AFZ, clearly a cross post and clearly you understand our policy. Even registered medical practitioners only post here as Shipmates and their opinions must not be taken as authoritative professional advice.
In other news, the purchasing frenzy is getting increasingly bizarre. Yesterday I saw a shopper looking aghast at the empty TP shelves, moving on to the adjacent kleenex shelves (looking equally unhappy at their emptiness) before finally moving along and FILLING the cart with Kitchen Roll. Why so much?! I can understand people using anything in an emergency, but to commit to weeks of sandpapering your fundament seems beyond desperation.
Not to mention that you need to bin kitchen roll, as you can't flush it. Hoping the bin men are forgiving.
I can understand people using anything in an emergency, but to commit to weeks of sandpapering your fundament seems beyond desperation.
Ah, there's an idea. I'm going to lay in supplies of paint tomorrow as it seems my job might have disappeared for now, and I could do with something useful to do it the meantime. So extra sandpaper for 'emergencies'...it has potential...
In other news, the purchasing frenzy is getting increasingly bizarre. Yesterday I saw a shopper looking aghast at the empty TP shelves, moving on to the adjacent kleenex shelves (looking equally unhappy at their emptiness) before finally moving along and FILLING the cart with Kitchen Roll. Why so much?! I can understand people using anything in an emergency, but to commit to weeks of sandpapering your fundament seems beyond desperation.
Not to mention that you need to bin kitchen roll, as you can't flush it. Hoping the bin men are forgiving.
Ditto for tissues. They don't biodegrade, they block the sewers and the filters at the sewage farms.
A good point: while we are to practice social distancing, we need to continue emotional contact.
Last night, wife and I got a series of texts from our friend in Germany expressing concern for us (we are fine). And she sent pictures of her daughter and nephew.
In other news, the purchasing frenzy is getting increasingly bizarre. Yesterday I saw a shopper looking aghast at the empty TP shelves, moving on to the adjacent kleenex shelves (looking equally unhappy at their emptiness) before finally moving along and FILLING the cart with Kitchen Roll. Why so much?! I can understand people using anything in an emergency, but to commit to weeks of sandpapering your fundament seems beyond desperation.
Not to mention that you need to bin kitchen roll, as you can't flush it. Hoping the bin men are forgiving.
Ditto for tissues. They don't biodegrade, they block the sewers and the filters at the sewage farms.
I think a lot of people probably DON'T know that.
I have a solid-fuel range, so can burn soiled tissues/kitchen roll/cabbage leaves, if I run out of loo roll. Yes, I know I'm probably adding to carbon emissions, but anyone wishing to get rid of such soiled items (and who hasn't got another easy way of disposing of them e.g. via the friendly bin-men) could light a little bonfire in the back yard...
Interesting re stove. Such things are illegal here for many years. You can burn firewood in a fireplace but not garbage nor refuse.
Re BMJ. Perhaps AFZ, validity isn't their thing? 4 patients is to take with a grain of the smallest diameter salt. It suggests nil, and ibuprofen is hardly representative of all NSAIDs. Some info in the hands of those who cannot appraise the quality of evidence leads to awful things, like the opiod crisis.
Plumbers are going to have a field day with all the non-appropriate flushing, but will they be advised not to enter the premises of anyon self-isolating? Scenario for an un-holy mess, methinks.
We were just told in 24 hours the whole county is to remain in our homes. Some are able to continue working, looks like it is a good thing that plumbers are on the list.
A friend (and all his comrades) from Germany who is volunteering at a public hospital here has been ordered home by the German government. It is a year of National Service and he was doing it here (not in Germany).
I think there must be a lot of wonderful young people on similar programmes all over the world whose term of volunteer service has been shortened. I am sad for them. They will go back to a "home" where they are Just Another One and will not feel (or be seen as) needed and special. Which will be quite an adjustment on top of everything else. Apart from being missed in the work they have been doing
My partner and I are already feeling very isolated due to the corona virus. All our activities have been curtailed. Church is cancelled. There are no sporting activities. None of the organisations in which we participate are allowed to continue. Even the voluntary activities are forbidden as it puts people at risk. I'm particularly concerned about my partner who has a history of severe depression which seems to be flaring up again as a reaction to this isolation. How are others coping? We can all read books and watch tv, but that isn't the same as interacting with people. I fear for the mental health of many people as a result of all the restrictions.
