Indeed. I've seen "banter" used as an excuse many times, and I've never yet found that the tone ("I was just joking") came through successfully. Like others on the Ship, I'm a professional writer for my living, so communicating tone is what I do--and the "banter" thing is just not working, at least on sensitive subjects like nationality.
I agree we need to be careful how we post. I have found some of the things our US posters have said unwarranted and unfair and at times downright rude. I have said nothing until now because I have understood pond differences. What we are talking about works for all shipmates not just some. We need a balance.
Anyway as I said supporters seem to be making the best of it. It also appears the locals are too.
There’s a pretty fundamental problem, namely that people are almost always pleasant while governments tend towards being pretty nasty, and try to get support amongst its citizens by portraying foreigners as the source of every evil.
The problem with this view is that governments are elected by people. A large number of people do seem to be able to hold the "not you - you're one of the good ones" racist delusion that makes them perfectly polite and friendly towards individual people who are immigrants or members of some minority community or other, whilst simultaneously holding the opinion that in general, people from that community are scroungers taking advantage of my hard-earned taxes, or stealing all our jobs, or wanting to do X, Y, or Z.
To me, this seems to be the largest disjunction between the behavior of a "typical" member of some country or other, and the behavior of that country's democratically elected government.
Please don’t mistake dumping on your administration for dumping on your people.
There's more of the former than the latter, but there's still plenty of the latter.
No I disagree. You are taking too much to heart. This World Cup has been badly organised. None of us said anything about people, only about the government and organisation. Fans are known for making the best of a situation. No matter how bad they are determined to have a good time.
It was you who said Americans don’t care not us.
FWIW, I think the American people - those I have encountered online and in person - are amazing, lovely, outgoing people.
And Ruth is right - there is a tendency (in all sorts of SM) to assume all of the US is totally behind Trump and what he is doing, apart from a small plucky band of rebels. Which is rubbish. Just like everyone in the UK is not supporting Farage and his campaign for the ordinary person against the establishment.
The politicians in the US - whatever position they are in - suck. But then the politicians in the UK suck too, on the whole. They always have, but they are being so much more open about it these days.
The West has a desperate lack of quality leaders. But that is no excuse for dumping on the ordinary people who - in the US and the UK, and wider - are mostly sick of the antics of the rich and powerful.
And most importantly - we need to support and encourage and strengthen each other. Not whine about each others corrupt leadership.
FWIW, I think the American people - those I have encountered online and in person - are amazing, lovely, outgoing people.
And Ruth is right - there is a tendency (in all sorts of SM) to assume all of the US is totally behind Trump and what he is doing, apart from a small plucky band of rebels. Which is rubbish. Just like everyone in the UK is not supporting Farage and his campaign for the ordinary person against the establishment.
The politicians in the US - whatever position they are in - suck. But then the politicians in the UK suck too, on the whole. They always have, but they are being so much more open about it these days.
The West has a desperate lack of quality leaders. But that is no excuse for dumping on the ordinary people who - in the US and the UK, and wider - are mostly sick of the antics of the rich and powerful.
And most importantly - we need to support and encourage and strengthen each other. Not whine about each others corrupt leadership.
I for one don’t. I have met lots of great Americans. As to whining, this is Hell a place to whine. A place to get angry.
Please don’t mistake dumping on your administration for dumping on your people.
There's more of the former than the latter, but there's still plenty of the latter.
No I disagree. You are taking too much to heart. This World Cup has been badly organised. None of us said anything about people, only about the government and organisation. Fans are known for making the best of a situation. No matter how bad they are determined to have a good time.
It was you who said Americans don’t care not us.
I'm not just talking about this thread.
My answer still applies. We need balance. The rules apply to all ship
I have been trying to avoid the World War - I mean, the World Cup - but it's almost impossible to avoid seeing pictures of the teams and headlines of results when doomscrolling to something else. And I have a question: why are some of the teams wearing pink football boots?
I agree we need to be careful how we post. I have found some of the things our US posters have said unwarranted and unfair and at times downright rude. I have said nothing until now because I have understood pond differences.
Give an example where a US shipmate has started a thread in Hell to dump on the UK or has ventured into a UK-centric thread elsewhere to criticize a place they don't live. Give some examples where hosts have had to caution US shipmates about starting a pond war.
