Two part questionnaire for atheists

For atheists that think all existence has always been here and always will be: Let me just ask you, if a storm didn’t begin today, wouldn’t there be no storm at all?

For atheist that think all existence is cyclical: What will be the magic that takes place to kickstart a dynamic existence after the all-encompassing heat death takes hold and existence becomes static?
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Comments

  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    For atheists that think all existence has always been here and always will be: Let me just ask you, if a storm didn’t begin today, wouldn’t there be no storm at all?

    I think I might know what you're trying to say here, but I suggest you re-word it, because as written, it can be easily rebutted with "No, the storm started yesterday, and continues today."
  • godincarnatemegodincarnateme Shipmate
    edited November 18
    stetson wrote: »
    For atheists that think all existence has always been here and always will be: Let me just ask you, if a storm didn’t begin today, wouldn’t there be no storm at all?

    I think I might know what you're trying to say here, but I suggest you re-word it, because as written, it can be easily rebutted with "No, the storm started yesterday, and continues today."

    Nah, you get the point.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I'm not sure either of those positions are actually mainstream amongst atheists. But do remember that atheism just means not believing gods exist - it's not a complete defined belief system.
  • stetson wrote: »
    For atheists that think all existence has always been here and always will be: Let me just ask you, if a storm didn’t begin today, wouldn’t there be no storm at all?

    I think I might know what you're trying to say here, but I suggest you re-word it, because as written, it can be easily rebutted with "No, the storm started yesterday, and continues today."

    Nah, you get the point.

    That’s kinda rude.
  • I’m not an atheist, but I’m quite confident that the world was around before 1980. Just saying.
  • peasepease Tech Admin
    I am the storm.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    pease wrote: »
    I am the storm.

    I am the walrus.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    pease wrote: »
    I am the storm.

    I am the walrus.

    Can you hook me up with the pornographic priestess?
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    stetson wrote: »
    pease wrote: »
    I am the storm.

    I am the walrus.

    Can you hook me up with the pornographic priestess?

    Not within Ship rules, no. She's probably on Only Fans these days.
  • stetson wrote: »
    pease wrote: »
    I am the storm.

    I am the walrus.

    Can you hook me up with the pornographic priestess?

    Boy, you've been a naughty girl ......
  • ChastMastr wrote: »
    I’m not an atheist, but I’m quite confident that the world was around before 1980. Just saying.

    God created memories.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Same as he put fossils in the rocks. What a wag!
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Please don’t mock the afflicted.
  • Firenze wrote: »
    Same as he put fossils in the rocks. What a wag!

    Well, he had to make it look real. He couldn’t just come out and tell the world the truth. That would be too dangerous.
  • Please don’t mock the afflicted.

    Afflicted? Nah.
  • A question for @godincarnateme - are you the Bad God of the Dualists (Marcionites, Bogomils, Cathars etc. etc.), or the Good God?
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited November 18
    A question for @godincarnateme - are you the Bad God of the Dualists (Marcionites, Bogomils, Cathars etc. etc.), or the Good God?
    Why do I now have Glinda the Good asking Dorothy “Are you a good witch or a bad witch?,” stuck in my head? And Dorothy’s answer: “Oh, I’m not a witch at all!”


  • A question for @godincarnateme - are you the Bad God of the Dualists (Marcionites, Bogomils, Cathars etc. etc.), or the Good God?

    Haha. I’m imperfect just like the rest of you. And I recognize an imperfect creator. Oh well, can’t win ‘em all.
  • O. The Bad God, then.
    :grimace:
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    Same as he put fossils in the rocks. What a wag!

    Well, he had to make it look real. He couldn’t just come out and tell the world the truth. That would be too dangerous.

    Why would it be dangerous? God isn't subject to danger.

