But is Farage therefore less extreme than Meloni / Le Pen / AfD ?
Possibly. It is difficult to compare. What is seen as very right wing in one country may not be seen so in another. Reform are certainly not as right wing as Restore Britain.
Here's a test:
If one each of typical Farage, Le Pen, Meloni, and AfD supporters met in an airport lounge between their respective connecting-flights and started discussing the usual hot-button issues, would there be any among them who would think "Holy cow, some of these opinions are WAY too extreme for me!"
My personal guess would be no, EXCEPT in regards to certain historical topics, eg. if the AfDer said "You know, everyone attacks Herr Hitler, and fair enough, but in some cases, he was just doing what needed to be done", it might offend the Reformer, simply because nationalistic Britons have been trained to think of Hitler as an enemy of Britain.
But if it was just the AfDer saying "We really need to just clear all these Muslim scroungers the hell outta Germany", it likely wouldn't set off any alarm-bells for the Reformer.
Yes as I said there would be differences. They are all right wing so there would be things in common. Reform are medium far right. They say they want nothing to do with Tommy Robinson and are to the left (slightly) of Restore.
From what I can tell AFD are more right wing than Reform but they are all fairly far right.
Several commentators are saying the right could eat itself. Restore could take a good number of votes from Reform in the up coming bye-election. That means Labour have a good chance of getting in and Burnham will make his leadership bid. Let Reform and Restore fight it out and damage each other in the public eye.
Apropos Reform and Restore Britain eating themselves, we ought to add the Conservative Party. Having moved to the right and lost support and MPs to Reform and Restore Britain, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of those who jumped one ship may well jump back again, once the degree of incompetence and unpleasantness becomes apparent.
I really don’t think many people realise how nasty things are inside the right wing parties.
Apropos Reform and Restore Britain eating themselves, we ought to add the Conservative Party.
And the Labour Party. Labour's response to the far right England flag littering campaign was for Yvette Cooper to pretend she hangs them too. Starmer's response to losing a by election that the right accused of being hijacked by Islamists was to blame sectarianism.
Apropos Reform and Restore Britain eating themselves, we ought to add the Conservative Party.
And the Labour Party. Labour's response to the far right England flag littering campaign was for Yvette Cooper to pretend she hangs them too. Starmer's response to losing a by election that the right accused of being hijacked by Islamists was to blame sectarianism.
And that in turn led to disillusioned Labour voters turning to the Libdems and increasingly the Greens. It looks like the latter two parties will soft pedal the Makerfield by-election and possibly even direct their supporters to vote Labour (even if they have to hold their noses) to ensure Reform are beaten.
Starmer's response to losing a by election that the right accused of being hijacked by Islamists was to blame sectarianism.
You mean he was blaming alleged Muslim sectarianism for the defeat?
He wasn't specific, but that was the implication that might be drawn, yes.
Thanks.
I wonder if "sectarianism" is a common term(possibly as a dog-whistle) in the UK in reference to alleged Muslim extremism. Ulster-style sectarianism played a significant role in Canadian history, but these days I doubt 1 in 10 Canadians would recognize the relevance of the word in regards to their history, and I don't think I've often heard it used in reference to the influence of non-Christian religions on general politics.
Farage’s latest outburst alleges “Two tier policing” following riots in Southampton in the wake of the trial of a Sikh man for a young white man.
It’s exactly what one would expect, and I believe he’s just playing to his evil choir. My view is that the police are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. They made an arrest of a dying man after the murderer alleged racism. I don’t think the Hampshire Police got everything right, but Farage’s call for “Pure, Cold Rage” having noted the dignified response of the victims family, shows is nastier than I stated a few days ago. He isn’t a reactionary Tory, he’s a political racist, just a uniform short of Mosley.
Farage’s latest outburst alleges “Two tier policing” following riots in Southampton in the wake of the trial of a Sikh man for a young white man.
It’s exactly what one would expect, and I believe he’s just playing to his evil choir. My view is that the police are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. They made an arrest of a dying man after the murderer alleged racism. I don’t think the Hampshire Police got everything right, but Farage’s call for “Pure, Cold Rage” having noted the dignified response of the victims family, shows is nastier than I stated a few days ago. He isn’t a reactionary Tory, he’s a political racist, just a uniform short of Mosley.
