War in the Middle East

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  • Jane R wrote: »
    We have so many Achilles heels we should stop calling them that. Oil, gas, fertiliser, food, computer chips...

    The F35 that went down in Iranian waters is a problem. Russian diving teams are searching for it and if they find it they're going to salvage it. This could spell disaster for the entire US air force if the Russians get their hands on its command codes.

    AFF
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Russia would love to obtain any sensitive F‑35 software, cryptographic keys, or mission‑data files—but the idea that there are “command codes” that would let them control or disable the jet is a myth. What does matter to Russia is anything that helps them understand or counter the aircraft’s stealth, sensors, or software architecture.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Russia would love to obtain any sensitive F‑35 software, cryptographic keys, or mission‑data files—but the idea that there are “command codes” that would let them control or disable the jet is a myth. What does matter to Russia is anything that helps them understand or counter the aircraft’s stealth, sensors, or software architecture.

    I didn't say anything about a kill switch.

    Everyone knows that these aircraft operate within an envelope of code based communications with counterbattery and surveillance ground operations that identify "friendlies" and which automate many tasks related to the interaction of anti aircraft defense with the aircraft itself.

    That's the code I believe Russia, China and Iran will be very interested in acquiring.

    AFF
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    In the Napoleonic wars the ships had signal books but they changed them regularly - presumably modern militaries do likewise.
  • A Feminine ForceA Feminine Force Shipmate
    edited April 4
    In the Napoleonic wars the ships had signal books but they changed them regularly - presumably modern militaries do likewise.

    Well they're gonna have to do that for all their integrated code calibrated equipment, and then test it all, if the Russians get their hands on it. I don't think this is as simple a process as you make it seem.

    AFF
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    It was also practice to at least attempt to burn (or dump overboard) sensitive material such as signal books should a ship be captured. A mechanism in an aircraft by which sensitive code is erased, which could be done by an incendiary device within the computer systems, when the ejector seat is used would have the same effect.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Russia would love to obtain any sensitive F‑35 software, cryptographic keys, or mission‑data files—but the idea that there are “command codes” that would let them control or disable the jet is a myth. What does matter to Russia is anything that helps them understand or counter the aircraft’s stealth, sensors, or software architecture.

    I didn't say anything about a kill switch.

    oEveryone knows that these aircraft operate within an envelope of code based communications with counterbattery and surveillance ground operations that identify "friendlies" and which automate many tasks related to the interaction of anti aircraft defense with the aircraft itself.

    That's the code I believe Russia, China and Iran will be very interested in acquiring.

    AFF

    No, you did not say it had a kill switch. It had long been rumored it did, though. I was reacting to that rumor.

  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I’m personally glad that the missing officer from the downed F15 has been rescued.

    The situation remains very bad but could have become even worse if he had been captured and publicly portrayed as some kind of trophy. The fact that substantial rewards were offered to Iranians for his capture showed what the intention was.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    Yes.

    I think the two sides are beginning to look very similar. Religious fanaticism, disregard for human life, going quickly to violence without thought of consequences.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Boogie

    I think you’re right. That’s what bothers me. Trump and Hegseth speak as though the avoidance of war crimes is a sign of weakness. They either don’t know or don’t care.

    And Iran has been fostering criminal terrorist acts for years, and continues to do so.

    “When they go low, we go lower” isn’t the mark of any civilised society. Not to say that I think the Trump administration represents a majority US view about the conduct of conflicts. The polls make it clear that this particular conflict is very unpopular.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    The fact that substantial rewards were offered to Iranians for his capture showed what the intention was.

    I'm not sure this follows.
  • Boogie wrote: »
    Yes.

    I think the two sides are beginning to look very similar. Religious fanaticism, disregard for human life, going quickly to violence without thought of consequences.

    Yes, but there is a startling difference, one side made an unprovoked attack on the other, and continues to do so. Any "both sides" argument is a moral catastrophe.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Can anubody tell me in what way the current Israeli regime is better or more ethical than the current Iranian regime ?
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    The fact that substantial rewards were offered to Iranians for his capture showed what the intention was.

    I'm not sure this follows.
    Not directly. However the experiences of those captured in Middle East conflicts does not encourage us to believe that the Geneva Convention re prisoners of war would be applied.

    Do you believe that Iran would honour the Geneva Convention? Do you believe that Iran would go high despite the US going low? I don’t.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    The fact that substantial rewards were offered to Iranians for his capture showed what the intention was.

