Pete Hegseth Revisited

If you cannot tell, I have Pete Hegseth Derangement Syndrome. He really drives me up the wall.

There are reports Pete Hegseth is reducing the number of recognized faith groups in the military from over 200 to just 31. In addition, he is ordering military chaplains to remove their officer rank from their uniforms

https://www.foxnews.com/media/pete-hegseth-slashes-military-faith-codes-from-over-200-31-pentagon-chaplain-corps-overhaul?msockid=3418129a60836057370805b26

This has prompted me to write a letter to the editor of my local paper with a copy to my bishop and congress people. I would hope other Americans will contact their congress people about this as well as religious leaders and send letters to the editor. My letter is below

The recent announcement that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth will reduce the military’s faith group codes from more than 200 to just 31, and require chaplains to remove their visible rank insignia, deserves far more scrutiny than it has received.

Streamlining administrative categories may sound harmless, but collapsing hundreds of distinct religious identities into a few dozen risks erasing the diversity of belief that our service members actually hold. Smaller faith traditions—already under‑represented—stand to lose visibility and access. In a pluralistic military, accuracy is not a luxury; it is a constitutional safeguard.

Even more troubling is the directive that chaplains remove their rank from their uniforms. No other profession in the military—medical officers, JAG officers, cyber officers, logisticians—is being asked to hide its rank. Rank is not a decoration. It communicates authority, responsibility, and accountability. Chaplains are commissioned officers for a reason: they advise commanders, advocate for religious accommodation, and operate within the chain of command. Removing visible rank undermines that role and creates confusion in precisely the environments where clarity saves lives.

Historically, the military tried rank‑less chaplains before 1914. It abandoned the experiment because it diminished chaplains’ effectiveness and created unnecessary ambiguity. We should learn from that history, not repeat it.

Our service members deserve a chaplain corps that is respected, empowered, and able to serve all faiths without political interference. These changes risk weakening an institution that has long protected both religious freedom and military professionalism. They should be reconsidered with full transparency and broad consultation.


(Feel free to add anything RE Pete Hegseth)

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Comments

  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Looks like he thought the chaplaincy was too “woke”.
  • Isn't he now officially Secretary of War, rather than Defence? Or is that appellation an unofficial title, bestowed on him by Trump?

    The impression we get of him over here in the UK is that he's as batshit crazy as his master.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Isn't he now officially Secretary of War, rather than Defence? Or is that appellation an unofficial title, bestowed on him by Trump?

    The latter, as I understand it. Congress would be needed to officially rename the DoD and it's Secretary.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    Interestingly, AIUI British Royal Navy chaplains wear no insignia of rank and by convention are regarded as equal in rank to whomever they are speaking to. (Not a practice followed by the army or the air force.)
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    BroJames wrote: »
    Interestingly, AIUI British Royal Navy chaplains wear no insignia of rank and by convention are regarded as equal in rank to whomever they are speaking to. (Not a practice followed by the army or the air force.)

    Good point, @BroJames. It is the same in Canada. Probably elsewhere in the commonwealth. But that has a long history. On the other hand, as I point out. The American Chaplains have shown military rank since at least 1914. We do not have the same British tradition. I just know as a Captain Chaplain in the AF, I did not have much pull with Colonels and Above. Majors were okay but any higher up the flagpole, there would not be much traction.

    What I am most concerned about is first he whittles the 200 faith groups down to 31, then he whittles it down to 11, then he whittles it down to 6 and eventually to his particular brand. He already says 80% of the chaplains come from 6 groups. My guess is Roman Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Reformed, Lutheran and Jew. But there are many other faith groups. I was in when the military was discussing adding more than 200. At the time the Supreme Court had a case before them by Wiccans and Atheist Groups to either include them or drop the who Chaplain Corp all together. Fortunately, the court had refused to hear the case. But it did cause the Pentagon to look at the question.
  • Isn't he now officially Secretary of War, rather than Defence? Or is that appellation an unofficial title, bestowed on him by Trump?

    The latter, as I understand it. Congress would be needed to officially rename the DoD and it's Secretary.