The dead man’s family expressly asked that their son’s death not be used to cause unrest etc. Farage kind of eluded to this but said others should be enraged. Cold hard rage
Farage’s latest outburst alleges “Two tier policing” following riots in Southampton in the wake of the trial of a Sikh man for a young white man.
It’s exactly what one would expect, and I believe he’s just playing to his evil choir. My view is that the police are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. They made an arrest of a dying man after the murderer alleged racism. I don’t think the Hampshire Police got everything right, but Farage’s call for “Pure, Cold Rage” having noted the dignified response of the victims family, shows is nastier than I stated a few days ago. He isn’t a reactionary Tory, he’s a political racist, just a uniform short of Mosley.
The dead man’s family expressly asked that their son’s death not be used to cause unrest etc. Farage kind of eluded to this but said others should be enraged. Cold hard rage
I don't wish to discuss the specifics of this particular case, because a) I don't have all the details; b) the matter will soon be before the courts; and c) the Ship's mods are sensitive to libel law.
That said, as a general rule, in cases of alleged police wrongdoing, I don't think the victim's family should get the last word as to how the public or politicians react, because the family are not the only stakeholders.
Further reading on the case indicates that Digwa has already been convicted and sentenced. Basic point still stands, because the case is still under investigation by the relevant legal bodies.
Another consequence of those lies is that the attending police officers honestly believed that there were reasonable grounds for suspecting Henry had committed an offence and arrested him with the consequence he was handcuffed for about a minute before his condition further deteriorated and the arresting officer began CPR. The police were given a convincing but wholly false narrative of the incident. It was dark and Henry was wearing a dark top. The entry damage caused by the knife through it, would not have been obvious. Whilst there was visible blood on Henry, it would not have clearly been seen coming from that wound and the clearly visible facial wound was not life-threatening. Henry was complaining that he had been stabbed and was struggling to breathe but that would not have necessarily told the officers how serious the situation had become. It is the experience of the criminal courts that sometimes, someone arrested and handcuffed will feign injury in the hope they may be released. These police officers were faced with having to make quick decisions in pressurised circumstances about the best way to act. The genuine shock to the particular police officer, when he realised that he had been giving CPR to Henry when he had a serious chest wound tends to show that he was doing his best in a very difficult situation.
I live locally-ish (not in Southampton itself but it's my nearest larger city) and the city has been afflicted by a group called Southampton Patriots for many months, mostly protesting outside a hotel housing asylum seekers. Farage has just given them a green flag to cause even more trouble - protests have already caused damage to houses and cars owned by people who have nothing to do with the case. Nobody in Southampton wants unrest apart from the violent racists already causing it. It's also taking advantage of local frustration wrt football (look up "Spygate") and using it for violent ends.
It’s rather apposite to report this today but Reform councillors supporting their candidate in the Makerfield by-election were photographed yesterday favourably sex offender Jimmy Savile to Labour.
This isn’t new. Back in 2025 a Reform candidate described Jimmy Savile as an “innocent man” (presumably on the basis that he had never actually been convicted) and a “working class hero”.
I still wouldn’t be surprised if Reform wins the seat but that would only confirm to me the way in which the rich and powerful have manipulated public opinion using the news
It’s rather apposite to report this today but Reform councillors supporting their candidate in the Makerfield by-election were photographed yesterday favourably sex offender Jimmy Savile to Labour.
This isn’t new. Back in 2025 a Reform candidate described Jimmy Savile as an “innocent man” (presumably on the basis that he had never actually been convicted) and a “working class hero”.
I still wouldn’t be surprised if Reform wins the seat but that would only confirm to me the way in which the rich and powerful have manipulated public opinion using the news
From what I have seen they have changed it and are claiming it was doctored
It’s rather apposite to report this today but Reform councillors supporting their candidate in the Makerfield by-election were photographed yesterday favourably sex offender Jimmy Savile to Labour.
This isn’t new. Back in 2025 a Reform candidate described Jimmy Savile as an “innocent man” (presumably on the basis that he had never actually been convicted) and a “working class hero”.
I still wouldn’t be surprised if Reform wins the seat but that would only confirm to me the way in which the rich and powerful have manipulated public opinion using the news
From what I have seen they have changed it and are claiming it was doctored
Except it wasn't doctored - and there are several different photos featuring the same poster.
It’s rather apposite to report this today but Reform councillors supporting their candidate in the Makerfield by-election were photographed yesterday favourably sex offender Jimmy Savile to Labour.
