Not a good time for the Conservative government in the UK

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  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    It gets weirder: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68841840

    Meanwhile rumour has it that Angela Raynor put her bin out two minutes before midnight on Tuesday for the Wednesday collection, but council by-laws say it can only be out on the day of collection. The depravity!
    But because Ms Raynor is working class, Sir Keir thinks she should not be investigated ( PMQs 17/4)
  • CameronCameron Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    It gets weirder: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68841840

    Meanwhile rumour has it that Angela Raynor put her bin out two minutes before midnight on Tuesday for the Wednesday collection, but council by-laws say it can only be out on the day of collection. The depravity!
    But because Ms Raynor is working class, Sir Keir thinks she should not be investigated ( PMQs 17/4)

    I think the bad jokes thread is elsewhere.

    Anyway, because he has no working class friends (per the documentary of his educational experience), Mr Sunak would be unlikely to be sympathetic to working class people.

    When it comes to seemingly clear cases of crime: Mr Sunak’s party certainly does not think it necessary to report blackmail and fraudulent misuse of funds to the police, which you would think would be an unambiguous signal for an investigation.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    Telford wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    It gets weirder: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68841840

    Meanwhile rumour has it that Angela Raynor put her bin out two minutes before midnight on Tuesday for the Wednesday collection, but council by-laws say it can only be out on the day of collection. The depravity!
    But because Ms Raynor is working class, Sir Keir thinks she should not be investigated ( PMQs 17/4)

    I've read the transcript. He said no such thing, you mendacious toad.
  • Remember - don't feed the troll. Hopefully he will go away eventually.

    As I hope all the other Tories will.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Being working class hasn’t stopped Starmer getting rid of people he doesn’t want to be in the party.
    Will the local elections lead to a general election call or not. Some think Rishi will call the general when the India deal is sorted and his father-in-laws company get a lot of money.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    edited April 2024
    Hugal wrote: »
    Being working class hasn’t stopped Starmer getting rid of people he doesn’t want to be in the party.
    Will the local elections lead to a general election call or not. Some think Rishi will call the general when the India deal is sorted and his father-in-laws company get a lot of money.

    When is that likely to be?

    Today’s speech about benefits spending - dog whistle? There really is no point in starting the lengthy process when they’ll be out on their collective ear by November.

    There are many scroungers to be found in the U.K., all earn over £300 grand a year, usually well over. Deal with them.

  • It's quite sad to see how the tories are desperately trying to cling on to power, with policies that are more deranged than ever.

    As @Boogie says, their time is almost over, for which relief, much thanks.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    It gets weirder: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68841840

    Meanwhile rumour has it that Angela Raynor put her bin out two minutes before midnight on Tuesday for the Wednesday collection, but council by-laws say it can only be out on the day of collection. The depravity!
    But because Ms Raynor is working class, Sir Keir thinks she should not be investigated ( PMQs 17/4)

    I've read the transcript. He said no such thing, you mendacious toad.
    He accused he Prime Minister of picking on a working class woman,


  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    Telford wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    It gets weirder: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68841840

    Meanwhile rumour has it that Angela Raynor put her bin out two minutes before midnight on Tuesday for the Wednesday collection, but council by-laws say it can only be out on the day of collection. The depravity!
    But because Ms Raynor is working class, Sir Keir thinks she should not be investigated ( PMQs 17/4)

    I've read the transcript. He said no such thing, you mendacious toad.
    He accused he Prime Minister of picking on a working class woman,


    No he didn't. He drew attention to the hypocrisy of multi-millionaires running all sorts of tax dodges trying to find mud to sling at Rayner over alleged sums thousands of times smaller than what they manage to avoid.

    Where class comes into that these privileged uber-rich cannot cope with an ordinary working class woman who's been successful and not turned Tory. They much prefer the "self made man/woman" who loudly dismisses anyone less successful then themselves through the "If I managed it you could have" fallacy.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Closely related to the "I got a job in the police with an excellent pension scheme, every else could have" fallacy.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Closely related to the "I got a job in the police with an excellent pension scheme, every else could have" fallacy.

    Well, I didn't want to draw the comparison, but yes.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Closely related to the "I got a job in the police with an excellent pension scheme, every else could have" fallacy.

