Australian politics - effective opposition
WhimsicalChristian
Shipmate
in Purgatory
My book is boring. Let's talk politics.
For an effective opposition government, the liberals need a leader with the X factor. Dutton didn't have it, Ley doesn't have it. It needs to be someone Australians will think, yes I'd be proud to have them as my prime minister.
Party politics and policies no longer have the loyalties of the past. There's a big swing vote depending on the X factor of the leader.
Littleproud isn't bad as leader of the nationals. Bridget McKenzie isn't bad but both are down the coalition ladder as a subparty and I don't think either of them have the full X factor either.
Who do you think has the X factor to lead the opposition?
For an effective opposition government, the liberals need a leader with the X factor. Dutton didn't have it, Ley doesn't have it. It needs to be someone Australians will think, yes I'd be proud to have them as my prime minister.
Party politics and policies no longer have the loyalties of the past. There's a big swing vote depending on the X factor of the leader.
Littleproud isn't bad as leader of the nationals. Bridget McKenzie isn't bad but both are down the coalition ladder as a subparty and I don't think either of them have the full X factor either.
Who do you think has the X factor to lead the opposition?
Comments
I’m 73 and hope to die while Labor is still in power.
And that course leaves you with still more decisions to make - sauce or mustard, or even both (not recommended?
One thing I've always wondered about is whether compulsory voting makes a difference. We don't have it in NZ, but in my family the rule was - if you don't vote you can't complain about the result. I have never not voted, but once, years ago, I crossed out all the candidates names because I didn't think any of them were up to the job.
And it is true that if you don’t vote then don’t whinge about the outcome.
A slightly scary aside: last Federal election the Exclusive Brethren were out in force on the hustings and handing out how to vote material for the ( now defunct) Coalition. The Brethren are opposed to voting themselves but the leadership are very much in bed with the conservatives and have been big donors to the Coalition cause. On election day they cast aside their normal attire and were inexpertly disguised in yellow T shirts and caps for the ladies ( who put aside their normal headgear. Their bad behaviour at polling boths was both remarkable and remarked upon and likely did not help the Coalition’s cause.
A small but noisy group who despite their oft-proclaimed shunning of “worldly” types are prepared to muscle in when it comes to supporting the conservative political factions ( even if this includes filthy papists such as the ( former PM) Tony Abbott and the right wing of New South Wales Liberals ( heavily involved with Opus Dei)
I've never heard of an anti-voting religious group participating in campaigns.
Are the Brethren required to vote in Australia, or do they get exemptions from the law?
I'm no expert on Australian politics but I hope you don't mind a few well-intended observations.
- British expats who take Australian citizenship such as my relatives and some of the neighbours seem to lurch to the right once they've settled there and think nothing of telling British visitors how shit everything is over here (apart from the history and heritage) and how wonderful Australia would be if it wasn't for more recent waves of immigrants who are spoiling it for previous waves of immigrants like them.
- Albanesi is responsible for anything and everything that goes wrong. If they stub their big toe somehow it's his fault.
- There are strong parallels with British politics, whether right, left or centre.
- A lot of young people appear to have fairly right-wing views, even the sons and daughters of migrants who were given a hard time when they first arrived in Australia. Again, I can draw parallels with migrant experiences here too.
- On local level, as here, there are very laudable initiatives from regional politicians of all political parties and none.
I'm short, it's a mirror-image of what we have here, and elsewhere too no doubt.
They are forbidden to vote by their leaders so are not on the electoral roll.
But I assume there was at one point official permission granted to members of their faith to stay off the electoral rolls?
I suspect that most take the easy way out and are not on the electoral roll.
I might add that the fine for failing to front up & vote ( if on the roll) is a trifling $20.
Also going to vote can be a bit of fun ( apart from the queue) as a lot of polling booths are at the local primary school and the P& F invariably use the occasion to sell barbecued sausage sandwiches) ( the famed democracy sausage), cakes , soft drinks and the like so an opportunity to fundraise for the school, be sociable & grab a snag sanger & some home-baked goodies. What’s not to like?
Where is your "here"?
When I first came to Australia I was given permanent residence after a year.
As I saw myself as a temporary resident with no investment in the country I decided I shouldn't vote
When an election came along it was easy enough to vote informally so that it wouldn't count.
I had assumed that is what the EBs would do, so was surprised to hear that they were legally not on the electoral roll.
There was a comment about the current Labor administration being 'very left wing' whilst the general consensus, I think, is that it's 'centre-left'.
Is this a correct perception?
Absolutely.
One of my favourite theologians Kim Fabricius said the church and politics was like a line that was parallel but never quite touched. Not the same. Still matters.
As you say @Gamma Gamaliel Australian politics is trending very similar to British. Heck, even similar to the rest of Europe with the rise of the right wing.
The collapse of the centre right has certainly helped the surge of the right.
