I was wondering if there might be a connection between the wings of Hermes/Mercury and the wings of Christian angels, though going by the internet, Hermes wings are almost always portrayed as small ones on his headwear.
I’d think the primary source of depicting angels with wings are the descriptions of cherubim and seraphim in the OT. That and general ancient Near Eastern cosmology.
I might argue that "God wanted another angel in Heaven" is, in fact, rooted in a profound theological truth, ie. the deceased is still part of God's universe, and is now re-united with God, and you can eventually be re-united with her in the afterlife.
Or it could be theological nonsense.
Angels aren't dead people. You don't die and then get issued a pair of wings and a harp.
You mean it's nonsense because people don't become angels specifically, OR it's nonsense because people don't survive death in any way at all?
People do not become angels.
In your particular belief system, there are many forms of folk religion and a lot of people in fact believe they do.
Indeed. The idea of those who die becoming angels may not be orthodox Christianity, but it’s definitely found in folk Christianity and popular culture.
Am I the only one who grew up on The Littlest Angel? (My mother loved the book, though she also found ways to point out to us that people who die don’t really become angels.)
I’ve found it in pop culture (Laverne and Shirley, for example). It’s still not orthodox Christian theology, of course.
No, but as noted, it can definitely be found in folk Christianity.
I’m genuinely wondering like where this is part of folk Christianity here in the United States? I mean I trust that this is true but I’ve never encountered it myself. It is pervasive in things like television and movies and things like that (Clarence from it’s a wonderful life, etc.). But I’ve never encountered it as something that people who actually have some kind of real religious faith in these matters believe.
I have. I have tended to encounter it mostly among those whose faith is, I assume, genuine, but is shaped as much by popular conceptions as by any scriptural or theological education.
And having said that, my experience would suggest it’s more likely to be found among people in Christian traditions other than the traditions you or I or most other shipmates belong to.
Do these people you're thinking of actually express it as a believed doctrine(eg. teach their kids that people become angels in Heaven), or more just that they seem to casually accept the idea when presented via media, maybe use phrases(like the one that started this thread) that imply it etc?
And I'd be interested in knowing which denominations you see it represented in, since you indicated that it's not often the types seen among Shipmates.
Personally, I'd think it's less a question of denominations, and more a question of theological training and sophistication, eg. a Catholic and a Presbyterian amateur will both be more likely to believe in the dead-as-angels than an average Shipmate of either tendency would.
(And just so I don't come off as a total snob, I'm not sure if the theological wrongness of the idea is something I had ever seriously thought about until today. Maybe in passing, but I can't exactly recall.)
I’m inclined to think that in the Roman Catholic Church, what with catechism classes and such, plus the Feast of St. Michael and All Angels, even an amateur would be unlikely to believe that. (I know little of Presbyterianism and how people who join are trained.)
RCs are well used to visual depictions of Saints with halos and angels with wings and are unlikely to confuse the two.
As I say, mileages vary. My RC church in Edmonton was decidedly low on the candle, with spartan iconography, I think just a modernist crucifix and a small statuette of St. Joseph, plus small stations of the cross that could each be held in one's hand, all done in a minimalist style with bone-white stone.
If you spent your whole life in that church, there's a pretty good chance the only wings and halos you'd ever see would be in the mass media, with whatever degree of accuracy.
Could it be God calls us as angels and we don't even know it until we experience the situation? There have been a number of times in my life I find myself in a situation where I have helped resolve a problem or challenge for someone in trouble.
There was one time my father and I were hunting in the mountains. As the evening was coming, we returned to the car which we had parked in a camp owned by our church. The camp was closed for the year. No one was around. Unfortunately, the car would not start. The battery was dead. We had to hike to a nearby cabin we knew was occupied. When the man in the cabin answered our knock, we could tell he and his wife had been having a discussion. They were very willing to help us jump start the car, and then they followed us out of the woods to the main highway, where he flashed his lights as if he wanted to talk to us.
He came to the car and told us about the discussion he and his wife had been having. It was about returning to church. He wanted to know about our denomination. We gave some information about the Lutheran Church. Since his cabin was miles away from any Lutheran Church, we suggested some alternatives and told him about the Lutheran Hour; This is many years before the internet. He did have a radio.
To this day I think God used us as angels. And, in the case of the girl who was killed, I am thinking God someone like The Riv to be an angel to the family or to the community. We have already established no one wants to hear the bromide God wanted another angel. I have asked this before, but I did not hear an answer. @The_Riv how can you be an angel to the family?
And, in the case of the girl who was killed, I am thinking God someone like The Riv to be an angel to the family or to the community. We have already established no one wants to hear the bromide God wanted another angel. I have asked this before, but I did not hear an answer. @The_Riv how can you be an angel to the family?
