Is religion more than a system of beliefs?
Came across this video that argues religion is more than a belief system, but rather a communal practice. The presenter uses the celebration of the ascension not because the followers believe it happened, but because the followers act as if it is true.
Something to think about.
Something to think about.
Comments
Religion is complex, and the way it is portrayed as mainly about "belief" is off-putting to quite a bit of interfaith sociological work. It is not surprising that we talk of interfaith rather than inter-religion or interbelief conversations.
Sorry ...
I was going to say it but knew you'd be along shortly.
Beat me to it.
The root of the word "religion" - "Religiō was often used for a sense of right, social obligation, and caution (similar to being bound by oath).", or later, Rule as in the Rule of St Benedict.
Interestingly perhaps, I took the train down to Lichfield today to see an impressive icon exhibition in the cathedral there.
They've also got a splendid table made from a giant oak that fell into the East Anglian peat 5,000 years ago.
I was struck by how much variation there was on familiar themes and how something of the artist's personality still comes through despite the very prescribed rules and protocols.
The iconographer was there painting and fielding enquiries. She explained to all who stopped to chat that they are intrinsically linked with prayer.
Yes, they are 'works of art' but can't be separated from their primary purpose as objects of veneration and vehicles for prayer.
In the same way any communal practice associated with any religion is going to express the particular beliefs and values of its adherents.
Lex orandi, lex credendi I think.
I'm funny on this. Totally in favour of infant baptism and an open as possible communion table, but "belonging" just doesn't cut it for me personally. I never feel more alone and out of place than when a preacher is talking about experiences I can't relate to "you know how sometimes God answers our prayers with a 'wait?" - erm, no, I just don't get answers at all - what happens, happens, or when everyone else seems to just believe it when I'm always "I really don't know if God even exists" - that's when I find myself asking why am I here? I don't want to be.
Perhaps it is otherwise amongst other people.
Not everyone and not always, but I think the structures, liturgies and thought-processes of religion draw people in and give comfort. Much like conspiracy theories.
Over the last year I've had a particular reminder of how my faith experience is different from many. As I've moved back into the Methodist Church I'm working through the process of accreditation as a local preacher, which includes a series of occasions when a service I lead is assessed. That assessment includes a self-reflection form covering preparation for the service, the service itself, and reflections following that to be discussed with tutor and mentor. Within that form is a question that I (usually) find myself unable to answer, "where was I particularly aware of the presence of God?". I'd not really thought about it before first encountering that question (and, needing to find an answer), but I never "feel" the presence of God - those who can go to a Cathedral or somewhere like Iona and feel that it's sacred space, those who can feel God in a Taize prayer session or praise band medley, etc ... well, that's something I don't feel (or, rather if I feel anything it feels manufactured and a result of what other people are doing to me rather than clearly God). My experience of God is (almost) always in retrospect, looking back over months or years and seeing how what I've learnt and how I've changed, and seeing the hand of God in that - so a word like "particular" and putting that question exclusively in the context of the actual service doesn't even make sense to my experience of recognising the presence of God. Chatting recently with another trainee preacher, and she said she also struggles with that question because her experience of the presence of God is usually during the preparation for the service rather than in the service itself.
I know that in meeting, we all have different, and sometimes (often) opposing and contradictory beliefs. We are not all consistent in our set of beliefs. But our "Religion" if you want, is our gathering together in silence.
And I think we are seeing more and more people practicing their religion while holding beliefs that deny the faith they claim to hold. But the go through the actions because it looks good and pious.
I think faith is a personal collection of beliefs. Religion - that is performative art, sometimes driven by aspects of your faith. Sometimes not.
But then I am a cynic.
Presumably some human behaviours we see will eventually be crystalised into a religion. Maybe it will develop from that bunch of people who believe in alien abduction, but it could equally be from that other group who share make-up tips on social media.
People with similar world views tend to be attracted to each other. When groups form, rules develop. It happens in all spheres of life. Religion is just another example.
I 'get' this, although it isn't something I encounter that much in my present church circles. We don't tend to have preachers talking about this, that or the other experience, rather short homilies that draw something out the Gospel passage for that particular day.