This isn’t new. Back in 2025 a Reform candidate described Jimmy Savile as an “innocent man” (presumably on the basis that he had never actually been convicted) and a “working class hero”.
I still wouldn’t be surprised if Reform wins the seat but that would only confirm to me the way in which the rich and powerful have manipulated public opinion using the news
From what I have seen they have changed it and are claiming it was doctored
If it was doctored, then why have they changed it? Have I failed to identify the correct “they”.
It’s rather apposite to report this today but Reform councillors supporting their candidate in the Makerfield by-election were photographed yesterday favourably sex offender Jimmy Savile to Labour.
This isn’t new. Back in 2025 a Reform candidate described Jimmy Savile as an “innocent man” (presumably on the basis that he had never actually been convicted) and a “working class hero”.
I still wouldn’t be surprised if Reform wins the seat but that would only confirm to me the way in which the rich and powerful have manipulated public opinion using the news
From what I have seen they have changed it and are claiming it was doctored
Except it wasn't doctored - and there are several different photos featuring the same poster.
Yes I saw that too. We shall see tomorrow if it affected the bye election today
It’s rather apposite to report this today but Reform councillors supporting their candidate in the Makerfield by-election were photographed yesterday favourably sex offender Jimmy Savile to Labour.
This isn’t new. Back in 2025 a Reform candidate described Jimmy Savile as an “innocent man” (presumably on the basis that he had never actually been convicted) and a “working class hero”.
I still wouldn’t be surprised if Reform wins the seat but that would only confirm to me the way in which the rich and powerful have manipulated public opinion using the news
From what I have seen they have changed it and are claiming it was doctored
Except it wasn't doctored - and there are several different photos featuring the same poster.
Yes I saw that too. We shall see tomorrow if it affected the bye election today
3 by-elections, and in none were Reform close to winning. If they were genuinely likely to form the next government you'd expect them to be winning by-elections handily. It's becoming clear that their vote has a hard ceiling; they're unlikely to be the beneficiaries (and very likely to the targets) of tactical votes, because the Restore types think they're pinko liberals and everyone else thinks they're fascists.
It’s rather apposite to report this today but Reform councillors supporting their candidate in the Makerfield by-election were photographed yesterday favourably sex offender Jimmy Savile to Labour.
This isn’t new. Back in 2025 a Reform candidate described Jimmy Savile as an “innocent man” (presumably on the basis that he had never actually been convicted) and a “working class hero”.
I still wouldn’t be surprised if Reform wins the seat but that would only confirm to me the way in which the rich and powerful have manipulated public opinion using the news
From what I have seen they have changed it and are claiming it was doctored
Except it wasn't doctored - and there are several different photos featuring the same poster.
Yes I saw that too. We shall see tomorrow if it affected the bye election today
3 by-elections, and in none were Reform close to winning. If they were genuinely likely to form the next government you'd expect them to be winning by-elections handily. It's becoming clear that their vote has a hard ceiling; they're unlikely to be the beneficiaries (and very likely to the targets) of tactical votes, because the Restore types think they're pinko liberals and everyone else thinks they're fascists.
A very good summary. Several news and commentary sources are saying Reform’s peak has gone .
A very good summary. Several news and commentary sources are saying Reform’s peak has gone .
Let us hope so. In years to come it should be fun watching the rats who deserted the sinking ship trying to desert back onto the ship from whence they came.
I can but pray that, seeing his support fading, that Farage will overreach himself and finally some - preferably vast quantities of - shit will stick to his thus far Teflon exterior.
A very good summary. Several news and commentary sources are saying Reform’s peak has gone .
Let us hope so. In years to come it should be fun watching the rats who deserted the sinking ship trying to desert back onto the ship from whence they came.
I can but pray that, seeing his support fading, that Farage will overreach himself and finally some - preferably vast quantities of - shit will stick to his thus far Teflon exterior.
I don’t know he has Teflon exterior. I think some voters don’t care what he is covered in
There appear to be mischievous players who quite like the stirring-up capabilities of Reform, its previous existence and potential spin-offs. The more politically confused some sectors of the population become, the greater the further destabilisation of political life in the UK.
Politics and politicians haven’t helped themselves or us by employing “spin” advisers and the like. News management easily degenerates into manipulation of truth.
I think it was Sir Humphrey who used the phase “moral malleability” to characterise politicians. That’s the danger of putting popularity ahead of facing hard realities.
