Donald ******* Trump

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Comments

  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    He’ll be 82 and probably unfit for a further four years. Perhaps I mean even more unfit?

    So far as the Constitution is concerned, the very fact that he’s claiming to be looking for wriggle room tells us all we need to know. People from a very rich background think that lawyers exist to fit the legal interpretation to their own desires.

    So it’s not surprising if Trump thinks that could happen. His behaviour after November 2020 shows the way the mind works re legalities.
  • rhubarbrhubarb Shipmate
    Trump is whinging because Australia refuses on health grounds to allow American meat into Australia. This is because Australia wants to keep its biologically clean image in regard to Mad Cow disease,]. Australia has never had any instances of this potentially fatal disease and wants to keep it that way. America is not free of Mad Cow disease. I feel that Australia is doing the right thing to protect people and animals and Trump should be made aware of this but his mind appears closed to the truth.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    After today, I'm doubling down on my prediction that Trump's reign will end with any infant descendants he may have dashethed against the White House steps.
  • RockyRogerRockyRoger Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    After today, I'm doubling down on my prediction that Trump's reign will end with any infant descendants he may have dashethed against the White House steps.

    Ah, Psalm 137. Given Trump's ancestors, the Scottish metrical version springs to mind:

    'Oh blessed may that trooper be,
    When riding on his naggie,
    Takes their wee bairns by t'toes,
    And dings them on the craggie'.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    Hmm. The 1650 Scottish metrical psalter is no kinder but has
    Yea, happy surely shall he be
    thy tender little ones
    Who shall lay hold upon, and them
    shall dash against the stones.
  • RockyRogerRockyRoger Shipmate
    BroJames wrote: »
    Hmm. The 1650 Scottish metrical psalter is no kinder but has
    Yea, happy surely shall he be
    thy tender little ones
    Who shall lay hold upon, and them
    shall dash against the stones.

    Sorta shows how folk can feel if you really, like really, piss them off. Trump and his cohorts beware!
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    RockyRoger wrote: »
    BroJames wrote: »
    Hmm. The 1650 Scottish metrical psalter is no kinder but has
    Yea, happy surely shall he be
    thy tender little ones
    Who shall lay hold upon, and them
    shall dash against the stones.

    Sorta shows how folk can feel if you really, like really, piss them off. Trump and his cohorts beware!

    Piss us off or we'll murder your kids?

    We're better than that aren't we?

    Never been able to relate to that part of the psalm.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Never been able to relate to that part of the psalm.
    My guess is that you have to be conquered, enslaved, taken from your homes and watch them do those kinds of things to your own kids to really relate to it.


  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited April 3
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Never been able to relate to that part of the psalm.
    My guess is that you have to be conquered, enslaved, taken from your homes and watch them do those kinds of things to your own kids to really relate to it.


    Perhaps. But I can't imagine wanting to hurt the innocent to get back at people. It seems both irrational and evil - psychopathic even. You've got to not see those children as people at all and kill all the empathy that most people feel.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited April 3
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Never been able to relate to that part of the psalm.
    My guess is that you have to be conquered, enslaved, taken from your homes and watch them do those kinds of things to your own kids to really relate to it.


    Perhaps. But I can't imagine wanting to hurt the innocent to get back at people. It seems both irrational and evil - psychopathic even. You've got to not see those children as people at all and kill all the empathy that most people feel.
    I think the impulse to do unto others as they have done unto us, or at least to entertain the fantasy, is probably a pretty common human experience. Acting on it would be a different thing.

    I’ve wondered if this last bit of the psalm was there as a way of getting those feelings out of their systems.


  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Never been able to relate to that part of the psalm.
    My guess is that you have to be conquered, enslaved, taken from your homes and watch them do those kinds of things to your own kids to really relate to it.


    Perhaps. But I can't imagine wanting to hurt the innocent to get back at people. It seems both irrational and evil - psychopathic even. You've got to not see those children as people at all and kill all the empathy that most people feel.
    I think the impulse to do unto others as they have done unto us, or at least to entertain the fantasy, is probably a pretty common human experience. Acting on it would be a different thing.

    I’ve wondered if this last bit of the psalm was there as a way of getting those feelings out of their systems.


    Except it isn't doing unto them - it's doing unto an innocent child who has the misfortune to be theirs. My head can't get round a mindset of "you killed my child so payback is me killing yours" - that's so fucked up it's beyond comprehension.

