No, just elderly and devout and determined. She was, of course, in hospital far longer than she need have been as she was suffering from exposure and cold as well as a fall.
No, just elderly and devout and determined. She was, of course, in hospital far longer than she need have been as she was suffering from exposure and cold as well as a fall.
If I had a dollar for every poor old creature brought into ER after a couple of days on the bathroom floor… not to mention those brought in dead…
When my parents were in their late seventies, a friend fell in the middle of the night and phoned them as they had a key to her house.
Mum and Dad tried to help her up but couldn't. They phoned the out of hours doctor, and were told to phone an ambulance.
They were outraged at the suggestion, claiming that if just anyone could phone for ambulance, the NHS would be on its knees.
So they phoned their friends cleaner, who was young and fit. And she got out of her bed in the middle of the night and came round, but couldn't lift the old lady either.
So they phoned for an out of hours doctor again and were again told to phone for an ambulance.
And they again decided against this.
So they phoned a third time, explained that by now the old lady had been on the floor for over two hours, and really, really needed help.
An irate doctor turned up, didn't examine the lady but just walked straight to the phone and called for an ambulance.
The old lady, Mum and Dad remained adamant that ambulances are expensive, and that they needed a doctor to make the phonecall.
It hadn't occurred to any of them that doctors are also expensive and that getting a doctor to make a phone call which they could have made themselves was also a waste of NHS resources.
And that sorry tale is being repeated up and down the land.
Lots of people seriously do not know what to do.
So end up doing what many of us who work or have worked in health see…. They stay on the bathroom floor and wait.
Then are admitted X hours later dehydrated, confused and that is just for starters.
When the much loved yet sadly departed AP was living at home in a semi supported situation, they did fall. It was in the early hours and given what happened rapidly afterwards, in all probability it was a stroke. So say the medics.
Do you suppose the alarm around the neck was activated?
Nope. And why not? Because they didn’t want to disturb other people.
They remained where they were and slowly crawled to their bed. It took hours. Only to be woken by a carer two hours later.
We had the alarm set up.
There was a phone in the bedroom. But no, they didn’t want to disturb others.
'I didn't want to make a fuss' 'What would people think if I...' 'I couldn't possibly ask...'
The amount of trouble, frustration and worry generated by self-abnegating old ladies would bring on your own white hairs. When I am an (even older) old woman I shall spare no one's comfort or convenience if I need help.
It's sheer unadulaterated pride. It's the same self-destructive instinct as is causing my niece's suicidal ideations. If I can't have everything exactly the way I want it right now, I don't want anything at all.
It's pure destructive id, and makes me utterly furious, as you can tell. Any resemblance between that and virtue is completely, diametrically misleading.
[Text hidden pending further consideration. May cause distress to people with mental health conditions. Alan Cresswell]
Thing is, my AP had a medical incident. Most people who find themselves suddenly on the floor have a medical reason or underlying condition that causes them to be there. A floor not being a normal place to choose to be.
And as I have found to my own cost on more than one occasion, one is Not at one’s most lucid when medical stuff is going on.
( and for clarity that generally refers to psychiatric conditions as well).
Add in that nursing homes can sometimes call out an ambulance to help lift a resident, especially if they are jammed in an inaccessible place…... and we in the uk have a perfect storm ahead of us.
It behoves us all to soberly consider our old age. How and where we will live. This is not a topic that my household finds easy to do though.
I guess we are not alone in that.
AP ‘s last ten years have forced us to think properly.
( And @ThunderBunk , I am so sorry it must be difficult)
'I didn't want to make a fuss' 'What would people think if I...' 'I couldn't possibly ask...'
It drove my mum wild when her mother refused to wear her emergency button for just that reason. She had a regular coterie of visiting tea drinkers (think someone living on their own who's prime tea pot holds enough for six mugs - I know because I inherited it!) and, when she somehow survived a massive heart attack, one of them found her very quickly.
Now said mum doesn't carry her mobile phone because it's a nuisance... I can just see where this will end up... in a heap somewhere down far end of the garden...
I have absolute freaking hissy fits at Mr Lamb for daring to go out for an hours' walk with no ID and no phone, and a history stroke. I cautiously hope he's got the message.
Actually with my parents the Ambulance centre was half a mile away. So once they had actually called the ambulance and the just helped them get up, they were happy to again.
This is going to rambling and inchoate as it crosses a bunch of things and I'm supposedly working, but here is a good a fit as any.
