some people don't think primarily verbally, or indeed have an inner monologue at all. And some people cannot visualise things in their heads.
I came across this possibility a few years ago, and suddenly realised that the inability to visualise is probably the reason why Mr RoS cannot recognise a route he has travelled on many, many times, nor the houses of friends he has visited frequently.
Having been the frustrated and unwilling navigator in the family car because of this inability I bless the inventor of the SatNav!
And yes, I think his inner monologue is absent, too. At least that is the excuse I give him for the many occasions he interrupts the ones going on in my head!
I think this is a tangent, for which I apologise.
Good tangent.
Wherever I am, in my head there is a map with a dot on it saying effectively "you are here" and I see the roads, paths, settlements, railways and so on. I still need maps because my mental one isn't perfect and only has on it what I already know, but if I'm for example driving North up the M1 through Leicestershire, I see a blue line in my mind, and where I am on that line, with London behind me, Leeds ahead, Sheffield, Derby, Nottingham just off it, Birmingham over on my left, Manchester at about 10 o'clock. Same walking in the hills; I mentally see myself where I think I am on an OS map.
I was startled to learn everyone doesn't have that. It's like breathing to me.
I came across this possibility a few years ago, and suddenly realised that the inability to visualise is probably the reason why Mr RoS cannot recognise a route he has travelled on many, many times, nor the houses of friends he has visited frequently.
I believe it is possible to recognise a route without being able to recall a route. Aphantasia appears to be more related to recall than recognition.
Yes, I am aphantasic and can recognise routes. I just can’t picture them in my mind. I don’t think visually or dream with images and I also struggle to use visual methods of processing ideas, such as charts and maps. I have to remind myself to use images in my presentations as they do not interest me. Yet I do textile art and have a good eye for colour.
I, like most manic depressives, have a constant monologue in my head. I process information verbally, for instance, I plan essays in my head as if I was giving a lecture on the subject. Even writing this short post has been a stream of inner conversation.
Yes, I am aphantasic and can recognise routes. I just can’t picture them in my mind. I don’t think visually or dream with images and I also struggle to use visual methods of processing ideas, such as charts and maps. I have to remind myself to use images in my presentations as they do not interest me. Yet I do textile art and have a good eye for colour.
I, like most manic depressives, have a constant monologue in my head. I process information verbally, for instance, I plan essays in my head as if I was giving a lecture on the subject. Even writing this short post has been a stream of inner conversation.
Quite. I can't quite imagine it otherwise. I'm not aware of a thought until I've thought it in words.
My thoughts are 80% visual. My dreams are 100% visual.
I don't know what I'm going to say/type until I say or type it. Good thing my thoughts are kind as I speak my thoughts.
I learn best by doing.
Visuals in a lecture keep me interested so help me learn. Typed words on a screen are entirely wasted on me.
My friend's husband is a top science professor who used to advise at very high level in the ministry of defence - many years ago.
She called me in as she knows I'm techy and he couldn't work out his new car sat nav.
When I got there he gave me the (enormous) instruction booklet. I gave it back and said 'that won't be any use to me, I can't follow written instructions'.
He looked entirely bemused.
I sorted out his sat nav and taught him how to use it in no time.
He said 'you are brilliant'. I'm still glowing from the praise given by such a clever bloke!
Interesting to hear all these different experiences. I dream and remember in colour, but struggle to imagine anything I haven't seen - characters in books for example - in anything but the sketchiest of ways.
I can work from written instructions and pick stuff up from writing but by far the best way of learning things for me is to actually do them. I suspect this may be why I've such terrible trouble with maths as I can't physically do it - especially as I can often see when an answer is right or wrong, but I'm buggered if I can see why!
It also makes learning new methods when ringing like pulling teeth, as I struggle to transfer the diagram to my head (which is how it's usually done) until I can do the physical bits that make it up. It's a sizable aggravation in something I otherwise enjoy very much. I'll have to try learning a method again at some point, but I will have to hit the cutlery counter and buy a job lot of extra spoons first.
I tried briefly to learn bellringing, but I couldn't get my head around the numerical aspect.
It puzzled me how David could enjoy it, because in a general way, anything mathematical was a mystery to him (he failed O level maths, and used to say "never trust anything I say about numbers!").
He had a theory that most musicians were either very good or very bad at maths, and I think he may have had a point.
I can work from written instructions and pick stuff up from writing but by far the best way of learning things for me is to actually do them.
I'm like that too - and since my memory seems to be disappearing at an alarming rate, I have to 'do things' a lot to make it stick.
