But, all the anti-racist charities and organisations will be on the new list of extremist organisations who are thus ineligible for financial support.
O yes. Silly me.
I suspect I may soon be an Official Enemy Of The State™ (if I'm not one already) by virtue of subscribing to a certain anti-monarchist group, and to a certain left-wing political party which supports the idea of a republic.
Given that worship of the Monarchy (given to us by God) is one of the cardinal British Values™ the evil racist tories are so eager to defend, I may soon be languishing in durance vile...
The Speakers only excuse would be if there were so many MPs who had tabled questions in advance that he didn't call anyone who stood up without being on the order paper. If that's what he did then he needs to say that, and say it clearly. But, if there was even one MP called to speak who hadn't tabled a question in advance then he doesn't have a leg to stand on.
It is VERY uncommon that an MP is called who hasn't tabled a question in advance and got on the order paper. There are always a lot of questions. However, the Speaker has complete discretion here and is not bound by rule or convention. One would expect the exception to be made in this kind of situation. I certainly would.
But, all the anti-racist charities and organisations will be on the new list of extremist organisations who are thus ineligible for financial support.
O yes. Silly me.
I suspect I may soon be an Official Enemy Of The State™ (if I'm not one already) by virtue of subscribing to a certain anti-monarchist group, and to a certain left-wing political party which supports the idea of a republic.
Given that worship of the Monarchy (given to us by God) is one of the cardinal British Values™ the evil racist tories are so eager to defend, I may soon be languishing in durance vile...
I am a supporter of the monarchy but I don't worship them. Where did you get the idea from that you are required to worship them ?
More to the point, where does he get the idea that he's so important and such a threat to the status quo that anyone would bother to lock him up?
Which doesn't mean that Gove's announcement isn't going to prove problematic.
Meanwhile, have any of the politicos among you heard the rumours that the PM may announce a snap May election this coming Wednesday (20th March)?
I'd be surprised if he does but stranger things have happened.
I don't see any great exodus of Conservative MPs to Reform any time soon but the PM's facing a lot of backbench grief.
Some think he may press the nuclear button and call a snap election rather than be ousted - condemning his own Party to annihilation at the polls rather than lose face.
I'm not sure about that, but political astuteness has hardly been a hallmark of the current crop of Conservative cabinet members.
On an earlier topic, about Lee Anderson and thinking aloud here about switches of political allegiance. I know a few people who have changed tack in one direction or another, and I respect that.
But almost invariably - no names no pack drill - whenever I've seen someone chop and change from one political persuasion to another particularly when it's from far left to far right - it's a case of Loose Cannon writ large.
I've seen several apparently surprising U-turns or strange changes of allegiance and it never, ever involves sane or balanced thinking or purity of motive. I'm not talking about someone moving from Lib Dem to Labour, say, or from Labour to the Greens. But from young lefty to Reform ... ?!
Again, no names no pack drill but I can't say I've ever come across a UKIP or more recently, a Reform candidate or activist who hasn't either been thrown out of their previous affiliation or fallen out with people really badly.
Those groups attract the misfits the mavericks and those with a highly inflated notion of their own abilities.
I'm being polite despite this being Hell but everyone a coconut.
If Johnson was still PM then an announcement like that would make a May election even more likely. Is Sunak that much more honest than his predecessor?
If Johnson was still PM then an announcement like that would make a May election even more likely. Is Sunak that much more honest than his predecessor?
A general election can be called no less than 25 days in advance. That means that if the government waits until the results of 2nd May the earliest that could be would be 30th May.
As I mentioned earlier, no one who follows politics seriously has rules out an early election. The exact date is not pinned down but it has a few advantages. Warmer weather and probable lighter days will get people out to vote. Particularly the older voter who the Cons rely on.
It is just after the budget and the reaction to that is a good indicator of election timing. An early election means there is less time for things to get worse for the Tories. You can argue that it allows more time for things to improve but most commentators are not convinced things will pick up for them.
One commentator has also noted that because the Conservative rely on an older demographic for votes, waiting will kill off more of those and make the results even worse.