In the wake of the Nowak killing and alleged police bungling, a slew of videoes is turning up on YouTube of conservative and mostly white Brits getting into confrontations with the cops while yelling about "two-tiered policing" and parodically echoing "I don't think you have, mate."
One right-winger I semi-follow linked to an RT video of police in Rotherham trading fisticuffs with some teenaged girls dressed in fancy party dress. The claim was that this proves the police are at war with "the white working-class", but it's really hard to discern anyone's motivation from the video. It all looked rather farcical to me, though I hope no one was seriously hurt.
It being stronry hot, too hot for work, I've been reading the latest 'Church Times' more assiduously than usual. There is an interesting interview of Danny Kruger who defected to Reform last year. A difficult read. He comes over as so reasonable. Mrs RR remarked his views are pretty much in line with not a few of the evan Christians she's been friends with for years. Scary.
Kruger's book, 'Covenant' is about to be republished. There's a hint he quotes Roger Scruton a lot. As I said, scary. Has any shipmate read Kruger's book or know more about him? How can he, as a Christian, align himself with the likes of Farage?
Mr Farage has been calling for a General Election because we voted in Mr Starmer not his successor. To be consistent he should also be calling for by-elections in all the constituencies where the electorate voted in a Conservative who subsequently changed parties so is not now the one that they wanted.
Per election rules we don't get another vote in either case, of course, but Mr F seems to be unaware of this and also how dim it makes him appear to sensible people.
Mr F also also got a bit uppity, complaining about left-wing BBC, when Sally Nugent (BBC Breakfast anchor so not usually as pushy as, say, a dedicated political journalist might be) kept pushing him about that inconsistency of not having by-elections when an MP defects from the party they were elected for. She also pushed him a fair bit about £5m gift from a dodgy cryto-currency billionaire who doesn't even live here.
Per election rules we don't get another vote in either case, of course, but Mr F seems to be unaware of this and also how dim it makes him appear to sensible people.
He's well aware but doesn't care (and in fairness it seems like most politicians are wildly hypocritical on this, including Burnham), and Farage hasn't got this far in politics by appealing to sensible people. His entire brand is stoking the rage of the non-sensible, or possibly the insensible.
Has any shipmate read Kruger's book or know more about him? How can he, as a Christian, align himself with the likes of Farage?
Because his political commitments are largely what's real, and the Christian part is more or less lip service. You get much the same vibe from the speakers at the Arc conference which is currently going on. Watched Paul Marshall speak yesterday, and about 10% of his speech his eminently sensible - and belied by the politicians he's chosen to invite (Farage and the rougher end of the Conservative and Republican parties) and the rest of what he says.
@RockyRoger - I don't know much about Kruger or Scruton nor can I say how influential they are across the evangelical spectrum here in the UK.
My impression though is that some 'God TV', GBNews viewing evangelicals are drawn towards some of this stuff but they aren't necessarily representative of their congregations as a whole.
Evangelicalism is no more monolithic than any other Christian tradition and you'll find a range of views in the pews.
These days, it seems to me, the 'glue' that holds many evangelical congregations together is a penchant for a common 'charismatic lite' worship style and an increasingly TV chat show format irrespective of what the political or ideological views individual participants might have.
The same is true at the upper end of the candle where there is a commitment to sacramental forms of worship irrespective of what the participants' views are on political or Epiphanous issues.
I don't see mass evangelical support for Farage or - heaven help us, Lowe - but there are certainly pockets of support for both out there.
What I don't think we'll see here is a parallel to the situation in the US where the majority of evangelicals voted for Trump.
But we will see particular pastors and congregations nailing their colours to that mast.
Most evangelicals I come across are very opposed to Reform and Restore and are annoyed at them trying to co-opt Christian imagery and rhetoric.
I can think of some who are well up for Reform or Restore though, but I don’t think they represent a majority view.
@RockyRoger - I don't know much about Kruger or Scruton nor can I say how influential they are across the evangelical spectrum here in the UK.
My impression though is that some 'God TV', GBNews viewing evangelicals are drawn towards some of this stuff but they aren't necessarily representative of their congregations as a whole.
Evangelicalism is no more monolithic than any other Christian tradition and you'll find a range of views in the pews.
These days, it seems to me, the 'glue' that holds many evangelical congregations together is a penchant for a common 'charismatic lite' worship style and an increasingly TV chat show format irrespective of what the political or ideological views individual participants might have.