Perhaps you'll recognise a current problem I have - to hang onto a (very) PT temporary lab tech job, I think I might have to re-imagine myself as someone who knows about something I currently know nothing about at all (but it's the thing that no-one else in the lab can be ar*ed with - that's the attraction). When I used to teach I acquired a few 'specialisms' this way, when someone retired and I put my hand up for something I didn't much want to do, rather than keep it down and be given (I feared) something I _really_ didn't want to do shortly afterwards. I didn't end up regretting those moves, but dang I was younger then and I could learn and remember.
I think everyone learns best by doing. The question is generally what method of imparting to them what to do varies - written instructions, showing them, verbally telling them, letting them play with it.
Personally I hate it when the answer to an IT problem is in a YouTube video - but that's also partly because the first five minutes will be advertising their channel, the next five will be describing the problem again, and the ten second fix will then be stretched over the next five minutes.
Personally I hate it when the answer to an IT problem is in a YouTube video - but that's also partly because the first five minutes will be advertising their channel, the next five will be describing the problem again, and the ten second fix will then be stretched over the next five minutes.
I concur with one exception: tear downs of electronic devices. If you're trying to change a phone screen or the like a video is probably the best medium for actually showing where to detach things.
If something is explained in a video, I immediately look to see if there is a transcript.
Today I was with some other choir members. We were rubbing out pencil markings rather than singing, so had plenty of opportunity to chat. I discovered how multi-skilled they are, from painting, horse-riding, quilting to yachting, whereas lack any sort of creative or practical skills, and at my age, have no plans to learn any.
I operate in words, in my head and on paper/ tablet. I do lots of puzzles as long as numbers are not involved.
I very much operate in words inside my head. I was suffering writer's block on my MA thesis. One Saturday evening at a party, after a couple of beers, I started writing the first paragraph of my first chapter in my head. I walked into the office Monday morning, wrote down the paragraph (pre-computer days) and the rest flowed out over the next 4 months.
I concur with one exception: tear downs of electronic devices. If you're trying to change a phone screen or the like a video is probably the best medium for actually showing where to detach things.
It's not just electronics: a video was worth a thousand words when it came to describing exactly how to manipulate this panel on my car in order to remove it, of which three of the dozens of adjacent screws are the ones that anchor this particular part.
I concur with one exception: tear downs of electronic devices. If you're trying to change a phone screen or the like a video is probably the best medium for actually showing where to detach things.
It's not just electronics: a video was worth a thousand words when it came to describing exactly how to manipulate this panel on my car in order to remove it, of which three of the dozens of adjacent screws are the ones that anchor this particular part.
A diagram can also be worth a thousand words. Video can be an appropriate medium but most videos are painfully slowly paced. A diagram or written description is easy to skim.
I concur with one exception: tear downs of electronic devices. If you're trying to change a phone screen or the like a video is probably the best medium for actually showing where to detach things.
It's not just electronics: a video was worth a thousand words when it came to describing exactly how to manipulate this panel on my car in order to remove it, of which three of the dozens of adjacent screws are the ones that anchor this particular part.
Go on, admit you broke more than half of the plastic clips which were also involved, and that you are now wondering whether a liberal application of visible self-tappers or a wobbly panel will annoy your wife more
(My oven rotted around the screw holes which hold the fan shroud on, as I found when I had to change the element recently. Now even the kitchen appliances are starting to resemble the underside of my car. At least I don't have to get them through an MOT!)
I’m preparing my answers for my next French group where our topic is what we find difficult compared to others, and vice versa. This thread has given me plenty of ideas. Pictures, videos, graphs versus words.
I actually realised one day that I don’t see the pictures eg on a page of a newspaper unless I make a conscious effort ( which I do, now I am aware of my failing).
I would love to learn Scottish Gaelic. I tried a couple of years ago, and got an "A" in Nat 5. (roughly GCSE) but I think the classes taught me how to pass Nat 5, rather than learning it properly. I don't feel that I could progress onto Higher. I'm currently trying to read a bit of the New Testament in Gaelic every day, to get more of a "feel" for it. I only need to recognise two or three words in a sentence to understand it because I already know what the sentence says, so this is working quite well for me.
Comments
Good tangent.
Wherever I am, in my head there is a map with a dot on it saying effectively "you are here" and I see the roads, paths, settlements, railways and so on. I still need maps because my mental one isn't perfect and only has on it what I already know, but if I'm for example driving North up the M1 through Leicestershire, I see a blue line in my mind, and where I am on that line, with London behind me, Leeds ahead, Sheffield, Derby, Nottingham just off it, Birmingham over on my left, Manchester at about 10 o'clock. Same walking in the hills; I mentally see myself where I think I am on an OS map.