Huffington Post had a good article on how people can help parents who are grieving the loss of a child. Maybe you can be that agent @The_Riv
It's a nice thought, but I don't know how people in their circumstance would feel about a complete stranger attempting that. If I'm honest, and it were me, I wouldn't want it -- at. all.
I trust @The_Riv to understand the dynamics of the situation where he lives better than any of us might.
I appreciate vote of confidence, @Nick Tamen, but I don’t really feel as if I have my finger on the pulse of anything here.
Like many parents, I love my children as much as I imagine anyone has ever loved theirs. I just know that if one of them were killed, there could be no angel of any kind that I could appreciate as anyone here has described. It’s just beyond my comprehension. Maybe that’s shortsighted or selfish or both, but I just can’t conceive a scenario in which my anonymous interjection into this tragedy would be helpful. And the last thing I’d want to do would be to cause any additional offense. I dunno.
Plus, I’m embarrassed and decidedly dismissive about the mind-numbingly shallow and empty evangelicalism that dominates here. I’d be too weak to defend against quoting Riggs’ response to Murtaugh, close to the beginning of “Lethal Weapon:”
Murtaugh: God hates me, that’s what it is.
Riggs: Hate him back — it works for me.
I’m just wrong for posing as any kind of messenger.
Could it be God calls us as angels and we don't even know it until we experience the situation? There have been a number of times in my life I find myself in a situation where I have helped resolve a problem or challenge for someone in trouble.
If you mean in the sense of doing His will and such, I do believe He does that, but that’s not the same thing as making us an angel in the sense of a nonhuman spiritual entity which is beyond even being a different species.
Could it be God calls us as angels and we don't even know it until we experience the situation? There have been a number of times in my life I find myself in a situation where I have helped resolve a problem or challenge for someone in trouble.
Isn't that just being a decent person? Seems as if the supernatural isn't required.
Comments
As I say, mileages vary. My RC church in Edmonton was decidedly low on the candle, with spartan iconography, I think just a modernist crucifix and a small statuette of St. Joseph, plus small stations of the cross that could each be held in one's hand, all done in a minimalist style with bone-white stone.
If you spent your whole life in that church, there's a pretty good chance the only wings and halos you'd ever see would be in the mass media, with whatever degree of accuracy.
Blames the Romans? (Cupid)
There was one time my father and I were hunting in the mountains. As the evening was coming, we returned to the car which we had parked in a camp owned by our church. The camp was closed for the year. No one was around. Unfortunately, the car would not start. The battery was dead. We had to hike to a nearby cabin we knew was occupied. When the man in the cabin answered our knock, we could tell he and his wife had been having a discussion. They were very willing to help us jump start the car, and then they followed us out of the woods to the main highway, where he flashed his lights as if he wanted to talk to us.
He came to the car and told us about the discussion he and his wife had been having. It was about returning to church. He wanted to know about our denomination. We gave some information about the Lutheran Church. Since his cabin was miles away from any Lutheran Church, we suggested some alternatives and told him about the Lutheran Hour; This is many years before the internet. He did have a radio.
To this day I think God used us as angels. And, in the case of the girl who was killed, I am thinking God someone like The Riv to be an angel to the family or to the community. We have already established no one wants to hear the bromide God wanted another angel. I have asked this before, but I did not hear an answer. @The_Riv how can you be an angel to the family?
I trust @The_Riv to understand the dynamics of the situation where he lives better than any of us might.
Like many parents, I love my children as much as I imagine anyone has ever loved theirs. I just know that if one of them were killed, there could be no angel of any kind that I could appreciate as anyone here has described. It’s just beyond my comprehension. Maybe that’s shortsighted or selfish or both, but I just can’t conceive a scenario in which my anonymous interjection into this tragedy would be helpful. And the last thing I’d want to do would be to cause any additional offense. I dunno.
Plus, I’m embarrassed and decidedly dismissive about the mind-numbingly shallow and empty evangelicalism that dominates here. I’d be too weak to defend against quoting Riggs’ response to Murtaugh, close to the beginning of “Lethal Weapon:”
Murtaugh: God hates me, that’s what it is.
Riggs: Hate him back — it works for me.
I’m just wrong for posing as any kind of messenger.
Best not to be harsh and judgemental.
If you mean in the sense of doing His will and such, I do believe He does that, but that’s not the same thing as making us an angel in the sense of a nonhuman spiritual entity which is beyond even being a different species.
Isn't that just being a decent person? Seems as if the supernatural isn't required.
Prayers ascending.