    I'm not sure this follows.
    Not directly.

    Yes, quite. It doesn't follow.
    However the experiences of those captured in Middle East conflicts does not encourage us to believe that the Geneva Convention re prisoners of war would be applied.

    Oh .. it's a war now, is it ?
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    There's a question of whether the Geneva Convention actually holds in the circumstances. Would a US airman captured by Iran be considered a prisoner of war, when there has been no war declared? Would it be unreasonable for Iran to arrange a trial for a captured airman with charges of war crimes? If Iran is expected to uphold conventions I, II and III (dealing with treatment of military personnel injured, sick, captured or who surrendered), should we also expect the US and Israel to uphold Convention IV (protection of civilians)?
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited April 5
    The Geneva Conventions apply to armed conflict, I think. Whether or not war has been formally declared.

    Do you think Iran would apply them to prisoners of armed conflict?
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Do you think Iran would apply them to prisoners of armed conflict?

    I don't know, nor do I think a reward being offered indicates things one way or the other. I suspect they wouldn't stick by the spirit of the Geneva Convention, but I don't see this as a big gotcha when the other side has already declared 'no quarter'.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited April 5
    I note that the current regime is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of protesters amongst its own people. As well as fostering terrorist attacks by groups in neighbouring countries. For many years.

    The regime is not exactly noted for a humanitarian approach to those who disagree with it, or with whom it disagrees.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    The Geneva Conventions apply to armed conflict, I think. Whether or not war has been formally declared.

    Do you think Iran would apply them to prisoners of armed conflict?

    Hell no. The regime has never played by the rules or the western so called "rules based order".

    Proxy warfare, attacking other countries not involved and hijacking the strait of Hormuz to the detriment of the world economy makes it blatantly obvious.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I’m not arguing that the US is applying the Geneva Convention. I don’t believe it is, nor do I believe that Trump and Hegseth care.

    chrisstiles

    Sure, I’m speculating a bit. But to be honest, not a lot. And with some justification.
  • Lovely to see some leadership from the UK convening a meeting to sort out the Strait of Hormuz blackmail https://gov.uk/government/news/chairs-statement-on-the-meeting-on-the-strait-of-hormuz

    I'm sure a strongly worded note will help.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Sure, I’m speculating a bit.

    Okay, and initially you drew a direct connection between the two (do we do that every time a reward is being offered ?)

    Also, I wonder which bit of the 'rules based order' is being followed by firing Hellfire missiles at every male within a 3km radius.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    chrisstiles

    1. I’m not defending US military actions.

    2. Re rewards, it depends who is offering them, surely?

    I don’t trust the morality or intentions of the Iran regime. The history of their behaviour rules that out for me.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    The BBC just reported Trump’s account posting this on Truth Social:
    Trump says: "Tuesday will be Power Plant Day, and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one, in Iran. There will be nothing like it!!! Open the Fuckin’ Strait, you crazy bastards, or you’ll be living in Hell - JUST WATCH! Praise be to Allah. President DONALD J. TRUMP"
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Absolutely appalling.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    2. Re rewards, it depends who is offering them, surely?

    I just don't see the necessary link between reward -> nefarious action, it's not like you were initially stating it was purely your opinion.

    I'll leave it there.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    OK!

    For the sake of other readers, it’s not just my opinion

    From the link.
    If the missing American is found by Iranian forces, the implications could be profound. At the very least, it would be a political embarrassment for Washington.

    The US airman could be paraded as a propaganda tool, which would bring back grim reminders of the 1979 Iran hostage crisis, when American diplomats were held for 444 days.

    It seems very unlikely that a substantial reward was offered without there being a clear value to the regime.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    $45K was being offered in order to re-prise something that they did nearly 50 years ago? I guess the Americans really wanted to re-prise the torture memo in that case! https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-offers-reward-information-irans-supreme-leader-senior-officials-2026-03-13/
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    The BBC just reported Trump’s account posting this on Truth Social:
    Trump says: "Tuesday will be Power Plant Day, and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one, in Iran. There will be nothing like it!!! Open the Fuckin’ Strait, you crazy bastards, or you’ll be living in Hell - JUST WATCH! Praise be to Allah. President DONALD J. TRUMP"
    And you know things have gotten weird when Marjory Taylor Greene’s response seems like refreshing sanity. It begins:
    On Easter morning, this is what President Trump posted.
    Everyone in his administration that claims to be a Christian needs to fall on their knees and beg forgiveness from God and stop worshipping the President and intervene in Trump’s madness.
    I know all of you and him and he has gone insane, and all of you are complicit.
    Lord help us.


