General Collapse of Secondary Education

I was appalled the other night when one of my carers told me that she couldn’t tell the time using a clock face. (She was used to a digital clock ).
Today, I got asked if I had been a teacher as I asked for a drink in my squat beaker, and had to explain what I meant - the only time that carer had come across “squat “ was in keep fit.
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  • Priscilla wrote: »
    I was appalled the other night when one of my carers told me that she couldn’t tell the time using a clock face. (She was used to a digital clock ).
    Today, I got asked if I had been a teacher as I asked for a drink in my squat beaker, and had to explain what I meant - the only time that carer had come across “squat “ was in keep fit.

    So you're complaining about a general collapse in educational standards based on the fact that one of your carers can't read a kind of clock that isn't really in common use any more, and isn't familiar with a particular uncommonly-used word? I know what you mean, but I wouldn't naturally use the word "squat" to describe anything I was about to drink out of.

    Around here, kids are taught to read an analogue clock in elementary school, but lots of older kids don't confidently read one, because it's a skill they never use, because they almost never see an analogue clock.

    I could also hand them a slide rule or a book of log tables, and then act all shocked that they don't know what to do with those things, and that would be equally unreasonable.

    Vocabulary in common use changes over time. There are plenty of words that were in common use 50 years ago that are much less common now, and plenty of words that are common now that weren't common 50 years ago.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited September 2024
    How do people not commonly see analogue clocks, they’re all over the place ?
  • Yes, I would pause at "squat beaker", incomprehensible.
  • How do people not commonly see analogue clocks, they’re all over the place ?

    Eh, not so much anymore, IME, here in Canada right now.
  • ^ I do have one myself, in my bedroom, but that's only because I think it's easier to figure out how to set an analog than a digital clock. Otherwise, I'd probably buy a digital, 'cuz it's usually easier to read in the dark.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    We tend to have them on town halls, churches, waiting rooms, etc etc
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I read some columnist on how tapping your wrist to signal to some straying offspring it was time to come in was now a derisible gesture. You tell the time from your phone of course!

    I would be flummoxed by being asked for a beaker. My mind would go to chemistry labs and Prehistoric cultures with a swerve to Keat's blushful Hippocrene, before asking did you mean a mug or a tumbler?
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited September 2024
    "Beaker" I know. "Squat" I know. But not together.

    I never really got the hang of using a slide rule when I did my engineering degree. But I was superb at log tables! (We didn't have calculators, at least not useful ones).

    On a broader thought, I'm sure there are things known by secondary (or even primary) school children, of which we members of "the older generation" are totally ignorant!
  • As a Canadian, I have never heard of a "squat beaker".
  • "Beaker" I know. "Squat" I know. But not together.
    I know them both, but not in a way that I can make heads or tails of what a “squat beaker” might be. Perhaps I’m on the wrong side of the Atlantic to figure it out.

    Meanwhile, I can completely understand why some might find reading an analog clock difficult or foreign, not to mention relatively unnecessary. And is that something that would taught in secondary school anyway? If it’s going to be taught, wouldn’t it be taught to very young children? I think I was taught how to read a clock in kindergarten.

    Firenze wrote: »
    I read some columnist on how tapping your wrist to signal to some straying offspring it was time to come in was now a derisible gesture. You tell the time from your phone of course!
    Thank you bringing to mind this “Seinfeld” scene.


  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    I totally understand what a squat beaker is, I'm sure I've used the word squat to mean something small dumpy quite often. As for clocks we have two analogue clocks in the house, and since I've killed my fitbit I've gone back to wearing my very nice analogue wristwatch. I still keep on tapping it though, but that has nothing to do with reminding other people about the time!

  • Both my wife and I have analogue watches. We also have (let me count) five analogue clocks around the house. The only digital one is on the oven.
  • Beaker from The Muppet Show is rather tall and thin!

    meep meep meep meep meep
  • So, a squat beaker is . . . ?

  • How do people not commonly see analogue clocks, they’re all over the place ?

    Many people's houses don't have them. Old people ;) have analogue clocks on walls and mantelpieces. Young people don't. Clocks are on phones, and computers, and Google/Amazon/Apple devices, and are digital. Watches, if worn, are digital.

