Not a good time for the Conservative government in the UK

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  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    I'm hearing that senior people in Government have been talking about 14th November as an election date. Which is pretty much as late as it could be reasonably held, with only upto a couple of weeks later even remotely possible (assuming voters like an election when they're thinking about Christmas)
  • O please, no...not another year of the Gobshites...
    :scream:
  • I'm hearing that senior people in Government have been talking about 14th November as an election date. Which is pretty much as late as it could be reasonably held, with only upto a couple of weeks later even remotely possible (assuming voters like an election when they're thinking about Christmas)

    in 2019 the 12th December was fine for the Conservatives. The 12 December 2024 is also a Thursday.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    I'm hearing that senior people in Government have been talking about 14th November as an election date. Which is pretty much as late as it could be reasonably held, with only upto a couple of weeks later even remotely possible (assuming voters like an election when they're thinking about Christmas)

    in 2019 the 12th December was fine for the Conservatives. The 12 December 2024 is also a Thursday.

    The problem is that it is taking a risk on the government’s part. The chances of them making up ground next year are slim. Possible but slim. It is perhaps better to have a spring election to lose the least amount of seats. Also the later in the year the more prevalent the pressure on the NHS will be. Choices between heating and eating will be more to the fore. According to experts the economy will not have improved enough to make a difference. So altogether early is better
  • There's an opinion piece in today's Guardian which explores this theme:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/31/eve-of-election-year-rishi-sunak-faces-dilemma
  • There's an opinion piece in today's Guardian which explores this theme:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/31/eve-of-election-year-rishi-sunak-faces-dilemma

    Love the headline.
  • Perhaps they are hoping that by November, anyone who isn't planning to vote for them will be too busy wondering where their next meal is coming from to vote. Or it could be a double bluff to stop people speculating about a May election.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    It could be they expect to lose and want the extra time on their current salaries and to set up post parliament paying gigs.
  • It could be they expect to lose and want the extra time on their current salaries and to set up post parliament paying gigs.

    O! how cynical ! Is Outrage! (Is probably true...)
  • CameronCameron Shipmate
    edited December 2023
    Mr Sunak’s desperation is becoming clear…

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/31/dominic-cummings-held-secret-election-talks-with-rishi-sunak

    My favourite part of the report is “Other Tory MPs have commented in WhatsApp groups…”

    You would think they would learn, although it is possible a spate of damaged and locked phones could follow…
  • O come, come. Surely you know by now that tory MPs never learn? I doubt, even if they were all lumped together, that their brain power would equal that of a single pot plant.

    They are all Spawn of Azathoth, the blind idiot god bubbling and blaspheming at the centre of Infinity...

    Actually, that description of Azathoth fits Dom the Cum rather well.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Now, now, BF, it isn't his fault he needs his eyes tested ... :mrgreen:
  • Well, he should have gone to Specsavers...
  • Well, he should have gone to Specsavers...

    Or Barnard Castle.
  • Yes. It's a pity he didn't stay there (nota bene: I bear no ill-will towards the people of that delightful town...).
  • Hugal wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I'm hearing that senior people in Government have been talking about 14th November as an election date. Which is pretty much as late as it could be reasonably held, with only upto a couple of weeks later even remotely possible (assuming voters like an election when they're thinking about Christmas)

    in 2019 the 12th December was fine for the Conservatives. The 12 December 2024 is also a Thursday.

    The problem is that it is taking a risk on the government’s part. The chances of them making up ground next year are slim. Possible but slim. It is perhaps better to have a spring election to lose the least amount of seats. Also the later in the year the more prevalent the pressure on the NHS will be. Choices between heating and eating will be more to the fore. According to experts the economy will not have improved enough to make a difference. So altogether early is better
    Early is not better if you are miles behind in the polls.


  • Telford wrote: »
    Hugal wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I'm hearing that senior people in Government have been talking about 14th November as an election date. Which is pretty much as late as it could be reasonably held, with only upto a couple of weeks later even remotely possible (assuming voters like an election when they're thinking about Christmas)

    in 2019 the 12th December was fine for the Conservatives. The 12 December 2024 is also a Thursday.

    The problem is that it is taking a risk on the government’s part. The chances of them making up ground next year are slim. Possible but slim. It is perhaps better to have a spring election to lose the least amount of seats. Also the later in the year the more prevalent the pressure on the NHS will be. Choices between heating and eating will be more to the fore. According to experts the economy will not have improved enough to make a difference. So altogether early is better
    Early is not better if you are miles behind in the polls.

    Telford wrote: »
    Hugal wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I'm hearing that senior people in Government have been talking about 14th November as an election date. Which is pretty much as late as it could be reasonably held, with only upto a couple of weeks later even remotely possible (assuming voters like an election when they're thinking about Christmas)

    in 2019 the 12th December was fine for the Conservatives. The 12 December 2024 is also a Thursday.

    The problem is that it is taking a risk on the government’s part. The chances of them making up ground next year are slim. Possible but slim. It is perhaps better to have a spring election to lose the least amount of seats. Also the later in the year the more prevalent the pressure on the NHS will be. Choices between heating and eating will be more to the fore. According to experts the economy will not have improved enough to make a difference. So altogether early is better
    Early is not better if you are miles behind in the polls.


    Not necessarily. Early is better if things are going to get worse, the longer you wait...
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host

    Telford wrote: »
    Hugal wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I'm hearing that senior people in Government have been talking about 14th November as an election date. Which is pretty much as late as it could be reasonably held, with only upto a couple of weeks later even remotely possible (assuming voters like an election when they're thinking about Christmas)

    in 2019 the 12th December was fine for the Conservatives. The 12 December 2024 is also a Thursday.

    The problem is that it is taking a risk on the government’s part. The chances of them making up ground next year are slim. Possible but slim. It is perhaps better to have a spring election to lose the least amount of seats. Also the later in the year the more prevalent the pressure on the NHS will be. Choices between heating and eating will be more to the fore. According to experts the economy will not have improved enough to make a difference. So altogether early is better
    Early is not better if you are miles behind in the polls.


    I suppose it's a matter of judgement - a bad loss soon or a worse loss later.
  • Scylla and Charybdis come to mind...
  • Telford wrote: »
    Hugal wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I'm hearing that senior people in Government have been talking about 14th November as an election date. Which is pretty much as late as it could be reasonably held, with only upto a couple of weeks later even remotely possible (assuming voters like an election when they're thinking about Christmas)

    in 2019 the 12th December was fine for the Conservatives. The 12 December 2024 is also a Thursday.

    The problem is that it is taking a risk on the government’s part. The chances of them making up ground next year are slim. Possible but slim. It is perhaps better to have a spring election to lose the least amount of seats. Also the later in the year the more prevalent the pressure on the NHS will be. Choices between heating and eating will be more to the fore. According to experts the economy will not have improved enough to make a difference. So altogether early is better
    Early is not better if you are miles behind in the polls.

    Telford wrote: »
    Hugal wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I'm hearing that senior people in Government have been talking about 14th November as an election date. Which is pretty much as late as it could be reasonably held, with only upto a couple of weeks later even remotely possible (assuming voters like an election when they're thinking about Christmas)

    in 2019 the 12th December was fine for the Conservatives. The 12 December 2024 is also a Thursday.

    The problem is that it is taking a risk on the government’s part. The chances of them making up ground next year are slim. Possible but slim. It is perhaps better to have a spring election to lose the least amount of seats. Also the later in the year the more prevalent the pressure on the NHS will be. Choices between heating and eating will be more to the fore. According to experts the economy will not have improved enough to make a difference. So altogether early is better
    Early is not better if you are miles behind in the polls.


