Are The Reform Party Actually a Threat

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  • The fundamental problem, as shown in the absolute shitshow over Brexit - is that a lot of things in how the UK parliament operates are governed by conventions, not laws. So when someone decides not to be “a good chap” and follow them, you have little enforceable recourse. Good luck finding anything set down about the UK government/chancellor ensures no conflict with the duties of being de facto chancellor/government of England when the rest of the nations are devolved. The reason the English didn’t vote for devolution when it was offered, is basically because English nationalists forget about the other nations and assume that England = Britains. See also the shitshow over Brexit.

    There’s been some movement now the problem has become impossible to ignore, recall petitions for sanctioned MPs are a relatively new thing for example.

    I think you have a point about some of the ministers in government in Westminster but not really about the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I don't think there are many situations where the CotE acts as an English minister unlike, for example, the Sports or Health minister.
  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    It’s simple to break the aspects a debate in this way, but it doesn’t provide much help about opposing Farage (or Trump for that matter). I suppose you have to start with character flaws, such as the reluctance of Farage to do anything for his constituents while earning millions on speaking tours. Grift is the basis of his venality, but it’s best not to call it that. Unlike Trump (and Boris Johnson) he has been broadly sexually continent despite the mandatory misogyny of Reform.
    The fundamental problem, as shown in the absolute shitshow over Brexit - is that a lot of things in how the UK parliament operates are governed by conventions, not laws. So when someone decides not to be “a good chap” and follow them, you have little enforceable recourse. Good luck finding anything set down about the UK government/chancellor ensures no conflict with the duties of being de facto chancellor/government of England when the rest of the nations are devolved. The reason the English didn’t vote for devolution when it was offered, is basically because English nationalists forget about the other nations and assume that England = Britains. See also the shitshow over Brexit.

    There’s been some movement now the problem has become impossible to ignore, recall petitions for sanctioned MPs are a relatively new thing for example.

    I best guide we have (which isn’t the best possible IMHO) is “Erskine May”, the manual of Parliamentary Procedure. It’s continually being updated such as following Brexit.
  • The reason the English didn’t vote for devolution when it was offered, is basically because English nationalists forget about the other nations and assume that England = Britains.

    I don't know that it's possible to say this when devolution for England was never on offer. The Blair government created the system of regional assemblies-- which were wholly appointed by local government, accompanying regional development authorities and then ran out of steam when the referendum for an elected regional assembly in the North East failed.

    It was never very clear what powers would be permanently devolved if any, and people appear to have voted against an additional layer of government rather than anything else.
  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    My post upthread included part of an incomplete post: please ignore it.
    The fundamental problem, as shown in the absolute shitshow over Brexit - is that a lot of things in how the UK parliament operates are governed by conventions, not laws. So when someone decides not to be “a good chap” and follow them, you have little enforceable recourse. Good luck finding anything set down about the UK government/chancellor ensures no conflict with the duties of being de facto chancellor/government of England when the rest of the nations are devolved. The reason the English didn’t vote for devolution when it was offered, is basically because English nationalists forget about the other nations and assume that England = Britains. See also the shitshow over Brexit.

    There’s been some movement now the problem has become impossible to ignore, recall petitions for sanctioned MPs are a relatively new thing for example.

    I best guide we have (which isn’t the best possible IMHO) is “Erskine May”, the manual of Parliamentary Procedure. It’s continually being updated such as following Brexit.


  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Just to mention that Reform don't seem much of a threat in Wandsworth. For those who missed the by-election result from their, their candidate came last with 51 votes.
  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    Just to mention that Reform don't seem much of a threat in Wandsworth. For those who missed the by-election result from their, their candidate came last with 51 votes.

    Just to add that the Conservative candidate put up a strong showing, which may or may not be a good thing.

  • sionisais wrote: »
    Just to mention that Reform don't seem much of a threat in Wandsworth. For those who missed the by-election result from their, their candidate came last with 51 votes.

    Just to add that the Conservative candidate put up a strong showing, which may or may not be a good thing.

