I'm still amazed at the lack of social distancing, our local supermarket is a throng. I hope gradually it will change. There is talk of parties going on, eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we d-d-d don't know.
I'm still amazed at the lack of social distancing, our local supermarket is a throng. I hope gradually it will change. There is talk of parties going on, eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we d-d-d don't know.
I'm still amazed at the lack of social distancing, our local supermarket is a throng. I hope gradually it will change. There is talk of parties going on, eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we d-d-d don't know.
The supermarkets are going to have to start enforcing the distancing if anyone's going to observe it. Here you queue up outside (a metre apart) and once a certain number of people have entered, there's a strict one in - one out policy. The markets haven't closed yet but I'm expecting them to.
My normal escape is reading (and I'm so glad I've got a Kindle!). But I've reached the stage where descriptions of going to the shops, or meeting up with friends, feels odd to me. If we get Corona lit coming through the system, I hope it will feel equally odd in a few years time.
The list of Tube station closures was a bit of a 'now it feels real' moment - some on the Picadilly line we passed through on Saturday going to see the dinosaurs, and Mornington Crescent!
I'm still amazed at the lack of social distancing, our local supermarket is a throng. I hope gradually it will change. There is talk of parties going on, eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we d-d-d don't know.
Dear Partner has got a cold (just a cold ie runny nose is not corona) but right at the very end (Day 21) of my chemo cycle so I said "Get Out! Now!" and he is residing in an "independent" apartment in our kibbutz seniors' complex.
Having just got over pneumonia at the end of December (apart from the 6 month residual cough of course!) which developed ever-so rapidly from a virus caught from him right at the beginnning of my chemo cycle ie As Good As I Ever Get immunologically speaking ... I am sure not looking to repeat that when I am at my weakest point
It was just so sad - he was so discombobulated he was shoving things into an enormous Garbage Bag (I dint know we even had any of those) and I had to say to him "We do have suitcases, you know" The poor guy. Poor me. Poor everyone!
Kyrie elsison
Lord have mercy
Most important ... intercessions to/from Our Blessed Mother, St Joseph (today!) and all the Saints and Martyrs ...that the internet holds up
After 6 weeks in Wuhan where they got the infection under control, restrictions are starting to slightly loosen. Testing. Isolation if symptoms. Testing. It will be longer if control isn't established. I'm personally planning for 3 months to start.
We have free cell phone data now. WiFi has been free in many places before. No interest on overdue electric and natural gas bills. TV channels normally subscription are free. All public facilities are closed. 20 max in groups. Public Health Act invoked which means it's law. Being outside is fine. 2 metres from others. Don't talk except at distance. Car fuel is pay at the pump. Its groceries that is the weakest link. Neighbours are asked to help. No travel out of province advised.
Universities and post-sec moved online after 5 days of closure to get organized. Schools closed with some online lessons. But these are not for credit. Final exams are cancelled. Midterm marks become final.
There's 1.1 million in the province and 8 cases, with 8 more presumptive.
Hearing about elsewhere, it seems we're lucky that all the basic services are not private. Internet, electric, nat gas, cable TV, other are gov't run. Education is publicly controlled as well. Thus all the questions are answered ahead of time and can be reassuringly firmly answered. Debating things like final exams is irresponsible in my view. Creates needless anxiety.
The news heard from UK is debate and uncertainty. Coming from an out of the way place has advantages where public things are publicly controlled. I don't want to degenerate into politics but rejection of central control and what is insultingly called a nanny state fails in such situation. With the initial idea of letting a herd her sick being a clue.
The thing to remember is that in a few more days the supply chains will have restocked the shelves, and all the idiots who panic bought a year's supply won't be buying any more. By early next week there will be more than enough for the rest of us again.
If the people driving the deliveries are still healthy. A friend went to the supermarket first thing Saturday morning, and it was opening an hour late because 3 of the 7 truck drivers for the chain were sick with presumptive CV-19.
The thing to remember is that in a few more days the supply chains will have restocked the shelves, and all the idiots who panic bought a year's supply won't be buying any more. By early next week there will be more than enough for the rest of us again.
If the people driving the deliveries are still healthy. A friend went to the supermarket first thing Saturday morning, and it was opening an hour late because 3 of the 7 truck drivers for the chain were sick with presumptive CV-19.
This is where the test, test, test and contact tracing the WHO recommends must be done. Every person these delivery people have had contact with must be testing. I think the time frame is preferably in the last week. The Chinese would review all the contacted people via cell phone and location records from phones.