The same is true at the upper end of the candle where there is a commitment to sacramental forms of worship irrespective of what the participants' views are on political or Epiphanous issues.
I don't see mass evangelical support for Farage or - heaven help us, Lowe - but there are certainly pockets of support for both out there.
What I don't think we'll see here is a parallel to the situation in the US where the majority of evangelicals voted for Trump.
But we will see particular pastors and congregations nailing their colours to that mast.
Most evangelicals I come across are very opposed to Reform and Restore and are annoyed at them trying to co-opt Christian imagery and rhetoric.
I can think of some who are well up for Reform or Restore though, but I don’t think they represent a majority view.
Yes some are as you say leaning towards Reform/Restore. The rest of us cannot understand how they can follow Jesus and vote for Reform/Restore. They are free to do so but it is illogical.
I’m sure we have a few Reform supporters in our church, but like many elsewhere, I believe they are refugees from the Conservative Party, especially MPs who have switched, on the basis that if they stand as a Conservative against a Reform candidate they will lose.
I find it ironic that Reform supporters should be refugees 😉
I think it's a reflection of the fact that some evangelicalism is not much more than skin deep in terms of changing values, so why wouldn't some evangelicals just look like the surrounding culture.
And secondly, there's probably a fringe of people attracted to authoritarian personality types.
.. and there are also odd ideological overlaps - like the one between creationism and climate change denialism.
I'm not sure that's odd at all. Once you've decided that the entire scientific community can be fundamentally wrong about something it's easy to decide they're wrong about something else. Creationists are easily led into climate change denial (especially if they're on the political right which views renewable energy sources and active travel as lefty hippy shit) and Climate change denialists are IME also easily led into Covid denialism, 5G bollocks, chemtrails and sometimes right down the rabbit hole into NWO Illuminati depopulation plots.
Sadly, Danny Kruger is our MP. He attends an HTB plant, which obviously leaves room for such views (eg Paul Marshall), but I'd think that most of their leaders and congregation are much more reasonable.
From what I've seen recently of HTB-ish or influenced parishes, there's certainly 'room' for Reform-ish kind of views, but they don't appear to be the 'dominant' view.
We've got people with those kind of views among our 'enquirers' and recent converts, which is worrying, but you'll find a range of political views across our regular attenders from the left of the Labour Party through centrist to some way out on the right ...
I've heard that in the US Orthodox parishes are dividing along political lines - some are entirely made up of Democrat voters, others Republican. It's become very polarised.
I don't want to see that happen here but the way Reform and Restore are trying to play the 'traditional Christian values' card does worry me a great deal.
.. and there are also odd ideological overlaps - like the one between creationism and climate change denialism.
I'm not sure that's odd at all.
Yeah perhaps that was the wrong word (I meant odd in the occasional rather than strange sense). The mechanisms are obvious, it’s just seems rare that knowing something about someone’s religious beliefs maps so directly to knowing their likely view on something so ostensibly non religious (I’ve met people who view climate change in conservative biblical terms, but it seems a minority sport).
Mr Farage has been calling for a General Election because we voted in Mr Starmer not his successor. To be consistent he should also be calling for by-elections in all the constituencies where the electorate voted in a Conservative who subsequently changed parties so is not now the one that they wanted.
Per election rules we don't get another vote in either case, of course, but Mr F seems to be unaware of this and also how dim it makes him appear to sensible people.
He’s merely echoing those in Labour who said the same thing every time the Tories changed leader between elections over the last decade. I’m pretty sure I remember quite a few here saying similar stuff as well.
Mr Farage has been calling for a General Election because we voted in Mr Starmer not his successor. To be consistent he should also be calling for by-elections in all the constituencies where the electorate voted in a Conservative who subsequently changed parties so is not now the one that they wanted.
Per election rules we don't get another vote in either case, of course, but Mr F seems to be unaware of this and also how dim it makes him appear to sensible people.
He’s merely echoing those in Labour who said the same thing every time the Tories changed leader between elections over the last decade. I’m pretty sure I remember quite a few here saying similar stuff as well.
Partisan complaining about a new PM chosen between elections supposedly lacking legitimacy is one of the standard hypocrisies of Westminster politics. It's also an outta-place imposition of presidential criteria on a parliamentary system, because even with an election, you're not voting for a prime minister anyway.