    Interesting that the Tory appeared to stand under a "local conservative" banner

    https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/the-council/elections-voting-and-registration/elections-and-referendums/trinity-ward-by-election/
  • Presumably to distance himself from the increasingly irrelevance of the mainstream tory party as a whole?
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Presumably to distance himself from the increasingly irrelevance of the mainstream tory party as a whole?

    It's a common local govt strategy for Tories, perhaps noticing how variable Lib Dems can be in councils.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    The Green Party won a council seat in Dover because the right wing vote was split. Hopefully this trend will continue.

    The Restore Party, for when Reform just isn’t quite racist enough.

  • I suppose it is at least possible that Reform will do some sort of deal with Restore, so that these splits don't occur.
    :scream:
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I suppose it is at least possible that Reform will do some sort of deal with Restore, so that these splits don't occur.
    :scream:

    Not a chance, fortunately. The loathing the appropriately named Lowe has for Reform knows no bounds.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    There's only room for one ego in Nigel's party.
  • Jane R wrote: »
    There's only room for one ego in Nigel's party.

    We have to rely on egos for continued splits and defections. It seems to be a feature of extreme and fringe parties.

  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    sionisais wrote: »
    Jane R wrote: »
    There's only room for one ego in Nigel's party.

    We have to rely on egos for continued splits and defections. It seems to be a feature of extreme and fringe parties.

    Mostly on the right. The far left primarily fall out over ideology, like whether it's ok to send in tanks to protect the People's Soviet (TM).
  • Has anyone watched Channel 4 News this evening? They claim exclusive coverage for a story about undercover footage which appears to show Orr and others engaged in dodgy dealing and Farage accepting a donation from an actor posing as a US donor.

    Sir Ed Davey was interviewed saying that the Lib Dems are reporting Reform to the Electoral Commission and to the police.

    Channel 4 claim that the SNP and Labour are doing likewise.

    An interesting and significant development or a non-story aimed at getting an exclusive?
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Has anyone watched Channel 4 News this evening? They claim exclusive coverage for a story about undercover footage which appears to show Orr and others engaged in dodgy dealing and Farage accepting a donation from an actor posing as a US donor.

    Sir Ed Davey was interviewed saying that the Lib Dems are reporting Reform to the Electoral Commission and to the police.

    Channel 4 claim that the SNP and Labour are doing likewise.

    An interesting and significant development or a non-story aimed at getting an exclusive?

    Do you actually see the footage in the reporting?
  • Interestingly the story that Reform got as a result of the donation for polling is no longer on the Telegraph website.
  • SipechSipech Shipmate
    You can watch the report and footage on YouTube. It's pretty damning.
    https://youtu.be/aXut3s90rUI?is=ShfWWlsQ8prMW5sW
  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    You do indeed see some of it in the C4 YouTube video embedded in the blog about it

    https://channel4news.substack.com/p/exclusive-nigel-farage-filmed-undercover
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Sipech wrote: »
    You can watch the report and footage on YouTube. It's pretty damning.
    https://youtu.be/aXut3s90rUI?is=ShfWWlsQ8prMW5sW

    Louise wrote: »
    You do indeed see some of it in the C4 YouTube video embedded in the blog about it

    https://channel4news.substack.com/p/exclusive-nigel-farage-filmed-undercover

    Thanks.
  • Reform maintain, of course, that there has been no wrongdoing.

    Farage himself seems conspicuous by his absence, though AIUI the party conference is due - no doubt he will then emerge from seclusion, and Address The Nation.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Reform maintain, of course, that there has been no wrongdoing.

    Farage himself seems conspicuous by his absence, though AIUI the party conference is due - no doubt he will then emerge from seclusion, and Address The Nation.

    He is not likely to address the people directly, but through his speech to the party faithful. The funding issue could really be a problem
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    I think farage will give up.

    I reckon it will be a "health scare". One that interestingly never needs biopsies or an overnight stay in hospital, but is concerning enough to his fanboys that they give him their blessing in his forced retirement.

    Then he'll be off to the US.