    Well, I didn't want to draw the comparison, but yes.

    🤣🙇‍♂️
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Could we please lay off Telford for a bit. Thisis getting one=sided, and boring.
  • Indeed, I prefer Ian Hislop's take on the Rayner issue.

    'Angela Rayner may have fiddled up to £1,500 on her council tax, says book published by Lord Ashcroft who avoided £112 million when he was a nom-dom.'

    There. Nothing like a bit of context to set things right!
  • Anselmina wrote: »
    Indeed, I prefer Ian Hislop's take on the Rayner issue.

    'Angela Rayner may have fiddled up to £1,500 on her council tax, says book published by Lord Ashcroft who avoided £112 million when he was a nom-dom.'

    There. Nothing like a bit of context to set things right!

    Yes, a reminder that those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, as the old adage saith...

    Yet another desperate and futile attempt by the egregious tories to do as much damage as possible before The End.

  • And now The Menzies Affair has been referred to the police for investigation - more Woes for Wishi-Washi:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/lancashire-police-reviewing-letter-relating-to-allegations-against-mark-menzies
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Could we please lay off Telford for a bit. Thisis getting one=sided, and boring.
    Your kindness will not be forgotten
  • CameronCameron Shipmate
    And now The Menzies Affair has been referred to the police for investigation - more Woes for Wishi-Washi:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/lancashire-police-reviewing-letter-relating-to-allegations-against-mark-menzies

    The account from a 78-year old party activist, who was phoned at 3:15am by Mr Menzies - to find £5000 for ‘bad people’ - was astonishing. It’s possibly the only time in my life I will find myself feeling sorry for a Tory activist!

    It will be interesting to see how the investigation progresses…
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    Cameron wrote: »
    And now The Menzies Affair has been referred to the police for investigation - more Woes for Wishi-Washi:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/lancashire-police-reviewing-letter-relating-to-allegations-against-mark-menzies

    The account from a 78-year old party activist, who was phoned at 3:15am by Mr Menzies - to find £5000 for ‘bad people’ - was astonishing. It’s possibly the only time in my life I will find myself feeling sorry for a Tory activist!

    It will be interesting to see how the investigation progresses…

    The lady in question understandably feels bitter and resentful at the way she was treated. I wonder if she'll do the sensible thing, and leave the tories to their well-deserved Doom?
  • The desperate, inhuman bullshit spewed by Sunak yesterday proves that his remaining supporters are desperate, inhuman shit.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    The desperate, inhuman bullshit spewed by Sunak yesterday proves that his remaining supporters are desperate, inhuman shit.
    Care to tell us what you are on about ?
  • ThunderBunkThunderBunk Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    in case you have been living under a rock:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/sunak-disability-benefit-curbs-sicknote-culture-pip

    There is no evidence that anything he is saying is more than a dogwhistle for the terminally smug and comfortable.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    in case you have been living under a rock:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/sunak-disability-benefit-curbs-sicknote-culture-pip

    There is no evidence that anything he is saying is more than a dogwhistle for the terminally smug and comfortable.

    I have not been living under a rock. It's merely a consultation to try and reduce the massive benefits bill. which will become a problem for a Labour government later this year.
  • Telford wrote: »
    in case you have been living under a rock:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/sunak-disability-benefit-curbs-sicknote-culture-pip

    There is no evidence that anything he is saying is more than a dogwhistle for the terminally smug and comfortable.

    I have not been living under a rock. It's merely a consultation to try and reduce the massive benefits bill. which will become a problem for a Labour government later this year.

    No it's not.
    That may be what they want to pretend it is, but it's not.
    It's demonising rhetoric aimed at the most vulnerable.

    AFZ
  • The desperate, inhuman bullshit spewed by Sunak yesterday proves that his remaining supporters are desperate, inhuman shit.

    There we are then
  • CameronCameron Shipmate
    If people are too sick to work, the answer is not to make sure that they are “assessed” by a process designed with less medical expertise and compassion so that, presumably, they either struggle in work due to incapacity (before being fired) or starve.

