The crew of Artemis II

Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
I’m not sure whether this deserves a thread. I’ve enjoyed following the Artemis II voyage and wish them very well as the potentially dangerous re-entry approaches.

But one factor outside of the achievements has fascinated me. The Artemis II crew have been quite different from the previous generation of Apollo astronauts in the way they have communicated. They’ve seemed very open, prepared to be vulnerable, excellent communicators. Mostly, but not always, the Apollo generation seemed to belong to the ‘stiff upper lip’ school.

Reminded me a bit of the differences between the original Star Trek crew and the Next Generation crew.

A sign of cultural change? Or just my imagination? Anyway, I found it a change for the better. Views?

Comments

  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    A sign of cultural change?

    That the whole Apollo programme was played out with the backdrop of the Cold War explains a lot.

    Reading books about the programme as well as a few auto-biographies, it seems there was a conscious desire to present a very 50s view of the world (and this translated into how astronauts were portrayed, how their wives were expected to behave and so on).
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited April 9
    I hadn’t picked that up, chrisstiles. But it fits very well. The John Wayne era took a long time to die.

    The first Star Trek had Spock, the denial of the value of emotions and the emphasis on logic. The Next Generation, from the 80s and into the 90s, had the empathic Counsellor Troi and the android Data who became progressively more human and humane. So I think fiction represented some of the trends of the time away from “John Wayne”.

    All of the Artemis II astronauts are in their mid to late 40s and I suppose may be representative of those who’ve lived through the cultural changes during their growing up. It looks as though their childhood was in the 1980s and 90s. I definitely like what they show!
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    edited April 9
    Also the original Apollo astronauts were nearly all military test pilots - that would surely affect their general bearing and presentation, apart from the effects of wider cultural change.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    But one factor outside of the achievements has fascinated me. The Artemis II crew have been quite different from the previous generation of Apollo astronauts in the way they have communicated.

    But it's not like astronauthood just skipped from Apollo to Artemis. The current Artemis II crew have the example of a long series of ISS crews, Space Shuttle crews and so on to follow.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Sure. I just don’t know so much about their public appearances and behaviour.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    I hadn’t picked that up, chrisstiles. But it fits very well. The John Wayne era took a long time to die.

    Well, only a minority of even the 60s generation were hippies, and senior managers/civil servants etc would still have lived in a world that resembled the 50s (if a little Mad Men rather than Leave it to Beaver)
    Also the original Apollo astronauts were nearly all military test pilots - that would surely affect their general bearing and presentation, apart from the effects of wider cultural change.

    There was a fair amount of image management going on around the original Apollo astronauts (they were from the *military* with all that meant in terms of drinking and womanising).
  • RockyRogerRockyRoger Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    I hadn’t picked that up, chrisstiles. But it fits very well. The John Wayne era took a long time to die.

    Well, only a minority of even the 60s generation were hippies, and senior managers/civil servants etc would still have lived in a world that resembled the 50s (if a little Mad Men rather than Leave it to Beaver)
    Also the original Apollo astronauts were nearly all military test pilots - that would surely affect their general bearing and presentation, apart from the effects of wider cultural change.

    There was a fair amount of image management going on around the original Apollo astronauts (they were from the *military* with all that meant in terms of drinking and womanising).

    Ah, 'The Right Stuff'! Not all astronauts were in that mould, especially with the advent of Spacelab, the Shuttle and the ISS.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    The press conference was brilliant and a real confirmation of their capabilities as genuine and open communicators.
  • MrsBeakyMrsBeaky Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    The press conference was brilliant and a real confirmation of their capabilities as genuine and open communicators.

    I have mentioned before here on the Ship that I am of dual heritage- USA/UK.
    The son of one of my cousins is an Admiral (like his dad, my cousin, before him) in the US Navy and one of his closet friends is Commander Wiseman.
    This mission and the tribute to Wiseman's late wife who was also a close friend has been fairly emotional for my extended family members on both macro and micro levels!
  • MrsBeakyMrsBeaky Shipmate
    MrsBeaky wrote: »
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    The press conference was brilliant and a real confirmation of their capabilities as genuine and open communicators.

    I have mentioned before here on the Ship that I am of dual heritage- USA/UK.
    The son of one of my cousins is an Admiral (like his dad, my cousin, before him) in the US Navy and one of his closet friends is Commander Wiseman.
    This mission and the tribute to Wiseman's late wife who was also a close friend has been fairly emotional for my extended family members on both macro and micro levels!

    My family members would confirm that their crew member friend is as he appears to be in interviews- a decent and personable human being.
  • EigonEigon Shipmate
    I found a fascinating interview with the Artemis II crew on Houston, We Have a Podcast. They all seem like genuinely nice people, who get along together really well.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Praying for a safe re-entry. They’ve done very well as a crew and are very engaging.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited April 11
    Watched the splash down. Amazing. Reminded me of the old splash downs of the previous generation.

    During the Space Shuttle era, we were below the flight path of the shuttles when they landed at Edwards AFB in California. We lived in California at the time. We could see them streaking over us. When they landed in Florida we could hear the sonic boom as they entered the atmosphere.
  • I would love to have seen it live, but at 01.07 I just wasn't going to be functioning. Aged 10, I saw Enterprise when it visited the UK, but the only other time I've seen a Shuttle was watching two bright lights crossing the night sky as the final mission moved away from the ISS.