    I'm not convinced that's what the psalm's about anyway. I think it's a reflection of a culture so fucked up it actually did think that way - that's why it also produced the story of God punishing David by killing his baby son.

    I need to go and lie down now. The evil of this whole mindset has given me the shakes.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    I used the "dasheth" as a nod to the psalm, but the real allusion was to stories of a populace turning against a now-hated tyrant. The specific atrocity is shown in a scene at the end of the porn movie Caligula.

    FWIW, I agree with @KarlLB that the psalm is irredeemable, and I think the only reason anyone bothers trying is a residual hangover from sola scriptura that the bible couldn't possibly contain crap.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited April 3
    A hostly note that this particular tangent may be better carried out in another place, maybe Kergymania.

    Please return to ranting about the subject of the thread.

    -- chrisstiles, Hell Host
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    So, tariffs. The American economy is the greatest generator of wealth the world has ever seen, and Trump is doing his best to destroy it. All because he does not understand the concepts of cooperation and a win-win deal.
  • betjemaniacbetjemaniac Shipmate
    edited April 3
    Tbh as a sometime classicist, and British, this whole situation in terms of the effect on Britain (can’t speak for the rest of the world), is something like 410 AD when the emperor Honorius told Roman Britain to ‘look to your own defences’ - the de facto end of the pax Romana in these islands.
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    So, tariffs. The American economy is the greatest generator of wealth the world has ever seen, and Trump is doing his best to destroy it. All because he does not understand the concepts of cooperation and a win-win deal.

    I think it's a bit more than that. I think it's part of an ongoing effort to achieve a MAGA-loyal oligarchy in the U.S. Lots of businesspeople here are just going to go along with it, begrudgingly or otherwise, like those who went along with Fascism in the 30s and 40s.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Maybe. He's just wiped trillions of dollars from their accounts.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    So, tariffs. The American economy is the greatest generator of wealth the world has ever seen, and Trump is doing his best to destroy it. All because he does not understand the concepts of cooperation and a win-win deal.

    On the one hand this will probably displace Brexit as the most economically self-damaging action by a prosperous democracy in the 21st century. On the other hand it’s been argued that Trump’s tariffs aren’t economic policy, they’re a way to force obedience from America's business interests.
    But the private sector also plays a rule to protect democracy. Independent industry has power.

    The tariffs are Trump’s tool to erode that independence. Now, one by one, every industry or company will need to pledge loyalty to Trump in order to get sanctions relief.

    What could Trump demand as part of a quiet loyalty pledge?

    Public shows of support from executives for all his economic policy. Contributions to his political efforts. Promises to police employees’ support for his political opposition.

    The tariffs are DESIGNED to create economic hardship. Why? So that Trump has a straight face rationale for releasing them, business by business or industry by industry.

    As he adjusts or grants relief, it’s a win-win: the economy improves and dissent disappears.

    The tl;dr version is that those loyal to Trump will receive tariff relief while those who are insufficiently obsequious will suffer economically.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    But does Murphy think that Trump is going to reward/punish according to industry, or according to company?

    IOW, is it "The drug companies are mostly playing ball, so I'll give them exemptions?" Or "Phizer is playing ball, so I'll give them an exemption?"
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    Maybe Trump does not plan to release the tariffs at all. Maybe he wants to create economic hardship and resentment - maybe he thinks those febrile, chaotic conditions will allow him to move even faster and break even more things.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Crœsos wrote: »
    On the other hand it’s been argued that Trump’s tariffs aren’t economic policy, they’re a way to force obedience from America's business interests.
    I am reminded of the Knives Out sequel, where the plot turns on the fact that the detective thought one character - oddly reminiscent of one Elon Musk - is known to be a genius and therefore would not have done something really stupid. Then the detective realises that in fact the character is a charlatan who is good at taking credit for other people's work and getting them to be complicit with him and is otherwise not a genius at all.

    "It's so dumb it's brilliant."
    "No! It's just dumb!"
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    The economist Adam Tooze made a similar point in his newsletter last month where he warned against trying to 'sanewash' the administration's policy:

    https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/chartbook-363-stockholm-syndrome

    For the other take, which is the one he indicates earlier in his piece (the reference to Stephen Miran), this is a recent primer on Miran's paper:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ts5wJ6OfzA
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    But does Murphy think that Trump is going to reward/punish according to industry, or according to company?