    The proper answer would be for Mr Sunak to fix the NHS so that they have some decent chance of recovery.
  • I saw one of the interviews, where Sunak announced his barbaric revision of sickness benefits. It was bizarre really, as he looked sort of haggard and desperate, and I reckon he is placating the right wing. Or maybe they are just flailing around, hoping something turns up, to cut the Tory deficit. The end of governments is not pretty, although it's hard not to look.
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    I fear something similar is going to happen here in NZ under the coalition government. I have a vulnerable young relative who would be on the receiving end of such "assistance," provided on the cheap by people whose job it is to force people into untenable positions. I worry for him and for others who will be similarly affected.
  • Sunak also had a go at people suffering from anxiety and depression. It's customary for right wingers to denounce these as fake, based on no expertise at all. I suppose they are aiming at Joe Bloggs, who thinks anxiety is just a way of skiving on the state. Be a man, your depression is a fantasy, get a job stacking shelves, those are British values!
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    @quetzalcoatl -For some reason your post reminds me of a verse by Spike Milligan.

    "There are fascists pretending to be humanitarians,
    like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians."


    I realise that sounds flippant, but I am seriously concerned that the youth suicide rate here could increase in response to this kind of thinking.
  • These Tories would fit well into the 16th Century, helping Richard Topcliffe to persecute Catholics.

    (I recommend a read-up on Topcliffe. People go on about Oliver Cromwell being a bigot - he was a model of tolerance compared to Topcliffe. And Topcliffe was high in the favour of that paragon, Elizabeth I.)
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Hadn't the Pope released Catholics from allegiance to her, rendering every Catholic a traitor? Slightly unwise, perhaps.
  • The desperate, inhuman bullshit spewed by Sunak yesterday proves that his remaining supporters are desperate, inhuman shit.

    Here's a bit more inhuman tory bullshit:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/21/help-disabled-people-england-wales-jobs-axed-benefits-crackdown

    No doubt the smug and comfortable members of the FUJIAR party will welcome this move - after all, disabled people are just evil skivers, aren't they?
  • Huia wrote: »
    @quetzalcoatl -For some reason your post reminds me of a verse by Spike Milligan.

    "There are fascists pretending to be humanitarians,
    like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians."


    I realise that sounds flippant, but I am seriously concerned that the youth suicide rate here could increase in response to this kind of thinking.

    Yes, agree. Hopefully, the Tories will be gone soon. Although, Labour are showing signs of leaning that way.
  • Huia wrote: »
    @quetzalcoatl -For some reason your post reminds me of a verse by Spike Milligan.

    "There are fascists pretending to be humanitarians,
    like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians."


    I realise that sounds flippant, but I am seriously concerned that the youth suicide rate here could increase in response to this kind of thinking.

    Yes, agree. Hopefully, the Tories will be gone soon. Although, Labour are showing signs of leaning that way.

    Yeah, arguably Sunak just went in the direction both Kendall and Reeves have previously indicated, remember that Labour initially introduced workplace capability assessments and pressed ahead with them even when problems were found during the trial.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Telford wrote: »
    I have not been living under a rock. It's merely a consultation to try and reduce the massive benefits bill. which will become a problem for a Labour government later this year.
    Sadly people on benefits are not going to stop needing the money just because the bill is massive.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited April 2024
    Quite. The Labour government might well at least try to do their best, under difficult and challenging circumstance, to ensure that the most needy are given priority.

    The tories wouldn't - all those crying out piteously for freebies benefits are idle scroungers, eschewing True British Values™...

    Mind you, it appears that attacking pensions (watch out, FUJIARs! they could be about to invade your comfort zone!) may not be the wisest thing the tories have ever done:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/20/labour-target-tory-over-65s-poll-pension-cuts-jeremy-hunt-tax-blunder
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Eirenist wrote: »
    Hadn't the Pope released Catholics from allegiance to her, rendering every Catholic a traitor? Slightly unwise, perhaps.

    100% agree.
  • Huia wrote: »
    @quetzalcoatl -For some reason your post reminds me of a verse by Spike Milligan.

    "There are fascists pretending to be humanitarians,
    like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians."


    Roger McGough wrote this rather than Spike. But agree with you this is desperate stuff from the Tories which may well have tragic real world consequences.

    Sunak needs to face up to the fact he's going to lose and stop doing harm.
  • Huia wrote: »
    @quetzalcoatl -For some reason your post reminds me of a verse by Spike Milligan.

