Fucking Guns

15455575960

Comments

  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    edited May 2023
    It seems to me that the word 'invasion' on its own could be pejorative and misdescribe the situation to the detriment of asylum seekers, or even to the detriment of "economic migrants", in ways other than dehumanising them.
    Nevertheless, when it accompanies the word "flood" it is part of a pattern the cumulative effect of which is dehumanising.

    Regardless, there is a thread for serious discussion of these matters in Epiphanies. Dafyd Hell Host
  • ...Recently I read an interview with the guy in the States who started the catalogue of mass shootings, relating how when he started he saw each of those victims was an individual, he learnt their names and ages, who they left behind to grieve. He wanted to give the public more than a series of numbers of people killed and injured by guns, he wanted to give the public the humanity of each of those victims. He went on to say that he just can't do that any more, much as he would want to the task is just emotionally too much. He has an ever changing team of people help compile the data, and it changes because each of them eventually reaches the point where they lose the humanity of the victims, and they find that the task of compiling data dehumanises them in their eyes, they become just numbers to enter into the database. It was a deeply moving interview, I wish I could remember where it was I read it.
    I read it too:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65305145

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    The Texas mass shooting this past weekend was horrendous. The more I hear about the shooter, the more I have to ask why. He was discharged from the Army after three months of service for being unfit. (Probably a general discharge). Yet he becomes a certified security officer. He posted several threats on Russian social media that he was going to shoot up a mall, and he was known to have cased the mall about a month before the shooting. He had a number of Nazi tattoos on his body. He wore a shirt with the acronym: RWDS (Right Wing Death Squad) on it. This acronym was also on a number of the uniforms worn by the Proud Boys who were arrested after the revolt on the Federal Capital.

    And this article appeared on the Forbes website yesterday. Of note were these statistics.
    • Texas has had 17 mass shootings in 2023. The national average* is 4.04.
    • Texas has had 214 gun violence deaths in 2023. The national average is 296.2.
    • Texas has had three mass murders in 2023. The national average is 0.42.
    • There have been 13 children aged zero to 11 killed in Texas in 2023. The national average is 1.83.
    • There have been 56 teens aged 12 to 17 killed in Texas in 2023. The national average is 10.52.

    * per state, I assume.

    Only California has had more mass shootings than Texas.

    And then there is Govenor Abbot, who continues to say it is not about the guns. It is about mental health. Yet his state continues to cut mental health funding. Republicans just passed a bill that allows known mental health patients to purchase firearms as well.

    Another depressing thought. Texas has a law that requires 13 year olds to know how to give first aid to gunshot victims. The legislature has just proposed a bill that could require students as young as eight years old to go through training that will teach them how to render aid during a traumatic event, such as a school shooting. House Bill 1147 looks to alter the age for those who can use ‘bleeding control stations’ in Texas schools. (see this)

    Fucking Guns. You need a bat to hit a homerun. Substitute gun for bat and you know what for homerun.
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    A 14 year-old was shot in the head (she's recovering) over the weekend. She was among a group of kids playing hide-&-seek in her neighborhood. These kind of shoot-first tragedies are only going to increase in a country where at least half of its citizenry are armed to the teeth and certifiably paranoid.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited May 2023
    The_Riv wrote: »
    A 14 year-old was shot in the head (she's recovering) over the weekend. She was among a group of kids playing hide-&-seek in her neighborhood. These kind of shoot-first tragedies are only going to increase in a country where at least half of its citizenry are armed to the teeth and certifiably paranoid.
    When Doyle went back outside, he saw "people running away from his property, at which time he began shooting at them and unknowingly hit the girl," the sheriff's office said.

    He shot at people running away. They posed no threat. He had no idea who they were. But he tried to kill them anyway.

    I know you Americans really hate the C word but it's the only one that springs to mind to this Brit to describe this sort of individual. And even then it needs "complete and utter" in front of it.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    If simply appearing with a gun causes someone to run away then it's served it's purpose of protecting life from a potential threat. There's no need at that point to actually fire the gun.

    That's why Tony Martin was convicted of murder, the two burglars who had broken into his home were climbing out the window to flee and hence posed no threat. That's shooting criminals, how much more is it unacceptable to shoot kids playing outside?
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    @Gramps49 California has fairly comprehensive gun laws, it's just also a huge state which also has a large population density despite its size. Same goes for Texas. They are pretty much always going to beat out a Montana for eg even though I'd be willing to bet that most people in Montana own firearms, to a greater extent than even Texas (given that Texas does have blue-leaning cities like Austin, and Montana does not).
  • ...Recently I read an interview with the guy in the States who started the catalogue of mass shootings, relating how when he started he saw each of those victims was an individual, he learnt their names and ages, who they left behind to grieve. He wanted to give the public more than a series of numbers of people killed and injured by guns, he wanted to give the public the humanity of each of those victims. He went on to say that he just can't do that any more, much as he would want to the task is just emotionally too much. He has an ever changing team of people help compile the data, and it changes because each of them eventually reaches the point where they lose the humanity of the victims, and they find that the task of compiling data dehumanises them in their eyes, they become just numbers to enter into the database. It was a deeply moving interview, I wish I could remember where it was I read it.
    I read it too:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65305145
    @Alan Cresswell
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    edited May 2023
    When Doyle went back outside, he saw "people running away from his property, at which time he began shooting at them and unknowingly hit the girl," the sheriff's office said.

