I have only heard it pronounced as 'semmet' Looking this up in a Scots dictionary it suggests that it may be linked to 'semat' a Roman tunic or else connected with 'samite' an English word for fine silk cloth.
The semmet was and still is an undervest.
My father used to say of two things or persons going well together
'they go together like semmet and drawers'
Oh, I've eaten them, from a corner shop I used to frequent. I always assumed Cypriot, sold retsina and taramasalata, plus an amazing bread, daktayla, which I haven't seen to buy since.
Are your midges mayflies? We have had clouds of them this year.
New topic: there is to be a Church of Scotland webinar next Friday (22nd) about the financial crisis in the Kirk which was bad enough without the lock-down. If anyone wants to know more, PM me and I can forward you the blurb that we have been sent. Things are pretty rocky.
Parishes in the Church of England are also finding the times difficult as regards £££, despite the fact that churches are, of course, spending much less on heating and lighting...
Those with stipendiary clergy (our chap is house-for-duty, so we only have to meet his reasonable expenses) are especially hard-hit.
Will the Kirk perhaps be forced to downsize (I hate that word, but YSWIM)?
(BTW - I appreciate that you've already said you might have to lose one of your own three churches...).
I have no idea, but presumably, if it were to apply in England, it would apply in Scotland as well.
I rather hope that, for churches in both countries (and Wales, and NI, for that matter) meeting the needs of their stipendiary clergy would be a first priority.
I have no idea, but presumably, if it were to apply in England, it would apply in Scotland as well.
Bear in mind we don't have an Established Church in the same way, and clergy may well be employed by their congregations...
I have a friend who had just been appointed to a charge but had not taken it up: they had handed in their notice to their former employer, and had to get themselves put back on their former employers books in order to be furloughed...
Two thoughts which certainly refer to Baptist ministers.
1. Technically we are not "employees" but "office holders".
2. We are still working so couldn't be furloughed anyway - obviously this might not be true of some in specialised posts.
FWIW we applied for furlough for our church Playgroup's staff and this went through with no problem. We are making up the extra 20% so they are still on full salary.
Clergy are not employees and so are not furloughed (and some of us are working very hard!), and so stipends are still being paid by the central church, but the monies for this from congregations are not coming in - and there was very little lee-way on it anyway. We are told that Presbytery planning will have to be rigorously enforced (which means when a presbytery tells the central committee how many ministers or other staff (who are all furloughed just now) it thinks it needs, and has to justify it in terms of mission and the national picture.) I see closures becoming more frequent and forced unions.
Of course if they would sell 121 George Street it would help at least for a while.
Sorry, just realised I have given you a parenthesis inside a parenthesis: hope you can find your way out of the maze.
Off to deliver a foodbank parcel. Sign of the times.
Our C of E church has furloughed cleaners, but administrator, children & families worker and youth worker remain working. We have committed to pay all staff their full salaries throughout the time church is closed.
Thanks @Cathscats - the situation actually sounds a bit like that of the C of E, inasmuch as clergy are paid by Moonbase Head Office, but there is less money coming into the coffers via the Parish Share (or whatever some Dioceses call it these days).
Anyway, a difficult situation, and I'm afraid you're likely to be right about closures and unions, on both sides of the Border.
The CofS sounds as if it is in a similar position to the United Reformed Church. It took the decision some years ago to reduce its ministers in line with the number of members. This sounded fine in principle but the number of congregations didn't decline at the same rate: though some have closed, others have just got smaller. This has led to fewer and fewer ministers being spread across more churches, and it's not working. Although stipends are paid centrally, Synods (= Presbyteries) do have their own funds too, often arising from the sales of redundant churches. Some Synods are broke, others are actually pretty well off and have helped some of the less well-off onesand/ or have put money into Pioneer Ministries and Fresh Expressions.
The Baptists are different in that most ministers are paid locally. The good side of this is that people are more likely to give if it seems relevant to them, rather than to "Head Office". The downside of course comes when a church is small, or in a deprived area, or bankrolled by just one or two people, or when there's a falling-out with the minister. Some churches in missional situations are supported by denominational funds, and other funds have been made available to help churches which are struggling in the Covid crisis - but there's not a great deal in the kitty. In my own church quite a number of folk give by standing order or direct debit; nevertheless our income for the calendar year is down by £2200 and we haven't been able to hold a couple of our usual fund-raising events either.