But the collapse was on hate speech laws. Touchy stuff.
Still think Bridget McKenzie from the nationals is one to watch.
The new Victorian liberal candidate seems fairly solid from what I've seen on the assault of a transgender man in female prisons but she's too young.
What is it then?
As you probably know, trans people are at high risk of violence from others - but your sentence here doesn’t make sense with the Australian news cycle. Are you perhaps misgendering the perpetrator ? Please note that we consider the deliberate deadnaming and/or misgendering of transpeople to be a violation of our 1st commandment.
Doublethink, Admin
Is biological male acceptable?
There have been a couple of incidents recently in Australia where biological males serving prison sentences for terrible crimes have transitioned to being female or identify as such so have had their sentences reduced and have gone on to assault female prisoners.
I understand we need to protect all minority groups including transgender people and women so there is a clash of opinion on who should be protected first.
The woman that was assaulted by a transgender person (is that okay?) who was a biological male (is that okay?) received a government payout because of the issue.
It's a hot issue in Australia right now. Is that what you meant by not making sense with the Australian news cycle?
I mean ideally, we would have different prisons for different gender identifications.
But I suspect I'll probably get banned for talking about this at all.
But it is a tangent so I will cease and desist.
(ETA Hidden text discussion of hostly ruling and commentary inappropriate to Purgatory, DT, Admin.)
Economics and cost of living seems to be trumping climate change at the moment.
But if you think the current government is centre, where do you put the coalition?
@WhimsicalChristian this is not the place to ask questions about a Hostly ruling. FTR, "biological male" is not an acceptable term in this context. Please ask any more questions about the rules in the Styx.
Furthermore, as with all issues related to personal and sensitive matters, discussion about transgender people needs to happen in Epiphanies in an appropriate and respectful manner.
Hostly beret off
la vie en rouge, Purgatory host
(ETA to add a clarification, DT, Admin.)
We do not provide a platform for debating positions that arise from the assertion that they do not exist, or equate non-traditional gender identities or sexualities with perversion, or assert with total lack of evidence that these marginalised groups of people present an elevated risk of offending compared to the wider population.
The sensitivities around these issues are such that we have a dedicated forum, to host more nuanced discussions, that we aim to ensure makes space for the voices of those most affected, and those with lived experience.
I happen to be a cisgender woman, but we are aware that we do have shipmates who are not cisgender - and we also wish to be mindful of the impacts of posts on everyone using the forums.
Doublethink, Admin
Are you afraid of being cancelled if you talk? Are you essentially disinterested? Surely you must have some opinions on one nation polling above the coalition at the moment?
What do you make of China's recent threats to us over Taiwan and the Port of Darwin? What do you make of the defence force sell offs?
We could be going to war soon. We should be taking about stuff.
That they may not have done so far won't be out of fear of 'cancellation' though.
It takes a while to figure out how the Ship operates and it's sometimes best to sit tight and listen before diving in. I say that to myself.
As far as Australian politics goes, my observation is that there isn't much going on over there that is substantially different to what we are seeing over here, essentially a backlash against the liberal left and a lurch to the right in a populist kind of way.
Those on the left are saying the 'Overton Window' has shifted to the right. Those on the right are saying it's shifted to the left.
It all depends on where you stand.
The so-called “lurch to the right” in Oz is exaggerated. The dog-whistlers such as the unspeakable Pauline Hansen have obtained about 5% of the popular vote and like so many one-note wonders make no effective contribution to social or economic policy development.
The erstwhile Coalition has imploded under the weight of division and squabbling. The last Coalition PM was the most incompetent since Billy McMahon ( government thrown out after 23 years in December 1972. The nadir of his reign was the Robodebt scandal ( an illegitimate and wicked attempt to claw back legitimate social security benefits from a vulnerable group of people). The Coalition government was thrown out in May 2022 and although it gained some ground in the last Federal election the resulting infighting and fracture of the Coalition means that they will collectively remain in opposition for a long time.
Albanese has been largely effective but is weak. He has caved in to pressure from various vocal lobby groups and his latest gaffe was to invite the President of the State of Israel for a visit 2 months after the murder of 14 Jews and 1 Gentile at Bondi Beach.
The vast majority of Australians do not support Israel’s ongoing compaign of destruction in Gaza and are justifiably offended by this visit.
Are we really heading for war? I suspect not in the near future.
As for the proposed sell-off of Defence establishments: I say go for it. I worked for 14 years as a civilian contractor initially at Victoria Barracks in Sydney and came to the conclusion that it is an expensive white elephant which serves little purpose. The East coast submarine base was flogged off 30+ years ago without any comment and HMAS Penguin on the other side of the harbour is a hive of inactivity since the naval hospital closed down.
I don’t hear any talk of the major bases in the West or in Darwin coming under threat of closure.