However my view is that the Tories won't call the election for as long as they possibly can, not to achieve anything but purely to stay in power. With the additional advantages that a) they can loot the state for a bit longer and b) who knows, maybe something will happen to their advantage (the horse may learn to sing hymns).
They'll want to stay on at least until the first flight has left for Rwanda, so that they can say their Stop The Boats™ policy was a complete success...
I think there must now be over 60 tory MPs elected in 2019 who will not be standing for re-election next time round.
An independent who would have to stand down is our dear friend George Galloway, who may be challenging Andy Burnham in the post of mayor of Greater Manchester. We shall see...
Yes, but unless the general election is to be held in May that's not an issue. If Galloway wins the mayoral election then he stands down in Rochdale. If he doesn't then he stands again in Rochdale. Of course, the problem arises if he's campaigning for two different positions for an election held the same day, or close enough that the decision to stand in one can't be made after the results of the first are known.
Feeling dizzy from the recent promulgations on extremism by Tory ministers, the recent one being Gove. Meanwhile Tory donor Hester says Diane Abbott should be shot. Make it make sense!
Yes, but unless the general election is to be held in May that's not an issue. If Galloway wins the mayoral election then he stands down in Rochdale. If he doesn't then he stands again in Rochdale. Of course, the problem arises if he's campaigning for two different positions for an election held the same day, or close enough that the decision to stand in one can't be made after the results of the first are known.
Thank you @Alan Cresswell - I expressed myself rather badly, to say the least.
ISTM that the UK could really do without the irritating sideshows put on by mountebanks such as Galloway, but fair's fair, I suppose.
Feeling dizzy from the recent promulgations on extremism by Tory ministers, the recent one being Gove. Meanwhile Tory donor Hester says Diane Abbott should be shot. Make it make sense!
The real extremists, of course, are the tories themselves - a point which has been made by many reporters and commentators, amongst others.
"Downing Street sources tell The Independent that the next General Election will be held on Thursday 10th October 2024. Parliament therefore must be dissolved by September 5th 2024."
"Downing Street sources tell The Independent that the next General Election will be held on Thursday 10th October 2024. Parliament therefore must be dissolved by September 5th 2024."
If that's true, then it's a little earlier than some have predicted, though the sooner the Gobshites are sent to Outer Darkness, the better.
(Not that I disbelieve the Independent, but stuff coming from NumberTen is not always reliable...).
I had heard a while ago that it would be October and it rang true at the time. Anyway, let's see. I reckon Rishi will hold out as long as possible - I don't know why, it must be like clinging to a fragmenting piece of ship in the middle of the Atlantic and hoping you can salvage something or someone will come to your rescue before you go under.
If he leaves it any later than mid-October (which is often not too bad weather-wise) his older supporters won't want to venture out.
BTW, my YouTube feed is already featuring party political broadcasts by Labour candidates for two of the three seats in Our Town...both candidates are female, so presumably disapproved of by evil racist misogynist scumbag Fester.
Yes, there are constraints like that. June, July, August are summer hols. November, December are cold. Of course, he could wait till January! Latest poll, 44/20.
The polls (and yes, they aren't 100% reliable) don't seem to show much variation.
I still think Wishi-Washi wants to see the first convicts refugees transported to Africa, so that he can boast at how successful his evil and inhumane government has been. This depends, of course, on whether any flights do ever get under way (have they found an airline willing to be associated with this cruelty, or is the RAF to be used?).
Apparently Rishi has a deal for those who have been through immigration and failed. He will give them money (a decent amount by all reports) to… wait for it… go to Rwanda of their own accord. He will have a plane full of immigrants going to Rwanda. He can spin that nicely.
It's up to £3k. That's a lot of money if you don't have any. It would get you set up in Rwanda and you'd manage comfortably for the first three months. However, the job market isn't brilliant, and there isn't any unemployment benefit. How you'd get on would really depend on what skills you had. Remote working could be a possibility for some, but others would be competing with the locals for basic jobs like construction, driving, etc.