I realised yesterday when I started to well up at a little Christmas market how stressed I am already about Christmas day with Mum. Last year we dodged it as the Christmas lockdown made it ridiculous to get to hers for a day, but this year I feel compelled to go and save my sister from having her for the day, and to save Mum from Christmas day with only my live-in brother, the cuckoo in the nest, (if anyone) for company.
Mum has been prone to particularly bad depressions around Christmas for years, many sparked by my brother being a shite, yet insists on "doing Christmas" - she doesn't like going to my sisters, and won't come to ours (too far away, and there's "that dreadful junction" - which she can't describe other than the phrase I've just used, so we have no idea which one she means.
Last year she didn't get anyone anything for Christmas "because of lockdown". Her 70th birthday came during the same lockdown, and she's upset because "no-one got her anything"* for her birthday, no-one got her a card with "70" on, and no-one did anything for her Golden Wedding anniversary three days later. Aside from the fact that we were under the same lockdown that stopped her getting us anything, is it normal to celebrate a Golden Wedding when one half of the pair is dead? Especially as the first year after it happened I sent her a "Thinking of you" message - and never heard a word back.
*note at this point - if I'd got what she asked for when she asked, it would have had to be sent back, as she measured the bloody thing in centimetres and told me the size in inches!
So we've no idea what will happen there (my 50th is next week, which I guess will lay down a marker). She's also increasingly passing disparaging remarks about the ethnicity of people in adverts and on Strictly (my brother doesn't help here, he make Himmler look like a decent sort), and about the gay couple thereon. And then objects to other people saying things she finds hurtful. Having dissed a number of my friends.
Apart from the fact that I'd like my mum back, and not the miserable old woman she's become, I really don't what to do or how the fuck I'm going to handle it. Somehow through all this I still like Christmas, but this one already feels like punishment duty.
Can you stay locally, not in the house? And can you book a meal out on Christmas Day, rather than eating at your mother's house, to save her all that work? Both those should neutralise your brother some and be specially Christmassy.
She's had the turkey ordered for months, so I think that's out, and she's in the middle of nowhere. Though worth considering when I've longer to investigate - of course, The Plague is still hanging over us, so all plans might be moot again this year...
Maybe you and @Celtic Knotweed should agree to have your own Christmas celebration, of whatever kind suits you, when you are safely back home again. Celebrate the rest of the Christmas season with gusto, and have it to look forward to. It still won’t get you your Mum back though 😪.
I think Cathscats may be on to something - you have, after all, got slight Celtic tendencies, so why not make Hogmanay and/or New Year your big celebration?
Thankfully we will get a between-Xmas-and-Hogmanay with the Knotweed family, who are fairly handleable (as far as groups with two under-tens go, that is), and we have a duck and some salt beef on order that can go in the freezer if we are not locked down and have to go... and someone else to visit while we are over there (though we may well get wrong for that) which will help.
I definitely intend to be doing some sort of celebration for us at Hogmanay I'm working that day, but then off till the 5th, so no problem with a late night.
In previous years one of my aunts has thrown a good party, but with covid and the fact that her hearing has gone downhill to the point where she's on a NHS waiting list for implants, and is having problems in larger groups, I doubt that'll happen this year (she was having problems following conversations at her last party in 2019/20).
Sorry you're in for a grim Christmas @Sandemaniac. Hope it goes better than you think it will. Has your mum been to the GP recently. It sounds like at the very least she might be a bit depressed.
AP Mrs Z99 was taken to hospital at the weekend ... fever and fall. Turns out to be a kidney infection - and by yesterday kidney stones diagnosed. They can't remove the stones apparently but can somehpow surgically eradicate the infection. Or maybe my niece (daughter of my sister and oldest grandchild)
They operated on AP Mrs Z99 late in the evening - 5:00-11:00 last night ... when do theatre crews sleep? Apparently all is well and the operation successful.
... but a bitch fight is emerging between my siblings, as brother has informed the ward staff that he is next of kin (he is, but lives many hundred kms away)and is to be the reference point, with niece as second option. Sister (mother of niece) who lives down the road is furious.
I, who live still further away am burying my head in the sand and saying lalala loudly. It doesn't seem to achieve anything. AP Mrs Z99 is blowing her chances of a retirement village apartment though as her behaviour is becoming more and more dementia-apparfent - to everyone except brother (mine not hers) who denies there is a problem. Lalala.
However I think the hospital will insist on respite care which may provide a transition to some sort of assisted living. AP Mrs Z99 will be livid.