I was startled to learn everyone doesn't have that. It's like breathing to me.
Interesting - I would say those are two different things.
Called aphantasia. Which has come up once or twice on the forums.
I believe it is possible to recognise a route without being able to recall a route. Aphantasia appears to be more related to recall than recognition.
I, like most manic depressives, have a constant monologue in my head. I process information verbally, for instance, I plan essays in my head as if I was giving a lecture on the subject. Even writing this short post has been a stream of inner conversation.
Quite. I can't quite imagine it otherwise. I'm not aware of a thought until I've thought it in words.
I don't know what I'm going to say/type until I say or type it. Good thing my thoughts are kind as I speak my thoughts.
I learn best by doing.
Visuals in a lecture keep me interested so help me learn. Typed words on a screen are entirely wasted on me.
My friend's husband is a top science professor who used to advise at very high level in the ministry of defence - many years ago.
She called me in as she knows I'm techy and he couldn't work out his new car sat nav.
When I got there he gave me the (enormous) instruction booklet. I gave it back and said 'that won't be any use to me, I can't follow written instructions'.
He looked entirely bemused.
I sorted out his sat nav and taught him how to use it in no time.
He said 'you are brilliant'. I'm still glowing from the praise given by such a clever bloke!
We are all differently wired.
I can work from written instructions and pick stuff up from writing but by far the best way of learning things for me is to actually do them. I suspect this may be why I've such terrible trouble with maths as I can't physically do it - especially as I can often see when an answer is right or wrong, but I'm buggered if I can see why!
It also makes learning new methods when ringing like pulling teeth, as I struggle to transfer the diagram to my head (which is how it's usually done) until I can do the physical bits that make it up. It's a sizable aggravation in something I otherwise enjoy very much. I'll have to try learning a method again at some point, but I will have to hit the cutlery counter and buy a job lot of extra spoons first.
It puzzled me how David could enjoy it, because in a general way, anything mathematical was a mystery to him (he failed O level maths, and used to say "never trust anything I say about numbers!").
He had a theory that most musicians were either very good or very bad at maths, and I think he may have had a point.
I'm like that too - and since my memory seems to be disappearing at an alarming rate, I have to 'do things' a lot to make it stick.
Perhaps you'll recognise a current problem I have - to hang onto a (very) PT temporary lab tech job, I think I might have to re-imagine myself as someone who knows about something I currently know nothing about at all (but it's the thing that no-one else in the lab can be ar*ed with - that's the attraction). When I used to teach I acquired a few 'specialisms' this way, when someone retired and I put my hand up for something I didn't much want to do, rather than keep it down and be given (I feared) something I _really_ didn't want to do shortly afterwards. I didn't end up regretting those moves, but dang I was younger then and I could learn and remember.
Personally I hate it when the answer to an IT problem is in a YouTube video - but that's also partly because the first five minutes will be advertising their channel, the next five will be describing the problem again, and the ten second fix will then be stretched over the next five minutes.
I concur with one exception: tear downs of electronic devices. If you're trying to change a phone screen or the like a video is probably the best medium for actually showing where to detach things.
Today I was with some other choir members. We were rubbing out pencil markings rather than singing, so had plenty of opportunity to chat. I discovered how multi-skilled they are, from painting, horse-riding, quilting to yachting, whereas lack any sort of creative or practical skills, and at my age, have no plans to learn any.
I operate in words, in my head and on paper/ tablet. I do lots of puzzles as long as numbers are not involved.
It's not just electronics: a video was worth a thousand words when it came to describing exactly how to manipulate this panel on my car in order to remove it, of which three of the dozens of adjacent screws are the ones that anchor this particular part.
A diagram can also be worth a thousand words. Video can be an appropriate medium but most videos are painfully slowly paced. A diagram or written description is easy to skim.
Go on, admit you broke more than half of the plastic clips which were also involved, and that you are now wondering whether a liberal application of visible self-tappers or a wobbly panel will annoy your wife more
(My oven rotted around the screw holes which hold the fan shroud on, as I found when I had to change the element recently. Now even the kitchen appliances are starting to resemble the underside of my car. At least I don't have to get them through an MOT!)
I actually realised one day that I don’t see the pictures eg on a page of a newspaper unless I make a conscious effort ( which I do, now I am aware of my failing).