Everything has stopped here. My puppy classes, art class, Pilates, German class, church activities, contact the elderly volunteering. Everything.
It feels very odd.
Mr Boogs is in Germany supporting my son who is on the front line in his hospital. He has a young baby so Mr Boogs is cooking and generally caring for them all.
So I’m on my own.
I am working out a routine.
I’m walking the dogs, gardening, reading, learning German, Skyping friends and relatives, decluttering and watching TV from 8pm. I’m rationing my news consumption - it doesn’t help.
I used to do patchwork - I might take it up again. 🙂
I will shortly be commencing the ongoing battle that is keeping a house tidy with 2 children stuck at home. At least they will have time to clear up their messes.
@rhubarb I think that @Boogie has the right approach - try to have a routine, make the most of electronic communication, think about craft hobbies or learning opportunities. Perhaps learn a language together using apps or online resources? Duolingo feels a bit like a game, which is easy to engage with and they have a bazillion languages - @Boogie may have other tips.
For recreation, if you are with your partner, you have some great interactive opportunities. Have you thought about board games and cards? they can be wonderfully diverting. Another idea: if you are able, it takes only a small space to dance - look up some gentle steps online, and you have wonderful indoor exercise. If your circumstances allow you to get outside for exercise, try to go for a walk everyday. Delight in the possibilities you have with each other.
I realise it’s not going to be easy, but we will all help each other push back the darkness. If it gets really tough, here are Mental Health links and helplines...
FWIW: I've seen articles around the web for parents in your situation, and *possibly* somewhere to talk with each other. Might be worth a little searching.
@rhubarb I think that @Boogie has the right approach - try to have a routine, make the most of electronic communication, think about craft hobbies or learning opportunities. Perhaps learn a language together using apps or online resources? Duolingo feels a bit like a game, which is easy to engage with and they have a bazillion languages - @Boogie may have other tips.
For recreation, if you are with your partner, you have some great interactive opportunities. Have you thought about board games and cards? they can be wonderfully diverting. Another idea: if you are able, it takes only a small space to dance - look up some gentle steps online, and you have wonderful indoor exercise. If your circumstances allow you to get outside for exercise, try to go for a walk everyday. Delight in the possibilities you have with each other.
I realise it’s not going to be easy, but we will all help each other push back the darkness. If it gets really tough, here are Mental Health links and helplines...
I need to follow my own advice, and learn some other languages to be able to find other pages
Thank you. I'm trying to remember to take care of my mental health.
My research work for the moment continues. The clinical work, obviously will continue... but it's a strange place the hospital right now and I worry about being a healthy carrier (rather than actually getting ill)
But feeling the darkness a bit more than normal at the moment.
In other news, some more thinking about where we are at with Covid-19.
I have seen some provisional data that the mortality for patients admitted to ICU with Covid-19 is 30%. I stress that's preliminary but it doesn't matter what the exact figure is for the point I am about the make. I suspect it's about right though.
Three things need to be said here:
1. Obviously 30% is a scary and horrible number. If it's you or someone you love, a 1 in 3 chance of not getting out of the ICU is a horrible thing.
2. If it is 30% that's actually lower than the average ICU mortality.
3. This is the key part: 30% mortality means that 70% of patients admitted to ICU with Covid-19 survive. THIS is why managing the outbreak and preventing hospital services from being overwhelmed is so critical:
Let us take a theoretical 100 people with Covid-19 who need an ICU bed. If we have enough, 70 of them will survive. If there aren't any ICU beds, none of them will survive. So our mortality more than triples.
