Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • A little American Independence Day Humor for July 4th.

    King George III, Colour
    George Washington Color

    King Homour
    Washington Humor

    King Flavour
    Washington Flavor

    King What are you doing?
    Washington Getting rid of u.

    I can see why this didn't make it into the book for 'Hamilton'...
  • AnselminaAnselmina Shipmate
    orfeo wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    I was today years old when I first came across the barbarism "jailor".

    Not sure why it is a barbarism, apart from the fact that it should be gaoler.

    "Jailer" would be just fine.

    You mean like the Bible has it? I mean, folks, that's the Word of God no less!! If it's good enough for the Lord it's good enough for anybody :wink:
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Is the deploragable usage 'for free', meaning 'for nothing', or 'free' ('Scan your chargecard for the chance to get your shopping for free') prevalent in North America?
  • Yes.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Is the deploragable usage 'for free', meaning 'for nothing', or 'free' ('Scan your chargecard for the chance to get your shopping for free') prevalent in North America?

    Deplorable why?
  • I disavow any prior acquaintance with @NOprophet_NØprofit! He doesn't know the difference between battered and breaded? How could he face his (e.g.) Nova Scotian or Newfoundland cousins? Mine certainly have their cod battered, not breaded.

    Question for those wherever - Do you use a condiment on onion rings? I like mine with vinegar. A friend of mine, born in Antigonish, lived in Montréal, now in Toronto, is a convert to the Vinegar Party.

    tartar sauce
  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    Anselmina wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    I was today years old when I first came across the barbarism "jailor".

    Not sure why it is a barbarism, apart from the fact that it should be gaoler.

    "Jailer" would be just fine.

    You mean like the Bible has it? I mean, folks, that's the Word of God no less!! If it's good enough for the Lord it's good enough for anybody :wink:

    Now I want to go check a King James Version...
  • @mousethief Tartar sauce for onion rings? That would not have occurred to me, but I'm not opposed to it in principle. I'll try it.
  • @mousethief Tartar sauce for onion rings? That would not have occurred to me, but I'm not opposed to it in principle. I'll try it.

    This is Seattle. We eat tartar sauce on everything. My parents were visiting some other region of our beautiful country and asked for tartar sauce for their fries. The server said, "I'll bet you're from Seattle."
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I've never seen the charm of tartar sauce myself. But I'm prepared to allow that it may be one of these things - like pesto - where the bottled stuff is a world away from the fresh article.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Why not just say 'free'?
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Why not just say 'free'?

    Because some people's dialects use a preposition. I can't see what's so terrible. Perhaps in their dialects "free" can't be used adverbally so needs the "for" to create an adverbial phrase.
  • Firenze wrote: »
    I've never seen the charm of tartar sauce myself.
    Me neither, I’m afraid.

    If onion rings are, as the angels intend, breaded rather than battered, then any condiment may well be superfluous. But if one is desired, a good comeback sauce works well.

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Why not just say 'free'?

    Because some people's dialects use a preposition. I can't see what's so terrible. Perhaps in their dialects "free" can't be used adverbally so needs the "for" to create an adverbial phrase.

    Also, a lot of these things work by analogy, thus, for nothing, for a lot of money, etc., may influence for free. But as you say, dialects differ from standard English.
  • Rev per MinuteRev per Minute Shipmate
    edited July 2021
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Why not just say 'free'?

    Because some people's dialects use a preposition. I can't see what's so terrible. Perhaps in their dialects "free" can't be used adverbally so needs the "for" to create an adverbial phrase.

    Also, a lot of these things work by analogy, thus, for nothing, for a lot of money, etc., may influence for free. But as you say, dialects differ from standard English.

    I think the point of this thread is to show that there is no such thing as Standard English! Even if English was only spoken in England, 'standard' would only be defined by a (self-appointed) authority's choice, not by one version being the root of all the others. No 'Academie Anglaise', no standard version of the language.
  • Many churches in these parts are adopting a sticker system. Typically, though not always, the stickers are affixed to name tags (which are fairly common in these parts—not a trend I particularly like, but there it is). The stickers are red, yellow and green. Red means “I’m here, but I’m really not comfortable getting too close to people yet.” Yellow means “Some closeness and some limited contact is okay, but take it slowly please.” Green basically means “Bring on the hugs, I’m fine with them.” The idea is that the stickers give people a way to honor others’ comfort levels without having to announce them or ask about them.