  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Please would you all read Styx.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I wonder if MTG might consider joining the Ship?

    That would be an interesting vetting challenge!
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    A ceasefire for a couple of weeks. Imperfectly started. But almost complete confusion over the two week negotiations.

    Nor is it clear the extent to which Israel was consulted.
  • > "Total and complete victory. 100 percent. No question about it,"

    Presidential, authoritative, reassuring, with a resounding ring of truth.

    I'd dig up the link but there's not much point really.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    A ceasefire for a couple of weeks. Imperfectly started. But almost complete confusion over the two week negotiations.

    Nor is it clear the extent to which Israel was consulted.

    I doubt that Trump consulted any part of Israeli government at all. It was an entirely personal threat.

  • I'm just glad I didn't wake up this morning to a world without Iran and the beginnings of a cascading global nuclear conflagration.

    Thank you Jesus and to all our Father's agents of grace on earth.

    AFF
  • I'm just glad I didn't wake up this morning to a world without Iran and the beginnings of a cascading global nuclear conflagration.

    Thank you Jesus and to all our Father's agents of grace on earth.

    AFF

    Amen.
  • The ceasefire is good news.

    Apparently China put the heavies on Tehran. Now THAT I find interesting.

    Surely they'd rather the US spent all its military might and energy so they had less to expend on themselves when they attack Taiwan.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Trump says China made Iran do it. Trump is not a reliable source.
  • I've not seen anything on UK news (so far) regarding intervention by China. Do you have a reliable link?

    Meanwhile, the Spanish Prime Minister is characteristically blunt:

    Ceasefires are always good news - especially if they lead to a just and lasting peace. But this momentary relief cannot make us forget the chaos, the destruction, and the lives lost.

    The Spanish government will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.

    What’s needed now are diplomacy, international legality, and PEACE.


    (From the Guardian)
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    The ceasefire is good news.

    Apparently China put the heavies on Tehran. Now THAT I find interesting.

    To do... what, exactly? What has Iran actually conceded? All that's happened is TACO.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    The Strait is closed again after Israel - launching operation 'Eternal Darkness' - dropped over a hundred bombs in Lebanon.
  • Why must the government of 'God's chosen people' act like a rabble of godless barbarians?
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited April 8
    Netanyahu has his own agenda, not necessarily in parallel with Trump's, but AIUI he has to keep on bashing up everyone in sight so as to avoid jail.

    The Iranians still have the power to close the Strait of Hormuz, so what will Trump do now?

    BTW, is there any actual evidence of the 'regime change' in Iran which Hegseth mentioned earlier today? I gather that Motjaba Khamenei hasn't been seen in person, but that may indeed be because he was badly wounded at the beginning of the war.

  • The ceasefire is good news.

    Apparently China put the heavies on Tehran. Now THAT I find interesting.

    Surely they'd rather the US spent all its military might and energy so they had less to expend on themselves when they attack Taiwan.

    Could be all sorts of reasons. China's been hit by the oil blockade so perhaps that's why they've asked Tehran to back off?

    Whatever the case there doesn't seem to be any joined-up thinking on the part of Israel and the US.

    Whatever else we might say the lack of clear war aims, an exit strategy and any apparent level of strategic thinking is palpable.

    Trump's now saying that the US will just 'hang around' to ensure everything's OK and already it's apparent that things aren't working out as he hoped.
  • This piece from today's UK Guardian looks back at Nixon and his attitude towards Vietnam, drawing parallels with Trump and Iran:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/08/trump-nixon-iran-madman-theory
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I think the USA and Israel have just a few hours to get their act together. Without that this very fragile ceasefire will collapse.

    Iran controls the Strait of Hormuz. It doesnt take too many missiles and drones to blow up tankers. Nor too many well concealed launch points in the hilly terrain to make good the threats. That’s the military threat and I don’t see how the USA can neutralise it militarily despite their firepower.

    All negotiations have to begin there. Anything else is just noise.
  • The Strait of Hormuz does appear to be the sticking point - Iran seems to still have the ability to keep it closed (or too dangerous to use), but this has surely been self-evident all along to everyone except Trump.

    Maybe I shouldn't say this, given how odious and repressive a regime Iranians have suffered for many years, but I can't help sort of admiring their tenacity and sheer grit in standing up to the US and Israel...at one and the same time.
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