    IOW, is it "The drug companies are mostly playing ball, so I'll give them exemptions?" Or "Phizer is playing ball, so I'll give them an exemption?"

    I can't speak for Senator Murphy, but my guess is any tariff relief granted by Trump will be according to whoever slips the most money into his pockets. He's already allegedly selling pardons so this isn't that much of a reach.
    What the president neglected to mention were some relevant details about [ convicted fraudster Trevor ] Milton and his case. For example, as CNBC’s report noted, following his criminal sentencing, the former Nikola CEO “made significant political donations to Trump and his allies. This included $920,000 to the Trump 47 Committee in October of 2024, and $750,000 in September to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s MAHA Alliance political action committee.”

    Before his conviction, Milton had never before made a campaign contribution, but for some reason, he became quite generous in late 2024.

    Read on from there if you want more details.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Something odd happened the day Trump signed the EO instituting the tariffs. He had just made the announcement showing the graph listing the tariffs, then he was to walk over to the desk to sign the order, but he walked away from the desk, and had to be guided back to the desk. Video here.. Now, it does look like the aide that took him back to the desk, put a manila file on the desk, but usually the executive orders he has signed in the past are in a black leather binder which was on the table. X blew up with speculation that it has to do with his mental acuity .

    The White House said Trump had to go to the aid to get the actual papers he had to sign. But, would that have been an example of sanewashing (a new term, it seems)?

    Now, I am refraining from making any long-distance diagnosis. Just saying it was an odd situation.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    I find myself thinking of C.S. Lewis’s The Last Battle with Trump as Shift. But who are Ginger and Rishda Tarkaan?
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    Elon Musk could be either of them.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Presumably the Religious Right are the Dwarves.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    edited April 4
    Can I remind posters outside the US to be sensitive in how they joke about the internal politics of the US? US residents are welcome to go ahead.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    BroJames wrote: »
    I find myself thinking of C.S. Lewis’s The Last Battle with Trump as Shift.

    Wouldn't that be nice. But I don't see Tirian on the horizon. Never mind Aslan. The people with the power to stop Trump won't do it.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited April 5
    How did the Trump administration determine the tariffs for each country, especially for those uninhabited islands near Antartica?

    Here is an explanation by Norris Peterson, Professor Emeritus from Pacific Lutheran University, who happens to be the father of my daughter in law, and Sammy's other gramps.
    Many of you know that I was a professor of economics for over 40 years, so it will come as no shock that I have an opinion about Trump's tariffs. They're destructive in many ways. (See the excellent analysis in yesterday's Conversable Economist blog) But this post will highlight just how silly the administration was in determining each country's unique tariff rate, equal to one half the deficit in trade of goods divided by imports. Consider the following analogy:

    Suppose Mary and I could be a country that engages in buying and selling with others. For convenience, call us "US" for short. One of our trading partners is Safeway, where we do most of our grocery shopping. Consider them the equivalent of a small country with which US trades.

    US currently has a trade deficit in goods with Safeway of about $5000, "importing" $5000 and "exporting" $0. This is clearly unfair, isn't it? According to the method the administration used to figure tariff rates, we should divide the deficit by the amount of our imports, then cut that in half. That is, the tariff rate should be 1/2 x 5000/5000, or 50%.

    So, to punish Safeway for their unfair trade deficit, US could continue to buy $5000 of groceries from them, and then pay $2500 in taxes (tariffs are levied on the importer, in this case US). Or, as the administration seems to hope, I could grow all my food at home, thereby "creating jobs." Or maybe Safeway will cut all its prices in half to prevent me from doing just that.

    It gets even crazier: the government counts only trade in goods toward the deficit, not services. Suppose that I currently have a $10,000 consulting contract with Safeway, so that US actually has a net $5000 trade surplus (in goods and services) with Safeway. Under the current regime, that doesn't matter; Safeway would still be considered an unfair trading partner subject to a 50% tariff.

    In setting rates, the administration faced a daunting task of trying to value so-called non-tariff barriers, but their solution wildly misses the mark.

    Facebook posting 4/4/25
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    I don't get the feeling they even attempted that daunting task.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited April 5
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    How did the Trump administration determine the tariffs for each country, especially for those uninhabited islands near Antartica?

    Facebook posting 4/4/25

    I usually find Facebook to be several days late and several embellishments deep. Point 4 in the referenced blog link points to James Surowiecki's tweet here, which describes the calculation much more succinctly:

    https://x.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1907559189234196942

    Rohit Krishnan pointed out you'd get identical results by asking a number of different LLMs to provide a function for calculating tariffs, so they either asked an LLM or used the same source that the LLMs used for training.