    Not necessarily. Early is better if things are going to get worse, the longer you wait...
    But getting better or worse is just guesswork
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited December 2023
    Cameron wrote: »
    My favourite part of the report is “Other Tory MPs have commented in WhatsApp groups…”

    You would think they would learn, although it is possible a spate of damaged and locked phones could follow…

    One thing to note is that in relative terms they have been remarkably disciplined about leaks - given the volume of possible whatsapps the number of times screenshots have been leaked via the press is relatively low. I assume the sense of mutual assured destruction (for both the MPs and journalists involved) ensures a certain omerta.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Hugal wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I'm hearing that senior people in Government have been talking about 14th November as an election date. Which is pretty much as late as it could be reasonably held, with only upto a couple of weeks later even remotely possible (assuming voters like an election when they're thinking about Christmas)

    in 2019 the 12th December was fine for the Conservatives. The 12 December 2024 is also a Thursday.

    The problem is that it is taking a risk on the government’s part. The chances of them making up ground next year are slim. Possible but slim. It is perhaps better to have a spring election to lose the least amount of seats. Also the later in the year the more prevalent the pressure on the NHS will be. Choices between heating and eating will be more to the fore. According to experts the economy will not have improved enough to make a difference. So altogether early is better
    Early is not better if you are miles behind in the polls.

    Telford wrote: »
    Hugal wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I'm hearing that senior people in Government have been talking about 14th November as an election date. Which is pretty much as late as it could be reasonably held, with only upto a couple of weeks later even remotely possible (assuming voters like an election when they're thinking about Christmas)

    in 2019 the 12th December was fine for the Conservatives. The 12 December 2024 is also a Thursday.

    The problem is that it is taking a risk on the government’s part. The chances of them making up ground next year are slim. Possible but slim. It is perhaps better to have a spring election to lose the least amount of seats. Also the later in the year the more prevalent the pressure on the NHS will be. Choices between heating and eating will be more to the fore. According to experts the economy will not have improved enough to make a difference. So altogether early is better
    Early is not better if you are miles behind in the polls.


    Not necessarily. Early is better if things are going to get worse, the longer you wait...
    But getting better or worse is just guesswork

    Yes so they have to play the odds. If they wait things could get worse. If they go early they only lose by that number. As I said and you don’t seem to take note of, the later the election the colder it gets. The choice between heating and eating will be more obvious. The cost of fuel will sting. It is still going up just slower than before. The colder months bring more strain in the NHS. The cost of living will still be going up.
    If we have a good spring/summer the number of people arriving by boats will go up.
    You need to take all this into account
  • Yes, and I think FWIW that we are more likely to have a May election than one in the autumn/early winter.

    It is all guesswork, of course, but educated guesses take into account the empirical evidence we already have.
  • Meanwhile, in Looking-Glass England, where words mean what the Gobshites in Government want them to mean, it appears that the immigration application backlog has been cleared (O frabjous day! Calloo! Callay!) - or has it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/02/james-cleverly-uk-asylum-backlog

    Even NumberTen (presumably Larry The Cat) doesn't seem to go along with Jimmy *Date Rape Is A Joke* Dimly's assessment.

    General Election NOW!!

  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Aye, their definition of "cleared" seems to be "someone has opened the file at least once". With 35,000 or so files closed without a decision being made (so, neither moved from category of "asylum seeker" to "refugee" or sent home).

    And, in the time it's taken them to reach a decision on about 60,000 cases there have been almost 100,000 entering the system without a decision being reached.
  • There seem to be quite a few *illegal* people who have somehow been lost sight of - but, as they're *illegal*, presumably that doesn't matter...

    With umpteen thousand *non-persons* apparently eligible for transportation to Rwanda (I saw the figure somewhere in the Noos today, or yesterday), it rather begs the question as to how many more million £££ we're going to have to put in Mr Kagame's pocket in order for him to accommodate them comfortably in his nice safe holiday resorts.
  • O look - another headache for poor Sushi Rinak and his Government of Integrity:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/06/pm-urged-to-suspend-whip-from-pensions-minister-accused-of-misusing-taxpayer-funds

    In all fairness, these are only allegations, and not proven, but Wishi-Washi will have to do something about them.

