need to get around to reading pilgrim’s progress someday, but I definitely love Lewis’ pilgrim’s regress. I don’t think I find it terrifying in any way, but profound, definitely.
I’m quite surprised that a discussion of fictional religions has reached page 2 without any mention of The Force.
And lest anyone doubt its inclusion on the list, it’s specifically referred to (albeit disparagingly) as a religion in A New Hope, by a character whose lack of faith Darth Vader finds disturbing…
I remember as a kid, reading Brave New World, and roughly umderstanding why such a society would deify a certain American tycoon and replace the cross of Christ with a T, but I don't think I quite realized how that would hit home for a readership still living at the apex of the industrial age, with assembly-lines perceived as the ultimate in history-altering technology.
Also, considering what a dour old coot that particular industrialist reputedly was, I assume it was supposed to be a joke that the rites in his honour were just big sex-and-drug orgies.
I’m quite surprised that a discussion of fictional religions has reached page 2 without any mention of The Force.
And lest anyone doubt its inclusion on the list, it’s specifically referred to (albeit disparagingly) as a religion in A New Hope, by a character whose lack of faith Darth Vader finds disturbing…
A New Hope is the 1977 film, right? Which character calls the Force a religion?
“Don’t try to scare us with your sorcerous ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to locate the rebel’s hidden for-” (starts choking)
And then there is also the old joke where Luke Skywalker says, 'May the Force Be with You" and all the Episcopalians and Lutherans reply, "And also with you."
Of course, George Lucas developed the Star Wars franchise based on Buddhist principles.
Whenever I see a fictional religion in a book or a movie, I am constantly looking for parallels with the established religions of today.
“Don’t try to scare us with your sorcerous ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to locate the rebel’s hidden for-” (starts choking)
And then there is also the old joke where Luke Skywalker says, 'May the Force Be with You" and all the Episcopalians and Lutherans reply, "And also with you."
Of course, George Lucas developed the Star Wars franchise based on Buddhist principles.
And Joseph Campbell's Man with a Thousand Faces.
Whenever I see a fictional religion in a book or a movie, I am constantly looking for parallels with the established religions of today.
And then there is also the old joke where Luke Skywalker says, 'May the Force Be with You" and all the Episcopalians and Lutherans reply, "And also with you."
The Presbyterians, too. Not so much the Catholics anymore, since they went back to “And with your Spirit.”
Of course, George Lucas developed the Star Wars franchise based on Buddhist principles.
When it comes to the Force, Taoism was an influence as well.
Frankly, I never saw the Force as a true fictional religion, as such, but rather more as a philosophical boiling down of familiar religions, with a generous dash of New Age stuff thrown in.
And then there is also the old joke where Luke Skywalker says, 'May the Force Be with You" and all the Episcopalians and Lutherans reply, "And also with you."
Of course, George Lucas developed the Star Wars franchise based on Buddhist principles.
And Joseph Campbell's Man with a Thousand Faces.
Whenever I see a fictional religion in a book or a movie, I am constantly looking for parallels with the established religions of today.
In my children's literature class in the late 1980s, we watched Bill Moyers' interviews with Campbell, conducted at Skywalker Ranch.
When Attack Of The Clones came out in 2002, Salon magazine ran an opinion-piece called Galactic Gasbag, arguing that Lucas did NOT base the original movie on Campbell's theory of mythology, and only jumped on that bandwagon when Campbell himself started drawing after-the-fact parallels.
No idea who's right about that, and I doubt the article did much to dissuade anyone from believing in the linkage.
And then there is also the old joke where Luke Skywalker says, 'May the Force Be with You" and all the Episcopalians and Lutherans reply, "And also with you."
The Presbyterians, too.
In my experience Presbyterians are slightly uncomfortable with responsorial prayers, but that's probably a pond and/or regional difference.
And then there is also the old joke where Luke Skywalker says, 'May the Force Be with You" and all the Episcopalians and Lutherans reply, "And also with you."
The Presbyterians, too. Not so much the Catholics anymore, since they went back to “And with your Spirit.”
Wow. When I became a Christian and was then baptized Roman Catholic, we used "And also with you," and I didn't know till just now that this had changed. (I only became an Episcopalian later.)
(... and also "Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again" is gone? I weep!)
Frankly, I never saw the Force as a true fictional religion, as such, but rather more as a philosophical boiling down of familiar religions, with a generous dash of New Age stuff thrown in.
It's definitely a spiritual phenomenon, but AFAIK, lacks any form of organized worship or clergy.
And then there is also the old joke where Luke Skywalker says, 'May the Force Be with You" and all the Episcopalians and Lutherans reply, "And also with you."
The Presbyterians, too.