I'm beginning to get the creepy thought that China achieving World Domination is not too far off (if it hasn't actually happened already, but without anyone telling us).
Or (given the calibre of some of our Western leaders - let the reader understand), would that necessarily, in itself, be a Bad Thing?
Gov advice, I believe, is that we can go for lone walks, even when self-isolating, as long as we maintain distance.
Nope, not in the UK. That's for social distancing. Self-isolating means you can go in your garden but not out into the world. My patience with that will probably hold through this bout of isolation but after the second or third time my daughter gets a cough or a temperature that fades in 24 hours I suspect we may drive to a deserted beach regardless.
"You can use your garden, if you have one. You can also leave the house to exercise – but stay at least 2 metres away from other people."
I've a vague idea that it has changed, perhaps inevitably as the drama unfolds. At least the NHS has the sense to acknowledge that not everyone has a garden!
BTW some SF writers have started the Decameron Project which is posting one short story a day (each by a different author). There are three stories so far.
Here is a link to the Decameron Project for those who are interested. The great thing about being hooked up to a worldwide information network is that you can provide links to things.
Kids are highly unlikely to be tested as they have mild symptoms so they won’t be in any stats. We really don’t know the extent.
Here is a graph comparing South Korea's test results (and the South Koreans test everyone) and Italy's results (at the time Italy was only testing the symptomatic). Note that huge spike in 20-29 year olds with SARS-COV-2 infection that shows up in South Korea's results but not in Italy's. That's in part because that age range is less likely to be symptomatic or have milder symptoms, so they won't be tested under a system that only tests those exhibiting symptoms.
Here is the dilemma about testing in the United States. With the acute shortage of test kits here, the majority of those tested were negative. That means a test kit has been wasted. Moreover, it gives false hope. While a person may be negative at the time of the test, it does not mean the person may get it at a later date. I would prefer keeping the tests available to those who are symptomatic or who have been known to be exposed.
NPR yesterday said one of the reasons why test kits are slowly coming out is the tests swabs we use comes from Italy.
In the last couple of days of self-isolation, I have cleaned the living room carpet and spent the whole day yesterday cleaning the lawn. I do not think the lawn has ever had such a thorough cleaning. Today my plan is to do some house painting that I have deferred (I hate to paint).
There are several reports coming out of France about the successful use of hydroxychloroquine in treating the virus. It has yet to be approved for coronavirus, though. Here is the report from the New York Post.
With the acute shortage of test kits here, the majority of those tested were negative. That means a test kit has been wasted.
I think knowing for certain that a doctor or nurse or health visitor doesn't have the virus and therefore is not an infection risk is more useful than knowing that someone who already has pneumonia has it because of the virus.
The idea that negative results are wasted is a problem in all sorts of areas: for example the bias towards positive results in scientific research.
I'm still amazed at the lack of social distancing, our local supermarket is a throng.
I go grocery shopping tomorrow, my usual day, and frankly I'm dreading it.
I was at the laundromat this morning -- again my usual day. Only three other people there. Had a lovely chat with an older couple (keeping our distance, of course) about the current state of affairs. There was one young gentleman there who sneezed twice, but fortunately he stepped outside to do so. Needless to say, I didn't go anywhere near him! I washed my hands after touching the handles on the washer and dryer doors, and wiped the counter down with bleach before I folded my clothes on it. And washed my hands thoroughly after arriving home. I think I'll be OK.
I've been reaching out to friends and family via e-mail, confiding my fears in them, and have received some very encouraging and uplifting replies.
I'm going to Mystery Worship an on-line church service this weekend.
So Miss Amanda is keeping her sanity -- or at least she thinks she is!
With the acute shortage of test kits here, the majority of those tested were negative. That means a test kit has been wasted.
I think knowing for certain that a doctor or nurse or health visitor doesn't have the virus and therefore is not an infection risk is more useful than knowing that someone who already has pneumonia has it because of the virus.
You don't know for certain. You know that when they were tested they didn't have the virus, but you don't know that they haven't contracted it in the subsequent day or two before they got the results or the time since then.
Supermarkets opening for the over 70s hasn't gone well as this reports.
The issue is that people lack the confidence that the current system can be sustained or that the government will do what it should to sustain it. This is not helped by repeated backtracking and communication via leaking late in the news cycle.
Supermarkets opening for the over 70s hasn't gone well as this reports.
The issue is that people lack the confidence that the current system can be sustained or that the government will do what it should to sustain it. This is not helped by repeated backtracking and communication via leaking late in the news cycle.