By the way, do any of you who live in British Empire™ Countries know how I arrange A Card From The Queen if AP Mrs Z99 makes her century?
Not that I am complaining about my remaining AP, but my sister has celebrations at her house on Christmas Day, Boxing Day (nephew's birthday) and New Year's Eve (niece's birthday). I enjoy seeing my AP despite my sister inviting between 30-30 people to each of these events. Covid may provide me with some excuses this year.
@zappa, I hope your mother is continuing to do well and your siblings sort out their differences. Certainly making sure all siblings are happy with what is proposed for their AP seems to take longer to negotiate than the actual sorting out of AP. I think going straight to a care home rather than seeing if assisted living would work would be best, but that is just my experience with my mother.
Update on my APs. Mum seems to be settling in well and my MiL very well into their respective care homes.
My aging parent told me last night that my b-i-l tested positive. Since my father takes most of his meals at my sister's house, my father is now in isolation.
@Zappa - good luck with persuading your mother into a care home. Do you know why your brother is in such denial? His own journey with dementia? or his need for your mother to be OK stopping him seeing anything else?
@Sarasa good news both your mother and mother-in-law are settling in.
she is pretty darned amazing (and was as I said above a tyrant when I was young) ... but I guess more then anything I'm just a kid disappointed that my big sibings don't seem to be playing nice any more
My 3 brothers and I had no difficulties like that with my parents because Dad made the decisions for Mum and himself, but earlier this year faced disagreements over the care of our eldest brother who has Parkinson's. Our youngest brother is an anti vaxer, so was against having G vaccinated, he was however willing to abide by a majority decision. I emailed the brother in Chicago, who unknown to me was already double vaxed, so that was resolved.
I know that we made the right decision but it was difficult. Youngest bro honestly believes we have shortened G's life. I spent a few weeks praying hard that G wouldn't have a rare side-effect or a co-incidental terminal illness, because youngest would probably have never forgiven us.
My sister's m-i-il is doing better. Our father, who has been spending much time at my sister's place, is awaiting an appointment for a covid test. Last night, on the phone, he let me know that over a year ago he was diagnosed with COPD. He has yet to tell my sister.
Comments
If I had a dollar for every poor old creature brought into ER after a couple of days on the bathroom floor… not to mention those brought in dead…
Mum and Dad tried to help her up but couldn't. They phoned the out of hours doctor, and were told to phone an ambulance.
They were outraged at the suggestion, claiming that if just anyone could phone for ambulance, the NHS would be on its knees.
So they phoned their friends cleaner, who was young and fit. And she got out of her bed in the middle of the night and came round, but couldn't lift the old lady either.
So they phoned for an out of hours doctor again and were again told to phone for an ambulance.
And they again decided against this.
So they phoned a third time, explained that by now the old lady had been on the floor for over two hours, and really, really needed help.
An irate doctor turned up, didn't examine the lady but just walked straight to the phone and called for an ambulance.
The old lady, Mum and Dad remained adamant that ambulances are expensive, and that they needed a doctor to make the phonecall.
It hadn't occurred to any of them that doctors are also expensive and that getting a doctor to make a phone call which they could have made themselves was also a waste of NHS resources.
Lots of people seriously do not know what to do.
So end up doing what many of us who work or have worked in health see…. They stay on the bathroom floor and wait.
Then are admitted X hours later dehydrated, confused and that is just for starters.
Do you suppose the alarm around the neck was activated?
Nope. And why not? Because they didn’t want to disturb other people.
They remained where they were and slowly crawled to their bed. It took hours. Only to be woken by a carer two hours later.
We had the alarm set up.
There was a phone in the bedroom. But no, they didn’t want to disturb others.
The amount of trouble, frustration and worry generated by self-abnegating old ladies would bring on your own white hairs. When I am an (even older) old woman I shall spare no one's comfort or convenience if I need help.
It's pure destructive id, and makes me utterly furious, as you can tell. Any resemblance between that and virtue is completely, diametrically misleading.
And as I have found to my own cost on more than one occasion, one is Not at one’s most lucid when medical stuff is going on.
( and for clarity that generally refers to psychiatric conditions as well).
Add in that nursing homes can sometimes call out an ambulance to help lift a resident, especially if they are jammed in an inaccessible place…... and we in the uk have a perfect storm ahead of us.
It behoves us all to soberly consider our old age. How and where we will live. This is not a topic that my household finds easy to do though.
I guess we are not alone in that.
AP ‘s last ten years have forced us to think properly.
