There are reports that many diagnosed people are not self quarantining even though they have been instructed to do so. I don't know if there are legal requirements to comply, or are there just moral expectations. How do you make people do the right thing?
--If you can't obtain hand sanitizer, do a search on "DIY hand sanitizer". Various recipes, varying thoughts expressed as to effectiveness. IANAD. Just letting you know, 'cause I looked. Different ingredients effective for different things. One was as simple as aloe vera and vodka.
--A Chinese hotel used for quarantine collapsed. Last I saw, no death; but they were still looking for people.
--People who've been at various gatherings with T and officials have been diagnosed with corona. Reportedly, T and officials so far not affected. (I don't wish illness on them; but if they *do* become ill, I hope they take a more sensible attitude about the virus.)
Do not use vodka as an ingredient for homemade hand sanitizer. Bottle vodka has only 40% alcohol. You need something at 80% alcohol such as rubbing alcohol.
IANAD (or a molecular biologist), but as I recall, alcohol-based sanitisers are primarily effective against bacteria. A quick google of various brands does suggest that although they proclaim "kills 99% of all germs" on the label, they are described in accompanying blurbs as antibacterial. Hospitals respond to viral outbreaks by washing surfaces down with a chlorine-based solution. Hands probably don't come into it so much, given disposable gloves are routinely worn by health professionals. I don't know what the lay equivalent would be, although I have been instructed in the past to bath one of my kids in a very dilute household bleach solution (by a GP, and not to prevent transmission of a virus) - link for anyone interested - which appears to at least be proof of concept that chlorine solutions can be used on human skin, if at low concentrations (as are public swimming pools, I guess).
AIUI, washing your hands with soap and water is more effective than using alcohol rub. My experience of very stringent hygiene rules in the NICU was that you washed very thoroughly with soap (and make sure you get in between your fingers and under your nails) and then use sanitiser as a top-up once your hands are already clean. The main advantage to sanitiser is that you can put it in your bag and carry it about.
That said, sanitisers do look like they work on Coronavirus because they destroy the proteins on its surface.
Oh, and invest in a good moisturiser because with all this washing, your skin's going to end up like sandpaper. 🤨
AIUI, washing your hands with soap and water is more effective than using alcohol rub. My experience of very stringent hygiene rules in the NICU was that you washed very thoroughly with soap (and make sure you get in between your fingers and under your nails) and then use sanitiser as a top-up once your hands are already clean. The main advantage to sanitiser is that you can put it in your bag and carry it about.
The main disadvantage to hand sanitiser, as I see it, is the possibility likelihood of people seeing it as some kind of magic bullet, and becoming remaining complacent wrt the actions actually advised by experts, like washing your hands properly, as you say.
So as a healthcare professional who works in mental health - we don’t routinely wear gloves.
We are advised to wash hands with soap and water, hand sanitiser only when hands physically clean and soap and water not readily accessible. As part of infection control mandatory training, we are audited on how well we wash our hands on a yearly basis. As in, a special lotion on my hands, then a nursing colleague watched me wash my hands, then used a black light to check the result - in addition to asking me questions about it.
If you don’t pass the audit it has to be redone.
I have also now been given a new large bottle of hand sanitiser to keep in my office, v high alcohol content.
The information I've seen is that the alcohol-based sanitisers are the effective ones, but that the non-alcohol anti-bacterial ones should be avoided and even the good stuff is secondary to proper hand washing.
I was very surprised at the prevalence of hand sanitizer in the USA. It was all over the place. Soap and water is best, and if you like that satisfying sting, just whack your hands with a ruler.
Italy has put a quarter of its people under lockdown.
WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus tweeted: "The government & the people of Italy are taking bold, courageous steps aimed at slowing the spread of the coronavirus & protecting their country & world.
"They are making genuine sacrifices. WHO stands in solidarity with Italy & is here to continue supporting you."
At Church today two people were coughing away into their hands. Hmmm...
We always have little cups for communion anyway and the minister has excellent hand hygiene - so that’s good.
Most people were ‘wrist bumping’ instead of shaking hands but one bloke was muttering ‘ridiculous scare mongering, if you catch it you catch it’. He has elderly parents and a very sick wife - so I was annoyed about his attitude.
I don’t agree with him.