You're not even a soccer fan. But you decided it would be a good idea to start this thread. Within the rules, sure. But it's a thread to shit on the US about something that doesn't even affect you.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - every time I see a UK shipmate talking about British politeness, I roll my eyes.
You're not even a soccer fan. But you decided it would be a good idea to start this thread. Within the rules, sure. But it's a thread to shit on the US about something that doesn't even affect you.
I will read into the record that the most dramatic of the OP's implied predictions, ie. Trump moving matches out of Democratic cities, didn't get anywhere near coming true.
(And not to brag, but I remember predicting right from the moment Trump made that threat that it would not materialize, for reasons I assumed should be obvious. I don't know if Trump's more wackadoodle ideas are intended as trial balloons to see how the other relevant actors respond, or just attempts to distract his opponents from more substantial issues, but even if they they are the former, their ultimate effect is usually the latter.)
As a football/soccer fan, I am not in the slightest gutted!
Yes, FIFA (theifa) are corrupt and we all know the 'hydration break' is there so various channels worldwide can have ad breaks and find a way to pay theifa for the rights to show the games. However, somehow the World Cup is compulsive viewing. This massive event has resulted in me becoming a semi-nocturnal mess, but watch it I must.
Having read through the pond war above can I suggest you all start a different new thread and I will bring this back to the topic and hope other fans join me.
I am inspired by the heroics of the smaller nations like Australia. Yes, I know, they are not a small nation in size but I am talking football/soccer. I admire the Iranians for even managing to play in this tournament, given the logistical hurdles and that they are playing in a country that has been bombing them (as this is about football/soccer I will not discuss the rights and wrongs of this 'excursion' or dare we call it - war).
On the negative side, I hate how Infantino (theifa head) sits at every game like his the king of football/soccer. He looks like his thinking, all these silly footballers are here because of me and I despise you all. One of these times the cameras will catch him checking his bank account on his phone.
I hated the various rule changes when they were announced. It seemed like tinkering and plain silly. However, after one round of group games, I have to say the rule changes have led to a much improved set of games. The old complaint levelled at football/soccer players that all they do is throw themselves to the ground and roll around is being changed. Such play acting/cheating is no longer being rewarded and players are having to get up and play or risk their teams being punished, in the best way, by conceding a goal.
A major concern for me is any attempt by theifa to give certain countries and mega star players a free pass to be thugs. It is shameful to turn a blind eye just because this man has been such a huge star. I hope the claims, by some, that the tournament is being scripted so a certain nation will win proves to not be the case.
Are there any other football/soccer fans reading this thread? I would love for you to join in and we can have a proper chat about the world cup minus the pond war politics!
Having read through the pond war above can I suggest you all start a different new thread and I will bring this back to the topic and hope other fans join me.
This is a Hell thread, created for the purpose of complaining about the manner in which the World Cup is being hosted. That is the topic of this thread.
There is another thread in The Circus—Le Mondial, 2026—for discussion and appreciation of the games.
I agree we need to be careful how we post. I have found some of the things our US posters have said unwarranted and unfair and at times downright rude. I have said nothing until now because I have understood pond differences.
Give an example where a US shipmate has started a thread in Hell to dump on the UK or has ventured into a UK-centric thread elsewhere to criticize a place they don't live. Give some examples where hosts have had to caution US shipmates about starting a pond war.
You're not even a soccer fan. But you decided it would be a good idea to start this thread. Within the rules, sure. But it's a thread to shit on the US about something that doesn't even affect you.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - every time I see a UK shipmate talking about British politeness, I roll my eyes.
Complete and utter rubbish. I am not doing that. I am giving people space to complain about the way things have been organised that is not about the US it is about the organisation. FIFA are as much in the fire line as anyone else.
You are wrong about it not affecting me. It is everywhere over here. If I like it or not it affecting television, it is all over the shops, it is massive over here. I can’t go anywhere without its presence.
I’m not into sports in general, but FIFA giving Trump a made-up “FIFA Peace Prize” disgusted me. I could also do without every single day’s Google doodle being about the World Cup. But I don’t mind other people being into it.