There will be some that die without even reaching ICU but the vast majority of those who die will be in this group who would get admitted to ICU (if a bed is available). Hence there is a three-fold effect on the mortality based not on how many people need ICU but based on when they need it - i.e. if we can flatten the peak so that the overall numbers are about the same but the demand is much better matched to supply then there is a three-fold effect on the mortality.
This is the kind of thing that very complex mathematical models are being used to work out. To work out how to change spread and peaks of the disease. The models won't be perfect but the concept is simple. I have heard that in parts of Italy the mortality rate is 3-4 times the expected i.e. 10% rather than 2-3%. (Again incomplete data but) this is why social isolation and slowing the spread makes such a difference.
A lot of my thoughts and prayers right now are with adult medical/nursing staff. I haven't done any adult work for a decade and I am a surgeon. I am not in the front line (and probably won't be asked to be - lots of other cross-cover instead probably) but to those that are, there is a significant trauma to seeing patients who we could save not being savable. It's a horrible feeling and when multiplied on a big scale has significant psychological effects.
Yes - that’s my son. He’s on a general medical ward with mainly elderly patients, a lot with dementia. They’ve already had to test and isolate several patients. Luckily they have plenty of equipment and the highest grade masks and visors.
He’s keeping positive ‘tho his partner is worried for him. I’m not too anxious as they are young and extremely fit.
People in some rural areas will struggle with food. When we are in Norfolk, there is one shop 4 miles away. If they run out of something, you have to drive quite a distance. Obvious solution is official rationing.
Thankfully I'm in a local mums FB group and we've shared a few ideas. The local libraries have announced they're closing from Friday so we have just been and maxed out Dragonlet 2's library card, including some books aimed at Dragonlet 1 (relating to school topic stuff and everything they had at his phonics level in case they don't go back in a hurry and we've exhausted the school ones).
The buzz through our local challenge poverty FB group is that although the local libraries will be closed, some library staff will be in. Given that libraries are a life line for struggling families we've queried whether staff could discretely (and, of course, safely) arrange for books to be exchanged - if parents phone ahead and request particular books (so, no browsing among the stacks) with absolute minimal contact. We're not expecting this to be a positive reply, but you never know ...
At this rate my home should have no clutter left.....
I'm going down the decorators shop this afternoon to lay a load of paint in. As I often say to the kids, being bored is a really useful way of making things you don't want to do, seem a bit more worth doing...
I have heard why people buy loo roll: it is to use to dry their hands, apparently! Haven’t they heard of towels?
Really heartening to have offers of help pouring in here, long before I have any requests for assistance, of course. Just got off the phone with one woman who will do guerrilla baking, and leave it on doorsteps of those who are socially distancing, if I give her a few hints about there to go! Nice gesture, even if the person concerned is not in actual need.
I work in payroll and my employer is encouraging working from home. Of course, the lower you are in the hierarchy, the less likely it is that your work can be done from home, so I'll be in my cube farm processing paper for the foreseeable future. Employees working from home still expect to get paid; employees who are laid off need their ROEs.
The unfortunate thing is that any measures taken today won't have results for at least two weeks. Anyone diagnosed with COVID-19 in the next fourteen days was almost certainly exposed before today, so there's a bit of a lag between implementing a measure (like social distancing or self-isolation) and seeing any effect on number of cases.
Social distancing seemed a joke when I went in the supermarket. People were close together, and in queues jammed. There were groups of people walking around laughing and joking, including staff; as far as I could see, nobody really believed there was an emergency. I suppose if you are young, there isn't.
A woman my wife knows went round three local chemists and bought one packet of paracetamol at each. Then sge, her husband and adult daughter went to the supermarket, which is ratioing toilet rolls (2 per person), each took a separate trolley, and each bought their allowance of soo paper. She thought this a smart move, and told my wife, who made some non-committal remark.
Your irrational panic buying is interfering with my precautionary stockpiling!
Yes, it's an irregular verb isn't it?
I precautionarily stockpile You panic buy He/she is a selfish arsehole hoarding what everyone else needs...