In my experience Presbyterians are slightly uncomfortable with responsorial prayers, but that's probably a pond and/or regional difference.
Yes, I should have said “American Presbyterians.” (As @Gramps49 is American, I was thinking it.). American Presbyterians, at least if the PC(USA) variety, are very comfortable with it and very used to it.
Frankly, I never saw the Force as a true fictional religion, as such, but rather more as a philosophical boiling down of familiar religions, with a generous dash of New Age stuff thrown in.
It's definitely a spiritual phenomenon, but AFAIK, lacks any form of organized worship or clergy.
I think the Jedi and Sith would both count in some ways, and the Jedi even have Jedi Temples. There are sacred scriptures and such, too.
Frankly, I never saw the Force as a true fictional religion, as such, but rather more as a philosophical boiling down of familiar religions, with a generous dash of New Age stuff thrown in.
It's definitely a spiritual phenomenon, but AFAIK, lacks any form of organized worship or clergy.
I think the Jedi and Sith would both count in some ways, and the Jedi even have Jedi Temples. There are sacred scriptures and such, too.
Just kinda goin' off the top of my head here, they're likely patterned after medieval chivalric orders, and all their romantically religious codes of honour.
(Not feeling particularly inclined to defend my thesis, beyond pointing out that the name of the group is "Jedi Knights".)
And then there is also the old joke where Luke Skywalker says, 'May the Force Be with You" and all the Episcopalians and Lutherans reply, "And also with you."
Of course, George Lucas developed the Star Wars franchise based on Buddhist principles.
And Joseph Campbell's Man with a Thousand Faces.
Whenever I see a fictional religion in a book or a movie, I am constantly looking for parallels with the established religions of today.
In my children's literature class in the late 1980s, we watched Bill Moyers' interviews with Campbell, conducted at Skywalker Ranch.
When Attack Of The Clones came out in 2002, Salon magazine ran an opinion-piece called Galactic Gasbag, arguing that Lucas did NOT base the original movie on Campbell's theory of mythology, and only jumped on that bandwagon when Campbell himself started drawing after-the-fact parallels.
No idea who's right about that, and I doubt the article did much to dissuade anyone from believing in the linkage.
If Campbell is right, it doesn't really matter if he was consciously basing it on the universal story; the story is in our veins, and we writes variants of it without having to think about it. The Hobbit is an other example and follows the archetype very closely. ET, on the other hand, has close affinities to the Christian gospel, although Lucas decries any such comparison. But again at least in Europe and countries colonized thereby, that story is in our veins.
And then there is also the old joke where Luke Skywalker says, 'May the Force Be with You" and all the Episcopalians and Lutherans reply, "And also with you."
Of course, George Lucas developed the Star Wars franchise based on Buddhist principles.
And Joseph Campbell's Man with a Thousand Faces.
Whenever I see a fictional religion in a book or a movie, I am constantly looking for parallels with the established religions of today.
In my children's literature class in the late 1980s, we watched Bill Moyers' interviews with Campbell, conducted at Skywalker Ranch.
When Attack Of The Clones came out in 2002, Salon magazine ran an opinion-piece called Galactic Gasbag, arguing that Lucas did NOT base the original movie on Campbell's theory of mythology, and only jumped on that bandwagon when Campbell himself started drawing after-the-fact parallels.
No idea who's right about that, and I doubt the article did much to dissuade anyone from believing in the linkage.
If Campbell is right, it doesn't really matter if he was consciously basing it on the universal story; the story is in our veins, and we writes variants of it without having to think about it. The Hobbit is an other example and follows the archetype very closely. ET, on the other hand, has close affinities to the Christian gospel, although Lucas decries any such comparison. But again at least in Europe and countries colonized thereby, that story is in our veins.
Very true. But my recollection of the article's thesis is that Lucas' self-linkage with Campbell seemed calculated to give people the impression that Campbell's actual theories had been part of his creative inspiration from the beginning.
The article is no longer up, though the comments-section appears to be. It wouldn't surprise me if the only evidence posited was that Lucas at some point started associating himself with Campbell, and didn't go out of his way to stop people from drawing their own conclusions about any pre-existing connection between his art and Campbell's theories. The writer did seem to also have a pretty strong agenda of criticizing Lucas for allegedly short-changing the influence of popular sci-fi on his work. "He owes more to Flash Gordon than to jungian literary theory" or some such.
(No real dog in this fight, myself. I can't actually remember if I came away from that kiddie-lit class with any particular idea of Campbell's influence of Lucas.)
Frankly, I never saw the Force as a true fictional religion, as such, but rather more as a philosophical boiling down of familiar religions, with a generous dash of New Age stuff thrown in.
It's definitely a spiritual phenomenon, but AFAIK, lacks any form of organized worship or clergy.
I have a vague recollection of someone in the original trilogy (maybe Billy Dee Williams) making a disparaging reference to the Jedi as "that old religion." But I'm not a Star Wars fan and have only seen the movies once.
I have a fondness for Anoia, the Goddess of Things That Get Stuck In Drawers.
Yes! She was the first one that came to my mind. Especially the bit in Going Postal where Moist gets a "revelation" about some missing money, and suddenly Anoia's lone priestess is overrun with worshippers.
I have a fondness for Anoia, the Goddess of Things That Get Stuck In Drawers.
Yes! She was the first one that came to my mind. Especially the bit in Going Postal where Moist gets a "revelation" about some missing money, and suddenly Anoia's lone priestess is overrun with worshippers.
And votive donations of fish slices, egg whisks, ladles and other sundry items that get stuck in kitchen drawers, requiring worshippers to call on her with the cry "Come Annoia, I rattle my drawers for thee!"
I can't offhand find the reference, but IIRC Ankh-Morpork has a house occupied by The Unspeakable Brothers of Ee (I may not have that exactly right).
My appellation here in Arkland is, in fact, Ee - a shortening of my already short forename. If I do indeed have some Unspeakable Brothers, I'd like to know more, so that I can join in whatever arcane, forbidden, eldritch, and unspeakable practices they...umm...practise.
I can't offhand find the reference, but IIRC Ankh-Morpork has a house occupied by The Unspeakable Brothers of Ee (I may not have that exactly right).
My appellation here in Arkland is, in fact, Ee - a shortening of my already short forename. If I do indeed have some Unspeakable Brothers, I'd like to know more, so that I can join in whatever arcane, forbidden, eldritch, and unspeakable practices they...umm...practise.
There's also the Elucidated Brethren of the Ebon Night (Guards, Guards)
I can't offhand find the reference, but IIRC Ankh-Morpork has a house occupied by The Unspeakable Brothers of Ee (I may not have that exactly right).
My appellation here in Arkland is, in fact, Ee - a shortening of my already short forename. If I do indeed have some Unspeakable Brothers, I'd like to know more, so that I can join in whatever arcane, forbidden, eldritch, and unspeakable practices they...umm...practise.
There's also the Elucidated Brethren of the Ebon Night (Guards, Guards)
Hmm. I missed them somehow, but I'd rather be an Unspeakable Brother of Ee. Being an Elucidated Brother of the Ebon Night sounds as though it might be a bit boring, taking place in the dark, and all that...
I can't offhand find the reference, but IIRC Ankh-Morpork has a house occupied by The Unspeakable Brothers of Ee (I may not have that exactly right).
My appellation here in Arkland is, in fact, Ee - a shortening of my already short forename. If I do indeed have some Unspeakable Brothers, I'd like to know more, so that I can join in whatever arcane, forbidden, eldritch, and unspeakable practices they...umm...practise.
There's also the Elucidated Brethren of the Ebon Night (Guards, Guards)
And the Young Men's Reformed Cultists of the Ichor God Bel-Shamharoth Association - better known as the Young Men's Pagan Association.
Pterry seems to have been a fertile source of religions.
Oh, and Babylonia, goddess of “all things fertile,” I believe, whose giant stone mask would come to life, sometimes singing “I’m in the Mood for Love.” I miss her. You can still see her at Jock Lindsey’s Hangar Bar, up in the rafters, though she’s currently inactive. Asleep, let’s say…
Not particularly a favourite, but the stereotypical (pseudo)religion/cult encountered by Blake's 7 in the third episode - Cygnus Alpha, I mention for completeness.
Comments
Just watching old clips from the franchise on YouTube, and the second movie, Beneath The Planet Of The Apes, features a cult of humans who worship the nuclear bomb. Very Cold War motif.
The video is called "BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES clip: warhead worship". There is debate in the comments section about how much the liturgy and music used by the cult resembles that of real-life denominations. By my lights, it seems broadly patterned after the standard RC/Anglican service.
Didactic covers a range. The Pilgrims are on the wrong end of that range.
I actually need to get around to reading pilgrim’s progress someday, but I definitely love Lewis’ pilgrim’s regress. I don’t think I find it terrifying in any way, but profound, definitely.
And lest anyone doubt its inclusion on the list, it’s specifically referred to (albeit disparagingly) as a religion in A New Hope, by a character whose lack of faith Darth Vader finds disturbing…
Also, considering what a dour old coot that particular industrialist reputedly was, I assume it was supposed to be a joke that the rites in his honour were just big sex-and-drug orgies.