Did I say there was anything wrong with it? I think it's great that men can wear pink now. It was just surprising, when the last time I paid any attention to football they were all wearing black or white boots.
These switches in nationality baffle me. Laporte was born in France and ends up playing for Spain, and there are others. I suppose it's not unique to football.
These switches in nationality baffle me. Laporte was born in France and ends up playing for Spain, and there are others. I suppose it's not unique to football.
There’s no end to it. Generally you can qualify by your place and birth, that of your parents or grandparents, or residence. You can even switch from one country to another after a period. It used to be ten years, but I think it’s three years now. Of course, you can qualify by citizenship, which might simply be a commercial transaction.
Did I say there was anything wrong with it? I think it's great that men can wear pink now. It was just surprising, when the last time I paid any attention to football they were all wearing black or white boots.
You didn't - I inferred it (wrongly, my apologies) because this thread is for complaining about World Cup-related things.
It didn't surprise me because baseball players wear all sorts of different colored shoes. Used to be there was a uniform shoe, but no more.
Maybe the shoe company endorsements are a contributing factor? But I have no idea.
I watch tennis. Apart from Wimbledon where the code is White, you can see the lines the sportswear manufacturers are pushing. Now and again both players come on in the same outfits. Unless you're Federer or Nadal who used to have monographed shoes AIR.
Personally, footballers could be playing in Laboutins and I still wouldn't find it interesting.
It didn't surprise me because baseball players wear all sorts of different colored shoes. Used to be there was a uniform shoe, but no more.
Maybe the shoe company endorsements are a contributing factor? But I have no idea.
I know that in at least some instances, wearing pink shoes started as a breast cancer awareness thing. I think I first noticed it with a college men’s basketball team; one of the women’s basketball coaches at that university was dealing with breast cancer. I’ve since seen that sort of thing at other colleges/universities.
I watch tennis. Apart from Wimbledon where the code is White, you can see the lines the sportswear manufacturers are pushing. Now and again both players come on in the same outfits. Unless you're Federer or Nadal who used to have monographed shoes AIR.
Personally, footballers could be playing in Laboutins and I still wouldn't find it interesting.
Though I might watch a group of stilt walkers play football with them on.
Being held in the USA is reason enough to stay home (wherever that is, can't be worse), plus there are two, four, or seven (depending on your favoured football code, soccer not being regarded as football in Australia) too few players. I have no sympathy for them, silly asses should never have set foot in the accursèd hole.
A host will be along sooner or later to warn against pond wars, as if this is mutual combat and not yet another instance of a shipmate shitting on the US without provocation. And don't caution me about a meta pond war or some such shit. This happens again and again and again. People from other countries don't have to deal with this kind of thing. And Americans aren't taking repeated potshots at other countries. This all comes our direction, and our direction only.
It’s because the US is the most powerful country on earth and people think they are “punching up” - doesn’t make it right.
When I was at an international college for sixth form, 72 nationalities, pupils would put on a national evening every week, large countries with more pupils had their own evening and smaller countries grouped together. At each one they’d sing their national anthem and everyone would stand for it.
Come the UK, the Scots sang Flower of Scotland, the NI folk sang Danny Boy, the Welsh sang Land of Our Fathers. The English sang If You’re Happy and You Know It, Clap Your Hands - because we were too embarrassed to sing Land of Hope of Glory and no one sang (God Save the Queen). To embarrassed because we lived with some many of the children of colonised countries.
It is difficult to be proud to be British when someone asks you to explain the Amritsar Massacre or the invention of concentration camps. But we were a target for such conversations because of the British Empire, though even then - 30 years ago - the focus was starting to switch to America.
From the U.K. and agreeing with Ruth. Over here we pride ourselves on our tolerance with no good reason nowadays and we need to get over that.
Our spiteful remarks about the USA and citizens thereof have a number of half-baked roots worthy of the worst tabloid newspapers and social media. There’s folk memories that are based on false expectations and envy.
I’m sorry Ruth, I’ve indulged myself in US bashing from time to time and I shall think and edit before posting. Or simply delete.
I know why it happens. I also have a pretty good idea about what sucks about the US. I just don't think it's too much to ask that shipmates think for a moment about the individual Americans who are reading these attacks on the country as a whole and remember that we are real people.
