The only person claiming that a Russian Jew in Israel is not ethnically Russian is you.
I’m not sure what point that scores, as the only person claiming that a Russian Jew in Israel is ethnically Russian is you, so 1-to-1.
When Disraeli was abused in the British House of Commons because he was a Jew, he claimed it as his heritage even though he converted at 12 to Christianity. Only a fool would say Disraeli, Moses Montefiore, Ed Miliband and others are not ethnically British.
Perhaps the problem is that we’re using ethnicity to mean different things, without acknowledging that difference in usage. I thought I was being clear that I was using ethnicity in a sense where nationality, national culture, language, cultural traditions and the like are not relevant markers, but rather where the relevant marker is ancestry, particularly an ancestry that has been shaped by endogamy. That is why I’ve put some focus on things like DNA. If I was not adequately clear about that, that is on me.
And I’ve been using ethnicity in that specific sense not out of any motive of othering, but rather because I think it aligns with Jewish self-understanding of Jewishness. And that’s how this sidebar got started—by noting that Jewishness is about more than religion. It is about ethnicity in the sense of ancestry. And that’s because as I understand it, and as I think is reflected in things like the Law of Return, descent from Jewish ancestors is of central importance in understanding Jewishness from a Jewish perspective.
Let's see what an Israeli sociologist says about this.
Those mixed ethnics who chose immigration to Israel (often due to the lack of alternative destinations) had to readjust their self-concept in the highly charged national context of the Jewish state. Albeit endowed with full economic and political citizenship by the Law of Return, partial Jews felt like second-rate citizens in many contexts controlled by the Jewish Orthodoxy. While belonging to the titular Russian or Ukrainian nations in their Soviet past, in Israel, many half-Jews were recast as members of an ethnic minority.
Larissa Remennick (2018) "Choosing One or Being Both: The Identity Dilemmas of Russian-Jewish Mixed Ethnics Living in Russia and in Israel" East European Jewish Affairs
Volume 48 pages 118-138 https://doi.org/10.1080/13501674.2018.1475176
In this thread, when I posted, just you. I’m afraid I haven’t yet mastered foreseeing, recognizing and responding to authorities that haven’t been cited yet.
I notice that she refers to “belonging to the titular Russian or Ukrainian nations in their Soviet past” (my emphasis) and to “many half-Jews,” which leads me to wonder if perhaps she is talking about something different from what I have said I am talking about.
While not an Israeli sociologist, I’ll cite the Wikipedia article “Who is a Jew?” as reflecting the direction from which I’m approaching this.
And with that, I’m done. I really don’t care if I persuade you of the perspective I’m coming from here. And it is, as you said, tiresome, as my sense is that you’re still attacking what you think I’m saying rather than what I am actually saying, or trying to say. So, if you want to weigh in again, you’ll get the last word.
Guys, we're definitely getting well past the more heat than light stage. You've both recognized that this is frustrating. I might suggest that you both drop it before it gets hotter.
I don't know if this is the right place to post this - it looks like a related thing but bear with if I'm wrong.
I have a dear dear friend who I have known all my life and that friend has recently discovered and got in touch with their Jewish roots. So far so lovely. What concerns me is that getting in touch with their Jewish roots seems to have been fostered by online communities of quite hard line right wing people. I don't want my friend to go down a rabbit hole that could end up in some nasty places, but equally I want to support them for them to be able to celebrate their ethnicity (they're not adopting the Jewish faith yet so far as I know). So is there anything from this discussion I can take in terms of how to affirm and support and rejoice in this friend's new identity but hope to tack away from tendencies to the sort of politics espoused by Mr Netanyahu and some of Mr Trump's acolytes?
I think the best gift you can offer your friend is to separate their rediscovered identity from the political pipelines that sometimes latch onto it. Jewishness — like any deep-rooted identity — is bigger than the loudest voices claiming to represent it. You can affirm their heritage, celebrate the beauty of Jewish culture, history, and community, and gently widen the lens beyond the online spaces they’ve stumbled into.
If their current influences lean toward hard‑right nationalism, you don’t have to confront that head‑on. Instead, you can introduce them to Jewish voices across the spectrum — cultural, religious, progressive, secular, scholarly — so they see that their identity doesn’t require signing up for anyone’s political project. Support the person, broaden the sources, and let them find a healthier grounding.