I’m not anxious at all, but I am being sensible - not shaking hands, not touching public surfaces, not touching my face, hand washing etc. I’m off to Germany on Wednesday and Frankfurt is one of the world’s busiest airports. I’m not worried - I think I was just as likely to catch it at Church!
When wiping things down with your Clorox solution, try to leave it on your counters for at least five minutes before rinsing. You do need to rinse your kitchen counters after using it. I once gave my family a Pizza that tasted like Clorox and they didn't like it.
Don't forget your light switches.
Holding my breath for Lamb Chopped and Mousethief.
It's interesting to compare countries with a partial lockdown, such as Italy, and those where there is talk of it being under control, (Austria). And then there is Trump, who "has a hunch" that things aren't so bad.
I guess China points the way, that severe measures seem to work, but politicians are reluctant to go there. We were watching the news last night, and the guy suddenly said, 1200 new cases in a day in Italy. Yoiks.
Our organist (who was also leading worship) asked people as they came in whether they were concerned about our practice of using a common cup. I read out the advice from the congregation (which is that normal hygiene practices should still be taken - stay home if ill, don't shake hands if you're coughing or sneezing, those preparing food should wash hands thoroughly etc - but that there's no reason at present to not celebrate communion as normal) and told everyone the elders and minister will continue to monitor the situation and discuss what's happening, and will take advice and change our practice when appropriate.
While the rate of incidence remains low in this country, and while the congregation are comfortable with it, we'll keep using the common cup. If people are concerned there is no need for them to take the juice. We have some wee cuppies that can be brought out should the situation change, but that still leaves people handling the tray with the cups in it (and, the plate for the bread) so there won't be any way to prevent transmission through communion ... and, deciding to not have communion would be a step that the congregation isn't going to take.
It's interesting to compare countries with a partial lockdown, such as Italy, and those where there is talk of it being under control, (Austria). And then there is Trump, who "has a hunch" that things aren't so bad.
I guess China points the way, that severe measures seem to work, but politicians are reluctant to go there. We were watching the news last night, and the guy suddenly said, 1200 new cases in a day in Italy. Yoiks.
Measures are an issue of timing, to flatten the incidence peak, knowing when to switch phases is key. Trumps catastrofuck over the surveillance is a major problem because when to switch to large scale measure is then anyone’s guess.
UK gov is doing ok in many ways, by following scientific advice, but I am concerned about capacity in the system when we hit peak. We are effected by a decade of under investment and existing staff shortages.
FatherInCharge beat me to it, and told us this morning that hand-shaking at The Peace was optional (it always is, but I saw what he meant), and that if peeps felt more comfortable with some other gesture, then that was OK.
Everyone therefore employed the namaste bow (well, I did, along with one or two others), or touched shoulders, or simply gave a little wave, and a smile...
We have an Indian student in our little flock, and she was delighted with the namaste - she tells me that in her home state of Kerala, the greeting is namaskar .
We were a bit thin on the ground today, but a few of our older members are on sick leave anyway (nothing to do with coronavirus), and other people were at work - we get a 'Low Sunday' every few weeks, when lots of folk are unavoidably absent, and today was one of those Sundays.
I hope.
We certainly haven't heard of any of our people being unwell with the Dreaded Lurgyvirus.
At Quakers we normally shake hands on entering and at the end of the meeting.
Today it was suggested that we touch arms if wanted. One person I just waved at. I am concerned becuase we do have a number of elderly and vulnerable people. But we are just taking it in our stride and not panicking or stressing.
Strange, I found an old manuscript in my desk, must have been there for ages.
Journal of the Year of the Plague, the Year of the Lord, 1665. 8 March, today I sent my servant Tobias out into the street, to see how things are progressing. He reported that most of the dead have now been dragged away and hidden, and the price of a loaf has risen to 2 shillings. I shall see that I shall have to command our cook to make bread, and hope the rats have not made further inroads into our flour.
The king has moved to Oxford, to avoid the Plague, you can imagine what imprecations followed him there, what a hissing and booing along the streets. My wife's maidservant needs urgent attention, so I shall desist from writing for now.
At church this morning we were invited to use BSL ( British Sign Language ) to share the Peace. Most attempted to do so, though whether it would have been recognised by genuine users of BSL as their first language, I doubt very much.
What food are the poop ticket hoarders stocking up on? It's not oatmeal or macaroni.
