Yes, ministers who are abroad are called back, leave for civil servants cancelled, etc., so everybody and their dog has got their panties up the flagpole. Let's hope so, time to get this shower out.
Those aren't panties ! Those are Union Flags, which all True-Blue Englishmen™ should hold sacred!
As to the General Election, Wishi-Washi may well be waiting for the first convict plane to be flown to the penal settlement in Africa, at which point he can say that he has *delivered* what The Will Of The People™ has required him to do...
Signs Westminster only thinks about England: Scottish schools will already have broken up and many people will have holidays booked.
would be a bit of a scramble but there is time to sort a postal vote (I think) - I appreciate that's not really good enough, and neither am I remotely defending any such decision - but it's not actually disenfranchisement I suppose. Neither does that address people who might want to campaign rather than just vote.
However, given the current state of public opinion, I think most people will probably be fairly happy to Get It Over With whether they've got a holiday booked or not.
O thank Cthulhu - at last! Time to put the country out of its misery...
🐙
I guess we may end up with another shower in power, but at least it'll be a less repulsive shower...
Now for six weeks of unbroken misery, as the tories make a last-ditch stand, trying to persuade us that only They can deliver the Unicorns, Sunlit Uplands, Bulgar Wheat, Venezuelan Beaver Cheese, and so on - all those good things the Hard-Working British Family™ deserves.
Getting a convict plane to Rwanda before the Election is unlikely, I think (and hope), given the many legal challenges that will arise. Unless, that is, the evil tories have already sent one, without anybody noticing.
O thank Cthulhu - at last! Time to put the country out of its misery...
🐙
I guess we may end up with another shower in power, but at least it'll be a less repulsive shower...
Now for six weeks of unbroken misery, as the tories make a last-ditch stand, trying to persuade us that only They can deliver the Unicorns, Sunlit Uplands, Bulgar Wheat, Venezuelan Beaver Cheese, and so on - all those good things the Hard-Working British Family™ deserves.
Getting a convict plane to Rwanda before the Election is unlikely, I think (and hope), given the many legal challenges that will arise. Unless, that is, the evil tories have already sent one, without anybody noticing.
Surprised he's gone so early, presumably he thinks the economy is improving. Some journos think he's thrown in the towel Dunno.
I think what might have happened is that they put a few feelers out after the inflation figures were announced. Then when he refused to rule it out that started a stampede of letters, at which point the choice was to call the election or face a leadership contest.
So did I. There are reports of *No Confidence* letters already, though quite what the authors of those letters think they might achieve is open to question. Wishi-Washi may well have been caught between a rock and a hard place.
I may be misremembering (in my own case it was over 40 years ago, and when I was issuing them at the University of Ulster, over 20), but don't student ID cards have your date of birth so that you can use them to get served in pubs?
I do think it's very cynical of the Govt to permit senior bus-passes (mine has only photo and name - no DOB) but not young people's ones - pure gerrymandering.
Signs Westminster only thinks about England: Scottish schools will already have broken up and many people will have holidays booked.
would be a bit of a scramble but there is time to sort a postal vote (I think)
Yes, in theory there's time to organise a postal vote, the cut off for registering for a postal ballot will be during the short campaign (from memory, about 2 weeks before the polling day). Remember you need to register for a postal ballot early enough for it to get to you before you leave for holiday, and probably a very good idea to post it before you leave (especially if going abroad).
If for the sake of argument we assume that there is impersonation fraud at polling stations, then the question is "what level of id is required to prevent this?" Does it just need a name and photo? Or, does it also need the address of the voter to stop someone of the same name impersonating the voter?
If (for the sake of the same argument) this were true, then you'd want the workers at the polling station to be able to identify or confirm the identity card as authentic. After all, anyone can print up a plastic badge with a photo, a name, and a bunch of random numbers.
"Everybody" is familiar with the look and feel of a UK passport and driving licence. What should a poll worker do if I present them with a photo of my grinning face on a plastic card bearing the name and logo of East Chelmsford University, asserting that I am one Alan B'Stard, a student in their Department of Political Science?
We agree that this is a silly argument about a non-problem, but if you accept the premise, then it's hard not to argue that the set of acceptable forms of id should be short and robust.
Signs Westminster only thinks about England: Scottish schools will already have broken up and many people will have holidays booked.
Many English public schools will also have broken up, and those form the natural territory of the Tory party. English state schools will still be open, but the public schools generally run shorter terms.
I may be misremembering (in my own case it was over 40 years ago, and when I was issuing them at the University of Ulster, over 20), but don't student ID cards have your date of birth so that you can use them to get served in pubs?