I also don't think it's too much to ask that the powers that be -- including you, @Doublethink -- acknowledge that calling these "pond wars" fails to recognize what's happening. Americans are not firing back. We aren't shitting on other places. When people like @Foaming Draught condemn the entirety of the US, we don't come back with attacks on other countries. We protest and we defend ourselves, we attack the individuals who say these things, but we don't respond in kind. It's all very one-sided, and the way the H&As handle this makes me furious.
From the U.K. and agreeing with Ruth. Over here we pride ourselves on our tolerance with no good reason nowadays and we need to get over that.
Our spiteful remarks about the USA and citizens thereof have a number of half-baked roots worthy of the worst tabloid newspapers and social media. There’s folk memories that are based on false expectations and envy.
I’m sorry Ruth, I’ve indulged myself in US bashing from time to time and I shall think and edit before posting. Or simply delete.
Not in general, but German football fans must be gutted as one of their defenders has been injured and is out of the tournament.
Moreover, they can’t call up a replacement as the tournament has already started. Another demerit mark to FIFA
Being held in the USA is reason enough to stay home (wherever that is, can't be worse), plus there are two, four, or seven (depending on your favoured football code, soccer not being regarded as football in Australia) too few players. I have no sympathy for them, silly asses should never have set foot in the accursèd hole.
Someone in Australia must think soccer is some form of football, since they sent a team. Probably a whole lot of Australians think soccer is football. They've attempted to qualify for the World Cup 15 times, and succeeded seven. Wikipedia tells me it's the most played outdoor team sport in Australia, though not as popular in TV viewing as Australian rules football or rugby.
And now before my blood pressure gets any higher, I am going to go out for a walk in my neighborhood of "accurséd hole" (note that the proper way to indicate that this is a three-syllable word is the acute accent) where it is in fact quite lovely.
There are some good things about this world cup. For a start, the fact that the Scots drank Boston dry, and that they were loud in their opinion that neither Coors nor Bud Light should be considered to be beer.
When I was at an international college for sixth form, 72 nationalities, pupils would put on Come the UK, the Scots sang Flower of Scotland, the NI folk sang Danny Boy, the Welsh sang Land of Our Fathers. The English sang If You’re Happy and You Know It, Clap Your Hands - because we were too embarrassed to sing Land of Hope of Glory and no one sang (God Save the Queen). To embarrassed because we lived with some many of the children of colonised countries.
If the NI kids could sing "Danny Boy", the lyrics to which weren't even written by an Englishmen and reference Ireland only via vague landscape imagery, surely the English coulda come up with something equally non-imperial but also more representative of their people than IYHAYKICYH?
There are some good things about this world cup. For a start, the fact that the Scots drank Boston dry, and that they were loud in their opinion that neither Coors nor Bud Light should be considered to be beer.
Oh God. Are we doing "Yer beer sucks!" jokes, now?
Commenting to add my disgust wrt the anti-American comments. I don't recall if I've ever indulged in them but apologise if I have. I'm not watching the football but I have enjoyed seeing fans from overseas enjoy themselves, especially the Scots drinking Boston dry! Most Americans are just nice, normal people - just like anywhere else.
There are some good things about this world cup. For a start, the fact that the Scots drank Boston dry, and that they were loud in their opinion that neither Coors nor Bud Light should be considered to be beer.
Oh God. Are we doing "Yer beer sucks!" jokes, now?
They're absolutely right that Coors and Bud Light are terrible. The Scots apparently did like the Sam Adams though; the taproom did four times the business they usually do on a holiday weekend, and they had to get an emergency delivery.
There are some good things about this world cup. For a start, the fact that the Scots drank Boston dry, and that they were loud in their opinion that neither Coors nor Bud Light should be considered to be beer.
Oh God. Are we doing "Yer beer sucks!" jokes, now?
They're absolutely right that Coors and Bud Light are terrible. The Scots apparently did like the Sam Adams though; the taproom did four times the business they usually do on a holiday weekend, and they had to get an emergency delivery.
Fair enough. I'm not gonna argue preferences in palate. Preferences in humour, OTOH...