Hmm. I wonder how many people will avail themselves of this World-Beating™ opportunity to better themselves in such a safe and welcoming country?
The Rwanda Plan is already costing an eye-watering amount of taxpayers' £££, so I suppose a few extra thousands here and there will be worth squandering.
There won't be much spent on giving out this £3000, for a start it's part of an existing scheme to give failed asylum seekers support to travel to another country which has now been extended so that going to Rwanda is also covered. But, the main point is that it's for a hypothetical group of people who shouldn't exist. The money is available for people who are unable to return to their own country because it isn't safe and have had their asylum claim turned down. If you imagine a Venn diagram with one circle of people who have left their home out of genuine fear for their safety (eg: it's a war zone, they're part of a persecuted minority, they hold political views which would have them arrested etc) and the other circle of people who don't have a genuine basis for claiming asylum then those two circles should never overlap. They could be offering a lot more, the total cost of giving a million quid to a set of zero people is still zero.
Far be it from me to defend the government but is there not also a set of people whose asylum claims were rejected and for whom it is deemed safe for them to return but with whose country of origin we don't have arrangements to effect return?
Though, given that Mordaunt is one of the few senior Tories to say she doesn't want to campaign on culture war issues - and therefore gets called "woke" - it won't be a bad move for democracy and British culture if that were to happen and our trans-friends don't find that they're the target of political campaigning.
Well, that's for sure - there won't be time for a motion of no confidence and then a leadership contest to be concluded by the end of the summer. New leader at the end of August(ish) isn't going to leave time to do anything about government policy - so, no acts as PM but a chance to influence the election campaign. A May election would make the question moot, because there wouldn't then even be time for a leadership campaign.
It all seems like the last thrashings of the party's tail, as the tories finally expire...
They will not finally expire. The fightback will start after the General election. I don't understand why anyone in the party would want to become the Party Leader this side of the election
It all seems like the last thrashings of the party's tail, as the tories finally expire...
They will not finally expire. The fightback will start after the General election. I don't understand why anyone in the party would want to become the Party Leader this side of the election
Quite a pension boost if you're not already a millionaire and are likely to lose your seat. And if you tilt at enough far right windmills you can bag a lucrative tour of the US.
It all seems like the last thrashings of the party's tail, as the tories finally expire...
They will not finally expire. The fightback will start after the General election. I don't understand why anyone in the party would want to become the Party Leader this side of the election
Being in place as leader of the Conservative Party puts them in a position to start that fightback as soon as the votes are counted, rather than having to wait for the process of an internal election.
Possibly more important in someone's consideration is that the leadership campaign gives them a platform for public recognition just before an election, which would give their constituency campaign a boost. The hope that enough people in their constituency would say "oh, this is our MP trying to reform the Conservative Party, they need to be given the chance" and hence vote for them so that they keep their seat.
I'm not sure how many potential Conservative leaders are in seats that are absolutely safe, one risk of a pre-election contest to elect a new party leader is that they then don't keep their seat and there's an immediate need to do it all again. Sunak is in what's considered the safest seat in the country (he was elected on just short of 64% of votes in 2017 and 2019), previously the seat for William Hague and Leon Brittan before that, so he'll almost certainly be an MP after the election and can stay in post during a leadership campaign. Penny Mordaunt took Portsmouth North from Labour in 2010 with a vote share that's been increasing with each election since then (61% in 2019), so is probably safe. Some other senior Conservatives who might be in the race are in interesting positions. South West Surrey has been solid blue, Virginia Bottomley had been MP there for a very long time (1984-2005) with big majorities, but in 2019 Jeremy Hunt held it with a majority of less than 9000.
It all seems like the last thrashings of the party's tail, as the tories finally expire...
They will not finally expire. The fightback will start after the General election. I don't understand why anyone in the party would want to become the Party Leader this side of the election
Quite a pension boost if you're not already a millionaire and are likely to lose your seat. And if you tilt at enough far right windmills you can bag a lucrative tour of the US.