The only plausible justification for a general election when the leader of the party of government (and hence PM) changes is if the incoming leader has made it clear they will pursue a policy platform significantly different from that laid out in the manifesto under which the MPs of that party were elected. Of course, there's room to manoeuvre within precisely what is meant by "significantly different". But, you're also then into basically the same situation as a party being elected to government and then not doing what was in their manifesto which is usually remembered by voters come the next general election.
The only plausible justification for a general election when the leader of the party of government (and hence PM) changes is if the incoming leader has made it clear they will pursue a policy platform significantly different from that laid out in the manifesto under which the MPs of that party were elected. Of course, there's room to manoeuvre within precisely what is meant by "significantly different". But, you're also then into basically the same situation as a party being elected to government and then not doing what was in their manifesto which is usually remembered by voters come the next general election.
That's a point. During the 1984 Canadian election, the Conservative Mulroney declared himself opposed to free-trade with the USA("That issue was settled in 1911"), and then reversed himself after the Tories came to power. A free-trade agreement was signed in January of '88, but not put into effect until later that year, after a general election widely considered a referendum on the agreement.
Some people justified the "referendum" on the grounds that the deal was such an historical game-changer for Canada, but I think it was a combination of that AND the fact that Mulroney had been so vociferously anti-free trade in '83.
The only plausible justification for a general election when the leader of the party of government (and hence PM) changes is if the incoming leader has made it clear they will pursue a policy platform significantly different from that laid out in the manifesto under which the MPs of that party were elected. Of course, there's room to manoeuvre within precisely what is meant by "significantly different". But, you're also then into basically the same situation as a party being elected to government and then not doing what was in their manifesto which is usually remembered by voters come the next general election.
I suppose there’s also a level of changing your leader once between elections is not ideal - but once you start to do it repeatedly it’s harder to defend doing so without a general election. The last conservative government went through four and two of them were found guilty of breaking the law.
Just saw some Restore propaganda(non-moving) on YouTube, and it was openly and blatantly pro-American, saying "There's a lot we can learn from the Americans, such as...", attached to a giant image of an eagle hovering above some recognizable government building(can't recall which one, something resembling Congress or St. Paul's, IIRC).
I'm gonna guess this isn't helpful, except maybe for drawing positive attention from Donald J Trump or, possibly more cannily, JD Vance. Speaking as an outsider with probably an average-for-the-anglosphere degree of immersion in British culture of one sort or another, Farage has always seemed to me an apt cosplayer of certain archetypal chestnuts of English culture, which I won't go into now except to speculate that the American eagle doesn't quite fit the same bill.
And you do get Reform-type weirdos even higher up the candle - my local parish priest (under alternative oversight although oddly I don't think it's a Society member church) is Anglo-Catholic and apparently a regular talking head on GB News. The socially conservative strand of Anglo-Catholicism may be pretty small but it does exist.
From looking at the news and on YouTube, Nigel is not a happy bunny. This 5 million has led to much questioning from the media, even the BBC. He has been getting frustrated and annoyed. If he is found to have not acted correctly re the money he could get a suspension from parliament. If it is long enough there could be a call for a bye election (simplified for ease). It is likely he won’t be bothered with all that and quit.
From looking at the news and on YouTube, Nigel is not a happy bunny. This 5 million has led to much questioning from the media, even the BBC. He has been getting frustrated and annoyed. If he is found to have not acted correctly re the money he could get a suspension from parliament. If it is long enough there could be a call for a bye election (simplified for ease). It is likely he won’t be bothered with all that and quit.
Comments
Yes as I said there would be differences. They are all right wing so there would be things in common. Reform are medium far right. They say they want nothing to do with Tommy Robinson and are to the left (slightly) of Restore.
From what I can tell AFD are more right wing than Reform but they are all fairly far right.
Several commentators are saying the right could eat itself. Restore could take a good number of votes from Reform in the up coming bye-election. That means Labour have a good chance of getting in and Burnham will make his leadership bid. Let Reform and Restore fight it out and damage each other in the public eye.
I really don’t think many people realise how nasty things are inside the right wing parties.
And the Labour Party. Labour's response to the far right England flag littering campaign was for Yvette Cooper to pretend she hangs them too. Starmer's response to losing a by election that the right accused of being hijacked by Islamists was to blame sectarianism.
And that in turn led to disillusioned Labour voters turning to the Libdems and increasingly the Greens. It looks like the latter two parties will soft pedal the Makerfield by-election and possibly even direct their supporters to vote Labour (even if they have to hold their noses) to ensure Reform are beaten.