I do think it's very cynical of the Govt to permit senior bus-passes (mine has only photo and name - no DOB) but not young people's ones - pure gerrymandering.
But they will be permitted regardless as to how the holder votes.
But they will be permitted regardless as to how the holder votes.
If the government believes that a majority of older people will vote for it, but a majority of younger people will not vote for it, then any measure that makes it easy for old people to vote and hard for young people to vote will benefit the government.
But they will be permitted regardless as to how the holder votes.
If the government believes that a majority of older people will vote for it, but a majority of younger people will not vote for it, then any measure that makes it easy for old people to vote and hard for young people to vote will benefit the government.
Why are older people more likely to vote Conservative ?
But they will be permitted regardless as to how the holder votes.
If the government believes that a majority of older people will vote for it, but a majority of younger people will not vote for it, then any measure that makes it easy for old people to vote and hard for young people to vote will benefit the government.
Why are older people more likely to vote Conservative ?
Do we need to know why, when it is a statistical fact?
The point is that a pensioner’s bus pass is no more secure than a student ID card, yet magically acceptable as ID; whereas the form of ID for young voters that statistically vote Labour is somehow unacceptable.
One could add that the serving military staff, ceteris paribus, also fall into the age groups statistically more likely to vote Labour - and so it is no surprise that their military ID was also excluded at the local elections. I would not be surprised if that’s not sorted in time for the general election either…
But you may have been atypical. My amiable spouse acquired his first passport at 37 and at nearly 72 has never had a driver’s license; atypical for his background & profession.
"Everybody" is familiar with the look and feel of a UK passport and driving licence. What should a poll worker do if I present them with a photo of my grinning face on a plastic card bearing the name and logo of East Chelmsford University, asserting that I am one Alan B'Stard, a student in their Department of Political Science?
We agree that this is a silly argument about a non-problem, but if you accept the premise, then it's hard not to argue that the set of acceptable forms of id should be short and robust.
If you want to argue that it has to be short to be robust, then by that standard the present system isn't robust. Do you know what a Northern Irish Electoral ID Card looks like? How about a Maltese National ID Card? What about a biometric residence permit? War Disablement Pass (issued in Northern Ireland) ? Anonymous Elector's Document? Defence ID Card? National Entitlement Card?
There's no reason why an NUS Card (as opposed to the access card issued by individual universities and colleges to get into their buildings) couldn't be added to that list.
Many ID cards not on the list would be acceptable as proof of age. The solution would be to hire some hospitality staff for the day to check ID, they'd be familiar with all those forms of ID. As hospitality staff are generally underpaid, a few hours extra work would be welcome (though, they'll probably object to the full 15h+ shift the election staff have to manage).
One could add that the serving military staff, ceteris paribus, also fall into the age groups statistically more likely to vote Labour - and so it is no surprise that their military ID was also excluded at the local elections. I would not be surprised if that’s not sorted in time for the general election either…
which is barking mad given that your MOD90 (military ID card) is what gets you in and out of razor wire fences guarded by people with assault rifles at UK bases all over the world. So accessing a village hall to be allowed to put a X on a bit of paper is clearly a whole other level of clearance...
OTOH, I wouldn't like to speculate how the armed forces (en bloc) vote. 20 years ago the officer corps was always a bit more Labour than I would have expected, the other ranks a fair spread, but probably slightly tending right. You'd also get communists, fascists and every other point on the compass in there though as you would anywhere.
I'd have been confident that a Tory government actively seeking to gerrymander might have expected to pick up more votes than they lost by putting the armed forces inside the tent though, which makes me think the whole thing, once again, is more in the realms of cock-up/incompetence rather than conspiracy.
ETA - though I note from the list that a MOD90 was indeed on it - so not sure why it's being suggested that they weren't....?
But they will be permitted regardless as to how the holder votes.
If the government believes that a majority of older people will vote for it, but a majority of younger people will not vote for it, then any measure that makes it easy for old people to vote and hard for young people to vote will benefit the government.
Why are older people more likely to vote Conservative ?
The theory is that they are likely to own their own home with no mortgage. They are settled and don’t want things to change much. They may have a pension linked to the stock market. The Cons have been seen as the party of business.
Things are changing though and people of my generation (Gen X) are not automatically doing this. Certainly those younger than me are not happy with the Cons
ETA - though I note from the list that a MOD90 was indeed on it - so not sure why it's being suggested that they weren't....?
