This is the sort of soap opera the clickbait-addicted media loves. This is why they just ADORE Trump and have been pushing him for years and years and years.
Even before Trump takes the oath, he is a lame duck. He cannot run again. His physical and mental health are questionable. I think--hope--core Republicans will start pulling away from him.
Trump is a symptom, not a cause. The underlying discontent he has so ably tapped will still be there to be exploited by the next populist would-be dictator who comes along. Republicans may start pulling away from him, but they will continue to court the people who voted for him in much the same way as he has done.
A former barrister will not have shaken hands with criminals after they have been convicted. Until then, his client will have been a defendant, and his contact through an instructing solicitor. And Sir Keir, as DPP, is unlikely to have shaken hands with such a person. His client will have been the 'Crown'.
A client with previous convictions is still a criminal
Will he go off-script, as on campaign? Could be interesting.
The visit may, or may not, take place, but I suppose it is a dose of unpleasant medicine which, for the sake of our *special relationship* needs to be swallowed. I don't envy the PM or the Foreign Secretary their task, and the King may not be too keen, either.
HM: O dear O dear, here we go again.
DJT: How's your mother, Chuck? I'd like to meet her once more.
I expect there will be a reasonable attendance by the right-wing parties, with Farage brown-nosing his hero, but there may be some diplomatic absences from the government and LibDem/Green benches...
A fairly impressive anti-Trump demo (O look! The bigliest crowds come out to greet Me!) is also likely.
I think we should expect a maelstrom of activity right away, beginning with the suspension or counteracting of any extant Biden Executive Orders and initiatives, and immediate directives re: a bevy of issues, not the least of which will include the southern border and killing arms shipments to Ukraine and expediting and increasing arms shipments to Israel.
My Pilates instructor and her family went to Disneyland (Orlando) just before the election, and said that, although people were talking about it, it was all very low-key. Maybe that was due to the number of foreign tourists present?
OTOH, I'd hazard a guess, and say that many of the employees might well be fearful, now that Trump is back.
That said, we are in Anaheim at the moment. Only one person waving a Trump flag. In and around the Disney area they are ignoring the election result.
Not sure what you're expecting to see in Anaheim. There's nothing to tell a tourist wandering around my city there was an election earlier week except a few signs people haven't taken down yet.
I've had a MAGA member of my church choir (and a huge supporter of RFK, Jr.) send me a few video montages of Harris supporters having breakdowns on their IG or TikTok channels. Accompanying these videos are his analyses of the posters. They are... exactly as you'd expect from someone who's resumed styling himself after Tr*mp. I sent this to him, snipped from a longer reply:
"You’re characterizing them as being irrational relative to what you believe to be important or meaningful.
They are not like you.
What’s important or meaningful to them are, clearly, very different things than what you value. I don’t know why that isn’t more clear.
Again, you don’t get to assign values to other people’s lives. Using a false dichotomy (rational/irrational) to justify your plain, open ridicule of their distress is what we as a society used to call “mean.” Few call it that anymore because, among other reasons, we’ve had a celebrity President give half of the country tacit permission to be plainly, openly mean, because he himself has been plainly, openly mean under the guise of doing so for you — on your behalf — because life has been so very mean to you, and for some reason you haven’t been able to respond for yourself. But he’s showed you how, now, and encouraged you to join him, but oddly not on behalf of yourselves, but for him.
It’s, uh… quite something. But one thing is really isn’t is anything close to a legitimate, objective, learnéd assessment of rationality or irrationality. It’s just, mean.
Just say you’re being mean because it feels good to you, and you like it. At least that’d have the benefit of being honest."
I thought there might be a bit more not much but more than one person with a flag celebrating. We are staying at an off site hotel so walk down a busy street every day.
I appreciate that what I am going to say will not be popular.
Donald Trump is going to be a bit different this time. I think he will be a bit more relaxed.
He has achieved what he set out to do and he has no more elections to win.