Alcohol based hand sanitizer is drinkable. Apparently mixing well with 7Up or Sprite. Because the sanitizer alcohol is denatured or continuing other alcohols, if you've drunk enough they put you on a slow drip of ethanol so the toxic alcohols are metabolized slowly in competition with beverage alcohol. And usually a benzo too. In the past photocopier fluid and Lysol served, but sanitizer tastes better. We've put sanitizer dispensers on the wall versus free standing bottles. And it's the foam not the liquid version.
It's interesting to compare countries with a partial lockdown, such as Italy, and those where there is talk of it being under control, (Austria). And then there is Trump, who "has a hunch" that things aren't so bad.
Don't worry. I'm sure he's willing to follow advice.
The White House overruled health officials who wanted to recommend that elderly and physically fragile Americans be advised not to fly on commercial airlines because of the new coronavirus, a federal official told The Associated Press.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention submitted the plan this week as a way of trying to control the virus, but White House officials ordered the air travel recommendation be removed, said the official who had direct knowledge of the plan. Trump administration officials have since suggested certain people should consider not traveling, but they have stopped short of the stronger guidance sought by the CDC.
The person who spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity did not have authorization to talk about the matter. The person did not have direct knowledge about why the decision to kill the language was made.
In a tweet, the press secretary for Vice President Mike Pence, Katie Miller, said that “it was never a recommendation to the Task Force” and called the AP story “complete fiction.”
On Friday, the CDC quietly updated its website to tell older adults and people with severe medical conditions such as heart, lung or kidney disease to “stay home as much as possible” and avoid crowds. It urges those people to “take actions to reduce your risk of exposure,” but it doesn’t specifically address flying.
I'm guessing that "complete fiction" is the more sophisticated version of "fake news".
I was happy to learn that my friend who came back from her vacation in Italy got her test results back and is not carrying the virus. As yet we haven't had any cases here on the island (or indeed in all of Eastern Canada). However, I did suggest to the platform crew at church this weekend that they encourage greeting by means other than hand-shaking, and everyone seemed willing to comply. Seems like one small easy way to reduce the danger of transmission when the virus does get here.
I think governments (especially in the EU and US) are being supremely complacent and if we avoid catastrophe we'd have been extremely lucky.
What is going to kill people is a surge in the numbers of infections overloading the healthcare system - the governments that have coped well with this have bulked up their health services, instituted mass testing, and travel/area lockdowns.
Too many governments seem to be hoping that nothing bad happens.
I think why I am so largely indifferent to the current panic is not because I am unaware of the impact of respiratory infections - quite ordinary flu killed my SiL two Christmases ago - but because, having gone through living with someone whose immune system was completely destroyed by cancer treatment, I'm aware that it's not that difficult to survive with fairly minimal precautions.
Attendance at church was sharply down today, and the attendees were scattered throughout the sanctuary. The only group that was clustered together was the choir (about 20). Sad
I went to the local Big Box store yesterday to buy some printer ink. Normally, the store would have been packed, but again only about a third of normal. I asked the one clerk I know how was business. He said it was "okay," but everyone was buying cleaning supplies.
Night before last we went out to eat and decided to visit an old haunt, a big Chinese place. You got it. We were almost the only guests, in a huge barn of a place. They were dreadfully happy to see us. I wish people weren't such idiots.
The owner of the small independent health food shop near us was very happy this weekend; he said he couldn’t remember the last day his takings had been so high since the Tesco Metro opened round the corner. Tesco was rationing items, so people were coming to him instead for pasta, rice, oats and flour.
I've had communion in various parts of the church spectrum. I grew up with trays of wee cuppies of grape juice and trays of broken crackers passed around, and everyone partook at the same time.
I've done the shared cup at RC and Episcopal churches.
At a Lutheran church, there was a fusion: wee cuppies of wine served up at the altar rail. I'm not sure of their reasons; but it combined greater safety (IMHO) with still having the experience of going forward to the altar rail.
IMHO, it may be possible to adapt particular methods and still keep the intended spirit.
I've had communion in various parts of the church spectrum. I grew up with trays of wee cuppies of grape juice and trays of broken crackers passed around, and everyone partook at the same time.
I've done the shared cup at RC and Episcopal churches.
At a Lutheran church, there was a fusion: wee cuppies of wine served up at the altar rail. I'm not sure of their reasons; but it combined greater safety (IMHO) with still having the experience of going forward to the altar rail.
IMHO, it may be possible to adapt particular methods and still keep the intended spirit.