It all seems like the last thrashings of the party's tail, as the tories finally expire...
They will not finally expire. The fightback will start after the General election. I don't understand why anyone in the party would want to become the Party Leader this side of the election
Being in place as leader of the Conservative Party puts them in a position to start that fightback as soon as the votes are counted, rather than having to wait for the process of an internal election.
Possibly more important in someone's consideration is that the leadership campaign gives them a platform for public recognition just before an election, which would give their constituency campaign a boost. The hope that enough people in their constituency would say "oh, this is our MP trying to reform the Conservative Party, they need to be given the chance" and hence vote for them so that they keep their seat.
I'm not sure how many potential Conservative leaders are in seats that are absolutely safe, one risk of a pre-election contest to elect a new party leader is that they then don't keep their seat and there's an immediate need to do it all again. Sunak is in what's considered the safest seat in the country (he was elected on just short of 64% of votes in 2017 and 2019), previously the seat for William Hague and Leon Brittan before that, so he'll almost certainly be an MP after the election and can stay in post during a leadership campaign. Penny Mordaunt took Portsmouth North from Labour in 2010 with a vote share that's been increasing with each election since then (61% in 2019), so is probably safe. Some other senior Conservatives who might be in the race are in interesting positions. South West Surrey has been solid blue, Virginia Bottomley had been MP there for a very long time (1984-2005) with big majorities, but in 2019 Jeremy Hunt held it with a majority of less than 9000.
All good points. I didn't think it through enough. My reasoning was that the defeated leader is usually required to resign
I daresay any other outcome was unlikely, given their determination to re-introduce transportation to penal settlements overseas. The tories will be remembered chiefly for this evil, cruel policy...not the sort of thing most people would want to be their legacy, but hey.
Comments
O yes. Silly me.
I suspect I may soon be an Official Enemy Of The State™ (if I'm not one already) by virtue of subscribing to a certain anti-monarchist group, and to a certain left-wing political party which supports the idea of a republic.
Given that worship of the Monarchy (given to us by God) is one of the cardinal British Values™ the evil racist tories are so eager to defend, I may soon be languishing in durance vile...
It is VERY uncommon that an MP is called who hasn't tabled a question in advance and got on the order paper. There are always a lot of questions. However, the Speaker has complete discretion here and is not bound by rule or convention. One would expect the exception to be made in this kind of situation. I certainly would.
AFZ
I am a supporter of the monarchy but I don't worship them. Where did you get the idea from that you are required to worship them ?
Which doesn't mean that Gove's announcement isn't going to prove problematic.
Meanwhile, have any of the politicos among you heard the rumours that the PM may announce a snap May election this coming Wednesday (20th March)?
I'd be surprised if he does but stranger things have happened.
I don't see any great exodus of Conservative MPs to Reform any time soon but the PM's facing a lot of backbench grief.
Some think he may press the nuclear button and call a snap election rather than be ousted - condemning his own Party to annihilation at the polls rather than lose face.
I'm not sure about that, but political astuteness has hardly been a hallmark of the current crop of Conservative cabinet members.
On an earlier topic, about Lee Anderson and thinking aloud here about switches of political allegiance. I know a few people who have changed tack in one direction or another, and I respect that.
But almost invariably - no names no pack drill - whenever I've seen someone chop and change from one political persuasion to another particularly when it's from far left to far right - it's a case of Loose Cannon writ large.
I've seen several apparently surprising U-turns or strange changes of allegiance and it never, ever involves sane or balanced thinking or purity of motive. I'm not talking about someone moving from Lib Dem to Labour, say, or from Labour to the Greens. But from young lefty to Reform ... ?!
Again, no names no pack drill but I can't say I've ever come across a UKIP or more recently, a Reform candidate or activist who hasn't either been thrown out of their previous affiliation or fallen out with people really badly.
Those groups attract the misfits the mavericks and those with a highly inflated notion of their own abilities.
I'm being polite despite this being Hell but everyone a coconut.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/14/rishi-sunak-rules-out-general-election-may-local-elections
FWIW.