    Also, going back to the questions about atheists and storms - I'm not an atheist, but most people (religious or otherwise) believe in basic metereology/physical geography like the water cycle. I don't think that God creates every individual storm, why would anyone who is aware of where storms come from? Likewise people who believe in the Big Bang includes many Christians, and such belief includes knowing that eventually the universe stops expanding and starts retracting and eventually will end. This is extremely basic grade-school science.
  • godincarnatemegodincarnateme Shipmate
    edited November 18
    If God would have revealed to the world that I am his incarnation, some lunatic would try to off me. Haha. I know your next question is then why share it with the world. Well, nobody’s gonna believe me. So we’re safe. @Pomona
  • Shouldn't this thread be in The Circus?
  • Shouldn't this thread be in The Circus?
    The show must go on
  • Shouldn't this thread be in The Circus?

    'Why, this is Hell, nor are we out of it'.
    Yes, I know this is Purgatory, but the Satan's comment from Goethe's 'Faust' seems apposite.

    GIC is not here for a serious discussion. Which prompts the question. what is GIC wanting here? Doesn't seem fun to me I'm afraid as I find myself, inappropriately, and against the Ship's guidelines, wanting to give GIC psychotherapy.

    LHM!
  • Quite so.
    :wink:
  • RockyRoger wrote: »
    Shouldn't this thread be in The Circus?

    'Why, this is Hell, nor are we out of it'.
    Yes, I know this is Purgatory, but the Satan's comment from Goethe's 'Faust' seems apposite.

    GIC is not here for a serious discussion. Which prompts the question. what is GIC wanting here? Doesn't seem fun to me I'm afraid as I find myself, inappropriately, and against the Ship's guidelines, wanting to give GIC psychotherapy.

    LHM!

    No one here has engaged me in serious conversation so far.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited November 18
    RockyRoger wrote: »
    Shouldn't this thread be in The Circus?

    'Why, this is Hell, nor are we out of it'.
    Yes, I know this is Purgatory, but the Satan's comment from Goethe's 'Faust' seems apposite.

    GIC is not here for a serious discussion. Which prompts the question. what is GIC wanting here? Doesn't seem fun to me I'm afraid as I find myself, inappropriately, and against the Ship's guidelines, wanting to give GIC psychotherapy.

    LHM!

    No one here has engaged me in serious conversation so far.

    I wonder why this should be so? Could it be that you're posting a load of Tosh which can't be taken seriously?

    I asked you a serious question - a while ago - concerning Dualism, but I didn't really get a sensible answer. I'm not being snarky, but I do wonder if perhaps @RockyRoger is right...

  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited November 18
    @godincarnateme well, if the question is do we believe you I think the answer is no.

    As a Quaker I would say there is that of God in everybody - but I don’t think your understanding of yourself as specially incarnate being who brought about creation with your manifestation in 1980 is really what is meant by that. One reason I don’t believe that, is I was born before that and have some memories that predate 1980. Given we all have our own subjective experience, you are unlikely to convince anyone that your subjective experience is right and everyone else’s lived experience is wrong by simply asserting that repeatedly.

    You could discuss many things on this site - it doesn’t have to be your experience of godhood. But if you must - my question would be, if you were right, what practical difference would that make to my life and/or death ? Is there something I am supposed to do differently as a result ?
  • @godincarnateme well, if the question is do we believe you I think the answer is no.

    As a Quaker I would say there is that of God in everybody - but I don’t think your understanding of yourself as specially incarnate being who brought about creation with your manifestation in 1980 is really what is meant by that. One reason I don’t believe that, is I was born before that and have some memories that predate 1980. Given we all have our own subjective experience, you are unlikely to convince anyone that your subjective experience is right and everyone else’s lived experience is wrong by simply asserting that repeatedly.

    You could discuss many things on this site - it doesn’t have to be your experience of godhood. But if you must - my question would be, if you were right, what practical difference would that make to my life and/or death ? Is there something I am supposed to do differently as a result ?