How funny! I've never thought of that as a fusion, but I can see how it might look that way. Reasons--well, IME we've always gone forward, unless physically unable to do so; but the wee cuppies are preferred by a lot of people and have been for many years, even when we're not in a pandemic. Most LCMS churches of my experience offer both and let the communicant choose.
Josephine read that the Covid-19 has a lipid outer shell (surely not the technical term) so washing with soap actually breaks it apart. So wash with soap.
Episcopal priest in Washington D.C has come down with the virus. He was at a conference with other clergy earlier in the week. He then came home and served communion Sunday morning, at his church. He became ill Sunday night, and is now in the hospital. His family is in quarantine.
Things our congregation is doing to mitigate the spread of coronavirus.
1 Instead of a handshake during the passing of the peace, we signed "Peace be with you" in sign language
2 Instead of passing the offering plate, we had one plate at the altar so people could bring their offerings directly to the altar.
3 Instead of a loaf of bread, we are using wafers
4 Instead of the common cup, we used disposable "wee cuppies" which were disposed of immediately after service
5 Right before communion, the communion assistants went to wash their hands, soap and water for 20 seconds
6 The sanctuary will have a deep clean after every Sunday until the crisis passes
7 Next week we will be printing the full service instead of using hymnals.
I understand Washington DC now has an identified coronavirus patient. Turns out, it is the rector of Christ Church, Episcopal. Rev Timothy Cole. Story Here. Pray for him and his parishioners as they deal with this disease.
"In an alarming development, Dr Nattino said younger patients were being affected, saying the ages of patients ranged from 46 to 83 with only a small number having important underlying conditions.
He added: “The last days are showing a younger population involved as if the elderly and weaker part of the population crashed early and now younger patients, having exhausted their physiological reserves, come to overcrowded, overwhelmed hospitals with little resources left.”
One UK doctor said this latter point needed careful consideration by NHS hospitals, adding: “We need to be careful to have some ICU capacity for younger patients. This is where important difficult decisions need to be made.”"
Just back from Tesco - not one of the big ones, but a medium-sized town centre shop.
There is a shortage of Tomato Soup, also Oxtail Soup (but that may have been due to a late delivery, rather than a panic...), and I see that things like packs of anti-bacterial wipes (for kitchen surfaces etc.) are limited to 2 per customer. No shortage, AFAICS, of loo rolls or paracetamol!
I also noticed that each member of staff at the checkouts had his/her own big bottle of hand-sanitizer.
Otherwise, business as usual for early Monday afternoon, ISTM. There are usually a few gaps on the shelves on Mondays, anyway, as they stock up again after the weekend.
Meanwhile, I've put the updated guidance notes from C of E Head Office on Our Place's website. Nothing much to add, really, except that refraining from shaking hands at The Peace is now suggested.
Josephine read that the Covid-19 has a lipid outer shell (surely not the technical term) so washing with soap actually breaks it apart. So wash with soap.
Thank Josephine for us. I just watched the mailman drop ours in the box ... wonder what all he's touched this morning? I will go get it, sort it and wash with soap before Mr. Germ gets home.
Josephine read that the Covid-19 has a lipid outer shell (surely not the technical term) so washing with soap actually breaks it apart. So wash with soap.
It's a while since I learnt any virology but I looked it up and the Coronaviruses are indeed encapsulated. The capsule being made of the same phospholipids that make up cell membranes (indeed that's where viruses get them from). That being so, they will indeed be vulnerable to both soap and alcohol-based sanitiser.
I was reading a worst case scenario, and I wish I hadn't. I won't repeat it, anyway, my nerves have stopped jangling. I am fatalistic really.
Public health experts have known for a long time that a viral pandemic was a question of when not if... Thus the worst case scenarios are well developed.
We face the Y2K problem here. If things are not as bad as feared, it will only be because of excellent work by Public Health experts keeping us safe. And then idiots in the media will be out in force complaining that the experts overreacted and scared everyone. It's not my area but I know the evidence well enough to know that infections like this one have huge potential and it is certainly very possible for the need to exceed our healthcare resources.
Yes indeed, but the chance of a useful increase in healthcare spending, and provision of greater resources, in The English Empire are probably on a par with the chance of sighting a Unicorn...
Thank God our public health experts are as good as they are. If we relied on the government to save us, we'd all be dead already.