    "There are fascists pretending to be humanitarians,
    like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians."


    Roger McGough wrote this rather than Spike. But agree with you this is desperate stuff from the Tories which may well have tragic real world consequences.

    Sunak needs to face up to the fact he's going to lose and stop doing harm.

    I suspect that Wishi-Washi is merely a puppet, with his strings being pulled by the neo-fascists. He is, alas! too weak and feeble to do anything about this...
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Getting at the disabled metal or physical is not new for the Cons. Remember the ATOS miracles. How many people who were deemed fit for work died not long after? How many people pushed to the complaints section and had the judgment over turned when they saw actual medical people who knew what they were talking about? What next dyslexics like me being told to pull their socks up and concentrate? Dyspraxia suffers told if they opened their eyes they wouldn’t fall over?
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Hugal wrote: »
    Getting at the disabled metal or physical is not new for the Cons. Remember the ATOS miracles. How many people who were deemed fit for work died not long after? How many people pushed to the complaints section and had the judgment over turned when they saw actual medical people who knew what they were talking about? What next dyslexics like me being told to pull their socks up and concentrate? Dyspraxia suffers told if they opened their eyes they wouldn’t fall over?

    I remember meeting a woman with one leg who had to attend annual assessments to continue getting her benefits. Presumably they were checking that she hadn't miraculously regrown the missing limb.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    The French benefits system is less performatively cruel, but we also have this kind of nonsense. A friend of mine is blind from birth (she has a very significant ocular malformation as a consequence of her Mum catching rubella while she was pregnant). Every ten years, she has to go and see (or more precisely not see) an ophthalmologist to prove that she hasn't been miraculously healed in the meantime.
  • SpikeSpike Ecclesiantics & MW Host, Admin Emeritus
    Here’s a clip from The Office where David Brent and Gareth explain how to check if “disableds” are fraudulently claiming benefit. Yes I know it’s satire, but sadly it’s now painfully close to the truth

    https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=youtube the office disabled test&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5#fpstate=ive&ip=1&vld=cid:33923af6,vid:CciZdYHvCwU,st:0&vuanr=4
  • Brilliant! As you say, not really satirical in these Evil Last Days...

    I'm disabled now, and can't walk at all without at least one stick (indoors) or two crutches (outdoors). FWIW, I also have feelings in my legs - they just don't work very well...

    I don't claim benefits, but, if I were to be subjected to the sort of checks proposed, I'd make sure I fell heavily onto an expensive computer, with my crutches flailing around, and hopefully hitting the checkers painfully around the head...
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Dafyd wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I have not been living under a rock. It's merely a consultation to try and reduce the massive benefits bill. which will become a problem for a Labour government later this year.
    Sadly people on benefits are not going to stop needing the money just because the bill is massive.

    There will always be the need for some people to be on benefits. It would appear that the government are merely saying that those capable of work should go to work.

  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    They seem to think the fact that more people are claiming sick benefits means that more people are faking: but the financial crash, cost of living crisis, NHS waiting times and the pandemic make it more plausible that in fact more people *are* in fact sick. They seem to want to wish that away.
  • It's also a signal to the right wing. Vote for us, we'll get rid of immigrants, force the sick back to work, we are well hard! But probably, many people are quite sick of this sadism.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited April 2024
    Telford wrote: »
    Dafyd wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I have not been living under a rock. It's merely a consultation to try and reduce the massive benefits bill. which will become a problem for a Labour government later this year.
    Sadly people on benefits are not going to stop needing the money just because the bill is massive.

    There will always be the need for some people to be on benefits. It would appear that the government are merely saying that those capable of work should go to work.

    Their absolutely killer argument, so great that it merits inclusion in their statement to the FT as evidence of the 'sick note culture' is the following:

    "More commonly referred to as “sick notes”, the number issued by GPs has increased significantly over the past few years, from 8.7mn in the 12 months to March 2021 to 11mn in the equivalent period to March 2023, according to NHS data."

    2021 and 2023 .. I wonder if something else might have been going on between that time that might have increased the number of sick notes being issued by GPs?

  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Why are they so moronically fucking stupid ?
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