He has more than enough money but he lacks appreciation.
I believe that he wants to leave a legacy. He wants to go down in history as a good president.
Some of the things he has threatened to do might not happen.
There's nothing to tell a tourist wandering around my city there was an election earlier week except a few signs people haven't taken down yet.
That seems to be the case here too. At least we won't be bombarded any longer by those hateful, spiteful, cruel TV ads. It's back to prescription drugs and Medicare Supplement salesmen.
@The_Riv thsnk you for sharing some of your response to the MAGA person. That is the essence of it: that an aggressively mean President gave tacit permission to his followers to unleash their worst impulses.
I’m not looking forward to this ugliness taking center stage again.
He can't run in 2028. The 22nd amendment to the Constitution established term limits for the president. As for reversing the amendment, see the following, from which I quote::
The Constitution provides that an amendment may be proposed either by the Congress with a two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate or by a constitutional convention called for by two-thirds of the State legislatures. . . . Since the President does not have a constitutional role in the amendment process, the joint resolution does not go to the White House for signature or approval. . . . The Archivist submits the proposed amendment to the States for their consideration. . . . The Governors then formally submit the amendment to their State legislatures or the state calls for a convention. . . . A proposed amendment becomes part of the Constitution as soon as it is ratified by three-fourths of the States.
Read all the posts. I was refering to Vance in 2028
It's already been pointed out that the Democrats in particular don't renominate candidates who have lost a general election (not since Adlai Stevenson). But it's also worth emphasizing something you may already know and may have been said on this or another thread - there is no Leader of the Opposition in the US. Political parties here don't even really have official leaders. They have national committee chairs, whose main job is organizing their convention every four years, fundraising, and coordinating with the state parties. When a party has a president in office, that person tends to set the direction of policy and messaging for the whole party - but not in an official sense as the "leader" of the party. And the party outside the White House (which may or may not control one or both Houses of Congress) spends a good three years after losing a Presidential election before it has Presidential nominee to unite around again. It's not very conducive to effective party strategy.
Trump is an anomaly in this regard, as in so many others. Ever since he won the nomination in 2016, he has been the de facto leader of his party, and since he regained dominance over the party after the vanishingly short period in which leaders like Mitch McConnell hoped they were rid of him after Jan. 6, he has managed to exert a level of control over the party unlike anything in modern American politics. I think that even if Trump had not been indicted (which perversely ended whatever hope DeSantis or anyone else had of winning the primary), Trump probably would have won the primary anyway.
He can't run in 2028. The 22nd amendment to the Constitution established term limits for the president. As for reversing the amendment, see the following, from which I quote::
The Constitution provides that an amendment may be proposed either by the Congress with a two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate or by a constitutional convention called for by two-thirds of the State legislatures. . . . Since the President does not have a constitutional role in the amendment process, the joint resolution does not go to the White House for signature or approval. . . . The Archivist submits the proposed amendment to the States for their consideration. . . . The Governors then formally submit the amendment to their State legislatures or the state calls for a convention. . . . A proposed amendment becomes part of the Constitution as soon as it is ratified by three-fourths of the States.
Read all the posts. I was refering to Vance in 2028
It's already been pointed out that the Democrats in particular don't renominate candidates who have lost a general election (not since Adlai Stevenson). But it's also worth emphasizing something you may already know and may have been said on this or another thread - there is no Leader of the Opposition in the US. Political parties here don't even really have official leaders. They have national committee chairs, whose main job is organizing their convention every four years, fundraising, and coordinating with the state parties. When a party has a president in office, that person tends to set the direction of policy and messaging for the whole party - but not in an official sense as the "leader" of the party. And the party outside the White House (which may or may not control one or both Houses of Congress) spends a good three years after losing a Presidential election before it has Presidential nominee to unite around again. It's not very conducive to effective party strategy.