Thank God our public health experts are as good as they are. If we relied on the government to save us, we'd all be dead already.
This reminds me of one of the older Doonesbury strips where BD goes down to the Veteran's Administration Center to talk to his counselor and says something along the lines of "the government doesn't run this place, you guys do." Drawing a sharp distinction between elected officials as "the government" and various agencies of the government (like state-funded epidemiologists) seems like a fallacy.
As with all things, professional expertise is built up over decades. The strength of our service reflects long term investment before this group of incompetents took over. Sadly though they slashed public health funding in 2010-11 and thus we are not as well-prepared as we could be. I think it won't lead to disaster but it might. In the same way that the recent flooding is in part the government's fault because they ignored the experts and slashed funding* so there may also be some hens coming home to roost.
Hence, whilst the sharp distinction between elected officials and publicly-funded professionals is problematic, it is not a fallacy.
AFZ
*Good summary of the government's culpability for the floods here.
As with all things, professional expertise is built up over decades. The strength of our service reflects long term investment before this group of incompetents took over.
Incompetents whose latest idea is that perhaps we should all 'take it on the chin' - not sure what's worse, what Johnson says, or the respectful faces of the hosts as they listen to such bullsh*t.
Some really sensible idiot broke quarantine in my city to go to a father/daughter dance. Now two schools are closed, a hotel and an innocent family's home are contaminated, and there is also a trail of COVID-whatsit on planes, trains and stations all the way from Chicago to St. Louis.
I was reading a worst case scenario, and I wish I hadn't. I won't repeat it, anyway, my nerves have stopped jangling. I am fatalistic really.
I really think this is one of those occasions where you see the truth of “who can add one hour to his life by worrying?”
Prudence is one thing. Wash your hands thoroughly, don’t touch your face if you can help it, avoid crowded places. Once you’ve done all of that, worrying yourself to death doesn’t stop you getting sick and makes you unhappy all the time.
Prudence is one thing. Wash your hands thoroughly, don’t touch your face if you can help it, avoid crowded places. Once you’ve done all of that, worrying yourself to death doesn’t stop you getting sick and makes you unhappy all the time.
All true. But I'm still going to worry about my mother, who lives in a senior community and whose age and underlying health condition mean contracting covid-19 it would very likely kill her. I can't do anything but worry.
Comments
Relevant NY Times article. (There might be a pay wall. I tried to find a copy on another site, but that didn't work well.)
"How to Quarantine Yourself: Thousands who may have been exposed to the coronavirus have been asked to seclude themselves. It’s harder than it sounds."
--If you can't obtain hand sanitizer, do a search on "DIY hand sanitizer". Various recipes, varying thoughts expressed as to effectiveness. IANAD. Just letting you know, 'cause I looked. Different ingredients effective for different things. One was as simple as aloe vera and vodka.
--Here in SF, all sorts of things are closing down, partly due to the mayor and various local agencies. If anyone's curious, this is posted at Funcheap.SF, a local events calendar:
"List of SF Event Cancellations Due to Coronavirus: The latest updates of how Bay Area & SF events are impacted by coronavirus".
--A Chinese hotel used for quarantine collapsed. Last I saw, no death; but they were still looking for people.
--People who've been at various gatherings with T and officials have been diagnosed with corona. Reportedly, T and officials so far not affected. (I don't wish illness on them; but if they *do* become ill, I hope they take a more sensible attitude about the virus.)
link for anyone interested - which appears to at least be proof of concept that chlorine solutions can be used on human skin, if at low concentrations (as are public swimming pools, I guess).
That said, sanitisers do look like they work on Coronavirus because they destroy the proteins on its surface.
Oh, and invest in a good moisturiser because with all this washing, your skin's going to end up like sandpaper. 🤨
We are advised to wash hands with soap and water, hand sanitiser only when hands physically clean and soap and water not readily accessible. As part of infection control mandatory training, we are audited on how well we wash our hands on a yearly basis. As in, a special lotion on my hands, then a nursing colleague watched me wash my hands, then used a black light to check the result - in addition to asking me questions about it.
If you don’t pass the audit it has to be redone.
I have also now been given a new large bottle of hand sanitiser to keep in my office, v high alcohol content.
We always have little cups for communion anyway and the minister has excellent hand hygiene - so that’s good.
Most people were ‘wrist bumping’ instead of shaking hands but one bloke was muttering ‘ridiculous scare mongering, if you catch it you catch it’. He has elderly parents and a very sick wife - so I was annoyed about his attitude.