    The reason there are tariffs for uninhabited islands is that they used a list of internet top level domains to generate their country list (Reunion (.re) and Gibraltar (.gi) being listed separately from France and UK).

  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    I trust that when Trump pays his eagerly-anticipated visit to this country, the streets will be lined by cheering crowds,all waving the flag of Canada.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Filing this under the Who in the Hell is Laura Loomer.

    Ms. Loomer is a hard right wingnut that has the ear of the guy in the White House. She came into prominence after 9-11 saying it was all a conspiracy saying it was an inside job--though I am not sure what it all involved. She has said the xchool shootings were staged by the Democrats in order to retain power. She is the one who told Trump Haitian immigrants in Ohio were eating dogs. She is a protégé of Alex Jones' Infowars . Even Margorie Tyler Green things she is crazy. She is very anti Muslim at that.

    Somehow, she got past the White House security ban on her and spoke to the orange guy, telling him the head of the National Security Agency, a four-star Gen. Timothy Haugh, also the head of the US Cybersecurity Command, and his deputy Windy Noble who has had a long career in the intelligence community for being disloyal to Trump. Borth Haugh and Noble had taken an oath to defend the Constitution. There is no loyalty oath to whomever is behind the Resolute Desk.

    Ms Loomer sent out a social media post saying: “NSA Director Tim Haugh and his deputy Wendy Noble have been disloyal to President Trump. That is why they have been fired. As a Biden appointee, General Haugh had no place serving in the Trump admin given the fact that he was HAND PICKED by General Milley.” She went on, “Thank you President Trump for being receptive to the vetting materials provided to you and thank you for firing these Biden holdovers.”

    Now, I have to ask, who benefits from these firings. Certainly not the American people, nor our allies. Three, maybe four, countries come to mind: China, Iran, North Korea, and Russia. Seems like all any of them have to do is feed Ms Loomer false information, and she does the rest. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-administration-fires-director-of-national-security-agency/ar-AA1CgQVy?ocid=BingNewsSerp

    And, why is it Trump is demanding Le Pen of France should be released from prison? I
    think the French government should demand El Salvadorian Kilmar Abrego Garcia should be released from prison too. He is the man who was detained and removed to the prison in El Salvador while under a protection order issued in the US. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-was-sent-el-salvador-due-administrative-error-protected-legal-stat-rcna199010

    Thank you to the military, government and people of Lithuania for showing respect for the American soldiers who drowned in a training accident when the remains were being returned to the United States. Our erstwhile leader was asked if he knew what happened, he said he had not heard about it. And did he attend the Dignified Transfer of the bodies at Dover AFB? No. Now, in truth, he is not required to do so, but since the people of Lithuania showed their respect, it would stand to reason tRump could do the same. Instead he attended a golf tournament hosted by Saudi Arabia in Florida and dined out with friends in Mar A Lago. When asked about it, Senator Mark Kelly remarked, "Don't put anything in the way between Trump and the first tee." Certainly, a slap in the face of the families that lost their loved ones. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/donald-trump-ridiculed-for-skipping-dignified-transfer-of-4-fallen-soldiers-to-attend-golf-tournament/ar-AA1Ck3U4?ocid=BingNewsSerp

    Excuse me, now I am late for the Hands Off rally downtown.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    Apparently Mme Lepen is a bit embarrassed about having Trump trying to defend her.
  • Ex_OrganistEx_Organist Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »

    Thank you to the military, government and people of Lithuania for showing respect for the American soldiers who drowned in a training accident when the remains were being returned to the United States.

    I notice that those showing such respect included the head of the Russian Orthodox Church in Lithuania: https://orthochristian.com/168718.html
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Excuse me, now I am late for the Hands Off rally downtown.

    I hope the rally in your city was as amazing as the many rallies that took place here, @Gramps49

    There were a very few trump supporters that showed up. They were far outnumbered by the Hands Off folks. :smiley:

    It's encouraging to see so many people here in this deep red city protesting against the insanity in Washington.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    jedijudy wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Excuse me, now I am late for the Hands Off rally downtown.

    I hope the rally in your city was as amazing as the many rallies that took place here, @Gramps49

    There were a very few trump supporters that showed up. They were far outnumbered by the Hands Off folks. :smiley:

    It's encouraging to see so many people here in this deep red city protesting against the insanity in Washington.