A New Hope is the 1977 film, right? Which character calls the Force a religion?
“Don’t try to scare us with your sorcerous ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to locate the rebel’s hidden for-” (starts choking)
“I find your lack of faith disturbing”
Of course, George Lucas developed the Star Wars franchise based on Buddhist principles.
Whenever I see a fictional religion in a book or a movie, I am constantly looking for parallels with the established religions of today.
Thanks. I remember that scene now.
And Joseph Campbell's Man with a Thousand Faces.
Elsewhere, the moving religion of Absolution Gap provides the setting for one period of the plot.
When it comes to the Force, Taoism was an influence as well.
Frankly, I never saw the Force as a true fictional religion, as such, but rather more as a philosophical boiling down of familiar religions, with a generous dash of New Age stuff thrown in.
In my children's literature class in the late 1980s, we watched Bill Moyers' interviews with Campbell, conducted at Skywalker Ranch.
When Attack Of The Clones came out in 2002, Salon magazine ran an opinion-piece called Galactic Gasbag, arguing that Lucas did NOT base the original movie on Campbell's theory of mythology, and only jumped on that bandwagon when Campbell himself started drawing after-the-fact parallels.
No idea who's right about that, and I doubt the article did much to dissuade anyone from believing in the linkage.
In my experience Presbyterians are slightly uncomfortable with responsorial prayers, but that's probably a pond and/or regional difference.
What? No... I had no idea...
https://www.npr.org/2008/08/11/93419478/catholics-will-no-longer-recite-and-also-with-you
Wow. When I became a Christian and was then baptized Roman Catholic, we used "And also with you," and I didn't know till just now that this had changed. (I only became an Episcopalian later.)
(... and also "Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again" is gone? I weep!)
Carry on...
It's definitely a spiritual phenomenon, but AFAIK, lacks any form of organized worship or clergy.
I think the Jedi and Sith would both count in some ways, and the Jedi even have Jedi Temples. There are sacred scriptures and such, too.
Just kinda goin' off the top of my head here, they're likely patterned after medieval chivalric orders, and all their romantically religious codes of honour.
(Not feeling particularly inclined to defend my thesis, beyond pointing out that the name of the group is "Jedi Knights".)
If Campbell is right, it doesn't really matter if he was consciously basing it on the universal story; the story is in our veins, and we writes variants of it without having to think about it. The Hobbit is an other example and follows the archetype very closely. ET, on the other hand, has close affinities to the Christian gospel, although Lucas decries any such comparison. But again at least in Europe and countries colonized thereby, that story is in our veins.
Very true. But my recollection of the article's thesis is that Lucas' self-linkage with Campbell seemed calculated to give people the impression that Campbell's actual theories had been part of his creative inspiration from the beginning.
The article is no longer up, though the comments-section appears to be. It wouldn't surprise me if the only evidence posited was that Lucas at some point started associating himself with Campbell, and didn't go out of his way to stop people from drawing their own conclusions about any pre-existing connection between his art and Campbell's theories. The writer did seem to also have a pretty strong agenda of criticizing Lucas for allegedly short-changing the influence of popular sci-fi on his work. "He owes more to Flash Gordon than to jungian literary theory" or some such.
(No real dog in this fight, myself. I can't actually remember if I came away from that kiddie-lit class with any particular idea of Campbell's influence of Lucas.)
I have a vague recollection of someone in the original trilogy (maybe Billy Dee Williams) making a disparaging reference to the Jedi as "that old religion." But I'm not a Star Wars fan and have only seen the movies once.
Yes! She was the first one that came to my mind. Especially the bit in Going Postal where Moist gets a "revelation" about some missing money, and suddenly Anoia's lone priestess is overrun with worshippers.
And votive donations of fish slices, egg whisks, ladles and other sundry items that get stuck in kitchen drawers, requiring worshippers to call on her with the cry "Come Annoia, I rattle my drawers for thee!"
My appellation here in Arkland is, in fact, Ee - a shortening of my already short forename. If I do indeed have some Unspeakable Brothers, I'd like to know more, so that I can join in whatever arcane, forbidden, eldritch, and unspeakable practices they...umm...practise.
There's also the Elucidated Brethren of the Ebon Night (Guards, Guards)
Hmm. I missed them somehow, but I'd rather be an Unspeakable Brother of Ee. Being an Elucidated Brother of the Ebon Night sounds as though it might be a bit boring, taking place in the dark, and all that...
And the Young Men's Reformed Cultists of the Ichor God Bel-Shamharoth Association - better known as the Young Men's Pagan Association.
Pterry seems to have been a fertile source of religions.
No wonder poor Om could only manifest himself as a bad-tempered Tortoise...