( And @ThunderBunk , I am so sorry it must be difficult)
It drove my mum wild when her mother refused to wear her emergency button for just that reason. She had a regular coterie of visiting tea drinkers (think someone living on their own who's prime tea pot holds enough for six mugs - I know because I inherited it!) and, when she somehow survived a massive heart attack, one of them found her very quickly.
Now said mum doesn't carry her mobile phone because it's a nuisance... I can just see where this will end up... in a heap somewhere down far end of the garden...
May I remind everyone that suicidal ideation and its causes is a topic we're simply not equipped to discuss with any degree of accuracy.
We hear your pain, but this is something best addressed by appropriate professionals IRL.
Thank you.
Piglet, AS host
I realised yesterday when I started to well up at a little Christmas market how stressed I am already about Christmas day with Mum. Last year we dodged it as the Christmas lockdown made it ridiculous to get to hers for a day, but this year I feel compelled to go and save my sister from having her for the day, and to save Mum from Christmas day with only my live-in brother, the cuckoo in the nest, (if anyone) for company.
Mum has been prone to particularly bad depressions around Christmas for years, many sparked by my brother being a shite, yet insists on "doing Christmas" - she doesn't like going to my sisters, and won't come to ours (too far away, and there's "that dreadful junction" - which she can't describe other than the phrase I've just used, so we have no idea which one she means.
Last year she didn't get anyone anything for Christmas "because of lockdown". Her 70th birthday came during the same lockdown, and she's upset because "no-one got her anything"* for her birthday, no-one got her a card with "70" on, and no-one did anything for her Golden Wedding anniversary three days later. Aside from the fact that we were under the same lockdown that stopped her getting us anything, is it normal to celebrate a Golden Wedding when one half of the pair is dead? Especially as the first year after it happened I sent her a "Thinking of you" message - and never heard a word back.
*note at this point - if I'd got what she asked for when she asked, it would have had to be sent back, as she measured the bloody thing in centimetres and told me the size in inches!
So we've no idea what will happen there (my 50th is next week, which I guess will lay down a marker). She's also increasingly passing disparaging remarks about the ethnicity of people in adverts and on Strictly (my brother doesn't help here, he make Himmler look like a decent sort), and about the gay couple thereon. And then objects to other people saying things she finds hurtful. Having dissed a number of my friends.
Apart from the fact that I'd like my mum back, and not the miserable old woman she's become, I really don't what to do or how the fuck I'm going to handle it. Somehow through all this I still like Christmas, but this one already feels like punishment duty.
Maybe these, anyone reading your post Will be praying for you all on Christmas Day.
In previous years one of my aunts has thrown a good party, but with covid and the fact that her hearing has gone downhill to the point where she's on a NHS waiting list for implants, and is having problems in larger groups, I doubt that'll happen this year (she was having problems following conversations at her last party in 2019/20).
They operated on AP Mrs Z99 late in the evening - 5:00-11:00 last night ... when do theatre crews sleep? Apparently all is well and the operation successful.
... but a bitch fight is emerging between my siblings, as brother has informed the ward staff that he is next of kin (he is, but lives many hundred kms away)and is to be the reference point, with niece as second option. Sister (mother of niece) who lives down the road is furious.
I, who live still further away am burying my head in the sand and saying lalala loudly. It doesn't seem to achieve anything. AP Mrs Z99 is blowing her chances of a retirement village apartment though as her behaviour is becoming more and more dementia-apparfent - to everyone except brother (mine not hers) who denies there is a problem. Lalala.
However I think the hospital will insist on respite care which may provide a transition to some sort of assisted living. AP Mrs Z99 will be livid.
By the way, do any of you who live in British Empire™ Countries know how I arrange A Card From The Queen if AP Mrs Z99 makes her century?
https://www.govt.nz/browse/family-and-whanau/congratulatory-messages/
Update on my APs. Mum seems to be settling in well and my MiL very well into their respective care homes.
@Zappa - good luck with persuading your mother into a care home. Do you know why your brother is in such denial? His own journey with dementia? or his need for your mother to be OK stopping him seeing anything else?
@Sarasa good news both your mother and mother-in-law are settling in.
Oooh - thankyou!
* (although I also recognise the stress for the wider family).
I know that we made the right decision but it was difficult. Youngest bro honestly believes we have shortened G's life. I spent a few weeks praying hard that G wouldn't have a rare side-effect or a co-incidental terminal illness, because youngest would probably have never forgiven us.
Sibling angst was more prominent as my AP aged, heartfelt prayers for all dealing with it