The real problem is that there are not real shortages but panic buying creates them. We have enough nappies for both Zoglets at present but none are available for our weekly Tesco order so I'm dropping in now to pick some up...
As a practical point we built up our No Deal Brexit stockpile over several weeks. We would have done the same here had we known we needed to. Once again I am guilty of forgetting how daft British people can be.
We are talking about a culture which buys three weeks' shopping in the week before Christmas because the shops will be shut for one whole day, at a time when there are already many calls on the finances.
The thing to remember is that in a few more days the supply chains will have restocked the shelves, and all the idiots who panic bought a year's supply won't be buying any more. By early next week there will be more than enough for the rest of us again.
Has anyone else noticed, and find it somewhat suspicious, that Russia appears to have next to no cases? (2 I believe)
Lots of people have noticed that, as well as a suspicious increase in diagnoses of (and deaths attributed to) "pneumonia".
Matthew Luxmoore
I was washing my hands in a public toilet in Moscow when a middle-aged security guard exited a cubicle and began washing his. “We’ll all fucking die from this virus, blyat,” he said. “Only Putin will survive blyat.”
Little panic in Russia’s capital, but fatalism is alive & well
Just received email from my boss. They are having us "work from home" as much as is possible for librarians and library workers, which means we're supposed to start thinking and planning for various upcoming events.
I have heard why people buy loo roll: it is to use to dry their hands, apparently! Haven’t they heard of towels?
The staff of my local supermarket were mystified by the many customers who, seeing nothing but empty shelves where they'd expected loo rolls, went to buy large quantities of cat-litter
Comments
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host.
Ah, there's an idea. I'm going to lay in supplies of paint tomorrow as it seems my job might have disappeared for now, and I could do with something useful to do it the meantime. So extra sandpaper for 'emergencies'...it has potential...
The updated NHS advice is at the bottom of the page here (not on this page which will usually be the first one that people come to).
Ditto for tissues. They don't biodegrade, they block the sewers and the filters at the sewage farms.
I think a lot of people probably DON'T know that.
Last night, wife and I got a series of texts from our friend in Germany expressing concern for us (we are fine). And she sent pictures of her daughter and nephew.
I have a solid-fuel range, so can burn soiled tissues/kitchen roll/cabbage leaves, if I run out of loo roll. Yes, I know I'm probably adding to carbon emissions, but anyone wishing to get rid of such soiled items (and who hasn't got another easy way of disposing of them e.g. via the friendly bin-men) could light a little bonfire in the back yard...
Re BMJ. Perhaps AFZ, validity isn't their thing? 4 patients is to take with a grain of the smallest diameter salt. It suggests nil, and ibuprofen is hardly representative of all NSAIDs. Some info in the hands of those who cannot appraise the quality of evidence leads to awful things, like the opiod crisis.
I think there must be a lot of wonderful young people on similar programmes all over the world whose term of volunteer service has been shortened. I am sad for them. They will go back to a "home" where they are Just Another One and will not feel (or be seen as) needed and special. Which will be quite an adjustment on top of everything else. Apart from being missed in the work they have been doing
It feels very odd.
Mr Boogs is in Germany supporting my son who is on the front line in his hospital. He has a young baby so Mr Boogs is cooking and generally caring for them all.
So I’m on my own.
I am working out a routine.
I’m walking the dogs, gardening, reading, learning German, Skyping friends and relatives, decluttering and watching TV from 8pm. I’m rationing my news consumption - it doesn’t help.
I used to do patchwork - I might take it up again. 🙂
For recreation, if you are with your partner, you have some great interactive opportunities. Have you thought about board games and cards? they can be wonderfully diverting. Another idea: if you are able, it takes only a small space to dance - look up some gentle steps online, and you have wonderful indoor exercise. If your circumstances allow you to get outside for exercise, try to go for a walk everyday. Delight in the possibilities you have with each other.
I realise it’s not going to be easy, but we will all help each other push back the darkness. If it gets really tough, here are Mental Health links and helplines...
in the UK
in Australia
in New Zealand
in the USA
in Canada
I need to follow my own advice, and learn some other languages to be able to find other pages
FWIW: I've seen articles around the web for parents in your situation, and *possibly* somewhere to talk with each other. Might be worth a little searching.