Next Wednesday is still a few days away...
My thought exactly.
'Read my lips ...'
The results on 2 May may be the deciding factor
It is just after the budget and the reaction to that is a good indicator of election timing. An early election means there is less time for things to get worse for the Tories. You can argue that it allows more time for things to improve but most commentators are not convinced things will pick up for them.
However my view is that the Tories won't call the election for as long as they possibly can, not to achieve anything but purely to stay in power. With the additional advantages that a) they can loot the state for a bit longer and b) who knows, maybe something will happen to their advantage (the horse may learn to sing hymns).
https://tinyurl.com/4umjavmp
(James Heappey, armed forces minister, stands down for the next election)
An independent who would have to stand down is our dear friend George Galloway, who may be challenging Andy Burnham in the post of mayor of Greater Manchester. We shall see...
I think BF maybe confusing Galloway with the sort of decent individual who wouldn't try to hold or draw salary for two full time jobs at once.
Thank you @Alan Cresswell - I expressed myself rather badly, to say the least.
ISTM that the UK could really do without the irritating sideshows put on by mountebanks such as Galloway, but fair's fair, I suppose.
The real extremists, of course, are the tories themselves - a point which has been made by many reporters and commentators, amongst others.
If that's true, then it's a little earlier than some have predicted, though the sooner the Gobshites are sent to Outer Darkness, the better.
(Not that I disbelieve the Independent, but stuff coming from NumberTen is not always reliable...).
BTW, my YouTube feed is already featuring party political broadcasts by Labour candidates for two of the three seats in Our Town...both candidates are female, so presumably disapproved of by evil racist misogynist scumbag Fester.
I still think Wishi-Washi wants to see the first convicts refugees transported to Africa, so that he can boast at how successful his evil and inhumane government has been. This depends, of course, on whether any flights do ever get under way (have they found an airline willing to be associated with this cruelty, or is the RAF to be used?).
The Rwanda Plan is already costing an eye-watering amount of taxpayers' £££, so I suppose a few extra thousands here and there will be worth squandering.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/16/conservatives-slam-bonkers-plot-to-topple-rishi-sunak-before-election
It all seems like the last thrashings of the party's tail, as the tories finally expire...
They will not finally expire. The fightback will start after the General election. I don't understand why anyone in the party would want to become the Party Leader this side of the election
Quite a pension boost if you're not already a millionaire and are likely to lose your seat. And if you tilt at enough far right windmills you can bag a lucrative tour of the US.
Possibly more important in someone's consideration is that the leadership campaign gives them a platform for public recognition just before an election, which would give their constituency campaign a boost. The hope that enough people in their constituency would say "oh, this is our MP trying to reform the Conservative Party, they need to be given the chance" and hence vote for them so that they keep their seat.
I'm not sure how many potential Conservative leaders are in seats that are absolutely safe, one risk of a pre-election contest to elect a new party leader is that they then don't keep their seat and there's an immediate need to do it all again. Sunak is in what's considered the safest seat in the country (he was elected on just short of 64% of votes in 2017 and 2019), previously the seat for William Hague and Leon Brittan before that, so he'll almost certainly be an MP after the election and can stay in post during a leadership campaign. Penny Mordaunt took Portsmouth North from Labour in 2010 with a vote share that's been increasing with each election since then (61% in 2019), so is probably safe. Some other senior Conservatives who might be in the race are in interesting positions. South West Surrey has been solid blue, Virginia Bottomley had been MP there for a very long time (1984-2005) with big majorities, but in 2019 Jeremy Hunt held it with a majority of less than 9000.
I doubt if they're smart - just shit-scared...
All good points. I didn't think it through enough. My reasoning was that the defeated leader is usually required to resign
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/18/mps-vote-to-throw-out-amendments-to-rwanda-deportation-bill
I daresay any other outcome was unlikely, given their determination to re-introduce transportation to penal settlements overseas. The tories will be remembered chiefly for this evil, cruel policy...not the sort of thing most people would want to be their legacy, but hey.