You mean he was blaming alleged Muslim sectarianism for the defeat?
He wasn't specific, but that was the implication that might be drawn, yes.
Thanks.
I wonder if "sectarianism" is a common term(possibly as a dog-whistle) in the UK in reference to alleged Muslim extremism. Ulster-style sectarianism played a significant role in Canadian history, but these days I doubt 1 in 10 Canadians would recognize the relevance of the word in regards to their history, and I don't think I've often heard it used in reference to the influence of non-Christian religions on general politics.
It’s exactly what one would expect, and I believe he’s just playing to his evil choir. My view is that the police are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. They made an arrest of a dying man after the murderer alleged racism. I don’t think the Hampshire Police got everything right, but Farage’s call for “Pure, Cold Rage” having noted the dignified response of the victims family, shows is nastier than I stated a few days ago. He isn’t a reactionary Tory, he’s a political racist, just a uniform short of Mosley.
He is truly the reproductive tract of a hirsute pachyderm.
The dead man’s family expressly asked that their son’s death not be used to cause unrest etc. Farage kind of eluded to this but said others should be enraged. Cold hard rage
I don't wish to discuss the specifics of this particular case, because a) I don't have all the details; b) the matter will soon be before the courts; and c) the Ship's mods are sensitive to libel law.
That said, as a general rule, in cases of alleged police wrongdoing, I don't think the victim's family should get the last word as to how the public or politicians react, because the family are not the only stakeholders.
Further reading on the case indicates that Digwa has already been convicted and sentenced. Basic point still stands, because the case is still under investigation by the relevant legal bodies.
This isn’t new. Back in 2025 a Reform candidate described Jimmy Savile as an “innocent man” (presumably on the basis that he had never actually been convicted) and a “working class hero”.
I still wouldn’t be surprised if Reform wins the seat but that would only confirm to me the way in which the rich and powerful have manipulated public opinion using the news
From what I have seen they have changed it and are claiming it was doctored
Except it wasn't doctored - and there are several different photos featuring the same poster.
If it was doctored, then why have they changed it? Have I failed to identify the correct “they”.
Yes I saw that too. We shall see tomorrow if it affected the bye election today
3 by-elections, and in none were Reform close to winning. If they were genuinely likely to form the next government you'd expect them to be winning by-elections handily. It's becoming clear that their vote has a hard ceiling; they're unlikely to be the beneficiaries (and very likely to the targets) of tactical votes, because the Restore types think they're pinko liberals and everyone else thinks they're fascists.
Let us hope so. In years to come it should be fun watching the rats who deserted the sinking ship trying to desert back onto the ship from whence they came.
I can but pray that, seeing his support fading, that Farage will overreach himself and finally some - preferably vast quantities of - shit will stick to his thus far Teflon exterior.
I don’t know he has Teflon exterior. I think some voters don’t care what he is covered in
There appear to be mischievous players who quite like the stirring-up capabilities of Reform, its previous existence and potential spin-offs. The more politically confused some sectors of the population become, the greater the further destabilisation of political life in the UK.
Politics and politicians haven’t helped themselves or us by employing “spin” advisers and the like. News management easily degenerates into manipulation of truth.
I think it was Sir Humphrey who used the phase “moral malleability” to characterise politicians. That’s the danger of putting popularity ahead of facing hard realities.
One right-winger I semi-follow linked to an RT video of police in Rotherham trading fisticuffs with some teenaged girls dressed in fancy party dress. The claim was that this proves the police are at war with "the white working-class", but it's really hard to discern anyone's motivation from the video. It all looked rather farcical to me, though I hope no one was seriously hurt.
Kruger's book, 'Covenant' is about to be republished. There's a hint he quotes Roger Scruton a lot. As I said, scary. Has any shipmate read Kruger's book or know more about him? How can he, as a Christian, align himself with the likes of Farage?
Per election rules we don't get another vote in either case, of course, but Mr F seems to be unaware of this and also how dim it makes him appear to sensible people.
He's well aware but doesn't care (and in fairness it seems like most politicians are wildly hypocritical on this, including Burnham), and Farage hasn't got this far in politics by appealing to sensible people. His entire brand is stoking the rage of the non-sensible, or possibly the insensible.