YMMV.
Thank you. I'm trying to remember to take care of my mental health.
My research work for the moment continues. The clinical work, obviously will continue... but it's a strange place the hospital right now and I worry about being a healthy carrier (rather than actually getting ill)
But feeling the darkness a bit more than normal at the moment.
In other news, some more thinking about where we are at with Covid-19.
I have seen some provisional data that the mortality for patients admitted to ICU with Covid-19 is 30%. I stress that's preliminary but it doesn't matter what the exact figure is for the point I am about the make. I suspect it's about right though.
Three things need to be said here:
1. Obviously 30% is a scary and horrible number. If it's you or someone you love, a 1 in 3 chance of not getting out of the ICU is a horrible thing.
2. If it is 30% that's actually lower than the average ICU mortality.
3. This is the key part: 30% mortality means that 70% of patients admitted to ICU with Covid-19 survive. THIS is why managing the outbreak and preventing hospital services from being overwhelmed is so critical:
Let us take a theoretical 100 people with Covid-19 who need an ICU bed. If we have enough, 70 of them will survive. If there aren't any ICU beds, none of them will survive. So our mortality more than triples.
There will be some that die without even reaching ICU but the vast majority of those who die will be in this group who would get admitted to ICU (if a bed is available). Hence there is a three-fold effect on the mortality based not on how many people need ICU but based on when they need it - i.e. if we can flatten the peak so that the overall numbers are about the same but the demand is much better matched to supply then there is a three-fold effect on the mortality.
This is the kind of thing that very complex mathematical models are being used to work out. To work out how to change spread and peaks of the disease. The models won't be perfect but the concept is simple. I have heard that in parts of Italy the mortality rate is 3-4 times the expected i.e. 10% rather than 2-3%. (Again incomplete data but) this is why social isolation and slowing the spread makes such a difference.
A lot of my thoughts and prayers right now are with adult medical/nursing staff. I haven't done any adult work for a decade and I am a surgeon. I am not in the front line (and probably won't be asked to be - lots of other cross-cover instead probably) but to those that are, there is a significant trauma to seeing patients who we could save not being savable. It's a horrible feeling and when multiplied on a big scale has significant psychological effects.
AFZ
He’s keeping positive ‘tho his partner is worried for him. I’m not too anxious as they are young and extremely fit.
Really heartening to have offers of help pouring in here, long before I have any requests for assistance, of course. Just got off the phone with one woman who will do guerrilla baking, and leave it on doorsteps of those who are socially distancing, if I give her a few hints about there to go! Nice gesture, even if the person concerned is not in actual need.
Presumably the worry is that towels may harbour germs.... If you use loo roll and throw it away, no cross contamination, at least from that.
My upstairs neighbor suggested leaves. OK, I guess, so long as they aren't poison ivy leaves.
This is actually a real issue; teatowels even more so.
Use the toilet then have a shower immediately after.
Or holly
Yes, it's an irregular verb isn't it?
I precautionarily stockpile
You panic buy
He/she is a selfish arsehole hoarding what everyone else needs...
The real problem is that there are not real shortages but panic buying creates them. We have enough nappies for both Zoglets at present but none are available for our weekly Tesco order so I'm dropping in now to pick some up...
As a practical point we built up our No Deal Brexit stockpile over several weeks. We would have done the same here had we known we needed to. Once again I am guilty of forgetting how daft British people can be.
AFZ
Lots of people have noticed that, as well as a suspicious increase in diagnoses of (and deaths attributed to) "pneumonia".
https://youtu.be/2rWHZUOGKV4
And also that Russia might believe the virus is a Western/US bioweapon
Fixed quoting code. BroJames Purgatory Host
As does Ahmadinejad and my boss.
The staff of my local supermarket were mystified by the many customers who, seeing nothing but empty shelves where they'd expected loo rolls, went to buy large quantities of cat-litter