  • O look - another headache for poor Sushi Rinak and his Government of Integrity:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/06/pm-urged-to-suspend-whip-from-pensions-minister-accused-of-misusing-taxpayer-funds

    In all fairness, these are only allegations, and not proven, but Wishi-Washi will have to do something about them.

    Given the Horizon scandal, which is also based on postmasters misappropriating taxpayers money, being so much in peoples minds, I think he has to take some action.

    Because it does look like taking tax money is only acceptable if you are already wealthy and don't need it.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    The Horizon scandal is not about postmasters misappropriating taxpayers' money.
    It is about the Post Office falsely accusing postmasters of misappropriating taxpayers' money even after they knew that the fault was in the new software.
    The reason it is a scandal is that the Post Office was letting innocent people go to prison even after it knew they were innocent.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    The postmasters haven't even had taxpayers money through Legal Aid for the legal fight to clear their names. Unlike, say, Boris Johnson who got more than quarter of a million of taxpayers money to fund legal challenges in relation to parties at No 10.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    The COVID enquiry are releasing their first trench of results this summer. That is not going to be good news for Rishi. If I were him I would call a May election to avoid this, it could be damaging
  • The reports so far have been bad enough - although possibly not telling us anything we didn't already know or suspect - so any further revelations anent the government's greed and general uselessness certainly won't help their cause.

    O dear. What a shame...
  • Dafyd wrote: »
    The Horizon scandal is not about postmasters misappropriating taxpayers' money.
    It is about the Post Office falsely accusing postmasters of misappropriating taxpayers' money even after they knew that the fault was in the new software.
    The reason it is a scandal is that the Post Office was letting innocent people go to prison even after it knew they were innocent.

    Apologies - I intended to say it was about accusations of sub-postmasters misapproriating taxpayers money.

    I have discussed this a lot elsewhere, and had that accusation in my mind.

    It is about corruption and mismanagement, with blame being passed downwards not upwards.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    edited January 2024
    One thing that surprises me is the lack of focus on Fujitsu who provided the flawed Horizon system, and continually assured their Post Office client that the problem must be the postmasters because it couldn’t be Horizon.
  • This is the front-page splash on today's "i" (which my wife is now reading): https://inews.co.uk/news/post-office-fujitsu-contract-renewed-2842697
  • This issue is ongoing, of course, but it appears that Vennells is going to hand back her CBE, and that Fujitsu may be in trouble. A snip from today's Guardian live blog:

    Downing Street has hinted that Fujitsu’s role in the Post Office Horizon scandal (it provided the flawed IT) may stop it getting or keeping other government contracts.
  • One would like to think of these as justice of a sort, but I suspect that cheap vote-winning is more the flavour of the day.
  • Well, justice may indeed be served, at long last (and too late in many cases :disappointed: ), but I don't doubt that the unseemly haste being displayed by the gobshites ministers has something to do with vote-winning...
  • The haste is a bit belated. This misccarriage of justice has been apparent for years.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    The haste is a bit belated. This misccarriage of justice has been apparent for years.

    Indeed it has, and no doubt there are quite a few more skeletons waiting and ready to emerge from cupboards...

    Alas! probably not sufficient to bring this government down, though.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    The haste is a bit belated. This misccarriage of justice has been apparent for years.

    Indeed it has, and no doubt there are quite a few more skeletons waiting and ready to emerge from cupboards...

    Alas! probably not sufficient to bring this government down, though.

    Why should it do? It's all Ed Davey's fault. When it isn't Keir Starmer's. Nothing is ever a Tory's fault.
  • Sighthound wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    The haste is a bit belated. This misccarriage of justice has been apparent for years.

    Indeed it has, and no doubt there are quite a few more skeletons waiting and ready to emerge from cupboards...

    Alas! probably not sufficient to bring this government down, though.

    Why should it do? It's all Ed Davey's fault. When it isn't Keir Starmer's. Nothing is ever a Tory's fault.