    They might be "all over the place" out in public, but not in a way that people actually look at. I can pretty much guarantee that no young adult has ever looked at the church clock or the town hall clock to see what the time was - they just look at their phones. Clocks in public are just background scenery.
  • ChastMastr wrote: »
    Beaker from The Muppet Show is rather tall and thin!

    meep meep meep meep meep

    Ah, so he's Berzelius Beaker?
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    So, a squat beaker is . . . ?

    A short drinking vessel, like a tumbler or a possibly a short plastic drinking cup with a lid.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    So, a squat beaker is . . . ?

    A short drinking vessel, like a tumbler or a possibly a short plastic drinking cup with a lid.
    Ah, thanks.

    In my other-side-of-The-Pond experience, “squat” can mean short, but would only be used with that sense to refer to a person, and even that usage isn’t common. As for “beaker,” here that’s something used in laboratories, not something one would drink from.


  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Dual meaning over here.
  • HeavenlyannieHeavenlyannie Shipmate
    edited September 2024
    I admit I have never heard the description ‘squat beaker’ but would be able to work out what it was from the 2 words. I thinks my sons (age 23 and 20) would too.
    I am not quite old and have an analogue clock in the kitchen. My sons can read it; I will ask them when I see them next if they ever look at analogue clocks.
    (Perhaps the younger generation will get into analogue clocks, like they have vinyl records)
  • I can pretty much guarantee that no young adult has ever looked at the church clock or the town hall clock to see what the time was - they just look at their phones.l

    Eh. I'm sure some do, if their phone is buried deep in their bag and it's easier to just glance over at the town hall.

    I say this, because when I want to know the time, but my phone is in my bag, and I notice somebody near me has a wristwatch, I'll sometimes ask that person.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    So you're complaining about a general collapse in educational standards based on the fact that one of your carers can't read a kind of clock that isn't really in common use any more, and isn't familiar with a particular uncommonly-used word?

    @Leorning Cniht nailed the real problem with the OP, which is not details about clocks or vessels for liquids. A couple of anecdotes do not support the general claim that secondary education has collapsed. There's also more than a whiff of "these kids these days" disdain about it.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    edited September 2024
    Priscilla wrote: »
    I was appalled the other night when one of my carers told me that she couldn’t tell the time using a clock face. (She was used to a digital clock ).
    Today, I got asked if I had been a teacher as I asked for a drink in my squat beaker, and had to explain what I meant - the only time that carer had come across “squat “ was in keep fit.

    How good are you at coding to produce computer programmes?

    All eleven year olds in the UK learn to do it. Coding became part of the national curriculum in England in 2014.

    We all have different skills. Don't knock young people for having different skills/knowledge from you.
  • Ruth wrote: »
    So you're complaining about a general collapse in educational standards based on the fact that one of your carers can't read a kind of clock that isn't really in common use any more, and isn't familiar with a particular uncommonly-used word?

    @Leorning Cniht nailed the real problem with the OP, which is not details about clocks or vessels for liquids. A couple of anecdotes do not support the general claim that secondary education has collapsed. There's also more than a whiff of "these kids these days" disdain about it.

    And I think if this thread is REALLY supposed to be about the alleged collapse of secondary education(rather than just using the phrase as hyperbole in a request for anecdotes about changes in general knowledge), it would be better suited for Purgatory.
  • stetson wrote: »
    I can pretty much guarantee that no young adult has ever looked at the church clock or the town hall clock to see what the time was - they just look at their phones.l

    Eh. I'm sure some do, if their phone is buried deep in their bag and it's easier to just glance over at the town hall.

    I say this, because when I want to know the time, but my phone is in my bag, and I notice somebody near me has a wristwatch, I'll sometimes ask that person.
    I don’t know. When I think of my kids, both in their 20s, and their friends, their phones are rarely where they can’t be quickly accessed. In a pocket? Sure. In a small purse, for the females? Sometimes, if they don’t have pockets. Buried deep in a backpack or bag. Never.


  • I think the thread was intended for lighthearted discussion, hence Heaven.
  • I've just added "squat beaker" to my lexicon. Thank you!
  • I think the thread was intended for lighthearted discussion, hence Heaven.
    Ah.

    Am I the only shipmate who almost never notices what forum a thread is in?

  • Nope.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    I think the thread was intended for lighthearted discussion, hence Heaven.

