›

I wonder why men kill women

DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
in Hell
Why the ever living fuck was this man not charged with attempted murder ?

Comments

  • HeavenlyannieHeavenlyannie Shipmate
    edited April 13
    I knew which story that would be linking to. Appalling and it clearly looks like attempted murder. I wondered why they didn’t go for that charge.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Usually, the Crown believes they could not achieve a conviction.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited April 13
    If they found him guilty of throwing her out of a 4th floor window - how could they not think that meets mens rea for murder ?

    Did they think he thought she would bounce ?
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited April 13
    Doublethink wrote: »
    If they found him guilty of throwing her out of a 4th floor window - how could they not think that meets mens rea for murder ?

    Did they think he thought she would bounce ?

    Attempted murder has a very high bar. They have to prove intent to kill, not just intent to do something that could cause death. So all a defendant has to say is that they didn't intend to kill their victim and the prosecution has the very difficult task of proving that they did.

    Perhaps bizarrely, the mens rea for murder is easier to prove than that for attempted murder.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    I just note that any attempt at dispassionate discussion of this goes in Epiphanies with own voice links.

    Otherwise, rant away.

    Dafyd Hell Host
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    edited April 13
    I wasn't agreeing with the Crown decision, simply giving a reason why at least in my jurisdiction ( New Brunswick, Canada) charges which one on the outside might think are reasonable are not laid ( I know I should not answer a rhetorical question in Hell.)
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    This is a very serious problem on the reservations near where I live. Anytime I drive through them (two nearby, others scattered throughout the state) I will see a poster or two about a disappeared woman. Often times it appears to be alcohol or drug related.
  • MarsupialMarsupial Shipmate
    Doublethink wrote: »
    Why the ever living fuck was this man not charged with attempted murder ?

    It appears from this article that he was charged but found not guilty:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0q3jxdg5k2o

    The procedural history appears to be rather complicated - there is a mention of a re-trial and he was also found guilty of other offences against the same victim in a separate trial.

  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    OK I’ll ask how the jury could possibly think that wasn’t attempted murder.
  • Merry VoleMerry Vole Shipmate
    According to my wife's experience of being a juror, juries pretty much go with the advice of the judge. Long delays of cases getting to court make she and I sympathetic to the proposed reforms of the jury system.
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    I am sorry my Lud but I forgot we were on the fourth floor. I just thought to injure her to teach her a lesson Honest sir.

    Given the number of lads who were reported to have got out of third floor windows thinking they were ground floor rather than face the Warden of an all female hall of residence when I was at Uni...

    I have sat through too many start of year talks by senior students on "If you accidentally happen to have a man in your room after midnight this is how you can let him out of the hall... No you cannot come in that way. Get yourself a late key" for this to be entirely without basis.

    The rule was there for a reason. It is a lot easier to remove a unwanted male guest for overstaying their welcome with this sort of rule than have to go into queries of what was going on in the middle of the night.
  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    And in five years time this man could come after her again. Nothing about this sentence makes sense.
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    I read the title of the thread and the answer that popped into my head was; "Because they can."
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    All about control
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited 11:26AM
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    Long delays of cases getting to court make she and I sympathetic to the proposed reforms of the jury system.

    The delays aren't really related in any way to the jury system, it's court capacity.
    According to my wife's experience of being a juror, juries pretty much go with the advice of the judge.

    Which a move away from the jury system will just make worse, if anything.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Jengie Jon wrote: »
    I am sorry my Lud but I forgot we were on the fourth floor. I just thought to injure her to teach her a lesson Honest sir.

    Given the number of lads who were reported to have got out of third floor windows thinking they were ground floor rather than face the Warden of an all female hall of residence when I was at Uni...

    I have sat through too many start of year talks by senior students on "If you accidentally happen to have a man in your room after midnight this is how you can let him out of the hall... No you cannot come in that way. Get yourself a late key" for this to be entirely without basis.

    The rule was there for a reason. It is a lot easier to remove a unwanted male guest for overstaying their welcome with this sort of rule than have to go into queries of what was going on in the middle of the night.

    Except his defence was that he didnt throw her, she jumped.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited 2:55PM
    Rage isn’t confined to men. But a rage-fuelled application of superior strength is much more likely in a man. Not just when that violence is directed at a woman.

    On the facts revealed here, I can’t see how it could have been other than attempted murder.

    And delay of trial doesn’t change mens rea. And carrying her back to the appartment rather than calling an ambulance speaks of a guilty mind.

    I just don’t get it.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Cases like this unsettle us because the violence is unmistakable, yet the legal outcome feels far smaller than the harm done. The gap between what happened and what can be proved—especially around intent—often leaves victims and communities feeling unprotected. It’s a painful reminder of how coercive control and intimate‑partner violence slip through the cracks, and why we must keep naming and challenging these patterns.

    As I read the article it seems the prosecution had the burden of refutirng the man's intent. Sort of like proving a negative.

    However, five years is a significant amount of time. I see in Great Britian while the maximum for attempted murder is life, the actual range of sentencing is anywhere from 3 to 40 years depending on a whole range of issues, See here.
Sign In or Register to comment.