    The practical difference would be you knowing the truth. You don’t have to necessarily think it’s me. You could think it’s somebody on earth. No biggy. Or if you’re happy with what you believe as a quaker than have at it.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    OK so if I know the truth - now what ? Does this change the meaning of Jesus’ incarnation and death - or is it basically irrelevant to how I go about my daily life ?
  • OK so if I know the truth - now what ? Does this change the meaning of Jesus’ incarnation and death - or is it basically irrelevant to how I go about my daily life ?

    Well, if you know the truth, you would see that Jesus never existed. But if you believe in Jesus, go for it.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited November 18
    OK - so if Jesus never existed - how does that change my life ? What does your incarnation do for me or the world at large, if anything ?

    I’m thinking the reality of your incarnation is a Pascal’s wager type situation - if it makes no difference how I respond to it, I don’t need to believe it.
  • godincarnatemegodincarnateme Shipmate
    edited November 18
    OK - so if Jesus never existed - how does that change my life ? What does your incarnation do for me or the world at large, if anything ?

    I’m thinking the reality of your incarnation is a Pascal’s wager type situation - if it makes no difference how I respond to it, I don’t need to believe it.

    Knowing that you are going to experience life again and again might bring you some joy, idk. Also knowing that me and God are behind it all might be kind of cool for you to know…….or not. It’s all good, think what you want. You can pascal wager it up.
  • 'Me and God'? Does that mean you aren't God Incarnate, or that there is more than one God (you being one of them)?

    I'm getting confused, and need enlightenment. I ask again - are you le bon Dieu - the good God - or le mal Dieu - the bad God?
  • 'Me and God'? Does that mean you aren't God Incarnate, or that there is more than one God (you being one of them)?

    I'm getting confused, and need enlightenment. I ask again - are you le bon Dieu - the good God - or le mal Dieu - the bad God?

    Lol

    The God I reside within and am a part of, beyond name or form, constitutes an imperfect, singular universe, infinite in His spatial expanse, material in His composition, and the origin from which all wisdom and entities derive.

    I am His incarnation

    We are not physically connected. We are metaphysically connected. He is the space and my life is His time.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited November 18
    @godincarnateme seems somewhat Buddhist really. But basically, I don’t need to do anything so therefore I don’t really need to think about it.

    So you’ve told us now - we have believed or not as maybe. Can we move on, it’s usually cool to have a new person engage with our community - there are lots of threads on many different topics I am sure you would find some interesting discussions. Also, don’t forget to introduce yourself on the All Saints welcome thread.

    Please restrict any further discussion of your experience of yourself as a divine incarnated being to this thread we are currently posting on and this thread.. FAQs for the forums are found here and each forum has a brief description at the top - moderation queries etc should be taken up in Styx.

    Thanks,

    Doublethink, Admin
  • @godincarnateme seems somewhat Buddhist really. But basically, I don’t need to do anything so therefore I don’t really need to think about it.

    So you’ve told us now - we have believed or not as maybe. Can we move on, it’s usually cool to have a new person engage with our community - there are lots of threads on many different topics I am sure you would find some interesting discussions. Also, don’t forget to introduce yourself on the All Saints welcome thread.

    Please restrict any further discussion of your experience of yourself as a divine incarnated being to this thread we are currently posting on and this thread.. FAQs for the forums are found here and each forum has a brief description at the top - moderation queries etc should be taken up in Styx.

    Thanks,

    Doublethink, Admin

    Well, if I can’t be myself while engaging in other threads on this website then I don’t want any part of it. Thanks anyway. Have a good one.
  • peasepease Tech Admin
    One practical implication (or application) of endless recurrence is living life to the full - making the most of every experience, both good and bad, as they'll all be repeated, eternally.
  • @godincarnateme seems somewhat Buddhist really. But basically, I don’t need to do anything so therefore I don’t really need to think about it.

    So you’ve told us now - we have believed or not as maybe. Can we move on, it’s usually cool to have a new person engage with our community - there are lots of threads on many different topics I am sure you would find some interesting discussions. Also, don’t forget to introduce yourself on the All Saints welcome thread.