We're one of those small URC congregations, a congregation in a pastorate of three congregations. At present (well, before March) our income is sufficient to cover our share of the ministry costs, maintain the building (which costs very little as it's a relatively new building) and we collect a decent amount for support of charities. Though, we also have a very large number of older people (but, also 20% of our congregation is under the age of 18*) so we recognise that that situation isn't going to last forever and have been considering options (merging with the nearest congregation in our pastorate). I'm the church secretary rather than treasurer so I don't know how finances are at the moment - a fair bit of our income is from hall lets, which is now zero, and cash in envelopes on Sunday morning, I'm giving the same by bank transfer and I suspect that when we do get back there may be a couple of the ladies with a big stack of envelopes so that would be a deferred income rather than none. Our 'fund raisers', occasional coffee mornings and the like, are run for other causes - we'd have probably held a Coffee Morning for Christian Aid this coming Saturday - so that doesn't impact our finances, but of course will be a small hit on the finances of those organisations who would get those funds (though if replicated nation-wide that can be a big hole in the finances of charities).
* that being my two children ... you can do the maths on how big our congregation is!
It's not in Scotland, but I know of one church in this Diocese which is suffering a shortfall of £4000 per month at the moment, the main cause being the complete loss of hall etc. lettings.
They do have a sizeable congregation, and are in a relatively affluent area, but even so, their finances are going to be shot to bits by the end of the year.
As I'm attending Scottish Episcopal services on Sundays at the moment, thanks to YouTube, I'm wondering how the SEC is doing as regards £££?
I recall reading, years ago, that The Cathedral Of The Isles at Millport was run 'on a shoestring budget', the implication being that a relatively small denomination was finding things hard even Way Back Then (1977 or thereabouts).
In the CofS one of the issues is that this year it seems that quite a few congregations are simply not sending in their assessed remittances to the central pot, but of course still expect their ministers to receive stipend. I can see why - the assessments have been rising anyway, and if the money is not coming in and the congregation has no lee-way, then treasurers are reluctant to pay out. And most congregants have the impression that the CofS is sitting on pots of reserves but just chooses not to touch them. This is not true, but money has never been talked about properly until very recently - though I would question if it is really being talked about properly even now. People think it is not a spiritual topic of conversation and that God will provide, and certainly do not want to see their beloved Kirk as having to be run by the rules that apply to any other large business.
I didn't know that - perhaps a Piskie Shipmate could help?
Re the Kirk - are there many ministers who are non-stipendiary, as in the C of E these days? South of the Border, these are sometimes known as Self-Supporting Ministers (SSM) or House-for-duty (Hfd).
For smaller/poorer parishes, this can work well, as long as the churches concerned have a reasonably strong and active lay ministry team (which may only consist of just the churchwardens, and a Reader or two...), and people generally not expecting the 'Vicar' to be on call 24/7.
The Cathedral of the Isles in Millport, Isle of Cumbrae has not had an ordained incumbent for a long time, though priests will come to celebrate the eucharist whenever possible. The church has however benefitted for many, many years from the devoted service of a lay chaplain who is also a musician.
The college of the Holy Spirit, as it was, is run as a guest house - you can book through booking.com. I stayed in it once and had a room which was originally for the sick. Just beside the bed there was a window in the wall which allowed the invalid to watch the service taking place below at the altar.
I think that the numbers of Episcopalians on the island could be counted on the fingers of two hands.
The Catholics , who number about 100 in the winter, are served by a priest who comes regularly from Largs on the mainland, as indeed is also the case for the Presbyterians. They,( the Presbyterians) do ,however, have a nice new church after more or less having to abandon the old church. 60 years ago there were three Presbyterian congregations on the island, as well as a Gospel Hall. At that time the Catholics worshipped in the domestic chapel of the dowager Marchioness of Bute.
Things have changed on the island (I have close personal connections with the island) but the cathedral is still there.
Oh yes, I have stayed there too, while on a weekend with a bunch of organists (husband's little venture) and two small children (ours). They did not appreciate that the Guest House did not serve breakfast until 9 a.m.!
Re non stipendiary ministers, we have OLMs, which are Local Ordained Ministers, but they are specifically not allowed to be parish ministers, although they can be locums under the Interim Moderator's supervision - or another minister if the IM is an elder. @Ethne Alba's experience is far from unusual. In my presbytery (the smallest mainland one) we are "supposed" to have 7 ministers for 9 charges all of which have multiple places of worship, and we did when I arrived here 11 years ago. We are currently feeling very well provided for with 4. At the worst it was me and a colleague who was off long term sick.
I called myself the bishop in those days!!