    He shot at people running away. They posed no threat. He had no idea who they were. But he tried to kill them anyway.

    I know you Americans really hate the C word but it's the only one that springs to mind to this Brit to describe this sort of individual. And even then it needs "complete and utter" in front of it.

    Well, I'm as anti-gun as they come, and I'm barely hanging on at 50/50 as to whether or not we should try to move abroad for the closing chapters of our lives. No place is perfect, but most others aren't overly influenced by a gun cult.
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    Lots of countries have high levels of gun ownership but low levels of gun crime, for example Norway and Finland. It's not the guns themselves.
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    Norway, it seems, has strict, comprehensive firearms regulations. Finland not quite as much, but both countries are head and shoulders above what we have over here, which is increasingly nearly none at all (see: Missouri). The US has more than one gun per breathing person over here, infants included. We're inundated.
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    Legislation to make the AR-15 the official firearm of the USA was introduced in February of this year by some of the right-wing's most virulent culture warriors. The AR-15 is ubiquitous here, and seemingly the weapon of choice for US mass shooters.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    The_Riv wrote: »
    Legislation to make the AR-15 the official firearm of the USA was introduced in February of this year by some of the right-wing's most virulent culture warriors.
    Though worth noting that the bill has been sitting in committee since it was introduced, and I’ll be surprised if it even gets a hearing in committee.

    But still, it’s dumbfounding.

  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    It's a dog whistle that's already been blown, so it's served its purpose. That, along with the GOP's AR-15 lapel pins. It's a freakish piety and party alignment via an assault weapon.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited May 2023
    The_Riv wrote: »
    It's a dog whistle that's already been blown, so it's served its purpose. That, along with the GOP's AR-15 lapel pins. It's a freakish piety and party alignment via an assault weapon.
    True enough, and quite disturbing enough.

  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    The_Riv wrote: »
    Norway, it seems, has strict, comprehensive firearms regulations. Finland not quite as much, but both countries are head and shoulders above what we have over here, which is increasingly nearly none at all (see: Missouri). The US has more than one gun per breathing person over here, infants included. We're inundated.

    I understand that, but my point is that clearly it's not just owning guns that makes it this way since even with regulations people still own plenty of guns in Norway and Finland. The difference is a different gun culture, not just the existence of gun ownership.

    I have no issue with responsible gun ownership (though I have no interest in owning one myself), and guns themselves are simply tools. The issue is that for most people and certainly any civilian, an AR-15 is a totally unnecessary tool to have. You should have to prove why you need xyz type of gun before you can buy one.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Two mass shootings happened in my neck of the woods happened this weekend. First reported was a mass shooting in a place called The Gorge, which is a natural amphitheater on the Columbia River, about halfway between Spokane and Seattle. They were having an Electronic Dance Festival there. Suddenly someone started shooting randomly in a campground. Two people killed. They did not list the number injured.

    Then Sunday night there was a mass murder in Kellog Idaho, about an hour east of Spokane. Four people were killed.

    In other news. Gov. Newsom of California wants to have a Constitutional amendment passed that would:

    Raise the federal minimum age to purchase a firearm from 18 to 21;

    Mandate universal background checks to prevent truly dangerous people from purchasing a gun that could be used in a crime;

    Institute a reasonable waiting period for all gun purchases; and

    Bar civilian purchase of assault weapons that serve no other purpose than to kill as many people as possible in a short amount of time – weapons of war our nation’s founders never foresaw.

    Frankly, that amendment will have as much as a snowball's chance in hell passing.
  • Resurrecting this old thread.

    Horrible shooting in Lewiston, Maine. 55 people killed. Up to 60 wounded. Suspect still on the run.

    Wife asked why do these people have these type of guns. It is an assault rifle. I asked if she has ever heard of the Supreme Court.
  • Correction. At least 22 killed.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    The reports I'm reading say the authorities aren't giving a number, but that at least 20 are dead and a manhunt is on for the killer. My sister-in-law has let me know that her family members are safe, but one of the shooting sites is across the street from her brother's office.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    The governor is saying this morning 18 people dead, 13 injured. The area is locked down, people are advised to stay home, schools and businesses are closed, and they're still looking for the shooter.
  • Latest news from CNN. Last night CNN was reporting 22 killed. Governor this morning said 18 were killed. Must have been a miscount last night. Corrected this morning.
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Latest news from CNN. Last night CNN was reporting 22 killed. Governor this morning said 18 were killed. Must have been a miscount last night. Corrected this morning.