    Please restrict any further discussion of your experience of yourself as a divine incarnated being to this thread we are currently posting on and this thread.. FAQs for the forums are found here and each forum has a brief description at the top - moderation queries etc should be taken up in Styx.

    Thanks,

    Doublethink, Admin

    Well, if I can’t be myself while engaging in other threads on this website then I don’t want any part of it. Thanks anyway. Have a good one.

    Fascinating. You equate "being myself" with "sounding off about my divinity all the time, everywhere." Even the real Jesus never did that.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited November 18
    @godincarnateme you can be yourself it’s just, if a thread is on say - Keir Starmer’s performance as PM, the best tune for a particular hymn, or how to train labradors - then those threads should stay largely focused on those topics.

    Our experience has previously been that when people join and have a religious message, sometimes they end up starting lots of threads on it or turning other threads to that topic regardless of the op, I’m just requesting you avoid doing that.
  • @godincarnateme you can be yourself it’s just, if a thread is on say - Keir Starmer’s performance as PM, the best tune for a particular hymn, or how to train labradors - then those threads should stay largely focused on those topics.

    Our experience has previously been that when people join and have a religious message, sometimes they end up starting lots of threads on it or turning other threads to that topic regardless of the op, I’m just requesting you avoid doing that.

    You made it clear when you said: Please restrict any further discussion of your experience of yourself as a divine incarnated being.

    I’m all set.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    'Me and God'? Does that mean you aren't God Incarnate, or that there is more than one God (you being one of them)?

    I'm getting confused, and need enlightenment. I ask again - are you le bon Dieu - the good God - or le mal Dieu - the bad God?

    Lol

    The God I reside within and am a part of, beyond name or form, constitutes an imperfect, singular universe, infinite in His spatial expanse, material in His composition, and the origin from which all wisdom and entities derive.

    I am His incarnation

    We are not physically connected. We are metaphysically connected. He is the space and my life is His time.

    Hang on. God is "material in His composition", but you are "His incarnation"?
  • Atheist here. I don't know or much care how or when the universe was created, or perhaps it's always existed. It has nothing whatsoever to do with my atheism, which is merely the naked fact that I do not believe in God or any gods. It (referring to cosmogeny) is quite irrelevant to my daily life, except as a polite interest to blather about over tea.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus

    Well, if I can’t be myself while engaging in other threads on this website then I don’t want any part of it. Thanks anyway. Have a good one.

    New byline for The Ship. Even God flounced.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    @godincarnateme you can be yourself it’s just, if a thread is on say - Keir Starmer’s performance as PM, the best tune for a particular hymn, or how to train labradors - then those threads should stay largely focused on those topics.

    Our experience has previously been that when people join and have a religious message, sometimes they end up starting lots of threads on it or turning other threads to that topic regardless of the op, I’m just requesting you avoid doing that.

    You made it clear when you said: Please restrict any further discussion of your experience of yourself as a divine incarnated being.

    I’m all set.

    I said, restrict it to the two threads that are already about that topic.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Firenze wrote: »

    Well, if I can’t be myself while engaging in other threads on this website then I don’t want any part of it. Thanks anyway. Have a good one.

    New byline for The Ship. Even God flounced.

    :mrgreen:
  • Firenze wrote: »

    Well, if I can’t be myself while engaging in other threads on this website then I don’t want any part of it. Thanks anyway. Have a good one.

    New byline for The Ship. Even God flounced.

    :lol:

    Which God, though?

    That said, there is room here for some at least semi-serious discussion.
  • @Doublethink
    I see. So this thread and what was the other one? I couldn’t click on your link. It said I needed a JavaScript.
  • godincarnatemegodincarnateme Shipmate
    edited November 18
    Hang on. God is "material in His composition", but you are "His incarnation"?

    @stetson Incarnation means in human form.

    (ETA fixed code, DT)
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited November 18
    @godincarnateme ”The secret Christians aren’t sharing with you” was the other thread.
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