    Dumping on all of secondary education doesn't feel lighthearted to me.
  • Maybe the OP was missing some emojis. When I first read it, I thought we were in Hell.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    I can pretty much guarantee that no young adult has ever looked at the church clock or the town hall clock to see what the time was - they just look at their phones.l

    Eh. I'm sure some do, if their phone is buried deep in their bag and it's easier to just glance over at the town hall.

    I say this, because when I want to know the time, but my phone is in my bag, and I notice somebody near me has a wristwatch, I'll sometimes ask that person.
    I don’t know. When I think of my kids, both in their 20s, and their friends, their phones are rarely where they can’t be quickly accessed. In a pocket? Sure. In a small purse, for the females? Sometimes, if they don’t have pockets. Buried deep in a backpack or bag. Never.


    Well, maybe I'm just an eccentric old man in that case. Personally, I find phones in pockets bulky and uncomfortable.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    I think if I'd just been through what Priscilla's just been through I'd be a bit irrascible.
  • I meant a beaker which is squat. “Squat “ could relate to anything short and dumpy.
  • Priscilla wrote: »
    I meant a beaker which is squat. “Squat “ could relate to anything short and dumpy.
    Not as used where I live. But, of course, I do assume your caregiver doesn’t live and has never lived where I live.

    I think if I'd just been through what Priscilla's just been through I'd be a bit irrascible.
    Indeed.


  • Things could be worse.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    edited September 2024
    I think if I'd just been through what Priscilla's just been through I'd be a bit irrascible.

    I don't want to go through all that to justify my level of irascibility!

    Edit: had to read the prayer thread in All Saints to figure out what you were talking about.
  • Perhaps there is a need to talk about more than just the two examples above. Are you satisfied with the current secondary education in history or geography Is anyone ever satisfied with Sunday School instruction?
  • stetson wrote: »
    Well, maybe I'm just an eccentric old man in that case. Personally, I find phones in pockets bulky and uncomfortable.

    So do I, and I'm grumpy about phones getting bigger over time. My current phone is the great-great-grandchild model of my previous phone, and is significantly bigger.

    But the thing about my pocket is that I always have it with me, which is why my wallet, my phone, and my keys always live in them. If I put my phone anywhere else, I'd be continually not having my phone with me, and at that point it may as well be a landline.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Except I always knew where the landline was when I had one.
  • When my mother died, my family stayed in her house. She had a landline. Son challenged my grandchildren to use it. Initially, they could not figure it out. But they got it.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    When my mother died, my family stayed in her house. She had a landline. Son challenged my grandchildren to use it. Initially, they could not figure it out. But they got it.

    Was it rotary or push-button?
  • Or one of those where you had to shout: "Operator!"
  • Gill HGill H Shipmate
    edited September 2024
    All my dad’s social workers, care organisers etc have asked him to tell them about his life, where he worked etc (for official forms). I have got used to the blank looks as soon as the words ‘ordination’, ‘curate’, ‘parish’ etc appear.

    Not blaming them, it’s just a sad indication of how irrelevant the church has become to most people.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    edited September 2024
    "The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them".

    (From a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274)

    My son talks disparagingly of "Boomers" until he remembers that his Mum (who he loves) is one! I just smile. His turn will come to be old and creaky. 🙂
    Ruth wrote: »
    Except I always knew where the landline was when I had one.

    I always know where my keys are. They have two places where they're allowed, one in my handbag and one on the hook in the kitchen.

    I need to do the same with my phone. I missed an important call yesterday because my phone had been left upstairs. We don't have a landline.
  • We still have a landline. Although since I was the last holdout in the house to get a cellphone, the landlines days may be numbered.
  • TrudyTrudy Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    We have held onto our landline out of some believe that it might be useful in a crisis when the cell lines go down, though I don't know how much truth there is to that. Nobody who's not a telemarketer ever calls on it; we've even trained our most elderly relatives to call our cellphones.

    Both my young adult children are living in houses where putting in a landline was not even considered upon move-in -- it's far more archaic than a clock on the wall. My daughter does have one of those in her new house, but it's far more a piece of decor than a useful thing; I don't know if anyone in the house ever looks at it to see what time it is.
  • I like to give analogue clocks as gifts. They continue to be ubiquitous.
  • Since this thread started I've clocked several of my teenage students wearing proper analogue wristwatches. I presume they can read them...
  • Twangist wrote: »
    Since this thread started I've clocked several of my teenage students wearing proper analogue wristwatches. I presume they can read them...

    I see what you did there.
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