Four online Jewish emags I can suggest are:
Severance Magazine — for people discovering Jewish ancestry or “late‑in‑life Jewish identity.”
Depends a lot where friend is online. There is lots of diversity in Jewish views. I didn't set out to follow anyone from any particular group on Bluesky but ended up with a fair few Jewish posters I follow who have similar views and interests to me - some of the autistic folk I followed for their ND content turned out to be Jewish and very anti- Netanyahu etc.
I wonder though if it also works the other way round? If friend is a bit conservative on some issues and/or on the sites like Twitter/X or Facebook that can marinade people in extremist right content then they may be finding Jewish posters of the far right because they're either conservative themselves - so tending to be on conservative leaning sites or they may be on sites which ratchet and radicalise towards the right and they may not be aware of those processes or may not know what the red flags and dog whistles are.
These sites often end up driving off left leaning Jewish folk because they are disproportionately targeted by antisemitism - that's how various of the folk I follow say they came to Bluesky. So if friend is on a site that liberal Jewish posters have tended to flee for good reason, they will be finding disproportionately right-wing Jewish contacts.
I think all you can do is talk about it. Make sure they know about stuff that the algorithms will bury on places like YouTube/ Facebook/X about the extent to which 'Philosemitism' is really antisemitism and the collaboration of people like Netanyahu/ Trump with the far right movements, overlooking their antisemitism. Send them content by Jewish writers of different views, or stuff by anti far-right researchers if they're open to it. I see Gramps49 has some suggestions.
But it's the same as anything - I have older friends who went down the trans- persecuting rabbit hole.
Myself and spouse resolutely opposed this in real life with them at various dinner tables and had long email conversations with those who'd posted anti-trans content who weren't near enough or seen often enough to talk with face to face.
The results were we kept three as friends - we keep resolutely opposing that stuff whenever we can - and they have piped down a lot on it because they know we will speak up. One really peddled back on his views because he saw how far right the people he had previously admired were and was horrified.
We lost one husband and wife friendship - interestingly they were the more long range friends who couldn't be easily got round a table. We discussed the issue with them by email with my much more polite and even-tempered spouse reading over everything to make sure it was polite and that we were making our case in a fair and civil way so they couldn't just dismiss it with tone policing. It got us nowhere. They just stopped replying when we had answers for all their points and evidence to back it up - much like you see sometimes on the Ship where far right posters just ignore posts that go to a lot of trouble to carefully refute what they say.
I can only suggest surfacing stuff to them - especially from Jewish own voice sources that give different perspectives and clueing them up on the far right dimension and how it masks itself. I can't guarantee that any of that will work but there's a better chance with people we see in real life and talk to face to face in my opinion.
But people who go down these paths may have underlying conservative attitudes already which start them on that road and make what the internet strangers say sound appealing in the first place, and that I think is what can make it hard even for real life friends to overcome. The radicalisers push at an already slightly ajar door and gradually get it open...
Thank you both for your kind and thoughtful responses. You encourage me to support and celebrate the friend and do what I can to encourage a wider range of perspectives.
What has worked for me is to highlight that I know a lot of Jewish people who are not Zionist and are in fact anti-Zionist. They hate the Israeli project a lot more than I do, because it has tarnished their religion, for reasons that I find pretty easy to understand empathically. I'd be similarly disgusted if I saw a "Christian" country doing the same thing, even if they were escaping a history of persecution and trying to pursue "safety."
This, to me, is not tokenizing because I'm painfully aware that my Jewish friends do not represent the majority opinion in their own religion, just as I couldn't say that I represented the majority opinion in Christianity being socially liberal back in the day, or even now. But they exist and for that reason it's a little wrong to presume that Zionism represents Judaism entirely.
Also, it's not my job to police the boundaries of someone else's religion, but as far as I can discern it these are all devout believers, practitioners, and descendants of Jewish families. I'm sure they'd be grossly offended to be told they weren't Jewish for the sake of one political opinion.
It's possible to belong to a religion and not agree with the majority of that religion's adherents. Just because many Jewish people feel a powerful need to attach themselves to the modern state of Israel does not mean it's necessarily the only Jewish position. I think the conversation would be healthier if we could free Jewish people from having to carry the weight of that nation's behavior on their backs, whatever they think of it.