But previously ... yeah, in spades and then some.
As Shipmates will be aware, I spent a long time in charismatic evangelicalism and whilst I wou;dn't write-off 'experiences' per se, I tend to think that charismatics use highly inflated language to describe things other people would put in a more measured way.
So, charismatics might say, 'God told me to do X ...' whereas others might say, 'I thought I'd have a go at X ...' or 'I had an inkling to try X ...'
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I wouldn't have thought you'd be getting much 'over-egged' stuff where you currently are. URC isn't it?
I'm quite an 'affective' person in that the words of hymns, art, architecture, iconography and the natural world can move me deeply. Human beings are wired to respond to certain cues, but the extent to which we are 'affected' varies from person to person and depends upon a whole range of factors.
I don't get particularly exercised whether I or anyone else has some kind of special 'experience'. As I've noted before on these boards, the RC apologist Ronald Knox said that he'd never had a 'religious experience' in his life.
If we do have particular 'experiences' let's be grateful for them. If we don't then let's be grateful for whatever else we have instead.
I'm a sucker for old Welsh hymns in the minor key and I can get moved by oratory (whilst remaining on my guard against it) and hwyl.
But we are all different.
I presented some lyrical poetry to my poetry group last week which had moved and touched me greatly (not mine, someone else's) but the rest of the group couldn't see why I was so enthusiastic about it.
Which is fine.
I'm not sure I would say good/bad rules. I would probably say suitable for the group or not. Likewise the true beliefs might contain elements that are untrue and vice-versa. Or they might be poorly expressed rather than untrue.
Yes. But it's often the - erm - keener - types who find themselves preaching. I mean, who wants the ponderings along the lines of "I'm not really sure if any of this is true, but if it is, God's probably a bit like this..."
I mean, I'd love a sermon that started like that, but you don't tend to get it, do you?
Yes, similarly, I'm more moved by the arts, mostly music, never dance. Sometimes what some people might think is a bit banal. I could try to explain why I'll be covering The Winner Takes It All at the next Open Mic, or why I've never been able to perform some songs because I break up before I get to the end, but it's too individual.
Seldom anything religious or religion adjacent though. I sometimes think I was meant to be an atheist but something went a bit awry somewhere.
My middle school choir students are working on an arrangement of "Seasons of Love" from the musical RENT right now, the central question of which is: "How do you measure a year?" My internal answer is always, "According to the church calendar." because I really do continue to mark and enjoy the changing of the liturgical seasons. We're about to pass through another Ash Wednesday, and that will be meaningful to me.
To the OP, I'd say absolutely, but I'd also caution that one of the most off-putting things about Christianity is its tendency to judge belief, and then fracture accordingly. I don't know how long ago what one believed superseded how one lived, but my deconstructed understanding about Jesus is 99% doing the things he encouraged, and only 1% (maybe less) about what I believe about him.
I too have received precious few answers to prayers, and I too have seldom if ever felt the 'presence' of God (whatever that is) in the throes of liturgies. Not that I don't feel things in those moments, but they're much easier explained in ways other than the supernatural.
If, as we Orthodox declare, 'God is present everywhere and fills all things' then yes, the divine energies work 'through' the natural world and created things - such as the sacraments - whether we are consciously aware of them or have particular experiences or not.
We normally say 'filleth' or 'fillest' because we are annoying that way, but you get the drift.
'We had the experience but missed the meaning,' as Eliot put it.
'Or even a very good dinner.'
A priest I know, who used to post regularly here, uses the analogy of Terry Gilliam's animated foot that descends from the clouds to splat people in the early Monty Python series. Many of us see God's action that way - an external 'splat' that comes from above, whereas the work of God suffuses all things in a more 'lateral' and organic way if we can put it like that.
You mentioned precious few answers to prayers. Can you please expand on this a bit?
I don't think that's really necessary. It can be taken at face value.
This must be a happy thing for you, and I don't mean that flippantly. I just can't access anything like that at all.
Ananias and Sapphira would like a word. I mean, apart from the visible foot...