Trump is an anomaly in this regard, as in so many others. Ever since he won the nomination in 2016, he has been the de facto leader of his party, and since he regained dominance over the party after the vanishingly short period in which leaders like Mitch McConnell hoped they were rid of him after Jan. 6, he has managed to exert a level of control over the party unlike anything in modern American politics. I think that even if Trump had not been indicted (which perversely ended whatever hope DeSantis or anyone else had of winning the primary), Trump probably would have won the primary anyway.
Thanks for all that. I was actually being sarcastic about Harris in 2028
About Trump in 2028: the 22nd Amendment prohibits him from running, but I can see SCOTUS finding a way to interpret that as more of a guideline than a rule. Otherwise he's a lame duck after the midterms, when the Senate map looks a lot better for Democrats. He will probably have caused sufficient chaos by that point to give the Dems a decent chance of retaking Congress.
About Trump in 2028: the 22nd Amendment prohibits him from running, but I can see SCOTUS finding a way to interpret that as more of a guideline than a rule. Otherwise he's a lame duck after the midterms, when the Senate map looks a lot better for Democrats. He will probably have caused sufficient chaos by that point to give the Dems a decent chance of retaking Congress.
Yeah, I think the Democrats are going to need an "obstruct, resist, delay" strategy for at least the next two years and hope to avoid the worst while pushing for a blue wave in 2026.
Donald Trump is going to be a bit different this time. I think he will be a bit more relaxed.
I agree with the first part, but disagree with the second. He has been there before, so there’ll be no settling period where he has to learn the ropes, he will hit the ground running and just get straight on with whatever he wants to do
He has achieved what he set out to do and he has no more elections to win.
That’s what scares me. It’s because he no more elections to win that he won’t give a shit what he does because he doesn’t have to worry about being re-elected
I believe that he wants to leave a legacy. He wants to go down in history as a good president.
I’m sure Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Putin etc all thought the same
Some of the things he has threatened to do might not happen.
You may be right and I hope you are. On the other hand, they might happen and that’s what scares the shit out of me
I appreciate that what I am going to say will not be popular.
Donald Trump is going to be a bit different this time. I think he will be a bit more relaxed.
He has achieved what he set out to do and he has no more elections to win.
He has more than enough money but he lacks appreciation.
I believe that he wants to leave a legacy. He wants to go down in history as a good president.
Some of the things he has threatened to do might not happen.
No, he hasn't 'achieved what he set out to do.' Winning the election isn't an end in itself but a means to an end. He was blocked and thwarted during his first term and in his mind, and the minds of many of his supporters, cheated out of a second term at the end of it.
No, he's not going to rest on his laurels. He's going to want to push through the agenda he was promoting last time.
It's not so much that your comment will be 'unpopular' @Telford but that it's lacking in insight because you have failed to read the runes.
There may well be some restraint within the Trunp camp, particularly when it comes to trade deals with countries deemed 'friendly', such as Canada, Mexico and the UK. We might not be hit as heavily by hefty tariffs as those countries deemed less 'friendly.'
But who knows?
He'll undoubtedly start a trade war with China, increase support for Netanyahu and look to broker some kind of deal between Russian and Ukraine whereby the latter concedes some territory.
He is also very likely to deport plenty of people and that in a very draconian way. The only question at this stage is the scale and extent of that.
The guy is highly unpredictable. The only predictable thing about this is that it's going to cause upheaval. Significantly.
The world could become an even more dangerous place. There'll be a kick-back against environmentalism and issues deemed liberal and progressive.
He's not going to spend the next 4 years playing golf.
I emailed an American priest friend for his reaction. He replied that he was sad but not surprised at the outcome of the election but that we should all be prepared to be both saddened and surprised by what happens next.
I don't want to prolong a tangent, bui I don'i recollect any barrister in the criminal courts shaking hands with a lay client. Or with a humble solicitor like me, for that matter.
From the sounds of it, all Federal cases will be dropped. The New York conviction may even be thrown out, and the Georgian trial will likely run out of steam, since it is largely moot now. Trump will end up free and clear, so you Brits can feel free to shake his hand--if you want.