At the same time, as an American, I do feel a share of responsibility because it has been my country defending Israel's behavior, even as I do not condone it. That's on me, not on anyone who is Jewish. I think it's important for us, as Christians or Jews or whatever, to stay in our lane and own our own moral responsibility without sloughing it off on someone else.
And to state what I hope is obvious, nobody deserves to be targeted by antisemitism. I think for many reasons, we need to keep the logical lines of our conversations very clear. Honestly, even if someone supports Zionism, I do not see any profit in hatred. I've tried to have those conversations from time to time. It is hard, but it's possible. The right balance of humility with integrity can be hard to find.
Thank you again for your helpful responses to my question. I have another if I may - my recently-discovered-Jewish friend has been talking to me about the definition of Zionism. They maintain that being a Zionist means believing that "Israel is entitled to exist" whereas I get the impression the term is often used in a sense more like "agreement with Mr Netanyahu's political agenda". Have others noticed the word Zionism being used in such a wide range of ways and how do you interpret it yourself? I personally am avoiding using it because I'm now very worried by that wide range of meaning. Hence the question.
Even "Israel is entitled to exist" has multiple meanings. As an ethnostate occupying land the previous residents didn't want to give up? It's tied up with ideas about self-determination - what happens when two groups' self-determined ideals are incompatible?
If we trace modern Zionism back to Herzl, it has had many varying degrees of political ideology from the Left to the Right and through time. The term is almost meaningless these days when divorced from the thoughts of an individual using the term.
Even "Israel is entitled to exist" has multiple meanings. As an ethnostate occupying land the previous residents didn't want to give up? It's tied up with ideas about self-determination - what happens when two groups' self-determined ideals are incompatible?
I think Christopher Hitchens summed it up best on a call-in show many years ago. From memory...
Yes, Israel has a right to exist, but they should also define where their borders begin and end.
The point being, I assume, that if Israel defines its borders as including the occupied territories, they should give the Palestinians living in those territories political equality. And if they define their borders as not including the occupied territories, then they should withdraw from the occupied territories.
Thank you again for your helpful responses to my question. I have another if I may - my recently-discovered-Jewish friend has been talking to me about the definition of Zionism. They maintain that being a Zionist means believing that "Israel is entitled to exist" whereas I get the impression the term is often used in a sense more like "agreement with Mr Netanyahu's political agenda". Have others noticed the word Zionism being used in such a wide range of ways and how do you interpret it yourself? I personally am avoiding using it because I'm now very worried by that wide range of meaning. Hence the question.
Zionism is Jewish nationalism; the idea that there should be a state run by and for Jews. In principle this is an exercise in self-determination, same as Scottish or Irish nationalism. The problem comes that there was, prior to 1948, no territory that was majority Jewish and therefore any practical application of Zionism relies on overwhelming the indigenous population by immigration or removing it via expulsion or genocide. This was hypothesised in various imperial possessions such as Madagascar but only realised in Palestine. For all practical purposes Zionism is colonialism.
Thank you both for your kind and thoughtful responses. You encourage me to support and celebrate the friend and do what I can to encourage a wider range of perspectives.
I follow Jewish Voice for Peace from time to time.
You mention that you’re not sure your friend will convert to (non-Christian) Judaism. Do they believe in any other religion at the present time?
Thank you both for your kind and thoughtful responses. You encourage me to support and celebrate the friend and do what I can to encourage a wider range of perspectives.
I follow Jewish Voice for Peace from time to time.
You mention that you’re not sure your friend will convert to (non-Christian) Judaism. Do they believe in any other religion at the present time?
Thank you all for your replies - these are deep waters.
In reply to your question @ChastMastr , my friend doesn't currently have faith, is culturally Christian trending to assertively atheist depending on mood. They are a person who has a slight tendency to adopt the views of the group in which they find themself at different stages of life.
Thank you both for your kind and thoughtful responses. You encourage me to support and celebrate the friend and do what I can to encourage a wider range of perspectives.
I follow Jewish Voice for Peace from time to time.
You mention that you’re not sure your friend will convert to (non-Christian) Judaism. Do they believe in any other religion at the present time?
Thank you all for your replies - these are deep waters.
In reply to your question @ChastMastr , my friend doesn't currently have faith, is culturally Christian trending to assertively atheist depending on mood. They are a person who has a slight tendency to adopt the views of the group in which they find themself at different stages of life.
They might find Joy Davidman’s Smoke on the Mountain helpful, then.
Thank you both for your kind and thoughtful responses. You encourage me to support and celebrate the friend and do what I can to encourage a wider range of perspectives.
I follow Jewish Voice for Peace from time to time.
You mention that you’re not sure your friend will convert to (non-Christian) Judaism. Do they believe in any other religion at the present time?
Thank you all for your replies - these are deep waters.
In reply to your question @ChastMastr , my friend doesn't currently have faith, is culturally Christian trending to assertively atheist depending on mood. They are a person who has a slight tendency to adopt the views of the group in which they find themself at different stages of life.
They might find Joy Davidman’s Smoke on the Mountain helpful, then.
Zionism is Jewish nationalism; the idea that there should be a state run by and for Jews. In principle this is an exercise in self-determination, same as Scottish or Irish nationalism. The problem comes that there was, prior to 1948, no territory that was majority Jewish and therefore any practical application of Zionism relies on overwhelming the indigenous population by immigration or removing it via expulsion or genocide. This was hypothesised in various imperial possessions such as Madagascar but only realised in Palestine. For all practical purposes Zionism is colonialism.
It might resemble colonialism in the case of Practical Zionism, but Cultural Zionism (for example) seems rather more nuanced. But, in any event, I think this concept of colonialism relies on a distinction between "foreign power(s)" and "indigenous people". Whether Jewish people are indigenous to that region depends on one's perspective. As the Wikipedia page on Indigenous peoples points out:
There is no generally accepted definition of Indigenous peoples, although in the 21st century the focus has been on self-identification, cultural difference from other groups in a state, a special relationship with their traditional territory, and an experience of subjugation and discrimination under a dominant cultural model.
Which, if you try to apply these as principles, suggest that Jews ceased being indigenous to Eretz Yisrael at some point between the settler migrations of the 1880's / 1890's, and the creation of the state of Israel in 1948.
The following takes on the definition of indigeneity illustrate to me (yet again) the problem with trying to find a single perspective from which to make sense of the current situation.
In 2012, Indigenous studies scholars Eve Tuck and K. Wayne Yang proposed a criterion based on accounts of origin: "Indigenous peoples are those who have creation stories, not colonization stories, about how we/they came to be in a particular place – indeed how we/they came to be a place. Our/their relationships to land comprise our/their epistemologies, ontologies, and cosmologies". Indigenous peoples such as the Maasai and the Māori have oral traditional histories involving migration to their current location from somewhere else.
Other scholars, such as Dominic O'Sullivan and Marjo Lindroth, have analysed and defined Indigenous peoples as those in a specific power-relationship with the state, called "indigeneity", that has come about due to the process of settler-colonialism.
Whether Jewish people are indigenous to that region depends on one's perspective.
You can't be indigenous to somewhere your grandparents emmigrated to. There is an indigenous Palestinian Jewish population, but they're a tiny minority of Israeli Jews. I can have all the affinity for Normandy I like but it doesn't change the fact that any ancestors I had from there left almost a thousand years ago, and if I went to live there I certainly wouldn't be indigenous.
Whether Jewish people are indigenous to that region depends on one's perspective.
You can't be indigenous to somewhere your grandparents emmigrated to. There is an indigenous Palestinian Jewish population, but they're a tiny minority of Israeli Jews.
So what's your working definition of "indigenous"? How many generations does it take for a group of people to become indigenous to a particular geographical area, or before they're no longer indigenous when they leave? Does it make any difference if they're displaced by war, famine, slavery or persecution? How many generations will it take before the 6 million people in the Palestinian diaspora are no longer indigenous to Palestine?
I think a working definition of ' indigenous' or defining 'colonialism'are big questions of their own and would need to be a separate thread with a lot of own voice content - what do the people most affected say? How do they define it?
So if posters want to take that further could a new thread be started please?
Comments
I’m not sure what point that scores, as the only person claiming that a Russian Jew in Israel is ethnically Russian is you, so 1-to-1.
Perhaps the problem is that we’re using ethnicity to mean different things, without acknowledging that difference in usage. I thought I was being clear that I was using ethnicity in a sense where nationality, national culture, language, cultural traditions and the like are not relevant markers, but rather where the relevant marker is ancestry, particularly an ancestry that has been shaped by endogamy. That is why I’ve put some focus on things like DNA. If I was not adequately clear about that, that is on me.
And I’ve been using ethnicity in that specific sense not out of any motive of othering, but rather because I think it aligns with Jewish self-understanding of Jewishness. And that’s how this sidebar got started—by noting that Jewishness is about more than religion. It is about ethnicity in the sense of ancestry. And that’s because as I understand it, and as I think is reflected in things like the Law of Return, descent from Jewish ancestors is of central importance in understanding Jewishness from a Jewish perspective.
Larissa Remennick (2018) "Choosing One or Being Both: The Identity Dilemmas of Russian-Jewish Mixed Ethnics Living in Russia and in Israel" East European Jewish Affairs
Volume 48 pages 118-138 https://doi.org/10.1080/13501674.2018.1475176
So no. Not just me.
I notice that she refers to “belonging to the titular Russian or Ukrainian nations in their Soviet past” (my emphasis) and to “many half-Jews,” which leads me to wonder if perhaps she is talking about something different from what I have said I am talking about.
While not an Israeli sociologist, I’ll cite the Wikipedia article “Who is a Jew?” as reflecting the direction from which I’m approaching this.
And with that, I’m done. I really don’t care if I persuade you of the perspective I’m coming from here. And it is, as you said, tiresome, as my sense is that you’re still attacking what you think I’m saying rather than what I am actually saying, or trying to say. So, if you want to weigh in again, you’ll get the last word.
Gwai
Epiphanies Host
It strikes me that liberal values are a much more recent innovation than Christianity, while antisemitism goes back even further.
I have a dear dear friend who I have known all my life and that friend has recently discovered and got in touch with their Jewish roots. So far so lovely. What concerns me is that getting in touch with their Jewish roots seems to have been fostered by online communities of quite hard line right wing people. I don't want my friend to go down a rabbit hole that could end up in some nasty places, but equally I want to support them for them to be able to celebrate their ethnicity (they're not adopting the Jewish faith yet so far as I know). So is there anything from this discussion I can take in terms of how to affirm and support and rejoice in this friend's new identity but hope to tack away from tendencies to the sort of politics espoused by Mr Netanyahu and some of Mr Trump's acolytes?
If their current influences lean toward hard‑right nationalism, you don’t have to confront that head‑on. Instead, you can introduce them to Jewish voices across the spectrum — cultural, religious, progressive, secular, scholarly — so they see that their identity doesn’t require signing up for anyone’s political project. Support the person, broaden the sources, and let them find a healthier grounding.
Four online Jewish emags I can suggest are:
Severance Magazine — for people discovering Jewish ancestry or “late‑in‑life Jewish identity.”
Tablet Magazine — broad range: culture, history, essays, humor.
My Jewish Learning — approachable, non‑denominational, great for beginners.
The Jewish Women's Archive — history, stories, and voices often overlooked.
There are many others. I particularly like My Jewish Learning when it comes to biblical interpretations. Even approaches New Testament stories.
I wonder though if it also works the other way round? If friend is a bit conservative on some issues and/or on the sites like Twitter/X or Facebook that can marinade people in extremist right content then they may be finding Jewish posters of the far right because they're either conservative themselves - so tending to be on conservative leaning sites or they may be on sites which ratchet and radicalise towards the right and they may not be aware of those processes or may not know what the red flags and dog whistles are.
These sites often end up driving off left leaning Jewish folk because they are disproportionately targeted by antisemitism - that's how various of the folk I follow say they came to Bluesky. So if friend is on a site that liberal Jewish posters have tended to flee for good reason, they will be finding disproportionately right-wing Jewish contacts.
I think all you can do is talk about it. Make sure they know about stuff that the algorithms will bury on places like YouTube/ Facebook/X about the extent to which 'Philosemitism' is really antisemitism and the collaboration of people like Netanyahu/ Trump with the far right movements, overlooking their antisemitism. Send them content by Jewish writers of different views, or stuff by anti far-right researchers if they're open to it. I see Gramps49 has some suggestions.
But it's the same as anything - I have older friends who went down the trans- persecuting rabbit hole.
Myself and spouse resolutely opposed this in real life with them at various dinner tables and had long email conversations with those who'd posted anti-trans content who weren't near enough or seen often enough to talk with face to face.
The results were we kept three as friends - we keep resolutely opposing that stuff whenever we can - and they have piped down a lot on it because they know we will speak up. One really peddled back on his views because he saw how far right the people he had previously admired were and was horrified.
We lost one husband and wife friendship - interestingly they were the more long range friends who couldn't be easily got round a table. We discussed the issue with them by email with my much more polite and even-tempered spouse reading over everything to make sure it was polite and that we were making our case in a fair and civil way so they couldn't just dismiss it with tone policing. It got us nowhere. They just stopped replying when we had answers for all their points and evidence to back it up - much like you see sometimes on the Ship where far right posters just ignore posts that go to a lot of trouble to carefully refute what they say.
I can only suggest surfacing stuff to them - especially from Jewish own voice sources that give different perspectives and clueing them up on the far right dimension and how it masks itself. I can't guarantee that any of that will work but there's a better chance with people we see in real life and talk to face to face in my opinion.
But people who go down these paths may have underlying conservative attitudes already which start them on that road and make what the internet strangers say sound appealing in the first place, and that I think is what can make it hard even for real life friends to overcome. The radicalisers push at an already slightly ajar door and gradually get it open...
This, to me, is not tokenizing because I'm painfully aware that my Jewish friends do not represent the majority opinion in their own religion, just as I couldn't say that I represented the majority opinion in Christianity being socially liberal back in the day, or even now. But they exist and for that reason it's a little wrong to presume that Zionism represents Judaism entirely.
Also, it's not my job to police the boundaries of someone else's religion, but as far as I can discern it these are all devout believers, practitioners, and descendants of Jewish families. I'm sure they'd be grossly offended to be told they weren't Jewish for the sake of one political opinion.
It's possible to belong to a religion and not agree with the majority of that religion's adherents. Just because many Jewish people feel a powerful need to attach themselves to the modern state of Israel does not mean it's necessarily the only Jewish position. I think the conversation would be healthier if we could free Jewish people from having to carry the weight of that nation's behavior on their backs, whatever they think of it.
At the same time, as an American, I do feel a share of responsibility because it has been my country defending Israel's behavior, even as I do not condone it. That's on me, not on anyone who is Jewish. I think it's important for us, as Christians or Jews or whatever, to stay in our lane and own our own moral responsibility without sloughing it off on someone else.
And to state what I hope is obvious, nobody deserves to be targeted by antisemitism. I think for many reasons, we need to keep the logical lines of our conversations very clear. Honestly, even if someone supports Zionism, I do not see any profit in hatred. I've tried to have those conversations from time to time. It is hard, but it's possible. The right balance of humility with integrity can be hard to find.
I think Christopher Hitchens summed it up best on a call-in show many years ago. From memory...
The point being, I assume, that if Israel defines its borders as including the occupied territories, they should give the Palestinians living in those territories political equality. And if they define their borders as not including the occupied territories, then they should withdraw from the occupied territories.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/apr/07/molly-crabapple-new-book-jewish-socialism
It shows how there could be very different perspectives.
Zionism is Jewish nationalism; the idea that there should be a state run by and for Jews. In principle this is an exercise in self-determination, same as Scottish or Irish nationalism. The problem comes that there was, prior to 1948, no territory that was majority Jewish and therefore any practical application of Zionism relies on overwhelming the indigenous population by immigration or removing it via expulsion or genocide. This was hypothesised in various imperial possessions such as Madagascar but only realised in Palestine. For all practical purposes Zionism is colonialism.
I follow Jewish Voice for Peace from time to time.
You mention that you’re not sure your friend will convert to (non-Christian) Judaism. Do they believe in any other religion at the present time?
Thank you all for your replies - these are deep waters.
In reply to your question @ChastMastr , my friend doesn't currently have faith, is culturally Christian trending to assertively atheist depending on mood. They are a person who has a slight tendency to adopt the views of the group in which they find themself at different stages of life.
They might find Joy Davidman’s Smoke on the Mountain helpful, then.
Buying it now! (Will read myself first.)
The following takes on the definition of indigeneity illustrate to me (yet again) the problem with trying to find a single perspective from which to make sense of the current situation.
You can't be indigenous to somewhere your grandparents emmigrated to. There is an indigenous Palestinian Jewish population, but they're a tiny minority of Israeli Jews. I can have all the affinity for Normandy I like but it doesn't change the fact that any ancestors I had from there left almost a thousand years ago, and if I went to live there I certainly wouldn't be indigenous.
So if posters want to take that further could a new thread be started please?
Thanks!
Louise
Epiphanies host