Comments
Anyway as I said supporters seem to be making the best of it. It also appears the locals are too.
The problem with this view is that governments are elected by people. A large number of people do seem to be able to hold the "not you - you're one of the good ones" racist delusion that makes them perfectly polite and friendly towards individual people who are immigrants or members of some minority community or other, whilst simultaneously holding the opinion that in general, people from that community are scroungers taking advantage of my hard-earned taxes, or stealing all our jobs, or wanting to do X, Y, or Z.
To me, this seems to be the largest disjunction between the behavior of a "typical" member of some country or other, and the behavior of that country's democratically elected government.
I'm not just talking about this thread.
And Ruth is right - there is a tendency (in all sorts of SM) to assume all of the US is totally behind Trump and what he is doing, apart from a small plucky band of rebels. Which is rubbish. Just like everyone in the UK is not supporting Farage and his campaign for the ordinary person against the establishment.
The politicians in the US - whatever position they are in - suck. But then the politicians in the UK suck too, on the whole. They always have, but they are being so much more open about it these days.
The West has a desperate lack of quality leaders. But that is no excuse for dumping on the ordinary people who - in the US and the UK, and wider - are mostly sick of the antics of the rich and powerful.
And most importantly - we need to support and encourage and strengthen each other. Not whine about each others corrupt leadership.
I for one don’t. I have met lots of great Americans. As to whining, this is Hell a place to whine. A place to get angry.
My answer still applies. We need balance. The rules apply to all ship
Give an example where a US shipmate has started a thread in Hell to dump on the UK or has ventured into a UK-centric thread elsewhere to criticize a place they don't live. Give some examples where hosts have had to caution US shipmates about starting a pond war.
You're not even a soccer fan. But you decided it would be a good idea to start this thread. Within the rules, sure. But it's a thread to shit on the US about something that doesn't even affect you.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - every time I see a UK shipmate talking about British politeness, I roll my eyes.
Please stop!
Give me a break. You can't blame Trump. It goes back decades.
Sigh .....
I will read into the record that the most dramatic of the OP's implied predictions, ie. Trump moving matches out of Democratic cities, didn't get anywhere near coming true.
(And not to brag, but I remember predicting right from the moment Trump made that threat that it would not materialize, for reasons I assumed should be obvious. I don't know if Trump's more wackadoodle ideas are intended as trial balloons to see how the other relevant actors respond, or just attempts to distract his opponents from more substantial issues, but even if they they are the former, their ultimate effect is usually the latter.)
Dafyd Hell Host
Yes, FIFA (theifa) are corrupt and we all know the 'hydration break' is there so various channels worldwide can have ad breaks and find a way to pay theifa for the rights to show the games. However, somehow the World Cup is compulsive viewing. This massive event has resulted in me becoming a semi-nocturnal mess, but watch it I must.
Having read through the pond war above can I suggest you all start a different new thread and I will bring this back to the topic and hope other fans join me.
I am inspired by the heroics of the smaller nations like Australia. Yes, I know, they are not a small nation in size but I am talking football/soccer. I admire the Iranians for even managing to play in this tournament, given the logistical hurdles and that they are playing in a country that has been bombing them (as this is about football/soccer I will not discuss the rights and wrongs of this 'excursion' or dare we call it - war).
On the negative side, I hate how Infantino (theifa head) sits at every game like his the king of football/soccer. He looks like his thinking, all these silly footballers are here because of me and I despise you all. One of these times the cameras will catch him checking his bank account on his phone.
I hated the various rule changes when they were announced. It seemed like tinkering and plain silly. However, after one round of group games, I have to say the rule changes have led to a much improved set of games. The old complaint levelled at football/soccer players that all they do is throw themselves to the ground and roll around is being changed. Such play acting/cheating is no longer being rewarded and players are having to get up and play or risk their teams being punished, in the best way, by conceding a goal.
A major concern for me is any attempt by theifa to give certain countries and mega star players a free pass to be thugs. It is shameful to turn a blind eye just because this man has been such a huge star. I hope the claims, by some, that the tournament is being scripted so a certain nation will win proves to not be the case.
Are there any other football/soccer fans reading this thread? I would love for you to join in and we can have a proper chat about the world cup minus the pond war politics!