Because his political commitments are largely what's real, and the Christian part is more or less lip service. You get much the same vibe from the speakers at the Arc conference which is currently going on. Watched Paul Marshall speak yesterday, and about 10% of his speech his eminently sensible - and belied by the politicians he's chosen to invite (Farage and the rougher end of the Conservative and Republican parties) and the rest of what he says.
My impression though is that some 'God TV', GBNews viewing evangelicals are drawn towards some of this stuff but they aren't necessarily representative of their congregations as a whole.
Evangelicalism is no more monolithic than any other Christian tradition and you'll find a range of views in the pews.
These days, it seems to me, the 'glue' that holds many evangelical congregations together is a penchant for a common 'charismatic lite' worship style and an increasingly TV chat show format irrespective of what the political or ideological views individual participants might have.
The same is true at the upper end of the candle where there is a commitment to sacramental forms of worship irrespective of what the participants' views are on political or Epiphanous issues.
I don't see mass evangelical support for Farage or - heaven help us, Lowe - but there are certainly pockets of support for both out there.
What I don't think we'll see here is a parallel to the situation in the US where the majority of evangelicals voted for Trump.
But we will see particular pastors and congregations nailing their colours to that mast.
Most evangelicals I come across are very opposed to Reform and Restore and are annoyed at them trying to co-opt Christian imagery and rhetoric.
I can think of some who are well up for Reform or Restore though, but I don’t think they represent a majority view.
Yes some are as you say leaning towards Reform/Restore. The rest of us cannot understand how they can follow Jesus and vote for Reform/Restore. They are free to do so but it is illogical.
I find it ironic that Reform supporters should be refugees 😉
And secondly, there's probably a fringe of people attracted to authoritarian personality types.
I'm not sure that's odd at all. Once you've decided that the entire scientific community can be fundamentally wrong about something it's easy to decide they're wrong about something else. Creationists are easily led into climate change denial (especially if they're on the political right which views renewable energy sources and active travel as lefty hippy shit) and Climate change denialists are IME also easily led into Covid denialism, 5G bollocks, chemtrails and sometimes right down the rabbit hole into NWO Illuminati depopulation plots.
We've got people with those kind of views among our 'enquirers' and recent converts, which is worrying, but you'll find a range of political views across our regular attenders from the left of the Labour Party through centrist to some way out on the right ...
I've heard that in the US Orthodox parishes are dividing along political lines - some are entirely made up of Democrat voters, others Republican. It's become very polarised.
I don't want to see that happen here but the way Reform and Restore are trying to play the 'traditional Christian values' card does worry me a great deal.
Yeah perhaps that was the wrong word (I meant odd in the occasional rather than strange sense). The mechanisms are obvious, it’s just seems rare that knowing something about someone’s religious beliefs maps so directly to knowing their likely view on something so ostensibly non religious (I’ve met people who view climate change in conservative biblical terms, but it seems a minority sport).
He’s merely echoing those in Labour who said the same thing every time the Tories changed leader between elections over the last decade. I’m pretty sure I remember quite a few here saying similar stuff as well.
Partisan complaining about a new PM chosen between elections supposedly lacking legitimacy is one of the standard hypocrisies of Westminster politics. It's also an outta-place imposition of presidential criteria on a parliamentary system, because even with an election, you're not voting for a prime minister anyway.
That's a point. During the 1984 Canadian election, the Conservative Mulroney declared himself opposed to free-trade with the USA("That issue was settled in 1911"), and then reversed himself after the Tories came to power. A free-trade agreement was signed in January of '88, but not put into effect until later that year, after a general election widely considered a referendum on the agreement.
Some people justified the "referendum" on the grounds that the deal was such an historical game-changer for Canada, but I think it was a combination of that AND the fact that Mulroney had been so vociferously anti-free trade in '83.
I suppose there’s also a level of changing your leader once between elections is not ideal - but once you start to do it repeatedly it’s harder to defend doing so without a general election. The last conservative government went through four and two of them were found guilty of breaking the law.
I'm gonna guess this isn't helpful, except maybe for drawing positive attention from Donald J Trump or, possibly more cannily, JD Vance. Speaking as an outsider with probably an average-for-the-anglosphere degree of immersion in British culture of one sort or another, Farage has always seemed to me an apt cosplayer of certain archetypal chestnuts of English culture, which I won't go into now except to speculate that the American eagle doesn't quite fit the same bill.
My heart bleeds for the poor love.
Honest.