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Why not just say 'free'?

    Because some people's dialects use a preposition. I can't see what's so terrible. Perhaps in their dialects "free" can't be used adverbally so needs the "for" to create an adverbial phrase.
    I assumed that "free" meant "free of charge", so the "for" doesn't belong there.
    ---
    In other news, being in New York for the 4th July, my beloved mother-in-law had me put up her Stars and Stripes flag on the porch. Nobody else would have had the nerve to ask.
  • I'm left wondering which dialect of English has 'homour' rather than 'humour' or 'humor'.

    Tartare sauce is for use with fish. It may go with other things but it makes the Baby Jesus cry.
  • I'm left wondering which dialect of English has 'homour' rather than 'humour' or 'humor'.

    Tartare sauce is for use with fish. It may go with other things but it makes the Baby Jesus cry.
    :naughty: Tangent:
    What is wrong with making Baby Jesus cry? I don't recall anything about Jesus crying ever.
    /Tangent
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Firenze wrote: »
    I've never seen the charm of tartar sauce myself.
    Me neither, I’m afraid.

    If onion rings are, as the angels intend, breaded rather than battered, then any condiment may well be superfluous. But if one is desired, a good comeback sauce works well.

    Agree. Tartar sauce is for battered o rings. Breaded o rings need no accompaniment other than beer/cider.
  • Gill HGill H Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Why not just say 'free'?

    Because some people's dialects use a preposition. I can't see what's so terrible. Perhaps in their dialects "free" can't be used adverbally so needs the "for" to create an adverbial phrase.

    Also, a lot of these things work by analogy, thus, for nothing, for a lot of money, etc., may influence for free. But as you say, dialects differ from standard English.

    Or because Dire Straits would have to pay for their chicks.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Why not just say 'free'?

    Because some people's dialects use a preposition. I can't see what's so terrible. Perhaps in their dialects "free" can't be used adverbally so needs the "for" to create an adverbial phrase.

    Also, a lot of these things work by analogy, thus, for nothing, for a lot of money, etc., may influence for free. But as you say, dialects differ from standard English.

    I think the point of this thread is to show that there is no such thing as Standard English! Even if English was only spoken in England, 'standard' would only be defined by a (self-appointed) authority's choice, not by one version being the root of all the others. No 'Academie Anglaise', no standard version of the language.

    Well, it's true that no form of English is prescribed centrally, but Standard English is unique in being a class dialect, not a geographic one. Most middle class and upper middle class people in England use it. Its accent is Received Pronunciation, although you do get SE with regional accents, and also conservative RP, rapidly disappearing.

    There is a straightforward test, show me a video of an English speaker, and in 5 minutes I will tell you if they are using SE.
  • LeafLeaf Shipmate
    What is wrong with making Baby Jesus cry? I don't recall anything about Jesus crying ever.
    Tangent: shortest verse in the Bible is John 11:35, "Jesus wept."

  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Why not just say 'free'?

    Because some people's dialects use a preposition. I can't see what's so terrible. Perhaps in their dialects "free" can't be used adverbally so needs the "for" to create an adverbial phrase.

    Also, a lot of these things work by analogy, thus, for nothing, for a lot of money, etc., may influence for free. But as you say, dialects differ from standard English.

    I think the point of this thread is to show that there is no such thing as Standard English! Even if English was only spoken in England, 'standard' would only be defined by a (self-appointed) authority's choice, not by one version being the root of all the others. No 'Academie Anglaise', no standard version of the language.

    Well, it's true that no form of English is prescribed centrally, but Standard English is unique in being a class dialect, not a geographic one. Most middle class and upper middle class people in England use it. Its accent is Received Pronunciation, although you do get SE with regional accents, and also conservative RP, rapidly disappearing.

    There is a straightforward test, show me a video of an English speaker, and in 5 minutes I will tell you if they are using SE.