There is another thread in The Circus—Le Mondial, 2026—for discussion and appreciation of the games.
Complete and utter rubbish. I am not doing that. I am giving people space to complain about the way things have been organised that is not about the US it is about the organisation. FIFA are as much in the fire line as anyone else.
You are wrong about it not affecting me. It is everywhere over here. If I like it or not it affecting television, it is all over the shops, it is massive over here. I can’t go anywhere without its presence.
Dafyd Hell Host
Well, it’s the Babylon Bee, which used to be funny until it was bought by a far-right twit, so it sucks.
It was sold by the founder because he was uncomfortable with the lack of airtime being given to far-right twits.
Did I say there was anything wrong with it? I think it's great that men can wear pink now. It was just surprising, when the last time I paid any attention to football they were all wearing black or white boots.
There’s no end to it. Generally you can qualify by your place and birth, that of your parents or grandparents, or residence. You can even switch from one country to another after a period. It used to be ten years, but I think it’s three years now. Of course, you can qualify by citizenship, which might simply be a commercial transaction.
You didn't - I inferred it (wrongly, my apologies) because this thread is for complaining about World Cup-related things.
It didn't surprise me because baseball players wear all sorts of different colored shoes. Used to be there was a uniform shoe, but no more.
Maybe the shoe company endorsements are a contributing factor? But I have no idea.
Personally, footballers could be playing in Laboutins and I still wouldn't find it interesting.
Though I might watch a group of stilt walkers play football with them on.
When I was at an international college for sixth form, 72 nationalities, pupils would put on a national evening every week, large countries with more pupils had their own evening and smaller countries grouped together. At each one they’d sing their national anthem and everyone would stand for it.
Come the UK, the Scots sang Flower of Scotland, the NI folk sang Danny Boy, the Welsh sang Land of Our Fathers. The English sang If You’re Happy and You Know It, Clap Your Hands - because we were too embarrassed to sing Land of Hope of Glory and no one sang (God Save the Queen). To embarrassed because we lived with some many of the children of colonised countries.
It is difficult to be proud to be British when someone asks you to explain the Amritsar Massacre or the invention of concentration camps. But we were a target for such conversations because of the British Empire, though even then - 30 years ago - the focus was starting to switch to America.
Our spiteful remarks about the USA and citizens thereof have a number of half-baked roots worthy of the worst tabloid newspapers and social media. There’s folk memories that are based on false expectations and envy.
I’m sorry Ruth, I’ve indulged myself in US bashing from time to time and I shall think and edit before posting. Or simply delete.
I also don't think it's too much to ask that the powers that be -- including you, @Doublethink -- acknowledge that calling these "pond wars" fails to recognize what's happening. Americans are not firing back. We aren't shitting on other places. When people like @Foaming Draught condemn the entirety of the US, we don't come back with attacks on other countries. We protest and we defend ourselves, we attack the individuals who say these things, but we don't respond in kind. It's all very one-sided, and the way the H&As handle this makes me furious.
I appreciate this, thank you.
Moreover, they can’t call up a replacement as the tournament has already started. Another demerit mark to FIFA
Someone in Australia must think soccer is some form of football, since they sent a team. Probably a whole lot of Australians think soccer is football. They've attempted to qualify for the World Cup 15 times, and succeeded seven. Wikipedia tells me it's the most played outdoor team sport in Australia, though not as popular in TV viewing as Australian rules football or rugby.
And now before my blood pressure gets any higher, I am going to go out for a walk in my neighborhood of "accurséd hole" (note that the proper way to indicate that this is a three-syllable word is the acute accent) where it is in fact quite lovely.
If the NI kids could sing "Danny Boy", the lyrics to which weren't even written by an Englishmen and reference Ireland only via vague landscape imagery, surely the English coulda come up with something equally non-imperial but also more representative of their people than IYHAYKICYH?
Oh God. Are we doing "Yer beer sucks!" jokes, now?
They're absolutely right that Coors and Bud Light are terrible. The Scots apparently did like the Sam Adams though; the taproom did four times the business they usually do on a holiday weekend, and they had to get an emergency delivery.
Fair enough. I'm not gonna argue preferences in palate. Preferences in humour, OTOH...