    O silly Me! I had forgot that...I must go and sit immediately on the Doorstep of Punishment...

    Pass the Sackcloth and Ashes, please...
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Sighthound wrote: »
    Nothing is ever a Tory's fault.
    Or if it is the Tory is really a socialist.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    Apparently the Torygraph were trying to pin the Horizon scandal on Kier Starmer for reals this morning (or so I heard on Radio 4).
  • Apparently the Torygraph were trying to pin the Horizon scandal on Kier Starmer for reals this morning (or so I heard on Radio 4).

    No doubt they have a *Damning Six-Page Dossier* on him, as the Daily Arsewipe Wail had anent the Beergate Scandal...
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    The haste is a bit belated. This misccarriage of justice has been apparent for years.

    Indeed it has, and no doubt there are quite a few more skeletons waiting and ready to emerge from cupboards...

    Alas! probably not sufficient to bring this government down, though.

    James O'Brien had on his show a Private Eye journalist - Richard Brooks - who was very much at the vanguard of bringing thus horrendousness to light. The last question James asked is what next are you bringing to us. He mentioned a couple of things but one is definitely right up there:
    Scammers have been using ID theft to claim tax rebates that aren't allowed (because generally it is possible to twist figures in the short term) and then Inland Revenue has been chasing the victims of the ID theft and forcing them to repay the money fraduantly claimed...

    That stinks.

    AFZ
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Apparently the Torygraph were trying to pin the Horizon scandal on Kier Starmer for reals this morning (or so I heard on Radio 4).

    No doubt they have a *Damning Six-Page Dossier* on him, as the Daily Arsewipe Wail had anent the Beergate Scandal...

    Given that I've written two pages of bullet points, single spaced, to get £300 out of a fridge freezer supplier I can well believe you can pad bugger all out to 6 pages.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 2024
    Eirenist wrote: »
    The haste is a bit belated. This misccarriage of justice has been apparent for years.

    Indeed it has, and no doubt there are quite a few more skeletons waiting and ready to emerge from cupboards...

    Alas! probably not sufficient to bring this government down, though.

    James O'Brien had on his show a Private Eye journalist - Richard Brooks - who was very much at the vanguard of bringing thus horrendousness to light. The last question James asked is what next are you bringing to us. He mentioned a couple of things but one is definitely right up there:
    Scammers have been using ID theft to claim tax rebates that aren't allowed (because generally it is possible to twist figures in the short term) and then Inland Revenue has been chasing the victims of the ID theft and forcing them to repay the money fraduantly claimed...

    That stinks.

    AFZ

    It all stinks. The trademark of this government is a vile and noxious stench.
    Apparently the Torygraph were trying to pin the Horizon scandal on Kier Starmer for reals this morning (or so I heard on Radio 4).

    No doubt they have a *Damning Six-Page Dossier* on him, as the Daily Arsewipe Wail had anent the Beergate Scandal...

    Given that I've written two pages of bullet points, single spaced, to get £300 out of a fridge freezer supplier I can well believe you can pad bugger all out to 6 pages.

    Just so.
    :wink:

    Given the nature of the Daily Shitpaper, I'm sure they were BIG pages, with lots of Big Words (of one or two syllables at the most) and Damning Pictures.
  • Apparently the Torygraph were trying to pin the Horizon scandal on Kier Starmer for reals this morning (or so I heard on Radio 4).
    The only thing he can be criticised for is a failure to act when it was evident that the Post were prosecuting dozens of people who were probably innocent. As the DPP he could have stopped their private prosecutions

  • Telford wrote: »
    Apparently the Torygraph were trying to pin the Horizon scandal on Kier Starmer for reals this morning (or so I heard on Radio 4).
    The only thing he can be criticised for is a failure to act when it was evident that the Post were prosecuting dozens of people who were probably innocent. As the DPP he could have stopped their private prosecutions

    If this is the case he will never get my vote. Where is Screaming Lord Such when you need him?
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