From the sounds of it, all Federal cases will be dropped. The New York conviction may even be thrown out, and the Georgian trial will likely run out of steam, since it is largely moot now. Trump will end up free and clear, so you Brits can feel free to shake his hand--if you want.
But count your fingers and wipe off the fake tan afterwards.
Just remember you’ll have no idea how long it will have been since he grabbed a woman in the p****, or whether yours or a woman’s near you will be next.
@Telford might turn out to be right in saying that some of the evil things Trump has promised/threatened may not happen.
The scale of the logistics involved in (say) mass deportations may thwart his wickedness and cruelty, and there may be greater resistance and general civil disobedience than he has bargained for.
I appreciate that I'm perhaps clutching at straws, and that the very thought of what this truly awful man wishes to do is already causing untold misery and distress to the millions under threat.
It's not so much that your comment will be 'unpopular' @Telford but that it's lacking in insight because you have failed to read the runes.
I have read my runes and I disagree with you.
The only way Tr*mp doesn’t follow through with most if not all of what he talked about during the campaign is if he convinces all of MAGA there’s something ‘better’ than that.
Here are the top 24 things Trump has promised to do--according to NPR.
No 5. “I will terminate the Green New Scam, and end the electric vehicle mandate.”
Yet his best mate owns one of the largest manufacturers of EVs.
The wording there is so scary - either he believes the conspiracy theory that climate change was invented to enable "them" to raise taxes and control movements, or he wants the people who do believe this bullshit to think he does too.
The problem with the "Trump has done all he wants to do" idea is that it no longer matters what Trump wants. He is the puppet of the 0.1% and they are using him as a puppet to achieve their own ends. Project 2025 is what matters now, not what Trump may or may not want. Once he's inaugurated, he's thrown aside as irrelevant, except to be held up as a marionette of the real powers.
The problem with the "Trump has done all he wants to do" idea is that it no longer matters what Trump wants. He is the puppet of the 0.1% and they are using him as a puppet to achieve their own ends. Project 2025 is what matters now, not what Trump may or may not want. Once he's inaugurated, he's thrown aside as irrelevant, except to be held up as a marionette of the real powers.
I wonder if, deep down, he realises this to be true?
I appreciate that what I am going to say will not be popular.
Donald Trump is going to be a bit different this time. I think he will be a bit more relaxed.
He has achieved what he set out to do and he has no more elections to win.
He has more than enough money but he lacks appreciation.
I believe that he wants to leave a legacy. He wants to go down in history as a good president.
Some of the things he has threatened to do might not happen.
No, he hasn't 'achieved what he set out to do.' Winning the election isn't an end in itself but a means to an end.
Yes and no.
Trump, whose “things he cares about” begin and end with himself, had two ends to achieve. The first was to prove that he’s not a loser, because he had drummed into him from an early age that that’s the worst thing possible and not an option for him. So winning the election was indeed an end in itself there.
The other was to avoid going to jail, to make the federal criminal cases against him go away. By winning the election, he has achieved that end.
The problem with the "Trump has done all he wants to do" idea is that it no longer matters what Trump wants. He is the puppet of the 0.1% and they are using him as a puppet to achieve their own ends. Project 2025 is what matters now, not what Trump may or may not want. Once he's inaugurated, he's thrown aside as irrelevant, except to be held up as a marionette of the real powers.
Aye, there’s the rub. The question is whether his puppeteers will successfully play on his ego or whether his ego will tangle their strings. I suspect “both” is a real possibility.
I know this is Hell, but can we please not make any jokes about assassination attempts against any presidential candidate, even one we think is dangerous?
Seems to me we've been told precious little about that whole situation since they detained the alleged shooter. I mean, I haven't looked very hard, but incredibly, that shooting barely lasted one news cycle and was gone. Compared to something like the coverage of hurricane damage in NC that assassination attempt was barely a blip.