    Watch it happen.
  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    edited September 4
    The newspapers have so far done a poor job.
    Writer Lee Hurley who normally monitors their rancid anti- trans propaganda had a look this morning

    The Farage sting is not on the front pages of:

    The Times
    Belfast Telegraph
    Daily Express
    Daily Mail
    Mirror
    Star
    Metro
    Morning Star
    Telegraph
    Guardian
    Herald
    i
    Independent
    The Journal
    The National
    The Scotsman

    The story didn't break too late for them - they could easily have got stuff on front pages. Some have got stuff inside but this isn't being splashed as much as it ought to be.

    By the way one of the people allegedly enthusiastically suggesting crimes in the video is a Cambridge academic, an associate Professor in Divinity who teaches students ethics. Cambridge was just forced to stump up a £5000 refund to a PhD student because he was found to have bullied her.

    Since allegedly plagiarising is a death sentence to be covered by all newspapers and telly- what on earth will they do to him? Oh wait - he's a white bloke. I'll be pleasantly surprised if anything happens.
  • And for balance here is the leader of the Reform party. Mr Farage, which way is up and perhaps you could comment on whether white is actually white.

    Farage: no no no. Up is exactly in the direction I say it is. Rules of gravity are what I say they are because I am the only authority on the British Political Establishment. Me and only me.

    White does not exist, it is clearly several lighter shades of grey as any fool could see if they were not part of the fake news agenda.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Louise wrote: »
    By the way one of the people allegedly enthusiastically suggesting crimes in the video is a Cambridge academic, an associate Professor in Divinity who teaches students ethics. Cambridge was just forced to stump up a £5000 refund to a PhD student because he was found to have bullied her.

    Since allegedly plagiarising is a death sentence to be covered by all newspapers and telly- what on earth will they do to him? Oh wait - he's a white bloke. I'll be pleasantly surprised if anything happens.
    He's also been implicated as part of the group who kept pushing questions about Jason Arday's academic qualifications and history, leading ultimately to his death. And, he owns a large property outside Cambridge where he provides accommodation for students (potentially in breach of the university's safeguarding rules) in what he describes as a "compound", as well as hosting various far-right people from the US. As a self-professed Christian with an academic speciality in ethics he seems to be trying his hardest to bring Christianity into disrepute, and/or conducting research into ethics by exploring unethical behaviour.
  • 'The Sting' is featuring prominently in the Guardian's live blog this afternoon. Doubtless there is more to come...hopefully, as @Boogie suggests, the departure of the odious Farage (though I think the US has enough to put up with already).

    I wonder if Count Binface has commented on this matter yet?
    :naughty:
  • Louise wrote: »
    By the way one of the people allegedly enthusiastically suggesting crimes in the video is a Cambridge academic, an associate Professor in Divinity who teaches students ethics. Cambridge was just forced to stump up a £5000 refund to a PhD student because he was found to have bullied her.

    He's the subject of a fairly long magazine article in the FT, some of which re-treads the bylinetimes piece of a few weeks ago. They cover a number of things including the unusual living arrangements of the students he supervises. Some extracts here:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rhyskamjones.bsky.social/post/3muojoyoqps2w
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    Our MP and contender to lead Reform if they do defenestrate Farage is proudly boasting on Facebook that Farage and Jordan Bardella of France have signed an agreement to return migrants to France. As neither of them are actually in power this is a totally meaningless bit of theatre, but I guess it'll keep their followers happy.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    Richard Trice this morning was trying to divert attention away from Reform's conduct by asserting that Channel 4 committed "entrapment."

    There is no such offence in UK law.
  • Boogie wrote: »
    Richard Trice this morning was trying to divert attention away from Reform's conduct by asserting that Channel 4 committed "entrapment."

    And it arguably wasn't entrapment anyway.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    edited September 4
    Sarasa wrote: »
    Our MP and contender to lead Reform if they do defenestrate Farage is proudly boasting on Facebook that Farage and Jordan Bardella of France have signed an agreement to return migrants to France.
    I don't think Reform can defenestrate Farage, as I believe Farage wholly owns it.

  • Dafyd wrote: »
    Sarasa wrote: »
    Our MP and contender to lead Reform if they do defenestrate Farage is proudly boasting on Facebook that Farage and Jordan Bardella of France have signed an agreement to return migrants to France.
    I don't think Reform can defenestrate Farage, as I believe Farage wholly owns it.