And furthermore, UK government advice currently is that if you have symptoms you are to self isolate for 2 weeks. The government is also seeking to detain people who don't follow this advice. The lead time for a supermarket delivery seems to be around 3/4 weeks at the moment -- so its entirely rational for people to go out and try to buy a few weeks worth of food and household goods.
As I understand it: in sepsis, and apparently in the end stage of Covid, the immune system gets out of control damages everything rather than just the virus - this process is sometimes called a “cytokine storm”.
It seems this drug appears to reduce / damp down that process - in tests so far, early days yet. They are testing it because the chinese reported some good results using an older version of the drug (that has a worse side effect profile).
As I understand it: in sepsis, and apparently in the end stage of Covid, the immune system gets out of control damages everything rather than just the virus - this process is sometimes called a “cytokine storm”.
It seems this drug appears to reduce / damp down that process - in tests so far, early days yet. They are testing it because the chinese reported some good results using an older version of the drug (that has a worse side effect profile).
That's a pretty good description. Sepsis is a slippery term because doctors use it to mean various slightly different things but a more precise term is SIRS - systemic inflammatory response syndrome. Which can happen in Sepsis and also from non-infectious causes like pancreatitis. SIRS is essentially synonymous with cytokine storm.
A good way to think about it is as an overreaction of the immune system to a threat. Analogies are tricky but imagine if someone attacks you with a knife and you defend yourself by setting off a grenade. I mean, it'll stop the would-be knife attacker but you're not gonna come out of it looking pretty. That's SIRS. And the paradox in sepsis is that mortality is most often as a result SIRS. So yeah a drug that dampens the systemic inflammatory response could be really important. Surpress it too much and you leave the body at risk of overwhelming infection however.
A possibly effective treatment of the more dangerous symptoms would be good news. But I think it's a bit early to suggest (as Trump did) that this might be a game changer.
I've heard the reports about chloroquine (on Quotidien last night and this evening on France Inter). It should be noted that these are early results on a small number of patients, and much more research is needed.
Also chloroquine is used to treat other illnesses like lupus, so don't rush out and buy it or there won't be enough for people who need it (and whose conditions it is proven to be effective for).
I've heard the reports about chloroquine (on Quotidien last night and this evening on France Inter). It should be noted that these are early results on a small number of patients, and much more research is needed.
Also chloroquine is used to treat other illnesses like lupus, so don't rush out and buy it or there won't be enough for people who need it (and whose conditions it is proven to be effective for).
It may be helpful, all I know is that there was some French medical nutjob on YouTube about ten days ago vaunting its merits under the title "Coronavirus - Game Over". We can see how that's working out.
Our local community bulletin board has a request from our local Kroger that people refrain from shopping for the next few days to give the store time to restock.
It depends on where you are. It is very cheap and over the counter at a pharmacy in Mexico and points south. When I had family members living in various countries, when visiting we'd start it a week in advance and then buy it cheaper there.
FT reporting that a lockdown hasn't been implemented in London because of the possible impact on the markets:
"Given the capital’s status as a major global financial hub, Mr Johnson and Rishi Sunak, chancellor, were determined not to further alarm the markets by putting the city into lockdown."
Talked to my boss today. I was officially off for Spring Break, but the University of Idaho moved to online classes for the rest of the semester. I will not be needed until further notice. He said the University has yet to determine how to compensate temporary staff like me. I guess I will know tomorrow. I expected it. Right now I am doing alright.
The thing to remember is that in a few more days the supply chains will have restocked the shelves, and all the idiots who panic bought a year's supply won't be buying any more. By early next week there will be more than enough for the rest of us again.
If the people driving the deliveries are still healthy. A friend went to the supermarket first thing Saturday morning, and it was opening an hour late because 3 of the 7 truck drivers for the chain were sick with presumptive CV-19.
This is where the test, test, test and contact tracing the WHO recommends must be done. Every person these delivery people have had contact with must be testing. I think the time frame is preferably in the last week. The Chinese would review all the contacted people via cell phone and location records from phones.
And with our shitty government the test, test, testing isn't going to happen for many a week. Contact tracing? Fuggeddaboudit.
With the acute shortage of test kits here, the majority of those tested were negative. That means a test kit has been wasted.
I deny that the second sentence is true, or that it follows from the first. The purpose of a test is to TEST. To determine something of which one is not certain. A negative result does not invalidate that use of the test.