    The Dept of War website certainly has an official appearance, though that may not be evidence that the designation has been approved: https://www.war.gov/
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited March 28
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    He already says 80% of the chaplains come from 6 groups.
    What I’ve seen is that he’s said is that 82% of service members identify as religious, and “a significant majority” of that 82% of service members use only six of the faith group codes.

    My guess is Roman Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Reformed, Lutheran and Jew.
    Without knowing anything about how the current codes break things down, I’d be very surprised if one of the six most common wasn’t some form of non-denominational Evangelical.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Okay. I stand corrected about the where the chaplains are coming from.

    It was my experience when I was a chaplain, these were the groups that were heavily represented in the Chaplain Corp. Often, when the military divvies up the number of chaplains that would be needed in any FY it was based on the number of faith groups that was represented in the military branch. Lutherans, though, did get a slightly higher portion because we had consistently filled our quotas and then some. Jews were represented because of it being a major faith group. Muslims were just being added to the mix when I separated from the service.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Friday, there was a report that Pete Hegseth is holding up the promotion of two black male and two female officers to the rank of General.

    Under normal procedures, any promotion above the rank of captain is made by congress based on recommendation of the promotion board of the service involved. As I understand it the Secretary of War Defense is not even in the loop.

    The article I listed above says Pete Hegseth's chief of staff has reportedly said Trump will not stand next to a Black Officer. (Other reports say that is a false accusation).
  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    The Financial Times has just reported that
    A broker for Pete Hegseth, the US defence secretary, attempted to make a big investment in major defence companies in the weeks leading up to the US-Israeli attack on Iran, according to three people familiar with the matter.”
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited March 30
    Why does not that surprise me? I imagine other Trump people made similar investments--just based on similar past reports.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    A few days ago Kid Rock was visited by two army attack helicopters in flight, One hovered several seconds just off Kid Rock's pool. Kid took a video of the incident. There are several problems with the fly over. Did the pilots violate FAA rules? What would have happened if the machines malfunctioned? Were Army regulations broken.

    The Army commander rightly suspended the crews pending further investigations. There could have been certain disciplinary actions taken all the way from a letter of reprimand to an Article 15 action, even a court martial (not likely.)

    Now under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), certain steps would have had to been taken for the good of the order.

    But, good ol' Pete. He has to step in and countermand the procedure. Legally, the secretary of war should not step in until the end of the process when everything is under review. Countermanding the order so early in the process knocks the authority of the commander out from under him/her. With the crews getting away scot-free, what's to prevent them from doing a similar stunt at another celebrity's house.

    In short, it undercuts the chain of command, politicizes military discipline and risks encouraging unsafe behavior.

    It can cost $11,000 an hour to fly one of those machines. Your tax dollars at work!
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I cannot vouch for the truth of this. I was not there. This is hearsay. But I heard a report a few days ago that at a Christian prayer occasion Hegseth prayed that God would pour out his wrath and "break the teeth of the ungodly."

    If Hegseth believes in the power of prayer and that God answers prayer, is that not rather a dangerous thing to pray? It presupposes that God's view as to who is godly and who is ungodly and with whom God might be angry is the same as Hegseth' s.

    Should a person not be more cautious than to pray in those terms lest it backfire?

  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    The Greeks had their oracles and knew well enough to understand the meaning of “Delphic”.
  • Enoch wrote: »
    I cannot vouch for the truth of this. I was not there. This is hearsay. But I heard a report a few days ago that at a Christian prayer occasion Hegseth prayed that God would pour out his wrath and "break the teeth of the ungodly."

    If Hegseth believes in the power of prayer and that God answers prayer, is that not rather a dangerous thing to pray? It presupposes that God's view as to who is godly and who is ungodly and with whom God might be angry is the same as Hegseth' s.

    Should a person not be more cautious than to pray in those terms lest it backfire?

    The only person who would pray this way IMHO outs either one utterly convinced he is righteous and that God agrees with his attitude (!) or one convinced that there is no God who listens, cares and acts.
  • Enoch wrote: »
    I cannot vouch for the truth of this. I was not there. This is hearsay. But I heard a report a few days ago that at a Christian prayer occasion Hegseth prayed that God would pour out his wrath and "break the teeth of the ungodly."

    If Hegseth believes in the power of prayer and that God answers prayer, is that not rather a dangerous thing to pray? It presupposes that God's view as to who is godly and who is ungodly and with whom God might be angry is the same as Hegseth' s.

    Should a person not be more cautious than to pray in those terms lest it backfire?

    The only person who would pray this way IMHO outs either one utterly convinced he is righteous and that God agrees with his attitude (!) or one convinced that there is no God who listens, cares and acts.

    I don't think God has ever been more than a theatrical prop for trump and his dependents.

    It was quite wonderful to hear Hegseth boasting that they would bomb Iran back to the Stone Age while his boss cuts off a good chunk of his country's oil supplies, and engages in warfare against renewable energy, clean air and water, and anything that might threaten his own country's oil producers.
  • Wasn't it General Westmoreland - aka 'Waste-more-land' who said that of Cambodia during the Vietnam War?

    'Bomb Cambodia Back To The Stone Age'.

    Yeah, and create the conditions for Pol Pot to take power.

    Both Trump and Hegseth's rhetoric is pretty alarming and calculated of course to appeal to their country's rabid right-wing elements.

    I imagine they think it will scare Iran into compliance and convince their allies to kow-tow to their every whim.

    We shouldn't be surprised given the tone of this current administrations peace-time pronouncements that their war-time rhetoric is going to go way over the top. As indeed it has in Putin's Russia.

    You can't have a sensible conversation with these people.
  • I'm often mindful of how angry I get when Trump and Hegseth come out with shite like this - bullshit statements, meme-fied web / broadcast content - and if I think about it, it alarms me that a sober man in a tie with a carefully-worded statement might be able to convince me more easily that blowing up someone else's country was a regrettable necessity. I am not a pacifist, so I am open to that possibility. But I am alarmed that some of my objection to what is currently going on appears to be aesthetic, and it is the 'adding insult to injury' bit which really gets me going.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I don't think God has ever been more than a theatrical prop for trump and his dependents.

    It was quite wonderful to hear Hegseth boasting that they would bomb Iran back to the Stone Age while his boss cuts off a good chunk of his country's oil supplies, and engages in warfare against renewable energy, clean air and water, and anything that might threaten his own country's oil producers.
    No. Sorry. I don't think that's 'quite wonderful' even as giving one something to criticise and condemn. It is completely and unequivocally deplorable.

    That is particularly when Hegseth's boss was telling Iranian protesters only a few weeks ago that he was coming to their aid, and has repeated similar sentiments on other occasions recently, including this very week. Does it not occur to these monstrosities that bombing an entire country back to the Stone Age includes plastering with the same destruction those they claim to be benefiting?

    There is neither side in this particular war for which I feel any sympathy whatsoever. The people I do feel sympathy for are the unfortunate victims, the downtrodden and oppressed inhabitants of Iran who are suffering both at the hands of their own government in peacetime and now at the US bombing. Bearing in mind what has happened in the recent histories of Iraq and Libya, I see next to no prospect whatever of any outcome from the present war that will be beneficial for its actual victims.

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    I assumed that @Stercus Tauri’s use of “quite wonderful” was meant either sarcastically or in the sense of “a thing to be marveled at,” presumably for its moral vapidness.

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I assumed that @Stercus Tauri’s use of “quite wonderful” was meant either sarcastically or in the sense of “a thing to be marveled at,” presumably for its moral vapidness.

    Yes - sorry. It never occurred to me that it might be read otherwise. I seem to have a problem with misplaced humour.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Mr Hegseth, how many generals did your fire today? Two? Was it more than two? One for calling the war insane? You don't fight a war by canning your generals

    https://www.axios.com/2026/04/03/hegseth-george-hodne-army-fired-iran

    What's this I hear, you sponsored a Good Friday service, but did not invite Roman Catholics?

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/pentagon-host-good-friday-just-170234609.html

    And now you are allowing open carry of personal guns on bases? What can go wrong?

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/headlines/2026/04/02/new-order-lets-troops-carry-personal-guns-base.html

    I just cannot keep up with your boneheaded ideas!

    With the recent firing of Pam Bondi, could you be next if the war doesn't go well? I would hope so.
  • An interesting piece in today's UK Guardian about the Roman Catholic Archbishop who heads the US military chaplaincy for his church:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/03/us-military-archbishop-iran
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    An interesting piece in today's UK Guardian about the Roman Catholic Archbishop who heads the US military chaplaincy for his church:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/03/us-military-archbishop-iran

    Could that have been why Roman Catholics were not invited the Good Friday service?
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    edited April 4
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    An interesting piece in today's UK Guardian about the Roman Catholic Archbishop who heads the US military chaplaincy for his church:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/03/us-military-archbishop-iran

    Could that have been why Roman Catholics were not invited the Good Friday service?

    And suddenly it all makes sense now. Argh. Of course Hegseth would do that…
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    Well Hegseth also doesn't believe that Catholics are Christians anyway, and his pastor wants Catholic processions banned....
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    According to Baptist News, Hegseth has fired the Army chief of chaplains. Of note, he is black and Hegseth has known been known not to like black people. https://baptistnews.com/article/for-first-time-ever-army-chief-of-chaplains-fired-by-hegseth/
  • I know this is military and so special rules probably apply, but rather like Capone getting taken down on issues of tax evasion, it would be nice to see MAGA collapsing under the weight of a large pile of claims for unfair dismissal.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    So these pictures of Hegseth drinking on duty, are they real?
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    According to Baptist News, Hegseth has fired the Army chief of chaplains. Of note, he is black and Hegseth has known been known not to like black people. https://baptistnews.com/article/for-first-time-ever-army-chief-of-chaplains-fired-by-hegseth/

    Trump is pretty famous for his anti-Black racism so I doubt he disapproves.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    So these pictures of Hegseth drinking on duty, are they real?

    I sometimes wonder if Hegseth is real. Photos of him, bare-chested and displaying his tattoos, make him look like a sanitised version of the hybrid Orc/Man creations of Saruman in The Lord Of The Rings...
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Did Hegseth's Christian Nationalism reveal itself when he compared the rescue of the second airman to the resurrection of Christ?

    He was shot down on Good Friday.
    He spent two, three days in a cave.
    He was rescued on Easter.

    I am thankful the man was rescued. I just cringed when Hegseth made the comparison. I mean he combined divine meaning with national military action, and he treated a national event as extensions of biblical salvation history.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Did Hegseth's Christian Nationalism reveal itself when he compared the rescue of the second airman to the resurrection of Christ?

    He was shot down on Good Friday.
    He spent two, three days in a cave.
    He was rescued on Easter.

    I am thankful the man was rescued. I just cringed when Hegseth made the comparison. I mean he combined divine meaning with national military action, and he treated a national event as extensions of biblical salvation history.

    Is there any solid evidence yet for what actually happened, or is it all still AI slop and tall tales from drunken nazis?
  • Echoes of our own dear Boris Johnson, who, after contracting COVID, we were told 'rose from the bed on the third day'...

    There really are some Class A nutjobs around.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Did Hegseth's Christian Nationalism reveal itself when he compared the rescue of the second airman to the resurrection of Christ?

    He was shot down on Good Friday.
    He spent two, three days in a cave.
    He was rescued on Easter.

    I am thankful the man was rescued. I just cringed when Hegseth made the comparison. I mean he combined divine meaning with national military action, and he treated a national event as extensions of biblical salvation history.

    If he did say that then he's simply following the sort of thing his Puritan forebears said.

    They used to do this sort of thing all the time.

    Cromwell suspends Parliament and the next minute someone's pulled out an obscure Old Testament text that 'foretells' it or anticipates it in some way, however tenuously.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited April 8
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Did Hegseth's Christian Nationalism reveal itself when he compared the rescue of the second airman to the resurrection of Christ?

    He was shot down on Good Friday.
    He spent two, three days in a cave.
    He was rescued on Easter.

    I am thankful the man was rescued. I just cringed when Hegseth made the comparison. I mean he combined divine meaning with national military action, and he treated a national event as extensions of biblical salvation history.

    Is there any solid evidence yet for what actually happened, or is it all still AI slop and tall tales from drunken nazis?

    This appeared on ABC News.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Did Hegseth's Christian Nationalism reveal itself when he compared the rescue of the second airman to the resurrection of Christ?

    He was shot down on Good Friday.
    He spent two, three days in a cave.
    He was rescued on Easter.

    I am thankful the man was rescued. I just cringed when Hegseth made the comparison. I mean he combined divine meaning with national military action, and he treated a national event as extensions of biblical salvation history.

    Is there any solid evidence yet for what actually happened, or is it all still AI slop and tall tales from drunken nazis?

    This appeared on ABC News.

    Is that not just the aforementioned drunken nazi?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    NPR is reporting of a growing disquiet in the (US) military. Iran only made it worse. While the services are meeting their recruitmet goals, retention of senior enlistees and officers are at an all-time high. Many are applying for Conscientious Objector status or just not re upping when their contracts are up.
  • Might this disquiet be due to the possibility that people don't really want to be in the front line at an Armageddon engineered by Hegseth?

  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Hegseth simply doesn’t respect the concept of an illegal order. Nor does he respect international law re limitations on military behaviour. He seems to think restraint is just “soft”.

    But he’s ignorant and not very bright. A classic example of the first Peter Principle. He’s been promoted beyond his competence.

    As well as being thoroughly unpleasant.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    (Apologies to Hosts. That was Hellish.)
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    The Peter Principle is about promoting people who are competent at their current level but then can't manage the step up. Hegseth was never in a position for SoD to be a logical promotion - he was manifestly unsuitable and unqualified for the role from the beginning.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    True. Perhaps my assumption that he must have been competent about something was misplaced!?
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    (Apologies to Hosts. That was Hellish.)

    Hellish but very true.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    edited April 11
    The Peter Principle is about promoting people who are competent at their current level but then can't manage the step up. Hegseth was never in a position for SoD to be a logical promotion - he was manifestly unsuitable and unqualified for the role from the beginning.
    Not quite. The Peter Principle is a bit more subtle than that. It's that the world is largely run by people who are incompetent because they have each been promoted to the next step beyond their competence.

    The thesis is that a person does a job well. He or she gets promoted. He or she does the next job well and gets promoted again. This continues until they are promoted to a job that is beyond them. Once there, though, there they stick, because the chances are that don't do it sufficiently badly to be sacked, there is nobody who can sack them or there is not a job anybody to sidestep them to.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Pete's military career is only mid-level at best. He was a reservist who did tours in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo. If I remember right, he rose to Major, which would have been senor enough to run key parts of an organization, but not yet at the level of commanding large units. I imagine having all the US General Staff sitting in an audience with him as the lead speaker would have been a kick in the pants (for him), but very demeaning for the generals and admirals listening to his rants.

    Oops, getting hellish here too.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Pete's military career is only mid-level at best. He was a reservist who did tours in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo. If I remember right, he rose to Major, which would have been senor enough to run key parts of an organization, but not yet at the level of commanding large units.

    Getting promoted to Major after serving long enough happens to the large majority of junior officers. Basically, if you don't screw up too hard and too publicly, you'll be a Major.

    Hegseth's highest level of actual command was as a platoon leader, which is a lieutenant or second lieutenant's billet. The rest of his career basically reads like he was parked in staff roles in corners where he couldn't do too much harm.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Pete's military career is only mid-level at best. He was a reservist who did tours in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo. If I remember right, he rose to Major, which would have been senor enough to run key parts of an organization, but not yet at the level of commanding large units.

    Getting promoted to Major after serving long enough happens to the large majority of junior officers. Basically, if you don't screw up too hard and too publicly, you'll be a Major.

    Hegseth's highest level of actual command was as a platoon leader, which is a lieutenant or second lieutenant's billet. The rest of his career basically reads like he was parked in staff roles in corners where he couldn't do too much harm.

    I knew a number of Majors that ended up in staff roles back in a corner myself.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    He seemingly prefers the Bible According to Quentin Tarantino than .. ya know .. the actual Bible.
  • Yes. Pathetic, isn't it?

    I'd be laughing my head off if it wasn't for the fact that there are a lot people out there who now think that this is how Christians behave.
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