    Well, that's a relief, I must say.
    [ / sarcasm ]
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    If 18 are dead, why is the alleged shooter only facing arrest for 8 counts of murder? Do the other 10 not count? :confused:
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Because only 8 have been identified so far.
  • ArielAriel Shipmate
    OK. Why does anyone need an assault rifle at home?
  • They don’t.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    WE awoke to a story this morning that felt very close to home living next door in New Brunswick. It was the lead story on the 6 am CBC National radio news.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Ariel wrote: »
    OK. Why does anyone need an assault rifle at home?
    Small dicks? Small brains? Hard to say.
  • They get off on them. There is no legit reason.
  • ArielAriel Shipmate
    edited October 2023
    NicoleMR wrote: »
    They get off on them. There is no legit reason.

    That can be the only reason.
  • It is my understanding the shooter had an assault weapon that is not sold on the civilian market. He is an army reservist whose actual duty is in transportation, but the thought is he pilfered it from the armory.

    He had reported he was having mental health issues sometime ago, and by law, should of have turned over any and all weapons to law enforcement. Sounds like law enforcement did not search his property for any unauthorized weapons.
  • Regards, the mental health issue. The shooter is a Sargant First Class in the Army Reserves. Normally, he is s fueling specialist in the reserves. But this summer he took a weapons training course at West Point. Mid way through, he started acting erratically, claiming he was hearing voices telling him to shoot up a Reserve base in Maine. The Army committed him to a mental health hospital. After a couple of weeks, he was released from the hospital.

    I would presume he was stabilized on medication.

    He had a girlfriend. Recently, she broke up with him, and he went on a rampage.

    I found out even though he apparently had a history of schizophrenia, Maine would not have required him to turn over his guns.

    While initially CNN reported the gun was military issue, current reports say it was a semi-automatic that he could have bought over the counter, but he did have a extended clip which might have been illegal.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    My sister-in-law's brother and her niece are still on lockdown in Maine. Chances are this guy is hiding out deep in the woods or he's killed himself, but people there don't feel safe.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited October 2023
    I would think not. I don’t know how they’re managing at this point.
  • ArielAriel Shipmate
    If still alive, he must be getting supplies from somewhere. They have to run out some time.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Ariel wrote: »
    If still alive, he must be getting supplies from somewhere. They have to run out some time.

    It depends whether this was planned. :(
  • The body of the shooter has been found.
  • ArielAriel Shipmate
    Ariel wrote: »
    If still alive, he must be getting supplies from somewhere. They have to run out some time.

    It depends whether this was planned. :(

    Exactly, he would have had to turn up at a shop at some point (and probably terrify everyone at gunpoint); but it's all over now.

    So, that's 35,490 people dead by gun violence in the US so far this year. So many lives needlessly wasted, so many families shattered and still there's a faction that won't budge on accepting tighter restraints; and 2023 isn't over yet.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    That’s getting on for ten times the death toll of the Gaza war.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    That’s getting on for ten times the death toll of the Gaza war.

    4-5 times, not that it invalidates your point.
  • ArielAriel Shipmate
    It's a much bigger area. Proportionally, it's considerably less; but it's still people.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Ariel wrote: »

    So, that's 35,490 people dead by gun violence in the US so far this year. So many lives needlessly wasted, so many families shattered and still there's a faction that won't budge on accepting tighter restraints; and 2023 isn't over yet.

    I appreciate the US constitutional right to bear arms, but there's no such right here. After a particularly bad episode, one along the lines referred to above (but not as bad) the various State governments passed legislation in effect barring possession of such weapons.
  • And not too bloody soon.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Sojourner wrote: »
    And not too bloody soon.

    Hard to understand why it took so long, but at least it's done.

  • Yep
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host
    Another mass shooting early this morning in Tampa (Ybor City). Two killed and either sixteen or eighteen injured. I'm not quite clear on that number.

    It was a dispute. Not a reason to kill people.

    This reminds me of my friend who was murdered earlier this year. A disagreement should not be a death sentence.

    I'm too angry to cry right now.



  • CBS interviewed a mother and 10 year old daughter involved in the Maine shooting. After the gunman left the building the daughter called her grandfather and said: "I am still alive, Papa."

    You could see the girl was still in a state of shock. It will likely affect her the rest of her life.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    How did many Lewisham residents respond?

    By buying a gun 😢

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67263059

  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    You mean Lewiston? Of course they bought guns. Every time something like this happens, some people buy guns because they feel like there's no other way to protect themselves and others buy guns because they're afraid politicians will actually tighten gun laws in reaction. Gun ownership as a percentage of the population has stayed pretty steady over the years, despite the gun-buying spree of the last few years -- people who already owned guns bought more. Gallup polling said 32% of Americans owned guns in 2020; Pew Research polling came up with the same percentage this year.
Sign In or Register to comment.