I don’t agree with him.
I’m not anxious at all, but I am being sensible - not shaking hands, not touching public surfaces, not touching my face, hand washing etc. I’m off to Germany on Wednesday and Frankfurt is one of the world’s busiest airports. I’m not worried - I think I was just as likely to catch it at Church!
Don't forget your light switches.
Holding my breath for Lamb Chopped and Mousethief.
I guess China points the way, that severe measures seem to work, but politicians are reluctant to go there. We were watching the news last night, and the guy suddenly said, 1200 new cases in a day in Italy. Yoiks.
While the rate of incidence remains low in this country, and while the congregation are comfortable with it, we'll keep using the common cup. If people are concerned there is no need for them to take the juice. We have some wee cuppies that can be brought out should the situation change, but that still leaves people handling the tray with the cups in it (and, the plate for the bread) so there won't be any way to prevent transmission through communion ... and, deciding to not have communion would be a step that the congregation isn't going to take.
Measures are an issue of timing, to flatten the incidence peak, knowing when to switch phases is key. Trumps catastrofuck over the surveillance is a major problem because when to switch to large scale measure is then anyone’s guess.
UK gov is doing ok in many ways, by following scientific advice, but I am concerned about capacity in the system when we hit peak. We are effected by a decade of under investment and existing staff shortages.
Everyone therefore employed the namaste bow (well, I did, along with one or two others), or touched shoulders, or simply gave a little wave, and a smile...
We have an Indian student in our little flock, and she was delighted with the namaste - she tells me that in her home state of Kerala, the greeting is namaskar .
We were a bit thin on the ground today, but a few of our older members are on sick leave anyway (nothing to do with coronavirus), and other people were at work - we get a 'Low Sunday' every few weeks, when lots of folk are unavoidably absent, and today was one of those Sundays.
I hope.
We certainly haven't heard of any of our people being unwell with the Dreaded Lurgyvirus.
Today it was suggested that we touch arms if wanted. One person I just waved at. I am concerned becuase we do have a number of elderly and vulnerable people. But we are just taking it in our stride and not panicking or stressing.
Journal of the Year of the Plague, the Year of the Lord, 1665. 8 March, today I sent my servant Tobias out into the street, to see how things are progressing. He reported that most of the dead have now been dragged away and hidden, and the price of a loaf has risen to 2 shillings. I shall see that I shall have to command our cook to make bread, and hope the rats have not made further inroads into our flour.
The king has moved to Oxford, to avoid the Plague, you can imagine what imprecations followed him there, what a hissing and booing along the streets. My wife's maidservant needs urgent attention, so I shall desist from writing for now.
O praise be to God for common sense!
Alcohol based hand sanitizer is drinkable. Apparently mixing well with 7Up or Sprite. Because the sanitizer alcohol is denatured or continuing other alcohols, if you've drunk enough they put you on a slow drip of ethanol so the toxic alcohols are metabolized slowly in competition with beverage alcohol. And usually a benzo too. In the past photocopier fluid and Lysol served, but sanitizer tastes better. We've put sanitizer dispensers on the wall versus free standing bottles. And it's the foam not the liquid version.
Don't worry. I'm sure he's willing to follow advice.
I'm guessing that "complete fiction" is the more sophisticated version of "fake news".
What is going to kill people is a surge in the numbers of infections overloading the healthcare system - the governments that have coped well with this have bulked up their health services, instituted mass testing, and travel/area lockdowns.
Too many governments seem to be hoping that nothing bad happens.
I went to the local Big Box store yesterday to buy some printer ink. Normally, the store would have been packed, but again only about a third of normal. I asked the one clerk I know how was business. He said it was "okay," but everyone was buying cleaning supplies.
I've had communion in various parts of the church spectrum. I grew up with trays of wee cuppies of grape juice and trays of broken crackers passed around, and everyone partook at the same time.
I've done the shared cup at RC and Episcopal churches.
At a Lutheran church, there was a fusion: wee cuppies of wine served up at the altar rail. I'm not sure of their reasons; but it combined greater safety (IMHO) with still having the experience of going forward to the altar rail.
IMHO, it may be possible to adapt particular methods and still keep the intended spirit.