Seems to me we've been told precious little about that whole situation since they detained the alleged shooter. I mean, I haven't looked very hard, but incredibly, that shooting barely lasted one news cycle and was gone. Compared to something like the coverage of hurricane damage in NC that assassination attempt was barely a blip.
The Republican National Convention started a couple of days after the first (I can’t believe I’m writing first) assassination attempt.
Biden dropped out of the race a week later. The media could barely keep up.
Comments
Trump is a symptom, not a cause. The underlying discontent he has so ably tapped will still be there to be exploited by the next populist would-be dictator who comes along. Republicans may start pulling away from him, but they will continue to court the people who voted for him in much the same way as he has done.
The visit may, or may not, take place, but I suppose it is a dose of unpleasant medicine which, for the sake of our *special relationship* needs to be swallowed. I don't envy the PM or the Foreign Secretary their task, and the King may not be too keen, either.
HM: O dear O dear, here we go again.
DJT: How's your mother, Chuck? I'd like to meet her once more.
I expect there will be a reasonable attendance by the right-wing parties, with Farage brown-nosing his hero, but there may be some diplomatic absences from the government and LibDem/Green benches...
A fairly impressive anti-Trump demo (O look! The bigliest crowds come out to greet Me!) is also likely.
I assume that people don't go there for politics
My Pilates instructor and her family went to Disneyland (Orlando) just before the election, and said that, although people were talking about it, it was all very low-key. Maybe that was due to the number of foreign tourists present?
OTOH, I'd hazard a guess, and say that many of the employees might well be fearful, now that Trump is back.
"You’re characterizing them as being irrational relative to what you believe to be important or meaningful.
They are not like you.
What’s important or meaningful to them are, clearly, very different things than what you value. I don’t know why that isn’t more clear.
Again, you don’t get to assign values to other people’s lives. Using a false dichotomy (rational/irrational) to justify your plain, open ridicule of their distress is what we as a society used to call “mean.” Few call it that anymore because, among other reasons, we’ve had a celebrity President give half of the country tacit permission to be plainly, openly mean, because he himself has been plainly, openly mean under the guise of doing so for you — on your behalf — because life has been so very mean to you, and for some reason you haven’t been able to respond for yourself. But he’s showed you how, now, and encouraged you to join him, but oddly not on behalf of yourselves, but for him.
It’s, uh… quite something. But one thing is really isn’t is anything close to a legitimate, objective, learnéd assessment of rationality or irrationality. It’s just, mean.
Just say you’re being mean because it feels good to you, and you like it. At least that’d have the benefit of being honest."
Donald Trump is going to be a bit different this time. I think he will be a bit more relaxed.
He has achieved what he set out to do and he has no more elections to win.
He has more than enough money but he lacks appreciation.
I believe that he wants to leave a legacy. He wants to go down in history as a good president.
Some of the things he has threatened to do might not happen.
That seems to be the case here too. At least we won't be bombarded any longer by those hateful, spiteful, cruel TV ads. It's back to prescription drugs and Medicare Supplement salesmen.
Oh, he'll leave a legacy all right. Question is, will there be a country still standing for him to leave it in.
I’m not looking forward to this ugliness taking center stage again.
It's already been pointed out that the Democrats in particular don't renominate candidates who have lost a general election (not since Adlai Stevenson). But it's also worth emphasizing something you may already know and may have been said on this or another thread - there is no Leader of the Opposition in the US. Political parties here don't even really have official leaders. They have national committee chairs, whose main job is organizing their convention every four years, fundraising, and coordinating with the state parties. When a party has a president in office, that person tends to set the direction of policy and messaging for the whole party - but not in an official sense as the "leader" of the party. And the party outside the White House (which may or may not control one or both Houses of Congress) spends a good three years after losing a Presidential election before it has Presidential nominee to unite around again. It's not very conducive to effective party strategy.