Defence is infamous for wasting public money hand over fist. I finally quit (among other reasons) over the ineffective stupidity and cowardice of some of my uniformed masters and their civilian accomplices. I will say no more about that.
I’d like to see Penny Wong as PM. Unfortunately not a hope since she is female, lesbian and of Asian descent.
So that’s my 2 bob’s worth. Make of it what you will.
I met the 20/30 something sons and daughters of Italian and Greek migrants - in Adelaide and Melbourne - who each told me how badly their parents and grandparents were treated before launching into diatribes against Indian and Pakistani migrants in the next breath.
Yes, I did meet liberal and lefty Aussies and saw evidence of more liberal policies but anecdotally I got the impression that Western Australia was a minerals-rich reactionary state which believes its subsidising the rest of the continent and has elements which would prefer to secede; that Queensland is full of rednecks who are even further to the right than my relatives and that Sydney and Melbourne are regarded with great suspicion as hot-beds of 'anything goes' liberalism.
I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than that.
For the most part I was tight-lipped and polite, even though a very liberal couple crowed that a taxi-driver (a taxi-driver) in Portugal told them that they hated the British and thought Australians were wonderful. I've been to Portugal twice and only ever encountered warmth and hospitality. And no, I didn't take taxis ...
Other than Australians who were born there, they all seemed out to justify why they'd moved there in the first place, as if they felt the need to do so. As if I was even that bothered. If it wasn't the cold weather it was UK politics or the country going to the dogs, immigrants spoiling everything yadda yadda yadda. Whinge, whinge, moan, moan. No wonder they were called 'Whingeing Poms.'
I only spent a few days in Melbourne but I heard enough bollocks in Adelaide to organise the Biggest Bollocks Convention outside of a Reform Party conference.
It was like Reform-On-Sea. Reform on Sunburnt Steroids.
Melbourne was different but scattered as Australia is, I don't get the impression that the regional differences are as acute as the Australians claim. Soulless suburbs. Sun, sand and cute marsupials.
Sure, it was a fleeting visit - a month - and the 2 years we spent there as £10 Poms in the mid-60s is ancient history and I was too young to pick up anything socio-political beyond 'Louie The Fly' public health adverts and 'In came the dollars and in came the cents on the 14th of February 1966.'
Please don't misunderstand me, though. I liked both Adelaide and Melbourne, for different reasons, and what I saw of the coast, the wineries and the Adelaide Hills.
I even found that some Australian breweries realised that beer was supposed to taste of something.
My daughter's fiancé's memorable response when my uncle asked for his verdict on a stubby of 'pale ale', was, "It's cold."
That brewer wasn't one of them.
Again, don't get we wrong. We have soulless suburbs here too and beer that isn't always up to scratch.
My cousin used to be a police officer and her view of the indigenous population - despite all her 'awareness' training - accorded with most of what I heard - that somehow they were to blame and responsible for their own subjugation and oppression and that they should be grateful that the British got there first rather than the French, the Dutch or the Japanese who would all have treated them far worse than we did.
Yeah, right ...
We only poked one eye out. The Dutch, Germans, French or Japanese would have put out both eyes, trodden on their toes and burnt all their artefacts, because they'd never progressed beyond the 'Stone Age' and deserved what was coming upon them ...
You get the drift.
I wouldn't rule out a return visit and I'd hire a car next time and head out into the outback, taking due precautions of course. People tell me Sydney is 'sterile' but I'd like to see for myself. I thought Melbourne was a bit that way until I wandered about and found some bohemian bits.
I have a vague memory of crossing the Sydney Harbour Bridge as a small child and of a whopping big stingray in an aquarium there.
As far as politics go, everyone seemed to agree that Albanese is 'weak', even the few supporters of his I met.
They saw him as well-intentioned but somewhat ineffectual.
A bit like Starmer.
I'm not saying that Australia is a mirror-image of the UK but there are parallels.
More than 'a few'.
I didn't encounter any political position or attitude that I've not encountered here.
There are contextual differences of course but there'd be parallels and overlaps with any Western democracy, particularly those that have been shaped and influenced by a similar cultural heritage.
I'd expect the same in Canada and other Commonwealth countries to some extent.
There are differences, of course but plenty of parallels. Australia and Western Europe are in different hemispheres but not different planets.
I would also add that I encountered remarkable restraint on the part of some I'd been warned about who were even further to the right than my uncle. My aunt is far more moderate than he is.
I'd also add how friendly and helpful everyone was even in the most soulless of shopping malls.
The wine also cured me of Northern Hemispherical vino-snobbery.
There was much to admire and much to like.
Howver am waiting for a response from Whimsical Christian after (presumably) he threw down the “C’mon Aussie”gauntlet yesterday.
But the right in western liberal democracies has only recently gained traction, as we can see from so many countries in Europe going right.
Historically, that is saying something. What I find interesting is what it is saying. It's more than just an opinion from where you stand because there has been a significant shift.