I hope that something similar may happen with the 'Cathedral' in Brechin. This building,the pre Reformation cathedral for the diocese of Brechin, has been a Church of Scotland parish church for many centuries. The congregation have amalgamated with another Presbyterian church in the town and find the old cathedral surplus to requirements and a far too heavy financial burden for the new combined congregation. It is not certain what will happen to the building. It may become a visitor centre. Maybe it will be discussed at the forthcoming virtual Annual General Assembly of the church of Scotland
Just for Bishop's finger I wonder if he knows that the Scottish Episcopal church retains the names of all the pre Reformation dioceses in Scotland with the addition of the post Reformation diocese of Edinburgh. Apart from Edinburgh, there is, however, only one diocese which has only one name and that is the diocese of Brechin. The cathedral is in Dundee which also hosts the older postReformation cathedral for the Catholic diocese of Dunkeld
Thx again. Yes, I did realise that the SEC Dioceses' names did not necessarily reflect the name of the place where the Cathedral is situated!
My feeling is that many denominations, in England, Scotland, or wherever, are going to have to travel far more lightly in the not-too-distant future...
@Forthview Brechin won’t come up at the virtual General Assembly because a) it has happened already, and dealt with only essential business, and b) disposal of buildings is a presbytery matter and would only come to the GA if there were people strongly enough opposed to what was proposed regarding a building to have gone through several other appeals first.
The Cathedral of the Isles in Millport, Isle of Cumbrae has not had an ordained incumbent for a long time, though priests will come to celebrate the eucharist whenever possible.
However there is now a retired priest on the island, as we discovered when we took a retreat group last year, and found we did not need to also bring a priest for the Sunday morning...
Glad to hear about the resident SEC priest on Cumbrae. I only go back there once a year to visit graves and 'know' more people in the cemetery than in the community now.
It would have done in happier days. But it got cancelled and the commission of last year’s assembly did essential business by internet. I know because that included me. Weirdly they have decided to go ahead and install the new Moderator in an online, almost no one there, ceremony on Saturday. Makes no sense as he will have no Assembly to moderate and makeS a nonsense of the role (IMNSHO). I think by doing this the powers that be in the Kirk are admitting that the Moderator is really the figurehead, and his (or her, but his again this year) actually moderating is secondary. Not that I have opinions or anything.
Our financial situation was so bad that the lockdown has made little difference. Not paying for our eye-wateringly expensive electric heating, and not having to pay out pulpit supply and expenses for visiting ministers, and being able to declare the Manse empty for council tax has almost made up for the lost income from offerings on Sundays.
First strawberries of the year for pudding tonight. Greenhouse grown and probably tasting of nothing much, but with enough sugar and whipped cream...
Preceded by the customary steak'n'chips which in turn follow the equally customary cocktail. I must go shortly and put the glasses in the freezer to chill.
First strawberries of the year for pudding tonight. Greenhouse grown and probably tasting of nothing much, but with enough sugar and whipped cream ...
We need to get some strawberries: we asked my brother and s-i-l to add cream to our grocery list for a recipe I was planning, and they brought a humongous great tub of it (because it had a later sell-by date n the smaller ones), but we'll still need to use it!
I'm not a huge fan of strawberries, but with cream (and a grind or two of pepper to bring out the sweetness) they can be rather nice.
Comments
I always assumed it was a dialect version of "singlet", but I'm open to correction.
I couldn't help wondering at the wisdom of Mr. McKellar wearing a kilt while roaming through the midgie-infested gloaming though ...
The semmet was and still is an undervest.
My father used to say of two things or persons going well together
'they go together like semmet and drawers'
Are your midges mayflies? We have had clouds of them this year.
Parishes in the Church of England are also finding the times difficult as regards £££, despite the fact that churches are, of course, spending much less on heating and lighting...
Those with stipendiary clergy (our chap is house-for-duty, so we only have to meet his reasonable expenses) are especially hard-hit.
Will the Kirk perhaps be forced to downsize (I hate that word, but YSWIM)?
(BTW - I appreciate that you've already said you might have to lose one of your own three churches...).
I have no idea, but presumably, if it were to apply in England, it would apply in Scotland as well.
I rather hope that, for churches in both countries (and Wales, and NI, for that matter) meeting the needs of their stipendiary clergy would be a first priority.
Bear in mind we don't have an Established Church in the same way, and clergy may well be employed by their congregations...
I have a friend who had just been appointed to a charge but had not taken it up: they had handed in their notice to their former employer, and had to get themselves put back on their former employers books in order to be furloughed...
1. Technically we are not "employees" but "office holders".
2. We are still working so couldn't be furloughed anyway - obviously this might not be true of some in specialised posts.
FWIW we applied for furlough for our church Playgroup's staff and this went through with no problem. We are making up the extra 20% so they are still on full salary.
And indeed, this. Our clergy are still working....
I did wonder what the status of non-Anglican or RC ministers in England was....
Of course if they would sell 121 George Street it would help at least for a while.
Sorry, just realised I have given you a parenthesis inside a parenthesis: hope you can find your way out of the maze.
Off to deliver a foodbank parcel. Sign of the times.
Anyway, a difficult situation, and I'm afraid you're likely to be right about closures and unions, on both sides of the Border.