Trump is an anomaly in this regard, as in so many others. Ever since he won the nomination in 2016, he has been the de facto leader of his party, and since he regained dominance over the party after the vanishingly short period in which leaders like Mitch McConnell hoped they were rid of him after Jan. 6, he has managed to exert a level of control over the party unlike anything in modern American politics. I think that even if Trump had not been indicted (which perversely ended whatever hope DeSantis or anyone else had of winning the primary), Trump probably would have won the primary anyway.
Thanks for all that. I was actually being sarcastic about Harris in 2028
Yeah, I think the Democrats are going to need an "obstruct, resist, delay" strategy for at least the next two years and hope to avoid the worst while pushing for a blue wave in 2026.
You may be right and I hope you are. On the other hand, they might happen and that’s what scares the shit out of me
No, he hasn't 'achieved what he set out to do.' Winning the election isn't an end in itself but a means to an end. He was blocked and thwarted during his first term and in his mind, and the minds of many of his supporters, cheated out of a second term at the end of it.
No, he's not going to rest on his laurels. He's going to want to push through the agenda he was promoting last time.
It's not so much that your comment will be 'unpopular' @Telford but that it's lacking in insight because you have failed to read the runes.
There may well be some restraint within the Trunp camp, particularly when it comes to trade deals with countries deemed 'friendly', such as Canada, Mexico and the UK. We might not be hit as heavily by hefty tariffs as those countries deemed less 'friendly.'
But who knows?
He'll undoubtedly start a trade war with China, increase support for Netanyahu and look to broker some kind of deal between Russian and Ukraine whereby the latter concedes some territory.
He is also very likely to deport plenty of people and that in a very draconian way. The only question at this stage is the scale and extent of that.
The guy is highly unpredictable. The only predictable thing about this is that it's going to cause upheaval. Significantly.
The world could become an even more dangerous place. There'll be a kick-back against environmentalism and issues deemed liberal and progressive.
He's not going to spend the next 4 years playing golf.
I emailed an American priest friend for his reaction. He replied that he was sad but not surprised at the outcome of the election but that we should all be prepared to be both saddened and surprised by what happens next.
But count your fingers and wipe off the fake tan afterwards.
The scale of the logistics involved in (say) mass deportations may thwart his wickedness and cruelty, and there may be greater resistance and general civil disobedience than he has bargained for.
I appreciate that I'm perhaps clutching at straws, and that the very thought of what this truly awful man wishes to do is already causing untold misery and distress to the millions under threat.
The only way Tr*mp doesn’t follow through with most if not all of what he talked about during the campaign is if he convinces all of MAGA there’s something ‘better’ than that.
Number 1....After 4 years he will still have not removed all the criminals
No 5. “I will terminate the Green New Scam, and end the electric vehicle mandate.”
Yet his best mate owns one of the largest manufacturers of EVs.
The wording there is so scary - either he believes the conspiracy theory that climate change was invented to enable "them" to raise taxes and control movements, or he wants the people who do believe this bullshit to think he does too.
Dafyd Hell Host
Who wudda thunk it.
I wonder if, deep down, he realises this to be true?
Trump, whose “things he cares about” begin and end with himself, had two ends to achieve. The first was to prove that he’s not a loser, because he had drummed into him from an early age that that’s the worst thing possible and not an option for him. So winning the election was indeed an end in itself there.
The other was to avoid going to jail, to make the federal criminal cases against him go away. By winning the election, he has achieved that end.
Aye, there’s the rub. The question is whether his puppeteers will successfully play on his ego or whether his ego will tangle their strings. I suspect “both” is a real possibility.
Speaking of which, what do you make of the alleged Iranian plot to assassinate DJT?
I know this is Hell, but can we please not make any jokes about assassination attempts against any presidential candidate, even one we think is dangerous?
The Republican National Convention started a couple of days after the first (I can’t believe I’m writing first) assassination attempt.
Biden dropped out of the race a week later. The media could barely keep up.
This was an insane election.