    Now we just need NASA to avoid falling out with you-know-who to keep future missions on track. I was 1 when Apollo 17 happened, so have no memories of moon landings at all. I so badly want my generation to have a moon landing of their own. Hopefully Artemis II will lead to it.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I managed to stay awake and watch the recovery of the astronauts, which took a long time. The TV coverage of the re-entry once they emerged from the blackout was spectacular, including the capsule in free fall and the emergence of the drone parachutes. And they had a pretty calm sea. Although it took a long time I was also impressed with the care for the astronauts safety in the recovery process.

    I think the demeanour of these particular astronauts and the way they engaged their audience as well as demonstrating their professionalism will be a standard for the future. In combination with the technical, professional and meticulous success of the mission, will it help to enable future funding. Maybe? I hope so.

    Yes, it’s expensive. And there have always been questions about the practical value of putting humans into space. I’ve no doubt they will be asked again. Personally I think it’s well worth it and there will be future unexpected benefits.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Yes, it’s expensive. And there have always been questions about the practical value of putting humans into space.

    But still costs a fraction of what it costs to blow bits of Iran up...

  • RockyRogerRockyRoger Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Yes, it’s expensive. And there have always been questions about the practical value of putting humans into space.

    But still costs a fraction of what it costs to blow bits of Iran up...

    Quite so. As a lover of the Space Shuttle and its landings, I can't help feeling, though, the abrupt arrival of Artemis II was more than a little undignified.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    A little undignified? And abrupt?

    A slow down from 25K mph to 20mph in about 10 minutes is necessarily pretty abrupt. What surprised me was the length of time the drone parachutes were left in place and the relatively short time of descent using the main parachutes. But then I’ve never seen before a descent using both so possibly it was just the modern normal. From memory, the Apollo landings took more time on the main ‘chutes.

    I was surprised at the length of time between splashdown and getting the crew out of the descent capsule. But the commentary explained very well the need for that, the emphasis both on crew safety and the subsequent inportant recovery of the capsule.

    The interval did leave the CNN commentators with a lot of time on their hands and that was pretty obvious!

    But all in all a somewhat nerve-wracking and fascinating broadcast event.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    One of the commentators said the reason why the parachutes were not immediately released on hitting the water was because they were designed to help keep the capsule upright until floatation devices were deployed. I do remember several times during the Mercury, Gemini and Apolo programs the capsules would tip allowing water to enter the machine.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited April 11
    Worth noting that today (April 11, 1970) Apollo 13 blasted off to the moon. Unfortunately, two days later, one of the oxygen tanks exploded and the mission had to be aborted. But they had to go around the moon to come back to earth. They also were not certain if reentry of the capsule would be at the right angle to survive, A group of women, called the computers, had to calculate the new reentry angle to be sure. And then, on top of that, the astronauts had to achieve that angle by looking at hash marks etched on the window. It basically was a fly by the seat of your pants operation.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I think they still call the position of the descent capsule after splashdown “stable 1” (pointy end up) or “stable 2” (pointy end down). Both are waterproof. From memory, Apollo 11 was “stable 2”.

    Apollo 13 was in many ways the most remarkable journey ever. The bit that sticks most in my mind is the huge challenge to power up the Descent module with very very little power available. Kudos to Ken Mattingly, who was most instrumental in cracking that challenge.
  • Merry VoleMerry Vole Shipmate
    edited April 12
    Apollo 11, landing on, and then taking off from, the moon was astonishing in comparison with what Artemis 2/Orion have just done. Some of the reporting could make people think this latest mission was some sort of new technological development never achieved before!
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I guess it was more like Apollo 8? But perhaps it has reawakened that sense, both of awe and the value of human exploration?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    The first manned flight of the Space Shuttle was today (April 12) in 1981,
  • Merry VoleMerry Vole Shipmate
    I think the main achievement of this latest mission is the diversity and inclusivity of the crew of 4 to include one woman astronaut and one black astronaut. I doubt the other countries planning to put astronauts on the moon will be so inclusive.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    I think the main achievement of this latest mission is the diversity and inclusivity of the crew of 4 to include one woman astronaut and one black astronaut. I doubt the other countries planning to put astronauts on the moon will be so inclusive.

    Would we recognise similar diversity in a Chinese crew? Obviously we'd know if there was a woman, but how many of us would spot if the crew were or weren't all Han?
  • The other week I mistook a cafe table of Koreans for Japanese.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    I think the main achievement of this latest mission is the diversity and inclusivity of the crew of 4 to include one woman astronaut and one black astronaut.
    I don’t know that it can be called “an achievement,” given that American space crews have been diverse in that way for a while.

  • Merry VoleMerry Vole Shipmate
    edited 6:44AM
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    I think the main achievement of this latest mission is the diversity and inclusivity of the crew of 4 to include one woman astronaut and one black astronaut.
    I don’t know that it can be called “an achievement,” given that American space crews have been diverse in that way for a while.

    Happy to stand corrected on that
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