The Baptists are different in that most ministers are paid locally. The good side of this is that people are more likely to give if it seems relevant to them, rather than to "Head Office". The downside of course comes when a church is small, or in a deprived area, or bankrolled by just one or two people, or when there's a falling-out with the minister. Some churches in missional situations are supported by denominational funds, and other funds have been made available to help churches which are struggling in the Covid crisis - but there's not a great deal in the kitty. In my own church quite a number of folk give by standing order or direct debit; nevertheless our income for the calendar year is down by £2200 and we haven't been able to hold a couple of our usual fund-raising events either.
Timescales for consultations This year are now all out of the window.
Surely no one will be surprised by the situation that the Church of Scotland finds ourselves in?
* that being my two children ... you can do the maths on how big our congregation is!
They do have a sizeable congregation, and are in a relatively affluent area, but even so, their finances are going to be shot to bits by the end of the year.
As I'm attending Scottish Episcopal services on Sundays at the moment, thanks to YouTube, I'm wondering how the SEC is doing as regards £££?
I recall reading, years ago, that The Cathedral Of The Isles at Millport was run 'on a shoestring budget', the implication being that a relatively small denomination was finding things hard even Way Back Then (1977 or thereabouts).
Re the Kirk - are there many ministers who are non-stipendiary, as in the C of E these days? South of the Border, these are sometimes known as Self-Supporting Ministers (SSM) or House-for-duty (Hfd).
For smaller/poorer parishes, this can work well, as long as the churches concerned have a reasonably strong and active lay ministry team (which may only consist of just the churchwardens, and a Reader or two...), and people generally not expecting the 'Vicar' to be on call 24/7.
What is one of Those!
Not had one here for Years.
Which causes its own problems coz neither are we in a meaningful working partnership with any other congregation.
Well
On paper
But not in practice.
&
As far as this newbie to Church of Scotland can tell, our situation is very common.
Sigh
I was rather looking forward to our Year Of Radical Action.......
I'll get me bonnet...
The college of the Holy Spirit, as it was, is run as a guest house - you can book through booking.com. I stayed in it once and had a room which was originally for the sick. Just beside the bed there was a window in the wall which allowed the invalid to watch the service taking place below at the altar.
I think that the numbers of Episcopalians on the island could be counted on the fingers of two hands.
The Catholics , who number about 100 in the winter, are served by a priest who comes regularly from Largs on the mainland, as indeed is also the case for the Presbyterians. They,( the Presbyterians) do ,however, have a nice new church after more or less having to abandon the old church. 60 years ago there were three Presbyterian congregations on the island, as well as a Gospel Hall. At that time the Catholics worshipped in the domestic chapel of the dowager Marchioness of Bute.
Things have changed on the island (I have close personal connections with the island) but the cathedral is still there.
The Cathedral certainly seems to have, in a sense, re-invented itself, as a guest house and concert venue, whilst still maintaining Christian worship.
Re non stipendiary ministers, we have OLMs, which are Local Ordained Ministers, but they are specifically not allowed to be parish ministers, although they can be locums under the Interim Moderator's supervision - or another minister if the IM is an elder. @Ethne Alba's experience is far from unusual. In my presbytery (the smallest mainland one) we are "supposed" to have 7 ministers for 9 charges all of which have multiple places of worship, and we did when I arrived here 11 years ago. We are currently feeling very well provided for with 4. At the worst it was me and a colleague who was off long term sick.
I called myself the bishop in those days!!
Just for Bishop's finger I wonder if he knows that the Scottish Episcopal church retains the names of all the pre Reformation dioceses in Scotland with the addition of the post Reformation diocese of Edinburgh. Apart from Edinburgh, there is, however, only one diocese which has only one name and that is the diocese of Brechin. The cathedral is in Dundee which also hosts the older postReformation cathedral for the Catholic diocese of Dunkeld
My feeling is that many denominations, in England, Scotland, or wherever, are going to have to travel far more lightly in the not-too-distant future...
However there is now a retired priest on the island, as we discovered when we took a retreat group last year, and found we did not need to also bring a priest for the Sunday morning...
Not to be confused with the SEC Diocese of St Andrew's, Dunkeld and Dunblane, whose cathedral is in Perth...
I've been here about 12 years, so it must have been before then...
Would be Outrage!
Are you going on about bagpipes again?
I thought it was about the impact of clootie dumpling on the digestion.
Preceded by the customary steak'n'chips which in turn follow the equally customary cocktail. I must go shortly and put the glasses in the freezer to chill.
Happy dancing has started!
I'm not a huge fan of strawberries, but with cream (and a grind or two of pepper to bring out the sweetness) they can be rather nice.
So it was your fault ...