    What city are you in?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited April 6
    I would say there were close to a thousand people at the Hands Off protest here in Pullman, WA. No MAGA counter protests anywhere. We were on the busiest street in town. Many cars and vehicles honked; several passengers waved. Police presence was minimal. It seemed they were more concerned with traffic control.

    Best sign I saw,
    No one is illegal
    On Stolen Land.
    (sign held by a Native American).

    A meme I saw on Facebook
    Largest protest in history
    No Capitol attacked
    No Police officers harmed./quote]

    Opened the paper this afternoon. One of my friends had several limericks published.Two of them here.
    Our new president named Donald J Trump
    Threw Free Trade right into the dump
    Despite all our labors
    And those of our neighbors
    Our economy ended up in a slump.

    While sitting on the edge of his bed
    Trump must have bumped his red head.
    For he imposed new trade duties.
    And proclaimed, "They are real beauties."
    But the economy dropped over dead.

    by Edward Schweitzer III
    President of Schweitzer Electrical Laboratories
    Pullman, WA

    Published in The Spokesman Review, Apr. 6, 2025
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host
    @stetson, since I had already posted where I live after Hurricane Ian, I'm not worried about letting you know!
    I'm in Fort Myers, FL.

    I was one of the few who had a Kamala Harris sign in my yard...until Hurricane Helene blew it who knows where. A neighbor down the block is actually Republican, but she called me to thank me for having put the sign up. She can't abide trump, but was afraid to put a Harris sign in her own yard. Which is so sad. We are continuing to discuss the situation as the orange menace becomes more and more evil and cruel.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    @jedijudy

    Thanks. And, yes, encouraging.

    The Atlantic has an article up called Trump Has Already Botched His Own Tariff Plan, which goes some way to explaining the internal logic, but also the contradictions, of Trump's trade policy.

    (I couldn't access the article myself, but Adam Mockler has a good summary of it on YouTube.)
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    The Atlantic has an article up called Trump Has Already Botched His Own Tariff Plan, which goes some way to explaining the internal logic, but also the contradictions, of Trump's trade policy.

    I have a subscription -- here's a gift link.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    The Atlantic has an article up called Trump Has Already Botched His Own Tariff Plan, which goes some way to explaining the internal logic, but also the contradictions, of Trump's trade policy.

    I have a subscription -- here's a gift link.

    Thank you very much.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    My money, what's left of it, is on him ending up begging the rest of the world to come negotiate with him, but the world will just move on without him.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    My money, what's left of it, is on him ending up begging the rest of the world to come negotiate with him, but the world will just move on without him.

    Sadly that means without us. It's going to take decades to repair the damage.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited April 6
    I think the rest of the world will negotiate, and will probably try to give him the opportunity to save face - but some of that will likely be tied to American military aid to the Ukraine and him ceasing to threaten invasion of Canada and Greenland (though such a condition might not be made public.)
  • stetson wrote: »
    @jedijudy

    Thanks. And, yes, encouraging.

    The Atlantic has an article up called Trump Has Already Botched His Own Tariff Plan, which goes some way to explaining the internal logic, but also the contradictions, of Trump's trade policy.

    (I couldn't access the article myself, but Adam Mockler has a good summary of it on YouTube.)

    Thank you for that. I could actually understand it, which is a first for me, in relation to tariffs and onshoring.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Regards the Tariffs. Good news may be on the horizon: Forbes re ports a lawsuit has been filed against the use of emergency powers under which tRump issued his tariffs. This may give us some breathing room if the tariffs are thrown out and it winds through the appeals process. Congress may just wake up during this time. Would love to see a woke Congress.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Rachel Maddow spins a story of how Trump selected his first economic advisor. He did not have anyone, so he asked his son in law to find one. Story is quite interesting.
  • Ex_OrganistEx_Organist Shipmate
    Eirenist wrote: »
    I trust that when Trump pays his eagerly-anticipated visit to this country, the streets will be lined by cheering crowds,all waving the flag of Canada.

    Perhaos one might hope that with the King's ongoing medical treatment and Trump's urgent appointments with various golf courses, there might be a problem in actually scheduling such a state visit in the next three years.

    Altermatively, surely a better reception would be empty streets. Or silent streets with the people turning their backs on Trump (holding Canadian and Greenland flags would be a bonus).

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