    They've changed structure since then, but Farage still remains in control:

    https://bylinetimes.com/2026/08/18/chairman-farage-how-reform-uk-operates-as-a-democratic-party-in-name-only/
  • SipechSipech Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    Richard Trice this morning was trying to divert attention away from Reform's conduct by asserting that Channel 4 committed "entrapment."

    And it arguably wasn't entrapment anyway.

    The report was always quite clear that the suggestions of wrongdoing almost always came from the Reform staffers and that the undercover journalists merely agreed to what was suggested.

    Where there may be a criminal case to answer was section where names where bleeped out where the Reform staff were citing prior incidents of UK based people funnelling overseas money to them.
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    @Louise there's also unsurprisingly tons of links being talked about on bsky between Dodgy Cambridge Types and the trans healthcare crises being discussed in Epiphanies.
  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    Yup. The polling firm involved seems to have done some dodgy polls on Epiphanies issues too.
  • Sipech wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    Richard Trice this morning was trying to divert attention away from Reform's conduct by asserting that Channel 4 committed "entrapment."

    And it arguably wasn't entrapment anyway.

    The report was always quite clear that the suggestions of wrongdoing almost always came from the Reform staffers and that the undercover journalists merely agreed to what was suggested.

    Where there may be a criminal case to answer was section where names where bleeped out where the Reform staff were citing prior incidents of UK based people funnelling overseas money to them.

    Farage has said that the reason Channel 4 beeped the names out of the film is because they know there's no case to answer.

    I'd have thought it was simple common sense for them to do so in order not to prejudice any judicial investigation should one result from this episode.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    edited September 5
    Well yes, but so many of Farage's cult don't think... and would probably prefer to continue believing that it's all an establishment plot.
  • If Farage ever, through some ghastly cataclysm, does become Prime Minister, is he likely to actually do any work ?
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    Our local Reform MP has published a 'resignation' letter on Facebook. Basically he's saying if he hasn't sorted out the small boats issue in the first 100 days of a Reform government he'll resign. No one seems to be particularly impressed with the offer.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited September 5
    Sarasa wrote: »
    Our local Reform MP has published a 'resignation' letter on Facebook. Basically he's saying if he hasn't sorted out the small boats issue in the first 100 days of a Reform government he'll resign. No one seems to be particularly impressed with the offer.

    You mean they're unimpressed because they support stopping the small boats, but don't trust him to do what he promises to do and resign if Reform fails to stop them?
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    No, their unimpressed as it is unlikely that Reform actually form the next government and if they do, given the chaos of their conference it's unlikely that they'll manage to do anything let alone sort out immigration. It's a total bit of performance art.
  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    The man who thuggishly attacked a woman protester at the Reform conference appears to have been identified. He did it with his lanyard badge with his name on it round his neck which was photographed. It'll be interesting to see if the police do anything.
  • The lady concerned could press charges, I guess.

    The incident shows once again how very dim Reform supporters can be...
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    The lady concerned could press charges, I guess.

    This is not a thing in English law. The police and CPS decide whether a prosecution should go ahead. Usually they won't if the victim is not co-operative and it makes conviction difficult, but there's no "pressing charges" concept for victims.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    The lady concerned could press charges, I guess.

    This is not a thing in English law. The police and CPS decide whether a prosecution should go ahead. Usually they won't if the victim is not co-operative and it makes conviction difficult, but there's no "pressing charges" concept for victims.

    Could the victim sue the assailant for I) physical damages and ii) exemplary damages? I’m sure she could get some backers and probably a friendly lawyer.

    IANAL.

  • No exemplary damages. Not sure about the other element.
  • Shame. I’d like to make an example, even if only nominal.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited September 6
    sionisais wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    The lady concerned could press charges, I guess.

    This is not a thing in English law. The police and CPS decide whether a prosecution should go ahead. Usually they won't if the victim is not co-operative and it makes conviction difficult, but there's no "pressing charges" concept for victims.

    Could the victim sue the assailant for I) physical damages and ii) exemplary damages? I’m sure she could get some backers and probably a friendly lawyer.

    IANAL.

    Yes to physical. That's under civil law which is a completely different animal.
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