How funny! I've never thought of that as a fusion, but I can see how it might look that way. Reasons--well, IME we've always gone forward, unless physically unable to do so; but the wee cuppies are preferred by a lot of people and have been for many years, even when we're not in a pandemic. Most LCMS churches of my experience offer both and let the communicant choose.
1 Instead of a handshake during the passing of the peace, we signed "Peace be with you" in sign language
2 Instead of passing the offering plate, we had one plate at the altar so people could bring their offerings directly to the altar.
3 Instead of a loaf of bread, we are using wafers
4 Instead of the common cup, we used disposable "wee cuppies" which were disposed of immediately after service
5 Right before communion, the communion assistants went to wash their hands, soap and water for 20 seconds
6 The sanctuary will have a deep clean after every Sunday until the crisis passes
7 Next week we will be printing the full service instead of using hymnals.
I understand Washington DC now has an identified coronavirus patient. Turns out, it is the rector of Christ Church, Episcopal. Rev Timothy Cole. Story Here. Pray for him and his parishioners as they deal with this disease.
"In an alarming development, Dr Nattino said younger patients were being affected, saying the ages of patients ranged from 46 to 83 with only a small number having important underlying conditions.
He added: “The last days are showing a younger population involved as if the elderly and weaker part of the population crashed early and now younger patients, having exhausted their physiological reserves, come to overcrowded, overwhelmed hospitals with little resources left.”
One UK doctor said this latter point needed careful consideration by NHS hospitals, adding: “We need to be careful to have some ICU capacity for younger patients. This is where important difficult decisions need to be made.”"
There is a shortage of Tomato Soup, also Oxtail Soup (but that may have been due to a late delivery, rather than a panic...), and I see that things like packs of anti-bacterial wipes (for kitchen surfaces etc.) are limited to 2 per customer. No shortage, AFAICS, of loo rolls or paracetamol!
I also noticed that each member of staff at the checkouts had his/her own big bottle of hand-sanitizer.
Otherwise, business as usual for early Monday afternoon, ISTM. There are usually a few gaps on the shelves on Mondays, anyway, as they stock up again after the weekend.
Meanwhile, I've put the updated guidance notes from C of E Head Office on Our Place's website. Nothing much to add, really, except that refraining from shaking hands at The Peace is now suggested.
Thank Josephine for us. I just watched the mailman drop ours in the box ... wonder what all he's touched this morning? I will go get it, sort it and wash with soap before Mr. Germ gets home.
It's a while since I learnt any virology but I looked it up and the Coronaviruses are indeed encapsulated. The capsule being made of the same phospholipids that make up cell membranes (indeed that's where viruses get them from). That being so, they will indeed be vulnerable to both soap and alcohol-based sanitiser.
Public health experts have known for a long time that a viral pandemic was a question of when not if... Thus the worst case scenarios are well developed.
We face the Y2K problem here. If things are not as bad as feared, it will only be because of excellent work by Public Health experts keeping us safe. And then idiots in the media will be out in force complaining that the experts overreacted and scared everyone. It's not my area but I know the evidence well enough to know that infections like this one have huge potential and it is certainly very possible for the need to exceed our healthcare resources.
AFZ
Thank God our public health experts are as good as they are. If we relied on the government to save us, we'd all be dead already.
This reminds me of one of the older Doonesbury strips where BD goes down to the Veteran's Administration Center to talk to his counselor and says something along the lines of "the government doesn't run this place, you guys do." Drawing a sharp distinction between elected officials as "the government" and various agencies of the government (like state-funded epidemiologists) seems like a fallacy.
Hence, whilst the sharp distinction between elected officials and publicly-funded professionals is problematic, it is not a fallacy.
AFZ
*Good summary of the government's culpability for the floods here.
The hens coming home to roost will soon need a larger henhouse.
Incompetents whose latest idea is that perhaps we should all 'take it on the chin'
- not sure what's worse, what Johnson says, or the respectful faces of the hosts as they listen to such bullsh*t.
Lovely.
I really think this is one of those occasions where you see the truth of “who can add one hour to his life by worrying?”
Prudence is one thing. Wash your hands thoroughly, don’t touch your face if you can help it, avoid crowded places. Once you’ve done all of that, worrying yourself to death doesn’t stop you getting sick and makes you unhappy all the time.
All true. But I'm still going to worry about my mother, who lives in a senior community and whose age and underlying health condition mean contracting covid-19 it would very likely kill her. I can't do anything but worry.