    Well it is a geographic one as well, actually, at least in its origins. 'Standard' English is fairly heavily based on what was going on around London.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    You people don't know how to live if you don't use Fry Sauce. For those unfamiliar with fry sauce, this condiment is traditionally a combination of ketchup and mayonnaise flavored with everything from black pepper to garlic to horseradish. The resulting sauce is always rich and creamy with tons of tang and a backbite of spicy, peppery goodness. There has been a long-running argument about where it came from. Some say Utah. Others say Idaho.
  • Let me listen to someone and I can tell you if they're from Boston or not. Big deal. Doesn't make Bostonian some kind of master dialect that all other dialects are derivations from.
  • I'm left wondering which dialect of English has 'homour' rather than 'humour' or 'humor'.

    Tartare sauce is for use with fish. It may go with other things but it makes the Baby Jesus cry.
    :naughty: Tangent:
    What is wrong with making Baby Jesus cry? I don't recall anything about Jesus crying ever.
    /Tangent

    'Jesus wept.'

    It's in John's Gospel. When he receives the news that Lazarus is dead. Shortest verse in the NT and, sadly, sometimes used as an expletive here in the UK.

    But clearly not in Canada.

    'It makes the Baby Jesus cry' is something of a stock phrase here aboard Ship and I suspect has RC origins.

    I can't remember who used it first.

    Meanwhile, the originator of another stock and highly useful phrase, 'Is outrage', is here in our midst - the Blessed Mousethief who can surely be forgiven for his indiscretions with Tartare Sauce (sp?) on account of it.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited July 2021
    I think Making the Baby Jesus Cry was originally a Rod or Tod comment from the Simpsons.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I'm left wondering which dialect of English has 'homour' rather than 'humour' or 'humor'.

    Tartare sauce is for use with fish. It may go with other things but it makes the Baby Jesus cry.
    :naughty: Tangent:
    What is wrong with making Baby Jesus cry? I don't recall anything about Jesus crying ever.
    /Tangent

    Jesus wept.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Let me listen to someone and I can tell you if they're from Boston or not. Big deal. Doesn't make Bostonian some kind of master dialect that all other dialects are derivations from.

    No suggestion that other dialects derive from SE. Why would they? It's a master dialect only in the sociological sense, it's posh.
  • orfeo wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Why not just say 'free'?

    Because some people's dialects use a preposition. I can't see what's so terrible. Perhaps in their dialects "free" can't be used adverbally so needs the "for" to create an adverbial phrase.

    Also, a lot of these things work by analogy, thus, for nothing, for a lot of money, etc., may influence for free. But as you say, dialects differ from standard English.

    I think the point of this thread is to show that there is no such thing as Standard English! Even if English was only spoken in England, 'standard' would only be defined by a (self-appointed) authority's choice, not by one version being the root of all the others. No 'Academie Anglaise', no standard version of the language.

    Well, it's true that no form of English is prescribed centrally, but Standard English is unique in being a class dialect, not a geographic one. Most middle class and upper middle class people in England use it. Its accent is Received Pronunciation, although you do get SE with regional accents, and also conservative RP, rapidly disappearing.

    There is a straightforward test, show me a video of an English speaker, and in 5 minutes I will tell you if they are using SE.

    Well it is a geographic one as well, actually, at least in its origins. 'Standard' English is fairly heavily based on what was going on around London.

    I thought that this was quite controversial. When I were a stripling, it was said that East Midlands dialects coalesced into SE, but then this was argued against. But it spread across England, and also into Scotland.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    'The cattle are lowing, the baby awakes,
    But little Lord Jesus no crying he makes'.
    Sorry, but if a new-born baby doesn't cry, it's probably dead.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Back to 'for free': the time-honoured phrase used to be @Free, gratis and for nothing'.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Don't know what happened there: "Free, gratis and for nothing".
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    I'm left wondering which dialect of English has 'homour' rather than 'humour' or 'humor'.

    Tartare sauce is for use with fish. It may go with other things but it makes the Baby Jesus cry.
    :naughty: Tangent:
    What is wrong with making Baby Jesus cry? I don't recall anything about Jesus crying ever.
    /Tangent

    'Jesus wept.'

    It's in John's Gospel. When he receives the news that Lazarus is dead. Shortest verse in the NT and, sadly, sometimes used as an expletive here in the UK.

    But clearly not in Canada.

    'It makes the Baby Jesus cry' is something of a stock phrase here aboard Ship and I suspect has RC origins.

    I can't remember who used it first.

    Meanwhile, the originator of another stock and highly useful phrase, 'Is outrage', is here in our midst - the Blessed Mousethief who can surely be forgiven for his indiscretions with Tartare Sauce (sp?) on account of it.


    I am a Canadian who uses "Jesus wept" as an expletive with regularity.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    Back to 'for free': the time-honoured phrase used to be ‘Free, gratis and for nothing'.
    I have no idea where that phrase was time-honored, but your post is my first encounter with it. Quite redundant, it seems.

    I have no problem at all with “for free.”

  • Thanks to everyone who pointed out my ignorance. of "Jesus wept". (I'm wondering if this was real tears or performative. He could do anything he wanted if he was god. I always wondered why he didn't fly like Superman.)
    Eirenist wrote: »
    'The cattle are lowing, the baby awakes,
    But little Lord Jesus no crying he makes'.
    Sorry, but if a new-born baby doesn't cry, it's probably dead.

    But he would have been able to really play dead right?
  • Thanks to everyone who pointed out my ignorance. of "Jesus wept". (I'm wondering if this was real tears or performative. He could do anything he wanted if he was god. I always wondered why he didn't fly like Superman.)
    Because he was also fully human, and humans can’t fly?

  • Gill H wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Why not just say 'free'?

    Because some people's dialects use a preposition. I can't see what's so terrible. Perhaps in their dialects "free" can't be used adverbally so needs the "for" to create an adverbial phrase.

    Also, a lot of these things work by analogy, thus, for nothing, for a lot of money, etc., may influence for free. But as you say, dialects differ from standard English.

    Or because Dire Straits would have to pay for their chicks.

    I realized that song used to have the line, "see the little faggot with the ear-ring and the make-up, yeah buddy, that's his own hair".
  • edited July 2021
    And here I thought the line was "cheques for free". As in not working.

    The use of the word "faggot" reminds me of people using the word "gay" to describe something they want to denigrate. Neither being appropriate. I also didn't pick up on that piece of lyric. We used to sing this to students at skits nights when I was university teaching: "I want my PhD": "look at them profs, that's the way you do it, working those students, get your grants for free", etc.
  • I have heard the phrase free and gratis, but not for decades, in that I'm pretty sure that I last heard my grandmother use it, and as she was born in 1913, died 1999, it's not a particularly modern phrase. I suspect that it was a slogan from some Interwar comedian.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    In Welsh we say rhad ac yn ddim, which means "cheap and for nothing".
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Let me listen to someone and I can tell you if they're from Boston or not. Big deal. Doesn't make Bostonian some kind of master dialect that all other dialects are derivations from.

    No suggestion that other dialects derive from SE. Why would they? It's a master dialect only in the sociological sense, it's posh.

    True I should have said deviation not derivation.
  • "complementary" is common here for free stuff, as in complementary coffee.
  • "complementary" is common here for free stuff, as in complementary coffee.
    Here (American South) as well. And things that are free/complementary are often referred to as “freebies.”

  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited July 2021
    [Pedant ON] "complimentary." [Pedant OFF]
  • I never could spell good.
  • TrudyTrudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    edited July 2021
    [Pedant ON] "complimentary." [Pedant OFF]

    Until this exact moment in my long life as a reader, writer, and English teacher, I honestly thought that "complementary" was the form of that word that meant things were free. Had to look it up to be sure you weren't playing with our minds, but I have learned something today.

    "I instead of E, if the coffee is free."
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    In Welsh we say rhad ac yn ddim, which means "cheap and for nothing".

    'Rhad' also means 'free', presumably cognate with 'rhydd' - so we're back to 'free and for nothing' yn Gymraeg, hefyd.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    I struggle with the difference. My general rule of thumb is that if it completes something it is complementary. If it’s being nice to someone it is complimentary.
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