I think there's some confusion between the MOD90 (which is on the list) and the newly introduced (ish) Veterans ID card (which isn't).
yes, the Veterans Card has some useful discounts*, but it's proof of entitlement I suppose, rather than proof of ID
*I'm currently navigating the kafkaesque bureaucracy of trying to get one. The big stumbling block is where it asks for your discharge certificate - which officers, certainly in my era, were not issued.
The seem to have no problem agreeing that I served, but I can't prove to their satisfaction that I left...
Presumably they aren't inclined to arrest you on the spot for being AWOL all these years?
that happens more often than you might think actually... it's a bit like being pulled over for speeding, when it's purely an admin error* how you present yourself and your attitude with the guardroom is the difference between being made a cup of tea, and spending 24 hours in the cells - which is embarrassing when you've got your wife and children outside with the car running...
Maybe the Veterans ID card is conditional on having not been kicked out of the forces for misbehaviour, in which case they’d need to know not so much if you’ve left but the manner in which you did so?
Maybe the Veterans ID card is conditional on having not been kicked out of the forces for misbehaviour, in which case they’d need to know not so much if you’ve left but the manner in which you did so?
Pure speculation on my part.
I think it's much more like the old joke about joint services things - 'Joint - spelled A.R.M.Y.' - the army is so much bigger than the other two that it dominates.
So here I reckon they thought they'd got a system that worked because it worked for most people - ex army non-officers. It's only now that people are raising objections like 'I'm an ex-naval officer and we aren't/weren't issued discharge certificates, because that's not how the navy works/worked.'
But they will be permitted regardless as to how the holder votes.
If the government believes that a majority of older people will vote for it, but a majority of younger people will not vote for it, then any measure that makes it easy for old people to vote and hard for young people to vote will benefit the government.
Why are older people more likely to vote Conservative ?
The theory is that they are likely to own their own home with no mortgage. They are settled and don’t want things to change much. They may have a pension linked to the stock market. The Cons have been seen as the party of business.
Things are changing though and people of my generation (Gen X) are not automatically doing this. Certainly those younger than me are not happy with the Cons
Thanks for that. Good answer. However I still want to know who is telling people how I voted.
Comments
As to the General Election, Wishi-Washi may well be waiting for the first convict plane to be flown to the penal settlement in Africa, at which point he can say that he has *delivered* what The Will Of The People™ has required him to do...
would be a bit of a scramble but there is time to sort a postal vote (I think) - I appreciate that's not really good enough, and neither am I remotely defending any such decision - but it's not actually disenfranchisement I suppose. Neither does that address people who might want to campaign rather than just vote.
However, given the current state of public opinion, I think most people will probably be fairly happy to Get It Over With whether they've got a holiday booked or not.
Or they know that perfectly well and also know that most Scots have more sense than vote Tory.
Excellent hair spray. I was hoping for his hair to flop all over his face. Sadly no.
🐙
I guess we may end up with another shower in power, but at least it'll be a less repulsive shower...
Now for six weeks of unbroken misery, as the tories make a last-ditch stand, trying to persuade us that only They can deliver the Unicorns, Sunlit Uplands, Bulgar Wheat, Venezuelan Beaver Cheese, and so on - all those good things the Hard-Working British Family™ deserves.
Getting a convict plane to Rwanda before the Election is unlikely, I think (and hope), given the many legal challenges that will arise. Unless, that is, the evil tories have already sent one, without anybody noticing.
Rishi already started doing that
I think what might have happened is that they put a few feelers out after the inflation figures were announced. Then when he refused to rule it out that started a stampede of letters, at which point the choice was to call the election or face a leadership contest.
So did I. There are reports of *No Confidence* letters already, though quite what the authors of those letters think they might achieve is open to question. Wishi-Washi may well have been caught between a rock and a hard place.
I do think it's very cynical of the Govt to permit senior bus-passes (mine has only photo and name - no DOB) but not young people's ones - pure gerrymandering.
If (for the sake of the same argument) this were true, then you'd want the workers at the polling station to be able to identify or confirm the identity card as authentic. After all, anyone can print up a plastic badge with a photo, a name, and a bunch of random numbers.
"Everybody" is familiar with the look and feel of a UK passport and driving licence. What should a poll worker do if I present them with a photo of my grinning face on a plastic card bearing the name and logo of East Chelmsford University, asserting that I am one Alan B'Stard, a student in their Department of Political Science?
We agree that this is a silly argument about a non-problem, but if you accept the premise, then it's hard not to argue that the set of acceptable forms of id should be short and robust.
Many English public schools will also have broken up, and those form the natural territory of the Tory party. English state schools will still be open, but the public schools generally run shorter terms.
If the government believes that a majority of older people will vote for it, but a majority of younger people will not vote for it, then any measure that makes it easy for old people to vote and hard for young people to vote will benefit the government.
Why are older people more likely to vote Conservative ?
Do we need to know why, when it is a statistical fact?
The point is that a pensioner’s bus pass is no more secure than a student ID card, yet magically acceptable as ID; whereas the form of ID for young voters that statistically vote Labour is somehow unacceptable.
One could add that the serving military staff, ceteris paribus, also fall into the age groups statistically more likely to vote Labour - and so it is no surprise that their military ID was also excluded at the local elections. I would not be surprised if that’s not sorted in time for the general election either…
For many years in my early adulthood I had neither and I wasn't particularly poor.
If you want to argue that it has to be short to be robust, then by that standard the present system isn't robust. Do you know what a Northern Irish Electoral ID Card looks like? How about a Maltese National ID Card? What about a biometric residence permit? War Disablement Pass (issued in Northern Ireland) ? Anonymous Elector's Document? Defence ID Card? National Entitlement Card?
Here's the full list:
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/running-electoral-registration-wales/voter-authority-certificates-and-anonymous-electors-documents
There's no reason why an NUS Card (as opposed to the access card issued by individual universities and colleges to get into their buildings) couldn't be added to that list.
which is barking mad given that your MOD90 (military ID card) is what gets you in and out of razor wire fences guarded by people with assault rifles at UK bases all over the world. So accessing a village hall to be allowed to put a X on a bit of paper is clearly a whole other level of clearance...
OTOH, I wouldn't like to speculate how the armed forces (en bloc) vote. 20 years ago the officer corps was always a bit more Labour than I would have expected, the other ranks a fair spread, but probably slightly tending right. You'd also get communists, fascists and every other point on the compass in there though as you would anywhere.
I'd have been confident that a Tory government actively seeking to gerrymander might have expected to pick up more votes than they lost by putting the armed forces inside the tent though, which makes me think the whole thing, once again, is more in the realms of cock-up/incompetence rather than conspiracy.
ETA - though I note from the list that a MOD90 was indeed on it - so not sure why it's being suggested that they weren't....?
The theory is that they are likely to own their own home with no mortgage. They are settled and don’t want things to change much. They may have a pension linked to the stock market. The Cons have been seen as the party of business.
Things are changing though and people of my generation (Gen X) are not automatically doing this. Certainly those younger than me are not happy with the Cons
I think there's some confusion between the MOD90 (which is on the list) and the newly introduced (ish) Veterans ID card (which isn't).
yes, the Veterans Card has some useful discounts*, but it's proof of entitlement I suppose, rather than proof of ID
*I'm currently navigating the kafkaesque bureaucracy of trying to get one. The big stumbling block is where it asks for your discharge certificate - which officers, certainly in my era, were not issued.
The seem to have no problem agreeing that I served, but I can't prove to their satisfaction that I left...
Well, you'd have to prove your ID to get one - which also the argument used to accept the 'Oyster 60+' card, but not the normal Oyster Photo Card.
Presumably they aren't inclined to arrest you on the spot for being AWOL all these years?
that happens more often than you might think actually... it's a bit like being pulled over for speeding, when it's purely an admin error* how you present yourself and your attitude with the guardroom is the difference between being made a cup of tea, and spending 24 hours in the cells - which is embarrassing when you've got your wife and children outside with the car running...
*almost always on the MOD's side
Pure speculation on my part.
More to the point, what about backpay?
I think it's much more like the old joke about joint services things - 'Joint - spelled A.R.M.Y.' - the army is so much bigger than the other two that it dominates.
So here I reckon they thought they'd got a system that worked because it worked for most people - ex army non-officers. It's only now that people are raising objections like 'I'm an ex-naval officer and we aren't/weren't issued discharge certificates, because that's not how the navy works/worked.'
MOD: 'Oh. Didn't think of that. Oh. Er...'
Yes, apologies - it is the veteran’s card that was the issue. So even more bonkers / cock-up territory for the Tories.
Thanks for that. Good answer. However I still want to know who is telling people how I voted.
Did anyone else have 'Not enough sense to come in out of the rain' on their bingo card?
There is a press office in Number 10. It is traditional to announce an election outside, but still…
Nobody had an umbrella?
The words "rat" and "sinking ship" spring to mind.
O, so it's not all bad news, then...but yes, they know that the game is up.