FT reporting that a lockdown hasn't been implemented in London because of the possible impact on the markets:
"Given the capital’s status as a major global financial hub, Mr Johnson and Rishi Sunak, chancellor, were determined not to further alarm the markets by putting the city into lockdown."
This is entirely, completely, totally irresponsible. This prioritizes the money before people. In the eventual inquiry there will be conclusions of terrible. Having disregarded the medical and statistical predictions. So wrong. So bad.
The study summary says in vitro which means in a lab test tube and not in a human body. The drug is a treatment not a preventative.
"successful use" may mean patient did not die. Which is good.
From that link,
Currently, there is no evidence to support the use of hydroxychloroquine in SARS-CoV-2 infection.
You took that statement out of context. Go to the results:
Hydroxychloroquine (EC50=0.72 μM) was found to be more potent than chloroquine (EC50=5.47 μM) in vitro. Based on PBPK models results, a loading dose of 400 mg twice daily of hydroxychloroquine sulfate given orally, followed by a maintenance dose of 200 mg given twice daily for 4 days is recommended for SARS-CoV-2 infection, as it reached three times the potency of chloroquine phosphate when given 500 mg twice daily 5 days in advance.
Comments
From Edgar Allan Poe
Yeah, I was thinking of that piece the other day too...
The supermarkets are going to have to start enforcing the distancing if anyone's going to observe it. Here you queue up outside (a metre apart) and once a certain number of people have entered, there's a strict one in - one out policy. The markets haven't closed yet but I'm expecting them to.
An alternative view is that the young are relishing the demise of old codgers. Not so much for tomorrow we die, as you, so let's party.
AFF
Having just got over pneumonia at the end of December (apart from the 6 month residual cough of course!) which developed ever-so rapidly from a virus caught from him right at the beginnning of my chemo cycle ie As Good As I Ever Get immunologically speaking ... I am sure not looking to repeat that when I am at my weakest point
It was just so sad - he was so discombobulated he was shoving things into an enormous Garbage Bag (I dint know we even had any of those) and I had to say to him "We do have suitcases, you know" The poor guy. Poor me. Poor everyone!
Kyrie elsison
Lord have mercy
Most important ... intercessions to/from Our Blessed Mother, St Joseph (today!) and all the Saints and Martyrs ...that the internet holds up
We have free cell phone data now. WiFi has been free in many places before. No interest on overdue electric and natural gas bills. TV channels normally subscription are free. All public facilities are closed. 20 max in groups. Public Health Act invoked which means it's law. Being outside is fine. 2 metres from others. Don't talk except at distance. Car fuel is pay at the pump. Its groceries that is the weakest link. Neighbours are asked to help. No travel out of province advised.
Universities and post-sec moved online after 5 days of closure to get organized. Schools closed with some online lessons. But these are not for credit. Final exams are cancelled. Midterm marks become final.
There's 1.1 million in the province and 8 cases, with 8 more presumptive.
Hearing about elsewhere, it seems we're lucky that all the basic services are not private. Internet, electric, nat gas, cable TV, other are gov't run. Education is publicly controlled as well. Thus all the questions are answered ahead of time and can be reassuringly firmly answered. Debating things like final exams is irresponsible in my view. Creates needless anxiety.
The news heard from UK is debate and uncertainty. Coming from an out of the way place has advantages where public things are publicly controlled. I don't want to degenerate into politics but rejection of central control and what is insultingly called a nanny state fails in such situation. With the initial idea of letting a herd her sick being a clue.
If the people driving the deliveries are still healthy. A friend went to the supermarket first thing Saturday morning, and it was opening an hour late because 3 of the 7 truck drivers for the chain were sick with presumptive CV-19.
This is where the test, test, test and contact tracing the WHO recommends must be done. Every person these delivery people have had contact with must be testing. I think the time frame is preferably in the last week. The Chinese would review all the contacted people via cell phone and location records from phones.
Or (given the calibre of some of our Western leaders - let the reader understand), would that necessarily, in itself, be a Bad Thing?
Thanks, I either misread it or it's changed since I last looked.
Here is a link to the Decameron Project for those who are interested. The great thing about being hooked up to a worldwide information network is that you can provide links to things.
Here is a graph comparing South Korea's test results (and the South Koreans test everyone) and Italy's results (at the time Italy was only testing the symptomatic). Note that huge spike in 20-29 year olds with SARS-COV-2 infection that shows up in South Korea's results but not in Italy's. That's in part because that age range is less likely to be symptomatic or have milder symptoms, so they won't be tested under a system that only tests those exhibiting symptoms.
NPR yesterday said one of the reasons why test kits are slowly coming out is the tests swabs we use comes from Italy.
In the last couple of days of self-isolation, I have cleaned the living room carpet and spent the whole day yesterday cleaning the lawn. I do not think the lawn has ever had such a thorough cleaning. Today my plan is to do some house painting that I have deferred (I hate to paint).
There are several reports coming out of France about the successful use of hydroxychloroquine in treating the virus. It has yet to be approved for coronavirus, though. Here is the report from the New York Post.
My mother would tell the story of how her Irish grandmother would raffle a pound of coffee on St. Patrick's Day for her friends.
The idea that negative results are wasted is a problem in all sorts of areas: for example the bias towards positive results in scientific research.
I go grocery shopping tomorrow, my usual day, and frankly I'm dreading it.
I was at the laundromat this morning -- again my usual day. Only three other people there. Had a lovely chat with an older couple (keeping our distance, of course) about the current state of affairs. There was one young gentleman there who sneezed twice, but fortunately he stepped outside to do so. Needless to say, I didn't go anywhere near him! I washed my hands after touching the handles on the washer and dryer doors, and wiped the counter down with bleach before I folded my clothes on it. And washed my hands thoroughly after arriving home. I think I'll be OK.
I've been reaching out to friends and family via e-mail, confiding my fears in them, and have received some very encouraging and uplifting replies.
I'm going to Mystery Worship an on-line church service this weekend.
So Miss Amanda is keeping her sanity -- or at least she thinks she is!
The issue is that people lack the confidence that the current system can be sustained or that the government will do what it should to sustain it. This is not helped by repeated backtracking and communication via leaking late in the news cycle.
And furthermore, UK government advice currently is that if you have symptoms you are to self isolate for 2 weeks. The government is also seeking to detain people who don't follow this advice. The lead time for a supermarket delivery seems to be around 3/4 weeks at the moment -- so its entirely rational for people to go out and try to buy a few weeks worth of food and household goods.
This is news to me.
Well, apparently so...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32150618/?from_term=hydroxychloroquine+coronavirus&from_pos=1
If it turns out to be able to nerf the cytokine storm it would presumably be useful in sepsis too.
"successful use" may mean patient did not die. Which is good.
Sounds like you are speaking Klingon 🤔
It seems this drug appears to reduce / damp down that process - in tests so far, early days yet. They are testing it because the chinese reported some good results using an older version of the drug (that has a worse side effect profile).
That's a pretty good description. Sepsis is a slippery term because doctors use it to mean various slightly different things but a more precise term is SIRS - systemic inflammatory response syndrome. Which can happen in Sepsis and also from non-infectious causes like pancreatitis. SIRS is essentially synonymous with cytokine storm.
A good way to think about it is as an overreaction of the immune system to a threat. Analogies are tricky but imagine if someone attacks you with a knife and you defend yourself by setting off a grenade. I mean, it'll stop the would-be knife attacker but you're not gonna come out of it looking pretty. That's SIRS. And the paradox in sepsis is that mortality is most often as a result SIRS. So yeah a drug that dampens the systemic inflammatory response could be really important. Surpress it too much and you leave the body at risk of overwhelming infection however.
Time will tell on this... it's all new.
Beware a false dawn.
Also chloroquine is used to treat other illnesses like lupus, so don't rush out and buy it or there won't be enough for people who need it (and whose conditions it is proven to be effective for).
"Captain, detecting incoming disruptor fire!"
"Nerf the cytokine storm, Mr. Sulu."
It may be helpful, all I know is that there was some French medical nutjob on YouTube about ten days ago vaunting its merits under the title "Coronavirus - Game Over". We can see how that's working out.
It depends on where you are. It is very cheap and over the counter at a pharmacy in Mexico and points south. When I had family members living in various countries, when visiting we'd start it a week in advance and then buy it cheaper there.
"Given the capital’s status as a major global financial hub, Mr Johnson and Rishi Sunak, chancellor, were determined not to further alarm the markets by putting the city into lockdown."
And with our shitty government the test, test, testing isn't going to happen for many a week. Contact tracing? Fuggeddaboudit.
I deny that the second sentence is true, or that it follows from the first. The purpose of a test is to TEST. To determine something of which one is not certain. A negative result does not invalidate that use of the test.
From that link,
This is entirely, completely, totally irresponsible. This prioritizes the money before people. In the eventual inquiry there will be conclusions of terrible. Having disregarded the medical and statistical predictions. So wrong. So bad.
You took that statement out of context. Go to the results: